2015 PPV (Body on frame SUV) Comparison

[IMHO]

Only 5k deposit required?

I got the ~5th Everest delivery in Thailand with a 5K deposit

Yes, it seems odd, but that's still considered enough 'hurt money' to get into the queue...

[IMHO]

The new Pajero 4WD; A/T; diesel is B1,399,000 until the end of Sept. It will then go up to B1.45m.

The fuel consumption is 17% better.

17% better than what? The old Pajero? Or better than the best other comparable model? I prefer to see any stats shown measured and compared to the best in class as otherwise how do I know if it's good? Could be 17% better than the last Pajero but that could mean it might be below average.

Sorry but I'm an accountant not a car expert so I wouldn't know if 17% better is good, bad or indifferent without comparisons.

It will be compared to the top-spec outgoing PJS... which did:

Highway: 11.9 KM/L

Urban: 8.2 KM/L

Combined: 10.2 KM/L

[stament]

How about compared to the others do we have that data as your very useful tables didn't show that. Looked at the Toyota website and nearly everything is in English but the Mitsubishi one is awful in comparison. Honda one for that matter not great either.

[stament]

Where do you stand if promised a car by x date and you give a deposit? Can you write down on the form that if delivery doesn't happen by said date then full refund applicable? Guessing if you do and they sign it then it's binding? I'm only asking because if they say the wait is say one month and it end us being say two months then that might not be acceptable to me and perhaps a different car then becomes a better option.

[IMHO]

Where do you stand if promised a car by x date and you give a deposit? Can you write down on the form that if delivery doesn't happen by said date then full refund applicable? Guessing if you do and they sign it then it's binding? I'm only asking because if they say the wait is say one month and it end us being say two months then that might not be acceptable to me and perhaps a different car then becomes a better option.

I've never seen an official booking form that even has a place to write in the delivery date.

[fang37]

Where do you stand if promised a car by x date and you give a deposit? Can you write down on the form that if delivery doesn't happen by said date then full refund applicable? Guessing if you do and they sign it then it's binding? I'm only asking because if they say the wait is say one month and it end us being say two months then that might not be acceptable to me and perhaps a different car then becomes a better option.

If they pull that one, I am out. Put down B5k.

Now, it is up to them. Deliver in a "reasonable time" or bye.

[IMHO]

How about compared to the others do we have that data as your very useful tables didn't show that. Looked at the Toyota website and nearly everything is in English but the Mitsubishi one is awful in comparison. Honda one for that matter not great either.

As I think I already noted, there is no official FE test data for the new Fortuner or Pajero Sport, yet.

The only one of the new PPV's with official tests is the Everest:

Highway: 14.3 KM/L

Urban: 8.9 KM/L

Combined: 11.8 KM/L

[IMHO]

Where do you stand if promised a car by x date and you give a deposit? Can you write down on the form that if delivery doesn't happen by said date then full refund applicable? Guessing if you do and they sign it then it's binding? I'm only asking because if they say the wait is say one month and it end us being say two months then that might not be acceptable to me and perhaps a different car then becomes a better option.

If they pull that one, I am out. Put down B5k.

Now, it is up to them. Deliver in a "reasonable time" or bye.

Let's say you don't get your new PJS by the end of November... what's your next move?

[fang37]

Where do you stand if promised a car by x date and you give a deposit? Can you write down on the form that if delivery doesn't happen by said date then full refund applicable? Guessing if you do and they sign it then it's binding? I'm only asking because if they say the wait is say one month and it end us being say two months then that might not be acceptable to me and perhaps a different car then becomes a better option.

If they pull that one, I am out. Put down B5k.

Now, it is up to them. Deliver in a "reasonable time" or bye.

Let's say you don't get your new PJS by the end of November... what's your next move?

I will wait until November.

The SUV industry is competitive. I predict that they will avoid the disappointment of customers at all costs.

[IMHO]

Let's say you don't get your new PJS by the end of November... what's your next move?

I will wait until November.

The SUV industry is competitive. I predict that they will avoid the disappointment of customers at all costs.

Sure, of course.. and if you have had the factory tell you a delivery month, chances are that's what will happen. But if it doesn't, you're going to be jumping into a much longer queue...

[stament]

Where do you stand if promised a car by x date and you give a deposit? Can you write down on the form that if delivery doesn't happen by said date then full refund applicable? Guessing if you do and they sign it then it's binding? I'm only asking because if they say the wait is say one month and it end us being say two months then that might not be acceptable to me and perhaps a different car then becomes a better option.

I've never seen an official booking form that even has a place to write in the delivery date.

Nothing to stop you asking them to write down the date they quote is there? Delivery by X date or deposit returned

[stevenl]

Where do you stand if promised a car by x date and you give a deposit? Can you write down on the form that if delivery doesn't happen by said date then full refund applicable? Guessing if you do and they sign it then it's binding? I'm only asking because if they say the wait is say one month and it end us being say two months then that might not be acceptable to me and perhaps a different car then becomes a better option.

If they pull that one, I am out. Put down B5k.

Now, it is up to them. Deliver in a "reasonable time" or bye.

Let's say you don't get your new PJS by the end of November... what's your next move?

When I bought my bt50 3 years ago I made the deal: if car is not delivered by xx date, they provide a replacement. And they did for 1 week, until delivery date.

[IMHO]

Where do you stand if promised a car by x date and you give a deposit? Can you write down on the form that if delivery doesn't happen by said date then full refund applicable? Guessing if you do and they sign it then it's binding? I'm only asking because if they say the wait is say one month and it end us being say two months then that might not be acceptable to me and perhaps a different car then becomes a better option.

I've never seen an official booking form that even has a place to write in the delivery date.

Nothing to stop you asking them to write down the date they quote is there? Delivery by X date or deposit returned

Sure, go for it

The question still remains: if you jump out of a shorter queue and into a longer one, what's the point? It's either that, or compromise and buy a car no-one else wants to queue up for I guess.

[stament]

I was more thinking along the lines of going in two queues if you see what I mean for two different models if preference is negligible but delivery is important. If they both come up then you lose only 5k if one comes up you'd get the other 5k back. I'm looking at it from a delivery point of view rather than model view if you see what i mean.

[stament]

Unfortunately, I'm out of the country and all the cars I've wanted to test drive are unavailable here. Started off thinking about a Jazz and this has progressed on to a Pajero or Fortuner. The Ford looks good too but is a bit more money and bigger engine so I suspect more juicy if comparing the top models.

On that point is there a fuel comparison off the 3 top models anywhere? Some of the sites are largely worded in thai and I must confess I can neither read or write Thai, nor speak it very well, one of my many shortcomings!

I see the Pajero has a delivery date of November, does anyone know the approximate waiting time for the other two models?

I see a lot of good info on this thread and others, particularly on comparatives. However, I haven't seen anything on reliability, warranty and servicing costs or depreciation, both of which are factors in determining the overall cost of a car, as indeed is fuel consumption. Are there any knowledgeable members who could give some insight on these factors, as depreciation is a huge consideration to some people and is perhaps a deciding factor for some people in choosing, particularly if you intend to change every three or four years.

thanks all, great posts and source of knowledge.

[IMHO]

Unfortunately, I'm out of the country and all the cars I've wanted to test drive are unavailable here. Started off thinking about a Jazz and this has progressed on to a Pajero or Fortuner. The Ford looks good too but is a bit more money and bigger engine so I suspect more juicy if comparing the top models.

On that point is there a fuel comparison off the 3 top models anywhere? Some of the sites are largely worded in thai and I must confess I can neither read or write Thai, nor speak it very well, one of my many shortcomings!

I see the Pajero has a delivery date of November, does anyone know the approximate waiting time for the other two models?

I see a lot of good info on this thread and others, particularly on comparatives. However, I haven't seen anything on reliability, warranty and servicing costs or depreciation, both of which are factors in determining the overall cost of a car, as indeed is fuel consumption. Are there any knowledgeable members who could give some insight on these factors, as depreciation is a huge consideration to some people and is perhaps a deciding factor for some people in choosing, particularly if you intend to change every three or four years.

thanks all, great posts and source of knowledge.

You wont get any fuel efficiency or crash test numbers on these until they get closer to launching in Australia (October).

As for resale, who knows? that's driven by popularity first and foremost (laws of supply and demand), and again it's way too early to see who's got market share - it won't be until Nov/Dec before a picture starts to form there. You will get a bunch of posters saying Toyota will have better resale, but that's just off-the-cuff talk - so much has changed in the past few years that that old adage just can't be relied upon anymore.

As an example, Last night I had an offer of 800K for my >5yo Pajero Sport with 170,000KM on the clock - that thing cost me 1.05M Baht new. it's probably the same as what I could have sold it for at just 1yo - but the model has gained in popularity massively since then.

One thing that is for sure is that prices are only going up next year (and every year after that), so it's the early adopters buying this year that will all benefit the most when it comes to reselling. Used prices have been proven to track new price rises time and time again in Thailand.

As for reliability, again, who knows? The Mitsubishi has an engine that's only been in production for about a year, with a gearbox this market has never seen. The Toyota has engines that have only been in production for a couple of months, and again using transmissions this market has never seen. The Ford has engines that have been in production for a decade, but have in previous generations had known issues (so far we can confirm at least one of them has been addressed), and transmissions we've seen in the Ranger lineup for 4 years. What can you read out of that? Not a lot. Again just too early to say.

Routine servicing costs are pretty much the same for all of these, but Ford have longer service intervals (15,000KM / 9 Months vs. Toyota and Mitsubishi with 10,000KM / 6 Months). Ford are also the only company here offering a 5 year / 150,000KM warranty option (for an extra 18K Baht). Mitsubishi abandoned their 5 year warranty option in late 2010, Toyota have never offered an extended warranty program.

IMHO, choosing any of these right now is a small 'leap of faith'. If you want to bean-count, you have no option but to wait until next year when these all have more data and mileage, but then you'll miss out on the tax savings of this year. Catch 22.

[stament]

thanks again for the post, I would like to point out that your posts on cars have been extremely helpful, you clearly know your stuff. Yes i read about the new tax coming in, ballpark how much do you think this will add to the top models talked about on this forum?

Incidentally, my wife totally dismissed the Pajero before going to see it, then she said its much better than the Toyota. She hasnt seen the Everest yet. I told her dont prejudge otherwise the best will always be the best in your view, which isnt possible over time no matter what the product. Take Kia and Skoda they are miles better than they used to be. Nokia is an exampke of ine going tbe other way and Kodak! Many more out there.

[mek]

IMHO! I wrote in a different thread yesterday wether I should buy a Subaru or Ford Everest. Think we'll end up with the Everest since it has more space. That said the Subaru Xv is nice too though. Anyway Ford gave us an offer on our 5 yo Pajero Sport with 130,000 on the clock. They called us and told us we could get 460,000 but later called us back and said they found a different tent that would give 550,000 but only if we decide right here right now:-) plus they would give a 30,000 baht discount on the Everest. Question, what is a realistic price we can get for the Pjs?

[IMHO]

thanks again for the post, I would like to point out that your posts on cars have been extremely helpful, you clearly know your stuff. Yes i read about the new tax coming in, ballpark how much do you think this will add to the top models talked about on this forum?

It's hard to say, because excise and interior taxes are paid on ex-factory prices - dealer retail price only attracts VAT. That said, somewhere between 100 and 200K Baht seems realistic for those models with > 200gm/KM CO2, and somewhere North of 50K for those with <200gm/KM..... So far, all we know is that the 3.2L Everest is definitely > 200gm/KM. According to my simple math, FE needs to be around 13KM/L in order for a diesel PPV to achieve < 200gm/KM CO2 - so it might be the case that none of them slip into the lower tax bracket.

IMHO! I wrote in a different thread yesterday wether I should buy a Subaru or Ford Everest. Think we'll end up with the Everest since it has more space. That said the Subaru Xv is nice too though. Anyway Ford gave us an offer on our 5 yo Pajero Sport with 130,000 on the clock. They called us and told us we could get 460,000 but later called us back and said they found a different tent that would give 550,000 but only if we decide right here right now:-) plus they would give a 30,000 baht discount on the Everest. Question, what is a realistic price we can get for the Pjs?

As noted in my post this morning, I just had an 800K offer on my 2010 PJS 2.5L GT. It's in very good condition (near perfect) though, and the 3 bidders for it all know how well it's been serviced and looked after. It also has 80K Baht of wheels and tires, and some entertainment system upgrades each of the buyers wants to keep, which is helping it's price up. They all also know I don't particularly want to sell it, so they have to make me an interesting offer.

None of them will even so much as ride in the backseat of the EV until they've paid though, 555

As always, finding a private buyer is the way to get the most money. At 550K I'd say that have found a buyer for 650-700

Edited August 30, 2015 by IMHO

[JaseTheBass]

I noticed in a few of these threads that people seem to take seriously what their wives think about what the best car might be. Bizarre...

[stament]

I noticed in a few of these threads that people seem to take seriously what their wives think about what the best car might be. Bizarre...

why not? if she isnt comfortable in a car or is comfortable in a certain car, and is the lone driver, why would I be so blinkered to ignore her comments? Cant a woman have a worthy opinion on a car she will be driving?

Or am I just a fool, thinking only my opinion counts in any discussion on cars even though I know hardly anything more than her on cars, hence my questions on here?

[JAS21]

I noticed in a few of these threads that people seem to take seriously what their wives think about what the best car might be. Bizarre...

If your wife's previous driving experience is limited to an old Kubota then I think you make a valid point.

[Jitar]

thanks again for the post, I would like to point out that your posts on cars have been extremely helpful, you clearly know your stuff. Yes i read about the new tax coming in, ballpark how much do you think this will add to the top models talked about on this forum?

It's hard to say, because excise and interior taxes are paid on ex-factory prices - dealer retail price only attracts VAT. That said, somewhere between 100 and 200K Baht seems realistic for those models with > 200gm/KM CO2, and somewhere North of 50K for those with <200gm/KM..... So far, all we know is that the 3.2L Everest is definitely > 200gm/KM. According to my simple math, FE needs to be around 13KM/L in order for a diesel PPV to achieve < 200gm/KM CO2 - so it might be the case that none of them slip into the lower tax bracket.

IMHO! I wrote in a different thread yesterday wether I should buy a Subaru or Ford Everest. Think we'll end up with the Everest since it has more space. That said the Subaru Xv is nice too though. Anyway Ford gave us an offer on our 5 yo Pajero Sport with 130,000 on the clock. They called us and told us we could get 460,000 but later called us back and said they found a different tent that would give 550,000 but only if we decide right here right now:-) plus they would give a 30,000 baht discount on the Everest. Question, what is a realistic price we can get for the Pjs?

As noted in my post this morning, I just had an 800K offer on my 2010 PJS 2.5L GT. It's in very good condition (near perfect) though, and the 3 bidders for it all know how well it's been serviced and looked after. It also has 80K Baht of wheels and tires, and some entertainment system upgrades each of the buyers wants to keep, which is helping it's price up. They all also know I don't particularly want to sell it, so they have to make me an interesting offer.

None of them will even so much as ride in the backseat of the EV until they've paid though, 555

As always, finding a private buyer is the way to get the most money. At 550K I'd say that have found a buyer for 650-700

Stament, we recently got offers from several tents to buy our 2011 PJS and a 2011 Fortuner for 600k each. These are both standard 4WD diesel models in average condition for company cars. The Fortuner has higher mileage but cost more new so basically the Toyota resale value turned out to be more or less the same.

The tent boys are saying the prices of the previous gen models will reduce as the new models become available. Maybe, but this may soften if the new model price increase next year really is ~200k.

Ford told us last week the Everest T was 2 - 3 months delivery depending on colour and the T+ sometime next year.

[JaseTheBass]

I noticed in a few of these threads that people seem to take seriously what their wives think about what the best car might be. Bizarre...

If your wife's previous driving experience is limited to an old Kubota then I think you make a valid point.

I guess that must be quite a common occurence seeing how many Toyotas are on the roads in Thailand.

[fullcave]

I noticed in a few of these threads that people seem to take seriously what their wives think about what the best car might be. Bizarre...

If your wife's previous driving experience is limited to an old Kubota then I think you make a valid point.

I guess that must be quite a common occurence seeing how many Toyotas are on the roads in Thailand.

Not to mention ford! LOL.

[IMHO]

The guys over at headlightmag.com have been doing some acceleration and FE tests on these new PPV's... No data on the new Fortuner as yet though

Pajero Sport 2.4L 4x4 GT-Premium 8AT:

0-100: 11.54s

80-120: 8.44s

FE: 11.58 KM/L

Everest 3.2L 4x4 Titanium+ 6AT:

0-100: 12.33s

80-120: 9.32s

FE: 11.16 KM/L

Everest 2.2L 4x2 Titanium 6AT:

0-100: 13.77s

80-120: 10.13s

FE: 12.59 KM/L

As noted, no tests on the new Fortuner's yet, as a comparison I guess we can look at the old model:

Fortuner 3.0L 4x4 V 4AT:

0-100: 13.28s

80-120: 10.30s

FE: 10.63 KM/L

Fortuner 3.0L 4x2 V 4AT:

0-100: 12.71s

80-120: 10.14s

FE: 12.37 KM/L

And we could also look at the new Revo:

Revo 2.8: 4x4 G 6AT:

0-100: 11.63s

80-120: 8.55s

FE: 12.52 KM/L

What can we glean out of this so far?

1. The PJS has the best acceleration times (out of the new gen), but FE is lower than expected given the small engine capacity and 8AT (even the lighter Revo 2.8L is slower).

2 .The 2.2L Everest is slow off the line, but has the best FE - while still retaining similar on-the-go performance to the old Fortuner 3.0L 4AT.

3. It's highly unlikely any of these PPV's are going to get into the lower tax bracket next year.

Source / further reading: http://community.headlightmag.com/index.php?topic=46505.0

Edited September 29, 2015 by IMHO

[Jitar]

Thanks IMHO and Jimmy.

The Everest acceleration suggest Ford really need a diet.

Mitsu have done well to improve the new PJS acceleration and fuel economy compared to the old PJS and current 3.2L Everest.

The old PJS 2.5L 5AT 4x4 results were:

0-100: 12.58s

80-120: 9.59s

FE: 10.2 KM/L

Still some way to go to the 2.8L 6AT 4x4 Trailblazer:

0-100: 10.46s

80-120: 7.95s

FE: 11.69 KM/L

Source: Old Headlight Mags.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Jitar

[watcharacters]

Some updated charts...

Green = Can claim "best in class"

Red = Missing feature

4WD Top Spec:

2015PPV-4WD.png

2WD Top Spec:

2015PPV-2WD.png

In the 2WD charts I included two Fortuner versions, as they have a model that far exceeds to price points of others.

Feel free to let me know if I've got something wrong here

I think it's too bad much of your chart is with the red catagory. Product information is a good thing for consumers.

Many thanks for posting this chart.

[IMHO]

Thanks IMHO and Jimmy.

The Everest acceleration suggest Ford really need a diet.

Mitsu have done well to improve the new PJS acceleration and fuel economy compared to the old PJS and current 3.2L Everest.

The old PJS 2.5L 5AT 4x4 results were:

0-100: 12.58s

80-120: 9.59s

FE: 10.2 KM/L

Still some way to go to the 2.8L 6AT 4x4 Trailblazer:

0-100: 10.46s

80-120: 7.95s

FE: 11.69 KM/L

Source: Old Headlight Mags.

At the end of the day, these aren't sports SUV's - they're cruisers/tourers - give me 0-100 times under 7s and I'll start properly caring about the times

In this segment, I'd rate ride comfort, safety, utility, materials quality, and design way above acceleration times - the fact is, performance is so close, and so, well, ordinary (real world) that it's actually a small part of the total package.

That said, it's still always interesting to analyze numbers

As for the Chev acceleration numbers, but that's because of everything it doesn't have - not what it does, hehe. Quite a compromise for a second or so.

[Ace of Pop]

I've never noticed the Blazer to be any faster ,,seems much the same as any truck to me. Just more noises..