Germany's example offers guiding light as darkness threatens to descend again

[webfact]

STREETWISE
Germany's example offers guiding light as darkness threatens to descend again
Achara Deboonme

BANGKOK: -- In its "East Asia Pacific Update" released in April, the World Bank noted: "Further economic recovery will depend on the competitiveness of Thai export products and political stability in the years to come."

Back then the focus on political stability surprised me. It should not be an issue given that the junta has been around for a year and its grip on power should extend for at least another year. With dissidents facing arrest and scores of people summoned for "attitude adjustment", political instability should not be a risk.

I understand now. Two separate events that occurred recently both indicate a deep social rift that could lead to yet another period of political instability. The first concerns the tragic death of the son of Veerakarn Musigapong, former chairman of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD), better known as the red shirts. The second involves an announcement by Suthep Thaugsuban, former chief of the People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC), or yellow shirts.

As members of the Musigapong family mourned and strangers offered condolences, some said it was the bad karma of the father that caused the tragedy. Responding to a post on a public chat board - http://hilight.kapook.com/view/124133 - a man calling himself Yao Huanonwat said the family should not seek sympathy as they themselves had shown no sympathy when others had died. That comment drew attacks and counter-attacks, as deep hatred spilled from either side of the Thai divide. Believe it or not, some linked his son's death to Veerakarn's political role. Reading such comments saddened me. The death of their child is every parent's worst nightmare come true, yet it must be more terrible if the child dies because of their actions. But, sincerely, how did Veerakarn's role as UDD leader have anything to do with his son's death?

Also worrying is what Suthep's plans will lead to. On leaving the monkhood, he proclaimed his support for the junta and urged an extension of its control. He also announced the launch of the People's Democratic Reform Foundation (PDRF) and a bid to raise public funds. It is easy to assume that donations will be huge. During the six months of protest up to May last year, donors poured money into PDRC coffers, apparently undeterred by the lack of any proper financial scrutiny.

Suthep's press conference was given the go-ahead by the National Centre for Peace and Order (NCPO), which prompted the UDD to protest that if the yellow shirts were allowed to gather, so should the red shirts. It appears the political instability we have witnessed on and off since 2006 is returning.

It is beyond my imagination how this rift can be mended, when all Thais are eager to proclaim love of their country yet do not know how to love their countrymen.

For a contrasting example of a nation divided we might look to Germany and the way its citizens felt when the country was split after World War II. While some Germans remained loyal to their defeated leadership, others expressed loathing for the Nazis. Yet despite physical division, Germans retained a strong sense of solidarity. The yearning for reunion never faded during decades under different regimes, and it was eventually realised 25 years ago.

I admire the willing sacrifice made by Germans on the West side, who bore most of the huge cost of reunion. Magazin Deutschland summed it up: In 2013 the annual solidarity surcharge paid by German taxpayers to fund the Reconstruction East programme had risen to 14.4 billion euros. The Westerners are sharing the pain of their eastern compatriots.

A united Germany is looking to the future without forgetting its past.

The files collected by the Stasi, East Germany's State Security Service, have been kept and are opened on request to shed light on a dark chapter in history. The Stasi kept a reported 158-kilometre-long archive of files on East German citizens along with 1.7 million photos and films.

The Germans realise that the past cannot be undone. We must understand it and repair the rifts before all can move forward.

Not only has Germany risen from the ashes of World War II, it is now the strongest economy in Europe and the fourth-largest in the world.

Thais are taught about the glories of their history. We dream about being great again in the future. But that will only be possible if we embrace our failures. How many Thais know what led to the fall of the Sukhothai Kingdom, considered the foundation of Siam's history? I wonder what we will teach our children if political instability flares again and breaks up the country.

Without unity there can be no peace. Without internal peace, there is no foundation for our commitments to our people and to other countries. As the World Bank report suggests, even foreigners sense that true peace remains a far-fetched dream for Thailand.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Germanys-example-offers-guiding-light-as-darkness--30265818.html


-- The Nation 2015-08-04

[LomSak27]

The Nation continues with its series of strange and bizarre political opinion pieces; Bravo

as deep hatred spilled from either side of the Thai divide. Believe it or not, some linked his son's death to Veerakarn's political role

No kidding! However the crazy spinner s at The Nations seem to have developed cold feet and do not take credit for all their good work in stoking this very hatred and intolerance. Don't be shy. Then we segue into a far fetched fantasy correlation between Germany post WWII and post 89.

Finally an appeal is made to remember the historical lessons of the past, how things have fallen apart, yet at the same time they are unable to actually state examples in their article. I assume they don't because they could be accused of being 'un-thai' and as such this cannot be talked about. Such are the traps of ultra nationalism. ,

Edited August 3, 2015 by LomSak27

[Bluespunk]

"It is beyond my imagination how this rift can be mended, when all Thais are eager to proclaim love of their country yet do not know how to love their countrymen."

People can dislike each other and yet still love their country you know.

The two things are not the same.

Another terrible article from the nation.

[BigBadGeordie]

"As the World Bank report suggests, EVEN foreigners sense that true peace remains a far-fetched dream for Thailand"

More patronising xenophobic clap-trap!

But credit where credit is due, at least the article did not say "the don't understand Thainess"

[Somtamnication]

Fact remains: Thais despise each other. Political stability is a long way coming.

[rhythmworx]

Lets look to Germany as an example, but drive round with swastikas on our cars, because really we know nothing of anything outside this country other than people come over to spend money and we take as much as we can,

Is that accurate?

Couldn't be bothered reading my eyesights going, feeling psychic though.

I would estimate I hit the nail.

[JakeSully]

I couldn't read past the Nazi sympathizing author's propaganda.

And Suthep should be happy at his own creation.. he clamored Yingluck and the army to give them exactly what they've created.. a version of feudalism where the people get no say and having a conversation with more than 4 people at one time is reason enough for the Gestapo to be called.

[ikke]

Lets look to Germany as an example, but drive round with swastikas on our cars, because really we know nothing of anything outside this country other than people come over to spend money and we take as much as we can,

Is that accurate?

Couldn't be bothered reading my eyesights going, feeling psychic though.

I would estimate I hit the nail.

"but drive round with swastikas on our cars, because really we know nothing of anything outside this country "

Are maybe you are the one knowing nothing about swastika, an ancient symbol used in Hinduism and Buddhism.

in Vietnam you can find Buddhist temples with swastikas on and this temples are 200 years old.... so...

[Toknarok]

For 28 years the Wall divided Germany. In the West you had progress and prosperity, in the East stagnation and poverty. Perhaps you could compare it to Bangkok with it's affluent 'amaart' and Issan and the North with its peasants and poverty. When the wall fell in November '89 the West went out of its way to assist its poorer 'brothers' in the East at vast expense to itself.

Quite the contrary is happening here in Thailand. The 'amaart' West want to keep everything for themselves and are very reluctant to do anything for their poorer 'brothers' in the Isaan East.

When Thaksin (with all his faults) began chipping away at the Wall the amaart went out of their way to get rid of him. Angela Merkel is an East German, are the West satisfied with her? it would appear so, and if not they can vote her out at the next election, she doesn't need to call in the army to stay in power.

To compare Thailand to the united Germany is ridiculous..

[geriatrickid]

Lets look to Germany as an example, but drive round with swastikas on our cars, because really we know nothing of anything outside this country other than people come over to spend money and we take as much as we can,

Is that accurate?

Couldn't be bothered reading my eyesights going, feeling psychic though.

I would estimate I hit the nail.

"but drive round with swastikas on our cars, because really we know nothing of anything outside this country "

Are maybe you are the one knowing nothing about swastika, an ancient symbol used in Hinduism and Buddhism.

in Vietnam you can find Buddhist temples with swastikas on and this temples are 200 years old.... so...

You are the one who knows nothing about the use of the swastika in Thailand. No maybe on that. The person you criticize is referring to the love affair that many Thais have with Nazi symbols. You obviously do not know the difference. Here's a primer for you;

How do you expect to be taken seriously if you consider behaviour such as this religious based?

The last photo is quite something. Will you now insist that this clueless twit is a very religious woman celebrating Buddhism?

Most rational people people will see her for what she is: An uneducated, ignorant fool celebrating Adolf.

I suggest you get out more often.

[JakeSully]

The last photo is quite something. Will you now insist that this clueless twit is a very religious woman celebrating Buddhism?

Most rational people people will see her for what she is: An uneducated, ignorant fool celebrating Adolf.

Makes you feel you want to:

on her!

[jaywalker]

I thought the article was quite thought-provoking, and I do agree that the xenophobia exists in abundance. A smile masks a frown at every turn in Thailand at best, or a pack of rabid meth-heads.

Too bad that independent thought is frowned upon until it reaches boiling point, whether it be street protests, or a pack of teenagers ganging up on somebody, and even then, it takes 10 -10,000 of them to act upon anything.

I didn't read any Nazi-sympathizing in the article at all.

It just said that Germany was divided for decades under completely separate regimes, yet managed to emerge unified and with the strongest economy in Europe.

The Thai/Asian mid-set of "Face" and rampant corruption at every level since the beginning of time is what holds the country back.

That's why one truck can knock over 47 power poles, rampant ladyboys picking pockets in Pattaya, bag snatchers, gold chain snatchers, thugs beating the tar out of each other, taxis won't use meters, jet-ski & tuk-tuk scams etc, etc.

No place on earth is perfect, and Thailand does still have its fair share of quiet places, as long as you are well away from any city lights.

Pattaya, Phuket, or Samui though? No Thanks.

Issan is boring as hell to me though. Chang Mai the same (to me).

BKK is a 24/7 traffic jam.

================

On the other hand, comparing the Germans to Thai's or vice versa is like comparing apples to oranges.

[bamnutsak]

Acknowledging the past is not in the best interests of the ruling class here.

History is best left sealed, or dosed out in easily digested "numbers", along with the requisite "core values".

Educating the masses would be a huge mistake.

[lostinisaan]

I admire the willing sacrifice made by Germans on the West side, who bore most of the huge cost of reunion. Magazin Deutschland summed it up: In 2013 the annual solidarity surcharge paid by German taxpayers to fund the Reconstruction East programme had risen to 14.4 billion euros. The Westerners are sharing the pain of their eastern compatriots.

What a bunch of bullshit. All East Germans received "welcome money" in form of 100 German West Mark. It later turned out that a couple of millions received the amount twice, or thrice....

Not many Westerners were sharing the pain of their "Eastern "counterparts." There's pure hate between, the "Besser Wessis, ( more knowledgeable West Germans) and the Ossis. ( A slang word for Ost=(East) I remember many incidents in East Germany, where some Nazis really kicked asses of innocent foreigners from all over the world, just because they didn't speak their slang?

"Thais are taught about the glories of their history. We dream about being great again in the future. But that will only be possible if we embrace our failures. How many Thais know what led to the fall of the Sukhothai Kingdom, considered the foundation of Siam's history? I wonder what we will teach our children if political instability flares again and breaks up the country."

Most Thais, including history teachers do not know much about the history of any other South East Asian countries. This article is really rubbish.

.

[Pete Beale]

"Thais are taught about the glories of their history. We dream about being great again in the future."

When exactly were they great in the past ?

[Orac]

The problem, as highlighted in the article, is that the author and many Thais not to mention quite a few on here equate political stability to a military junta running the country whereas many looking on from outside see it as a short term power grab which has happened umpteen times before here and anything but stable.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Orac

[Cats4ever]

Lets look to Germany as an example, but drive round with swastikas on our cars, because really we know nothing of anything outside this country other than people come over to spend money and we take as much as we can,

Is that accurate?

Couldn't be bothered reading my eyesights going, feeling psychic though.

I would estimate I hit the nail.

The swastika can be a buddhist symbol. Obviously, if you are referring to swastikas as part of a T shirt celebrating the nazis, then the buddhist angle would not hold water.

[eggers]

Whilst the article refers to the separation of Germany & the Berlin Wall,Thailand is united to/by the Monarchy, yet separated by ideals without a wall. Ideals create divisions in many countries around the world & it's only by compromise, acceptance & generational change will unity occur.

[Misterwhisper]

"Thais are taught about the glories of their history. We dream about being great again in the future."

Does the author perhaps refer to "glories" like this one?...

The Siamese Army in 1893 (note the state-of-the-art equipment)

[phoenixdoglover]

The analogy to Germany is almost nonsensical.

Now maybe if the Chinese take over half of Thailand for 40 years, we will have similar conditions for Thai feelings of national solidarity and reunification.

[EnglishJohn]

I couldn't read past the Nazi sympathizing author's propaganda.

And Suthep should be happy at his own creation.. he clamored Yingluck and the army to give them exactly what they've created.. a version of feudalism where the people get no say and having a conversation with more than 4 people at one time is reason enough for the Gestapo to be called.

Wow, thank you for giving us the distorted view of an ignorant red-shirt.

1) Yingluck had nothing to do with the coup. It was UDD terrorism murdering protestors. If they didn't there would have been no coup. Certainly ordered from Dubai as was the protest escalation in 2010.

2) The Junta are NOTHING like the Gestapo. Go read up on your history.

Did you forget the 'red villages' encouraged by Thaksin ?. Designed to encourage hate of those not of the same 'faith' ?.

Have you forgotten the intimidation thugs outside the courtrooms whenever one of their own was in there ?.

Have you forgotten the grenades and drive-by shootings of newspapers who printed anything they didn't like ?.

Thaksin and his red-shirt UDD mobs have a lot in common with Hitler and his brown shirts.

The difference is that Hitler genuinely believed he was doing it for his country and if they were stronger, they would triumph. Of course he went mad eventually as all with absolute power do.

Thaksin was doing it for personal greed and power. Not single shred of nobility or honour in his body.

[jayboy]

The Germans were compelled to look into their past with an unflinching gaze and recognise the evil that almost destroyed the finest example of Western civilisation.This needs courage and humility - neither apparent in other nations with a dreadful and wicked history like China and Russia who have not faced up to the truth.Japan is partly on that camp.Germany is the only country that has been entirely admirable in this regard.

All the above mentioned countries were great civilisations.Thailand is an exotic but fundamentally underachieving second tier nation whose strong points are evident but still superficial and gossamer thin.Thailand's contribution to world civilisation is essentially its charm - nothing of any substance.

The Nation opinion piece was right to compare with Germany.The problem however is that the Thais generally have yet to face up to their problems.I fear a bloodless transition to social justice is increasingly unlikely and of course we know that revolution devours its own children.

[CMHomeboy78]

"Thais are taught about the glories of their history. We dream about being great again in the future."

When exactly were they great in the past ?

A History of South-East Asia by D.G.E.Hall [st Martin's Press], puts Thai history in context and highlights the periods of influence and prosperity in the region.

This will point the way to further study for the edification of those interested in the subject.

Edited August 4, 2015 by CMHomeboy78

[ddavidovsky]

Don't see any comparison with Germany.

The Thai situation is quite different. All the power is in the hands of an aristocratic-military alliance that was designed (decades ago) to suppress the possibility of a communist revolution. It was successful in that and Thailand prospered when the surrounding countries all went under in various ways. Hallelujah. That's why we're all here now.

But now the communist threat is over, the old hierarchy won't step aside. Refusing to believe that everyone in the country has equal rights, they have actively promoted the class division (see all the white-suit parades), and regularly go so far as to disenfranchise the people completely in order to re-consolidate their power. It's the right-wing fighting against progress.

It'll sort itself out. This is just the messy transition period. Let's hope not too messy.

[Jimlove]

Lets look to Germany as an example, but drive round with swastikas on our cars, because really we know nothing of anything outside this country other than people come over to spend money and we take as much as we can,

Is that accurate?

Couldn't be bothered reading my eyesights going, feeling psychic though.

I would estimate I hit the nail.

"but drive round with swastikas on our cars, because really we know nothing of anything outside this country "

Are maybe you are the one knowing nothing about swastika, an ancient symbol used in Hinduism and Buddhism.

in Vietnam you can find Buddhist temples with swastikas on and this temples are 200 years old.... so...

You are the one who knows nothing about the use of the swastika in Thailand. No maybe on that. The person you criticize is referring to the love affair that many Thais have with Nazi symbols. You obviously do not know the difference. Here's a primer for you;

swastika.jpg

How do you expect to be taken seriously if you consider behaviour such as this religious based?

swatika 2.jpg swatika4.jpg

The last photo is quite something. Will you now insist that this clueless twit is a very religious woman celebrating Buddhism?

Most rational people people will see her for what she is: An uneducated, ignorant fool celebrating Adolf.

I suggest you get out more often.

Good job, you made "Ikke" shut up ... Outrageous pics but just show the ignorance of thais - they know nothing about history or anything else really ...

When the school children were parading as nazis it must have been a very proud school, parents and the city of Chiang Mai ... but of course Thailand was supporting "The Axes of Evil" and not the Allied side

[lap82]

Looks like everything depend son Germany, always, under the eyes of these journalists.

[jayboy]

Don't see any comparison with Germany.

The Thai situation is quite different. All the power is in the hands of an aristocratic-military alliance that was designed (decades ago) to suppress the possibility of a communist revolution. It was successful in that and Thailand prospered when the surrounding countries all went under in various ways. Hallelujah. That's why we're all here now.

But now the communist threat is over, the old hierarchy won't step aside. Refusing to believe that everyone in the country has equal rights, they have actively promoted the class division (see all the white-suit parades), and regularly go so far as to disenfranchise the people completely in order to re-consolidate their power. It's the right-wing fighting against progress.

It'll sort itself out. This is just the messy transition period. Let's hope not too messy.

It wasn't being suggested in The Nation article that Thailand's situation is "like" that of Germany.It was being suggested that Thailand could learn from German's example of self sacrifice in the interests of unity.

My point was a little different in summary that Thais will have to understand and accept some harsh realities before they can move on to "sunlit uplands".

Your understanding of the demise of the CPT is somewhat defective.The aristocratic-military alliance did not "defeat" the communnists who in many ways were almost as potent until the early 1980's.The primary factor was the end of China's support assisted it must be said by some deft footwork from Kukrit and the Prem.The student element after the Thammasat massacre drifted back.Equally important Thailand's astonishing economic advances made the CPT increasingly irrelevant.

The army's efforts until the very end (Chavalit's successful efforts being notable) arguably had the effect of increasing villagers support for the CPT.

Edited August 4, 2015 by jayboy

[Baerboxer]

"Thais are taught about the glories of their history. We dream about being great again in the future."

When exactly were they great in the past ?

They are still great and always have been - legends in their own minds!

[robertson468]

Lets look to Germany as an example, but drive round with swastikas on our cars, because really we know nothing of anything outside this country other than people come over to spend money and we take as much as we can,

Is that accurate?

Couldn't be bothered reading my eyesights going, feeling psychic though.

I would estimate I hit the nail.

"but drive round with swastikas on our cars, because really we know nothing of anything outside this country "

Are maybe you are the one knowing nothing about swastika, an ancient symbol used in Hinduism and Buddhism.

in Vietnam you can find Buddhist temples with swastikas on and this temples are 200 years old.... so...

You are the one who knows nothing about the use of the swastika in Thailand. No maybe on that. The person you criticize is referring to the love affair that many Thais have with Nazi symbols. You obviously do not know the difference. Here's a primer for you;

swastika.jpg

How do you expect to be taken seriously if you consider behaviour such as this religious based?

swatika 2.jpg swatika4.jpg

The last photo is quite something. Will you now insist that this clueless twit is a very religious woman celebrating Buddhism?

Most rational people people will see her for what she is: An uneducated, ignorant fool celebrating Adolf.

I suggest you get out more often.

I believe you hit the nail on the head - education! Until the masses have a good level of education, they will continually be "bribed" by the highest bidder, with little or no understanding of politics, or the appalling way many politicians (and very rich) are allowed to conduct themselves with little or no accountability or transparency. I would liken Thailand to the time of the Magna Carta in the UK, so they have a long, long, long way to go to solving their issues. I love Thailand and many of the people, but sadly I feel I can no longer live here and watch them tear themselves apart time and again and the wanton lawlessness that oft goes unchecked. Sadly reconciliation will not happen in my lifetime. I will of course come back to holiday from time to time, but living in the "wild west" permanently has lost it's appeal. It will probably take us a year to get everything together and of course once we go, I will follow developments avidly on Thai Visa.

[ddavidovsky]

Don't see any comparison with Germany.

The Thai situation is quite different. All the power is in the hands of an aristocratic-military alliance that was designed (decades ago) to suppress the possibility of a communist revolution. It was successful in that and Thailand prospered when the surrounding countries all went under in various ways. Hallelujah. That's why we're all here now.

But now the communist threat is over, the old hierarchy won't step aside. Refusing to believe that everyone in the country has equal rights, they have actively promoted the class division (see all the white-suit parades), and regularly go so far as to disenfranchise the people completely in order to re-consolidate their power. It's the right-wing fighting against progress.

It'll sort itself out. This is just the messy transition period. Let's hope not too messy.

It wasn't being suggested in The Nation article that Thailand's situation is "like" that of Germany.It was being suggested that Thailand could learn from German's example of self sacrifice in the interests of unity.

My point was a little different in summary that Thais will have to understand and accept some harsh realities before they can move on to "sunlit uplands".

Your understanding of the demise of the CPT is somewhat defective.The aristocratic-military alliance did not "defeat" the communnists who in many ways were almost as potent until the early 1980's.The primary factor was the end of China's support assisted it must be said by some deft footwork from Kukrit and the Prem.The student element after the Thammasat massacre drifted back.Equally important Thailand's astonishing economic advances made the CPT increasingly irrelevant.

The army's efforts until the very end (Chavalit's successful efforts being notable) arguably had the effect of increasing villagers support for the CPT.

Still can't see any analogy with Germany. Different circumstances, therefore different solutions.

My take on those circumstances: by providing (and enforcing) a banner of tradition, loyalty and nationalism under a revered figurehead, much of the impetus (ie, the groundswell of discontent) that would have almost certainly propelled a revolution at that time, was defused and contained. Clever sociology more than anything. And it still works that way.