A bit of a laugh re honda / yamaha marketing

[illy]

Does anyone else have a bit of a chuckle about the opposing marketing angles that Honda and Yamaha use for their 300cc bikes during the Moto GP and WSBK telecasts?

One uses a couple of Thai kids [no disrespects to their abilities] and one uses two multiple world champions, and they are always shown consecutively.

I think the Honda boys miss the boat on this one.

[DLang]

Honda and Yamaha use for their 300cc bikes

Well, Honda have done well if they've made you think that their '300' is actually 300cc.

It most certainly isn't.

[illy]

Both bikes are just sheep in wolf's clothing I guess...cant say have taken any detailed notice of what they are actually marketing,just the 'fail' on Honda's behalf.... I know the Yam is an R3 the Honda is a CBR something....

[DLang]

Both bikes are just sheep in wolf's clothing I guess...cant say have taken any detailed notice of what they are actually marketing,just the 'fail' on Honda's behalf.... I know the Yam is an R3 the Honda is a CBR something....

The fail is their low revving 286cc single cylinder.

Compared to the 296cc twin-cyl ninja and 321cc twin yammy.

[papa al]

I really fail to see the humor.

Sorry.

[ktm jeff]

I think the joke / humor is that after Honda has tried to sell its single cylinder CB/R 250 / 275 bikes ( their not really 300cc ) , Kawasaki and Yamaha come along on the very next advert , with their high performance / modern 300cc bikes , and kind of make Honda look silly . Funny , in a way , but also sad that it shows Honda to be a shadow of its once great , former self .

[speedtripler]

I think the joke / humor is that after Honda has tried to sell its single cylinder CB/R 250 / 275 bikes ( their not really 300cc ) , Kawasaki and Yamaha come along on the very next advert , with their high performance / modern 300cc bikes , and kind of make Honda look silly . Funny , in a way , but also sad that it shows Honda to be a shadow of its once great , former self .

If you look at the numbers, Honda had the right strategy for Thai people

All the majority care about is the looks,not burning around a race track...

[illy]

Yes but both adverts are based around burning around a race track. One with the most famous , most successful motorcycle riders in the world and one with a couple of Thai kids.If you are going to base the marketing on 'race bred" images its obvious Yamaha have done the better job.

I do still like Hondas though, but not these funny little '300' models but I guess its a good model for the Asian markets, and excellent prices too.

[ktm jeff]

Theres little wrong with the CBR/CRF bikes when used as good little runabouts , but "burning up the track" with 18 BHP wont smoke the tire . I dont know how many CBR,s have sold since their launch nearly 5 years ago , but lets see how many Yamaha and Kawasaki sell over the coming years . The good news may be these 300cc twins may lead onto 400cc triples/fours . Now theres a nice thought .

[eisfeld]

I think marketing a 300cc bike to young people is more realistic than marketing to the worlds best racers. So in some sense they are just more honest.

And the reason people buy Hondas so much more in Thailand is that they have so much market dominance. Their shops are literally everywhere while you have to look on a map to find a Kawa or Yamaha dealer. It's just more practical.

[illy]

I am starting to see quite a few of those R3 bikes around. Honda's CBR650R is a ripper of a bike I believe...would buy one if I had the money[...but stuck with my Ninja 650R for a while I guess.] but these little bikes are pretty good for young Thai kids thinking there are Rattapark Willarot I guess??

[illy]

18BHP..is that true??? I thought scooters had more than that?? cant be right...

Theres little wrong with the CBR/CRF bikes when used as good little runabouts , but "burning up the track" with 18 BHP wont smoke the tire . I dont know how many CBR,s have sold since their launch nearly 5 years ago , but lets see how many Yamaha and Kawasaki sell over the coming years . The good news may be these 300cc twins may lead onto 400cc triples/fours . Now theres a nice thought .

[menzies233]

I run a Honda CBR250 and to make a claim that a 286cc bike is a 300 is a joke, Honda need to wake up.

I would love to see the R3, I cannot find a single one in Chiang Mai, not a trace. Looks like a great bike that will put the Ninja in its second place. But the CBR300 is barely even close, the performance of the R3 seems to be in a totally different class.

[andrewrooney]

I always find it amusing how annoyed some people on here seem to get about Honda rounding off 286 to 300.

Ninja 300: 296cc is ok.

KTM RC 390: 373cc no worries!

But Honda makes a 286cc bike and calls it CBR300, and they are evil and deceiving people

Obviously anybody who buys the bike will have done enough basic research to know the actual cc. Usually people who buy a bike in this range (myself included obviously) do so because

a) They don't have a lot of money

They aren't very experienced or

c) They mostly ride in the city.

The CBR300 ticks all those boxes, being 50,000 baht cheaper than the competition and also lighter for easy handling in traffic.

Buy whatever suits you, but the serial butthurt against Honda just seems silly.

The advertisement in question may well be stupid and hilarious, I haven't seen it

[speedtripler]

18BHP..is that true??? I thought scooters had more than that?? cant be right...

Theres little wrong with the CBR/CRF bikes when used as good little runabouts , but "burning up the track" with 18 BHP wont smoke the tire . I dont know how many CBR,s have sold since their launch nearly 5 years ago , but lets see how many Yamaha and Kawasaki sell over the coming years . The good news may be these 300cc twins may lead onto 400cc triples/fours . Now theres a nice thought .

Scooters have 9-11ish lol

And even this is more power than a lot of people can handle judging by the amount of white chalk lines you see driving around bkk every day

I thought the cbr250 had around 24hp but yes, it seems measly is its actually only 18hp lol

Still a few k people drop them every year so more powerful might just get them in more trouble or even a ticket to the next life

[ktm jeff]

I understand the confusion with the engine sizes verses the model numbers . Yamaha should be calling the R3 a 325 , but even if the Honda was a real 300cc , the single cylinder isnt even close in performance , to the Yamaha . A far better single would surely be the Kawasaki Ninja or the SL . KTM should call their RC a 375 . KTM also do a 500 enduro that is over 510 cc . The single cylinder Hondas are low on power , but are fine to use for certain rides / riders . And if they are 10,000 cheaper than the Kawasaki singles , that makes a difference to some . Im not sure if these "strange" engine sizes arent a result of using piston / crank sizes from previous models , or some magic bore / stroke formula .

[speedtripler]

I would like/love a new remake of my 1992/3 cb400

Even twenty years later you could have set your watch by it, never skipped beat and didn't require any expensive works etc

More than likely in my favourite top 5 of bikes I've every owned, there wasn't crazy power (maybe 53ish hp) but it was enough and it sounded amazing with a yoshi pipe

What went wrong? Why can we not buy that again,?? I want a new one, second hand after 23 yrs of Thai mechanics... No thx

Plz just relaunch a new one and I'll take it...

[andrewrooney]

I understand the confusion with the engine sizes verses the model numbers . Yamaha should be calling the R3 a 325 , but even if the Honda was a real 300cc , the single cylinder isnt even close in performance , to the Yamaha . A far better single would surely be the Kawasaki Ninja or the SL . KTM should call their RC a 375 . KTM also do a 500 enduro that is over 510 cc . The single cylinder Hondas are low on power , but are fine to use for certain rides / riders . And if they are 10,000 cheaper than the Kawasaki singles , that makes a difference to some . Im not sure if these "strange" engine sizes arent a result of using piston / crank sizes from previous models , or some magic bore / stroke formula .

Man most people aren't that confused, it's actually pretty easy to tell the difference

Re: price I was referring to the CBR300 being 50,000 baht cheaper than the Ninja 300 and the R3. With that kind of price difference (and the fact that it's a single) it's no surprise it's a bit less powerful at the top end.

The Ninja 250 SL is actually about 10,000 baht cheaper than the CBR300, and is a bit less powerful. Still a nice looking bike, and a great deal too. The main downside (for me) is the small size and riding position; it really feels like it's designed for a shorter rider.

On your last point, yes, the 286cc engine size of the CBR300 is due to it being the same bore size as the 250, just with longer stroke. At the end of the day, the CBR300 is basically nothing more than an updated version of the 250... but I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

[ktm jeff]

I confess Andrew , i cant tell the difference between the 250/300 - LOL , but they are not my type of bike style in this engine size . Prefer enduro / supermoto . I am supprised the Kawasaki Ninja SL is cheaper than the Honda , when the KLX ( although a much better bike ) is more than the CRF . If the parts are suitable , it makes economic sense to share components such as cranks , bore sizes , pistons . Hence the "strange" engine displacements we are seeing . There is also a window of bore / stroke ratios that are suitable for certain applications . Wonder why Yamaha went for 321cc . Thats cheating . Of course it going to give more power and torque than the little Honda , even if the Honda wis a twin cylinder . Its 12% bigger .

[andrewrooney]

I confess Andrew , i cant tell the difference between the 250/300 - LOL , but they are not my type of bike style in this engine size . Prefer enduro / supermoto . I am supprised the Kawasaki Ninja SL is cheaper than the Honda , when the KLX ( although a much better bike ) is more than the CRF . If the parts are suitable , it makes economic sense to share components such as cranks , bore sizes , pistons . Hence the "strange" engine displacements we are seeing . There is also a window of bore / stroke ratios that are suitable for certain applications . Wonder why Yamaha went for 321cc . Thats cheating . Of course it going to give more power and torque than the little Honda , even if the Honda wis a twin cylinder . Its 12% bigger .

I think since Yamaha came a little late to the party with the R3, they made a conscious decision to go with a bigger engine to try to compete with the Ninja 300. That's just speculation on my part though.

[ktm jeff]

I confess Andrew , i cant tell the difference between the 250/300 - LOL , but they are not my type of bike style in this engine size . Prefer enduro / supermoto . I am supprised the Kawasaki Ninja SL is cheaper than the Honda , when the KLX ( although a much better bike ) is more than the CRF . If the parts are suitable , it makes economic sense to share components such as cranks , bore sizes , pistons . Hence the "strange" engine displacements we are seeing . There is also a window of bore / stroke ratios that are suitable for certain applications . Wonder why Yamaha went for 321cc . Thats cheating . Of course it going to give more power and torque than the little Honda , even if the Honda wis a twin cylinder . Its 12% bigger .

I think since Yamaha came a little late to the party with the R3, they made a conscious decision to go with a bigger engine to try to compete with the Ninja 300. That's just speculation on my part though.

You could well be right , but 321cc ! , where does that "sit" . Its catching up with the 471cc ( 500 ) Honda CBR . The classes of bikes - 250 , 400 , 600 , 750 , 1000 - seem to be fluid . So are we to expect a 362cc Suzuki next ? . Bring on the high reving 400 fours .

[stevomaesot]

Can anyone tell me roughly what I should be paying for a new Honda cbr 250,non abs .....dont think I'm talking about the Honda 300,you guys are talking about.. Bit of a novice when it comes to bikes ... Cheers

[ktm jeff]

New , the Honda is about 135,000 , but you may want to consider the much better Kawasaki Ninja or the Benelli TNT , for just a little more .

[macknife]

Can anyone tell me roughly what I should be paying for a new Honda cbr 250,non abs .....dont think I'm talking about the Honda 300,you guys are talking about.. Bit of a novice when it comes to bikes ... Cheers

There is no 'new' CBR250 non ABS. All new CBRs are 300 and come with ABS. About 135,000B