UK National lottery

[evadgib]

Can anyone please offer a definitive answer as to why a direct debit from a UK account, set up while in the country, won't be honored by Camelot in the event of a win while abroad?

& before the 'tax on the stupid' brigade turn up I'm just curious as to how the above renders participants ineligible, other than 'because we (Camelot) say so'.

Camelot themselves were unable to answer the question when I ran it past them several years ago

Edited August 4, 2015 by evadgib

[Upnotover]

The lottery website would seem to say that if you don't change anything after setting it up and leaving the UK you'll be OK;

Can I play from overseas?

No, you must be physically located in the UK or Isle of Man when buying a National Lottery game online or when setting up or amending a Direct Debit (including adding or deleting play slips and changing your payment details).

[emilymat]

The lottery website would seem to say that if you don't change anything after setting it up and leaving the UK you'll be OK;

Can I play from overseas?

No, you must be physically located in the UK or Isle of Man when buying a National Lottery game online or when setting up or amending a Direct Debit (including adding or deleting play slips and changing your payment details).

I agree. I used to do the National Lottery from Thailand during 2006/11 using a VPN and a direct debit from a UK bank.

However, I stopped once they started to really bang on about this UK actual residency on the web site. Although I had won dozens of 10 pounds etc - that were credited to my account - I worried that if I hit the jackpot there would be some more formal 'checking'.

Obviously, my plan was to book a quick business class ticket back to the UK if my numbers came up.

So, I stopped and now use premium bonds. They are quite OK about me living here providing I have a UK bank account.

I seem to remember that the UK 'residency' came about either through large European syndicates doing the lottery and also to remove competition from Euro Millions.

Also, at 2 quid a ticket and recent changes to (I think) 10 more balls in the draw, the odds are astronomical.

Like the other poster, you could always take the chance -although the Lottery will identify the location of your computer, unless the use a VPN.

Or, you could do it through a proxy in the UK - if you can trust them!!!!

Hope you win.

[evadgib]

I hadn't checked their website for several years when I posted the OP. Now that I have taken a look I note that there is no longer a FAQ section or search facility and that this appears at the bottom of each page:

Players must be 16 or over and physically located in the UK or Isle of Man.

The National Lottery website is © the Gambling Commission, which appears to be a Govt Agency.

Perhaps an FoI request might provide the answer.

Edited August 4, 2015 by evadgib

[The Fat Controller]

If you set up your account and DD when in the UK then you satisfy the rules.

Any changes must also be made whilst in the UK.

They now block ALL access from overseas IP addresses, there is no facility to even check what size prize you have won, as I found out in May.

If you play using a proxy and they can prove it, any prizes would be forfeited.

[Rob5060]

I played using a DD when I lived in the UK

When I came to live in Thailand I called them to ask if I could continue, they replied that if I had a significant win it would not be paid out before providing proof of residency in the UK

[evadgib]

Perhaps an FoI request might provide the answer.

Freedom of Information (FoI) request regarding the National lottery

I respectfully submit the following questions relating to Camelot and the UK National lottery and Euromillions:

1. Direct Debit/UK Bank Account/Brit Citizens: If a player opts to participate in the National lottery or Euromillions draws by submitting a direct debit mandate via his UK bank and completes all formalities while located within the UK what is Camelots/The legal position (2 separate questions) as to his geographic location or UK residency status in event of a big win? For ‘big win’ please read £50k or more.

2. How does Camelot and/or any interested party verify claimants (‘winners’) ID and eligibility in event of a big win? Please list all criteria or explain why it is not possible.

3. Cash Purchases @ any British outlet by Non Resident or Non Domiciled Brits: What is the position if Brits in this group buy a ticket and have a win while in UK or that wins up to 2 months after they purchased it (assuming the maximum length of time tickets can be purchased in advance remains@ 8 weeks) and are not in the Kingdom on the day of the draw?

4. Cash Purchases @ any British outlet by Foreigners legally in the Kingdom (tourists/work/EU): What is the position if anyone in this group buy a ticket and has a win while in UK or that wins up to 2 months after they purchased it (assuming the maximum length of time tickets can be purchased in advance remains@ 8 weeks) and are not in the Kingdom on the day of the draw?

5. Cash Purchases @ any British outlet by Foreigners illegally in the Kingdom (undocumented refugees or asylum seekers): What is the position if someone in this group buys a ticket and has a win while in UK?

Thank you. I’m happy to receive any reply by email at the address shown below.

Sincerely,

Edited August 5, 2015 by evadgib

[emilymat]

Perhaps an FoI request might provide the answer.

Freedom of Information (FoI) request regarding the National lottery

I respectfully submit the following questions relating to Camelot and the UK National lottery and Euromillions:

1. Direct Debit/UK Bank Account/Brit Citizens: If a player opts to participate in the National lottery or Euromillions draws by submitting a direct debit mandate via his UK bank and completes all formalities while located within the UK what is Camelots/The legal position (2 separate questions) as to his geographic location or UK residency status in event of a big win? For big win please read £50k or more.

2. How does Camelot and/or any interested party verify claimants (winners) ID and eligibility in event of a big win? Please list all criteria or explain why it is not possible.

3. Cash Purchases @ any British outlet by Non Resident or Non Domiciled Brits: What is the position if Brits in this group buy a ticket and have a win while in UK or that wins up to 2 months after they purchased it (assuming the maximum length of time tickets can be purchased in advance remains@ 8 weeks) and are not in the Kingdom on the day of the draw?

4. Cash Purchases @ any British outlet by Foreigners legally in the Kingdom (tourists/work/EU): What is the position if anyone in this group buy a ticket and has a win while in UK or that wins up to 2 months after they purchased it (assuming the maximum length of time tickets can be purchased in advance remains@ 8 weeks) and are not in the Kingdom on the day of the draw?

5. Cash Purchases @ any British outlet by Foreigners illegally in the Kingdom (undocumented refugees or asylum seekers): What is the position if someone in this group buys a ticket and has a win while in UK?

Thank you. Im happy to receive any reply by email at the address shown below.

Sincerely,

[emilymat]

Pressed the wrong button when going to reply to the post above. Very good idea and I hope you get an answer.

Couple of things to add;

1. You could buy a ticket in the UK and then fly off to Spain for a months holiday. In this instance I would suspect there would be no problem in claiming your win. This raises the question of an earlier post that quoted 'Must be physically located in the UK or IOM' Does that in fact mean resident?? It's not clear to me.

2. As I said earlier, I did the lottery by DD for many years whilst living in Thailand. For about 18 months I won nowt. I wonder what a judge would say if Camelot refused me a big win, but I argued they were willing to take my fiver a week for 18 months - presumably under false pretences. ???

As I said, no problem with Premium Bonds whatsoever.

Evadgib - I hope you get an answer to your enquiry.

[Rob5060]

When I talked to the Lottery they said I could phyically buy a ticket while in the UK but not set up a DD

[KittenKong]

The requirement is that you must be resident in and physically present in the UK when purchasing your ticket. Setting up (or modifying) a Direct Debit counts as purchasing.

Having bought the ticket (or set/modified the Direct Debit) you can then leave the country temporarily and your winnings (if any) will still be payable.

However if you become non-resident then you will not be able to claim any winnings.

I dont know what criteria they use to determine residency.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/experts/article-2729861/I-bought-lottery-ticket-online-week-I-m-holiday-Spain-Is-valid-I-win.html

"According to the National Lottery rules, you must be both a resident of and physically located in the UK or the Isle of Man when you buy a lottery ticket.

If you do not meet these requirements, any tickets you buy will be declared invalid and no prizes paid. "

[Crossy]

Mummy buys my tickets, I trust her to give me at least a sniff of 'her' winnings

[Eff1n2ret]

"According to the National Lottery rules, you must be both a resident of and physically located in the UK or the Isle of Man when you buy a lottery ticket.

If you do not meet these requirements, any tickets you buy will be declared invalid and no prizes paid. "

I think that quotation from the newspaper article isn't quite correct. "..when you buy a lottery ticket.." covers all nature of purchases. but I couldn't see anything about a residency requirement in the rules on the National Lottery website relating to buying a ticket from a retailer, when you obviously must be present in the UK to make the purchase. The residency rule does apply to having a direct debit account, which is what the OP asked about.

The reason for the rule about being physically present in the UK is to ensure that the Lottery does not infringe the gambling regulations of other countries. It seems reasonable that someone visiting the UK can buy a ticket over the counter, pay for the bet at the time and then be anywhere else in the world during the 8 weeks' duration of that ticket - the bet was made in the UK. You might argue that if someone comes to the UK and sets up a long-term bet via a direct debit he also has made the bet in the UK, but obviously they don't see it that way.

[loppylugs1]

I use vpn,sometimes Camelot recognises the vpn site so I switch it. won £129 for 4 numbers a while ago

[loppylugs1]

I use vpn,sometimes Camelot recognises the vpn site so I switch it. won £129 for 4 numbers a while ago

If you clear the warning"it looks like etc." and actually get onto the site,place your bets and win,how is anyone going to know you were in or out of the country when purchased?. No passport but other forms of ID.

anyway the lottery buys hope,hope that one can successfully escape

[evadgib]

Perhaps an FoI request might provide the answer.

Freedom of Information (FoI) request regarding the National lottery

I respectfully submit the following questions relating to Camelot and the UK National lottery and Euromillions:

1. Direct Debit/UK Bank Account/Brit Citizens: If a player opts to participate in the National lottery or Euromillions draws by submitting a direct debit mandate via his UK bank and completes all formalities while located within the UK what is Camelots/The legal position (2 separate questions) as to his geographic location or UK residency status in event of a big win? For ‘big win’ please read £50k or more.

2. How does Camelot and/or any interested party verify claimants (‘winners’) ID and eligibility in event of a big win? Please list all criteria or explain why it is not possible.

3. Cash Purchases @ any British outlet by Non Resident or Non Domiciled Brits: What is the position if Brits in this group buy a ticket and have a win while in UK or that wins up to 2 months after they purchased it (assuming the maximum length of time tickets can be purchased in advance remains@ 8 weeks) and are not in the Kingdom on the day of the draw?

4. Cash Purchases @ any British outlet by Foreigners legally in the Kingdom (tourists/work/EU): What is the position if anyone in this group buy a ticket and has a win while in UK or that wins up to 2 months after they purchased it (assuming the maximum length of time tickets can be purchased in advance remains@ 8 weeks) and are not in the Kingdom on the day of the draw?

5. Cash Purchases @ any British outlet by Foreigners illegally in the Kingdom (undocumented refugees or asylum seekers): What is the position if someone in this group buys a ticket and has a win while in UK?

Thank you. I’m happy to receive any reply by email at the address shown below.

Sincerely,

Reply from Camelot dated 21 Aug 15:

Dear <Redacted>,

I am writing in response to your email regarding your Freedom of Information request.

I must advise that Camelot UK Lotteries Limited is not subject to the Freedom of Information Act as it is not considered to be a public authority for the purpose of the act. I can however provide some of the information you have requested as it is not commercially sensitive and is publicly available. As you have numbered your questions, I will answer in the same manner to save any confusion.

1). I should explain that any UK resident who is aged 16+, has a UK residential address and a UK registered bank account can hold a National Lottery Direct Debit. A Direct Debit must be set up whilst physically located within the UK or Isle of Man and players are able to travel overseas whilst the Direct Debit is active. Players will also be able to claim any awarded prizes so long as they remain a UK resident and are not out of the UK or Isle of Man for an extended period of time; all National Lottery prizes must be claimed from within the UK or Isle of Man.

2). The full winners’ process is not discussed until a player is going through the Winners Experience. I would like to assure you that we have stringent security features in place to ensure that a winning ticket belongs to the person claiming the prize and that a person is eligible to claim the prize. Where we believe unlawful activity has taken place, we will also report the matter to the appropriate enforcement body and assist it in any investigation. The success of The National Lottery is built on player trust and Camelot will not allow that trust to be undermined in any way.

Unless the winner of a major prize of £50,000 or more opts to take full publicity and signs an agreement to that effect, Camelot has a duty of care to protect their anonymity and no further information about their win can be released into the public domain this includes the exact location of where the ticket was purchased.

3 and 4). I can confirm that ANYONE who is physically located within the UK or Isle of Man can purchase a National Lottery ticket at any of our 30,000+ retailers and will be able to claim a prize. If a ticket is purchased in advance as you have mentioned for example 8 weeks, a player is not required to be in the UK when every draw takes place, they must only be located within the UK at the time of ticket purchase.

5). I should explain that there are no restrictions to anyone purchasing a National Lottery ticket from a National Lottery retailer. A number of people from across the globe purchase National Lottery tickets whilst within the UK, these people could be here for a number of reasons either legitimately or illegitimately.

In regards to claiming prizes, I should explain that players are not required to provide any ID for wins of £500 or less. Players are only required to provide such documentation when they have won an amount of money greater than £500, if a player is unable to provide identity and address documentation we do have processes in which a player can attempt to claim a prize, however, cases of these kind are assessed on a case by case basis and do not very often occur.

I hope the information provided has been helpful and has clarified the matter. May I also take this opportunity to wish you the best of luck playing National Lottery Games in the future.

Yours sincerely

<Redacted>

National Lottery Customer Care Team

Edited August 22, 2015 by evadgib

[loppylugs1]

...but a successful VPN puts you there right in the UK,and of course has a residential address and UK bank account

Edited August 22, 2015 by loppylugs1

[emilymat]

Thanks for the info from Camelot.

It seems clear to me that even using a VPN, if you have a win of over 500 pounds there are some checks. Below that the 10 quid's etc I occasionally won using a VPN are just automatically paid back into your Lottery account, which you can then transfer to your bank if you want.

I'm pretty sure that if I won 5.3 million (say), even if I travelled back to the UK I would have to produce all sorts of evidence about UK residency -which I couldn't. Naturally I would then top myself - so I've packed in doing it. Maybe someone with a property etc in the UK may get away with it, I don't know.

That's why I've switched to Premium Bonds.

I appreciate your efforts on securing this info.

[evadgib]

How can an 8 week ticket purchased on a 2 week holiday be ok if it wins 6 weeks after the non resident purchaser left the country, yet a DD in the same draw to the same person be likely to fail on 'residency' grounds if that too happened to win?

[emilymat]

How can an 8 week ticket purchased on a 2 week holiday be ok if it wins 6 weeks after the non resident purchaser left the country, yet a DD in the same draw to the same person be likely to fail on 'residency' grounds if that too happened to win?

Confusing eh!. If you look at the reply Camelot are clear that a UK resident can purchase a DD whilst in the country and then buzz off abroad on business or holiday - providing they retain their residency.

Now, a guy like me - and I suspect others - is not a UK resident but I have a UK bank account (35 years) and my state pension is paid into it. I also have about 3 other small DD's on that account.

My (our) scenario does not seem to be covered.

I know we've thrashed this to death on here but I still believe it's the 'size' of the prize that would raise the issue. Note, the talk about player going through a 'winner experience' , which I assume is security check etc.

But, you are right. Para 1 and 3/4 can be seen as contradicting each other. I can only conclude that if you are a non-resident Syrian refugee passing through the UK and buying an 8 week ticket en route to the USA or somewhere, you are eligible for a win. Whereas I would not be.

I would love to see this tested in court by a million pound winner, who they would not pay - particularly if Camelot had been pocketing his DD for a couple of years ( when he did not win).

[loppylugs1]

There is no way they could prove one way or another where you were when the DD was set up. I have one running,obviously have to change card details every few years,do it with vpn or give friend details to do it at UK end. Fri and Tues ones I use VPN

Once won £40,000 on 37 &half pence bet

[evadgib]

How can an 8 week ticket purchased on a 2 week holiday be ok if it wins 6 weeks after the non resident purchaser left the country, yet a DD in the same draw to the same person be likely to fail on 'residency' grounds if that too happened to win?

Confusing eh!. If you look at the reply Camelot are clear that a UK resident can purchase a DD whilst in the country and then buzz off abroad on business or holiday - providing they retain their residency.

Now, a guy like me - and I suspect others - is not a UK resident but I have a UK bank account (35 years) and my state pension is paid into it. I also have about 3 other small DD's on that account.

My (our) scenario does not seem to be covered.

I know we've thrashed this to death on here but I still believe it's the 'size' of the prize that would raise the issue. Note, the talk about player going through a 'winner experience' , which I assume is security check etc.

But, you are right. Para 1 and 3/4 can be seen as contradicting each other. I can only conclude that if you are a non-resident Syrian refugee passing through the UK and buying an 8 week ticket en route to the USA or somewhere, you are eligible for a win. Whereas I would not be.

I would love to see this tested in court by a million pound winner, who they would not pay - particularly if Camelot had been pocketing his DD for a couple of years ( when he did not win).

There has been a substantial amount of goalpost realignment since Camelot first went online at the turn of the century. Their rules & regs initially allowed global participation but over the years this has been watered down to the ridiculous position highlighted above. I'm considering pursuing the enquiry a little further,inc asking HMRC (who are subject to FoI enquiries) to explain exactly how this residency lark is OK if paying by cash in UK & subsequently winning while abroad and all ready Non Resident, yet a DD in the same circumstances gets......

[Eff1n2ret]

How can an 8 week ticket purchased on a 2 week holiday be ok if it wins 6 weeks after the non resident purchaser left the country, yet a DD in the same draw to the same person be likely to fail on 'residency' grounds if that too happened to win?

Confusing eh!. If you look at the reply Camelot are clear that a UK resident can purchase a DD whilst in the country and then buzz off abroad on business or holiday - providing they retain their residency.

Now, a guy like me - and I suspect others - is not a UK resident but I have a UK bank account (35 years) and my state pension is paid into it. I also have about 3 other small DD's on that account.

My (our) scenario does not seem to be covered.

I know we've thrashed this to death on here but I still believe it's the 'size' of the prize that would raise the issue. Note, the talk about player going through a 'winner experience' , which I assume is security check etc.

But, you are right. Para 1 and 3/4 can be seen as contradicting each other. I can only conclude that if you are a non-resident Syrian refugee passing through the UK and buying an 8 week ticket en route to the USA or somewhere, you are eligible for a win. Whereas I would not be.

I would love to see this tested in court by a million pound winner, who they would not pay - particularly if Camelot had been pocketing his DD for a couple of years ( when he did not win).

There has been a substantial amount of goalpost realignment since Camelot first went online at the turn of the century. Their rules & regs initially allowed global participation but over the years this has been watered down to the ridiculous position highlighted above. I'm considering pursuing the enquiry a little further,inc asking HMRC (who are subject to FoI enquiries) to explain exactly how this residency lark is OK if paying by cash in UK & subsequently winning while abroad and all ready Non Resident, yet a DD in the same circumstances gets......

I'll be surprised if HMRC say anything other than that the lottery is nothing to do with them, and their "residency" rules are concerned with the collection of taxes.

However, as I said before, if you read the actual rules of the National Lottery which you can access via their website, there is a clear distinction between buying a ticket from a retailer and betting online via direct debit. The former has no residency requirement, and their reply "3 and 4" doesn't say that there is. The point is that the maximum duration of a ticket that you buy from the newsagents is 8 weeks, and you pay up front (and thus complete the bet) for the whole 8 weeks, so unless you go return to the UK every 8 weeks to buy another ticket, that's the limit of your bet. As I recall from using direct debit when I lived in the UK, they debit you every 3 months, and I guess they contend that at the point when they debit you, you are placing a fresh bet and if you're not in the UK at the time you are infringing the rules. The only way they can control that is to say that you should live there. It was interesting that the newspaper article quoted at the beginning of this thread advised the punter not to change his numbers while he was away on holiday, which again supports the proposition that to do so constitutes a new bet, same as paying another debit.

I'm not as desperate as some apparently are to part with my hard-earned. I used to bet £1 a time when I lived in Blighty, and only really regarded it as cheap dreams. Nowadays on my annual visits I have a punt and then buy the maximum 8 weeks just before I leave. So I can still dream, but I reckon I've saved a load by being unable to buy throughout the year.

[loppylugs1]

DD is debited from card account they hold,usually £20 a go

[evadgib]

How can an 8 week ticket purchased on a 2 week holiday be ok if it wins 6 weeks after the non resident purchaser left the country, yet a DD in the same draw to the same person be likely to fail on 'residency' grounds if that too happened to win?

Confusing eh!. If you look at the reply Camelot are clear that a UK resident can purchase a DD whilst in the country and then buzz off abroad on business or holiday - providing they retain their residency.

Now, a guy like me - and I suspect others - is not a UK resident but I have a UK bank account (35 years) and my state pension is paid into it. I also have about 3 other small DD's on that account.

My (our) scenario does not seem to be covered.

I know we've thrashed this to death on here but I still believe it's the 'size' of the prize that would raise the issue. Note, the talk about player going through a 'winner experience' , which I assume is security check etc.

But, you are right. Para 1 and 3/4 can be seen as contradicting each other. I can only conclude that if you are a non-resident Syrian refugee passing through the UK and buying an 8 week ticket en route to the USA or somewhere, you are eligible for a win. Whereas I would not be.

I would love to see this tested in court by a million pound winner, who they would not pay - particularly if Camelot had been pocketing his DD for a couple of years ( when he did not win).

There has been a substantial amount of goalpost realignment since Camelot first went online at the turn of the century. Their rules & regs initially allowed global participation but over the years this has been watered down to the ridiculous position highlighted above. I'm considering pursuing the enquiry a little further,inc asking HMRC (who are subject to FoI enquiries) to explain exactly how this residency lark is OK if paying by cash in UK & subsequently winning while abroad and all ready Non Resident, yet a DD in the same circumstances gets......

As I recall from using direct debit when I lived in the UK, they debit you every 3 months, and I guess they contend that at the point when they debit you, you are placing a fresh bet and if you're not in the UK at the time you are infringing the rules. The only way they can control that is to say that you should live there. It was interesting that the newspaper article quoted at the beginning of this thread advised the punter not to change his numbers while he was away on holiday, which again supports the proposition that to do so constitutes a new bet, same as paying another debit.

Understood, but seemingly knocked into a cocked hat by the fact that Brits can play EM online via any outlet except Camelot without any such concerns.

[phrodan]

Euromillions rules - you can't play games more than four weeks in advance.

Camelot rules - you can't play games more than eight weeks in advance.

Rules for both - you cannot interfere with number selection when out of the UK. And as you know, you can't play from overseas.

So that renders expats disqualified after they leave the country, as per the time limits above.

There was a case a few years ago of four big winners who were in a syndicate. One of the guys was on holiday in Portugal when the ticket won, and it was clear that he was there as the ticket had been bought after he left the country, and the syndicate leader offered the info that there was a fourth member overseas.

The guy flew back in, and Camelot accepted that the guy was a genuine syndicate member with a history of paying his dues - and the syndicate could prove there history too. Camelot made the correct judgement and paid out. To invalidate a winning ticket because one member was on holiday would have been cruel.

I know one guy that was a big winner. He had to explain where and when he bought the ticket. Those simple questions trip some people up - including this thief -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-19318742

Note the simple lie about where he bought the ticket resulted in Camelot tracking CCTV footage from the Tesco store where the ticket was actually bought. The big winner I know also had to prove he was resident in the UK using utility bills etc. In his case, that was a temporary problem as he was sleeping on his sisters couch due to divorce. The problem was easily solved by a call to his NHS employer. This, incidentally, was the procedure they put a guy through who called the National Lottery winners line from a UK land line number two hours after the draw.

He didn't mention his passport being checked - I don't know if they would do that, but the lotto folk aren't stupid. You're going to find it hard to explain your retirement visa stamps if they check it.

Edited August 23, 2015 by phrodan

[evadgib]

Perhaps an FoI request might provide the answer.

Freedom of Information (FoI) request regarding the National lottery

I respectfully submit the following questions relating to Camelot and the UK National lottery and Euromillions:

1. Direct Debit/UK Bank Account/Brit Citizens: If a player opts to participate in the National lottery or Euromillions draws by submitting a direct debit mandate via his UK bank and completes all formalities while located within the UK what is Camelots/The legal position (2 separate questions) as to his geographic location or UK residency status in event of a big win? For ‘big win’ please read £50k or more.

2. How does Camelot and/or any interested party verify claimants (‘winners’) ID and eligibility in event of a big win? Please list all criteria or explain why it is not possible.

3. Cash Purchases @ any British outlet by Non Resident or Non Domiciled Brits: What is the position if Brits in this group buy a ticket and have a win while in UK or that wins up to 2 months after they purchased it (assuming the maximum length of time tickets can be purchased in advance remains@ 8 weeks) and are not in the Kingdom on the day of the draw?

4. Cash Purchases @ any British outlet by Foreigners legally in the Kingdom (tourists/work/EU): What is the position if anyone in this group buy a ticket and has a win while in UK or that wins up to 2 months after they purchased it (assuming the maximum length of time tickets can be purchased in advance remains@ 8 weeks) and are not in the Kingdom on the day of the draw?

5. Cash Purchases @ any British outlet by Foreigners illegally in the Kingdom (undocumented refugees or asylum seekers): What is the position if someone in this group buys a ticket and has a win while in UK?

Thank you. I’m happy to receive any reply by email at the address shown below.

Sincerely,

Reply from Camelot dated 21 Aug 15:

Dear <Redacted>,

I am writing in response to your email regarding your Freedom of Information request.

I must advise that Camelot UK Lotteries Limited is not subject to the Freedom of Information Act as it is not considered to be a public authority for the purpose of the act. I can however provide some of the information you have requested as it is not commercially sensitive and is publicly available. As you have numbered your questions, I will answer in the same manner to save any confusion.

1). I should explain that any UK resident who is aged 16+, has a UK residential address and a UK registered bank account can hold a National Lottery Direct Debit. A Direct Debit must be set up whilst physically located within the UK or Isle of Man and players are able to travel overseas whilst the Direct Debit is active. Players will also be able to claim any awarded prizes so long as they remain a UK resident and are not out of the UK or Isle of Man for an extended period of time; all National Lottery prizes must be claimed from within the UK or Isle of Man.

2). The full winners’ process is not discussed until a player is going through the Winners Experience. I would like to assure you that we have stringent security features in place to ensure that a winning ticket belongs to the person claiming the prize and that a person is eligible to claim the prize. Where we believe unlawful activity has taken place, we will also report the matter to the appropriate enforcement body and assist it in any investigation. The success of The National Lottery is built on player trust and Camelot will not allow that trust to be undermined in any way.

Unless the winner of a major prize of £50,000 or more opts to take full publicity and signs an agreement to that effect, Camelot has a duty of care to protect their anonymity and no further information about their win can be released into the public domain this includes the exact location of where the ticket was purchased.

3 and 4). I can confirm that ANYONE who is physically located within the UK or Isle of Man can purchase a National Lottery ticket at any of our 30,000+ retailers and will be able to claim a prize. If a ticket is purchased in advance as you have mentioned for example 8 weeks, a player is not required to be in the UK when every draw takes place, they must only be located within the UK at the time of ticket purchase.

5). I should explain that there are no restrictions to anyone purchasing a National Lottery ticket from a National Lottery retailer. A number of people from across the globe purchase National Lottery tickets whilst within the UK, these people could be here for a number of reasons either legitimately or illegitimately.

In regards to claiming prizes, I should explain that players are not required to provide any ID for wins of £500 or less. Players are only required to provide such documentation when they have won an amount of money greater than £500, if a player is unable to provide identity and address documentation we do have processes in which a player can attempt to claim a prize, however, cases of these kind are assessed on a case by case basis and do not very often occur.

I hope the information provided has been helpful and has clarified the matter. May I also take this opportunity to wish you the best of luck playing National Lottery Games in the future.

Yours sincerely

<Redacted>

National Lottery Customer Care Team

Reply from the Gambling Commission received 08 Sep 15

Thank you for your request for information in relation to the National Lottery.

The Gambling Commission is responsible for licensing and regulating the National Lottery, ensuring the interests of participants are protected and maximising returns for Good Causes. The Commission has licensed Camelot UK Lotteries Ltd (Camelot) as the operator of the National Lottery.

The questions you have asked relate to the operation of the National Lottery which is managed by Camelot. Camelot publish game rules for draw based games played on-line as well as purchases through retailers so this information is reasonably accessible by other means and therefore exempt on the basis of section 21 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (i.e. this information is publically available). The practical application of these rules is a matter for Camelot.

If you require a legal interpretation of the rules that are published, you may wish to consider seeking independent legal advice.

Please find our response to your questions below.

1. Direct Debit/UK Bank Account/Brit Citizens: If a player opts to participate in the National lottery or Euromillions draws by submitting a direct debit mandate via his UK bank and completes all formalities while located within the UK what is Camelots/The legal position (2 separate questions) as to his geographic location or UK residency status in event of a big win? For ‘big win’ please read £50k or more.

GC: Camelot, as the operator of the National Lottery, determines the rules for playing draw based games and these are available here:

https://www.national-lottery.co.uk/account-terms#onlinerules

https://www.national-lottery.co.uk/account-terms#int_playing_by_direct_debit_2

The primary legislation governing the National Lottery is available here: http://www.natlotcomm.gov.uk/regulating-the-lottery/statutory-framework/primary-legislation.html

If you have a specific question regarding Camelot’s position in certain circumstances, you may wish to direct this question to them. Camelot can be contacted via the following link: https://www.national-lottery.co.uk/contact-us?icid=bsp:na:tx

2. How does Camelot and/or any interested party verify claimants (‘winners’) ID and eligibility in event of a big win? Please list all criteria or explain why it is not possible.

GC: Camelot seek to verify player’s identify when accounts are opened, as detailed here: https://www.national-lottery.co.uk/account-terms?icid=bsp:na:tx#int_account_registration_1

To verify a winner’s claim, Camelot may request original identification documents as well as evidence of residency in the UK or Isle of Man.

3. Cash Purchases @ any British outlet by Non Resident or Non Domiciled Brits: What is the position if Brits in this group buy a ticket and have a win while in UK or that wins up to 2 months after they purchased it (assuming the maximum length of time tickets can be purchased in advance remains@ 8 weeks) and are not in the Kingdom on the day of the draw?

GC: The rules for retailer purchases are available here:

https://www.national-lottery.co.uk/games/in-store/rules#int_claiming_a_prize

4. Cash Purchases @ any British outlet by Foreigners legally in the Kingdom (tourists/work/EU): What is the position if anyone in this group buy a ticket and has a win while in UK or that wins up to 2 months after they purchased it (assuming the maximum length of time tickets can be purchased in advance remains@ 8 weeks) and are not in the Kingdom on the day of the draw?

GC: Please see question 3.

5. Cash Purchases @ any British outlet by Foreigners illegally in the Kingdom (undocumented refugees or asylum seekers): What is the position if someone in this group buys a ticket and has a win while in UK?

GC: We do not hold this information.

Review of the decision

If you are unhappy with the service you have received in relation to your Freedom of Information request and wish to make a complaint or request a review of our decision, you should write to FOI Team, Gambling Commission, 4th floor, Victoria Square House, Victoria Square, Birmingham, B2 4BP.

If you are not content with the outcome of your complaint, you may apply directly to the Information Commissioner (ICO) for a decision. Generally, the ICO cannot make a decision unless you have exhausted the complaints procedure provided by the Gambling Commission. The ICO can be contacted at: The Information Commissioner’s Office, Wycliffe House, Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire SK9 5AF.

Kind regards

<Redacted>

Edited September 8, 2015 by evadgib

[evadgib]

I'm happy for the thread to be locked at this point as I seem to have gone full circle. It does however serve as an example re how to obtain Govt data which might prove useful to others in threads that have popped up elsewhere during its lifetime

Eva +

Edited September 8, 2015 by evadgib

[metisdead]

As per request, topic is now closed.