NLA to vote on August 14 whether to impeach 248 ex-MPs

[jayboy]

I don't care too much about this.

What I really want to know is why the 310 MPs who voted for it are not being prosecuted for the most disgraceful abuse of power I have ever witnessed when they passed the amnesty bill.

And while we're talking about prosecutions, what happened about the terrorists who murdered the protestors ?. Is there even an investigation going on for that ?. Or are they scared because the red-shirts will get even more shirty if they are publicly accused and say how much it has damaged 'reconciliation' ?.

Thais should not be surprised that no other country takes them seriously.

I'm not surprised this topic has provoked a wave of whataboutery from the usual suspects.No entirely sane person could endorse the proposed prosecution under a non existent constitution for an attempt to make parliament more democratic.

[tbthailand]

I really do hope that the 248 former MP's will be impeached.

Regardless of any political persuasions the guilty have to be punished.

The guilty being punished would be great.

But that's not what's happening here.

The innocent are being persecuted.

Fear not though my friend, for no matter what extremes the Generals and their cronies stoop to, Thaksin will still win the next election in a landslide.

In the long run, justice always prevails!

Since the 248 MPs are the ones involved in the attempted modification of the constitution, since the Constitutional Court ruled that move illegal (in November 2013), it would seem the guilty are being asked to be accountable. Being held accountable is persecution in your eyes?

As for punishment, what punishment?

in my country, if congress (tries to) pass a law which is judged unconstitutional by the supreme court, then, get this, .... drum roll please...

nothing happens to congress...

This impeachment process is completely nuts on so many levels...

[rubl]

I really do hope that the 248 former MP's will be impeached.

Regardless of any political persuasions the guilty have to be punished.

The guilty being punished would be great.

But that's not what's happening here.

The innocent are being persecuted.

Fear not though my friend, for no matter what extremes the Generals and their cronies stoop to, Thaksin will still win the next election in a landslide.

In the long run, justice always prevails!

Since the 248 MPs are the ones involved in the attempted modification of the constitution, since the Constitutional Court ruled that move illegal (in November 2013), it would seem the guilty are being asked to be accountable. Being held accountable is persecution in your eyes?

As for punishment, what punishment?

in my country, if congress (tries to) pass a law which is judged unconstitutional by the supreme court, then, get this, .... drum roll please...

nothing happens to congress...

This impeachment process is completely nuts on so many levels...

and that's why America has this hymn "God (please) bless America" ?

It may surprise you, but we're discussing the Thai government here. What may seem nuts to you for whatever reasons is simply application of laws, even here in Thailand.

[rubl]

I don't care too much about this.

What I really want to know is why the 310 MPs who voted for it are not being prosecuted for the most disgraceful abuse of power I have ever witnessed when they passed the amnesty bill.

And while we're talking about prosecutions, what happened about the terrorists who murdered the protestors ?. Is there even an investigation going on for that ?. Or are they scared because the red-shirts will get even more shirty if they are publicly accused and say how much it has damaged 'reconciliation' ?.

Thais should not be surprised that no other country takes them seriously.

I'm not surprised this topic has provoked a wave of whataboutery from the usual suspects.No entirely sane person could endorse the proposed prosecution under a non existent constitution for an attempt to make parliament more democratic.

Absolutely!

The impeachment because of illegal actions against a no longer valid constitution seems so overdone. As if the law is so important.

By the way, what prosecution? Also what 'more democratic' ? Having political families being able to corner both House and senate? Part of the Senate appointed with strict requirements on the appointees (in line with requirements to MPs). That sounds a bit better than having a House of Lords wouldn't you say so?

[Bodene]

All these totally ignorant posts don't seem to realise that thier impeachment has nothing to do with the composition of the Senate or the costitution. The democrats supported the amendment to make the senate fully elected. The tMP's facing impeachment tried to sneak a self servibg clause to extend thier tenure and allow thier children and spouses to become senators so they could control the senate much in the same way as they did with the amnesty fiasco. They deserve to be immpeached.

Why? Because you didn't like it?

One of the jobs of a government is to amend laws in accordance with what they determine the public interest to be. That's what they're elected to do. If the opposition have the numbers they can defeat it. That's how democracy works. A coup d'etat is not the way democracy works and the rest of the civilised world is expressing their disdain, as we speak and as Mr Prayuth is finding out to his cost.

I don't see the problem.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Bodene

[jayboy]

I don't care too much about this.

What I really want to know is why the 310 MPs who voted for it are not being prosecuted for the most disgraceful abuse of power I have ever witnessed when they passed the amnesty bill.

And while we're talking about prosecutions, what happened about the terrorists who murdered the protestors ?. Is there even an investigation going on for that ?. Or are they scared because the red-shirts will get even more shirty if they are publicly accused and say how much it has damaged 'reconciliation' ?.

Thais should not be surprised that no other country takes them seriously.

I'm not surprised this topic has provoked a wave of whataboutery from the usual suspects.No entirely sane person could endorse the proposed prosecution under a non existent constitution for an attempt to make parliament more democratic.

Absolutely!

The impeachment because of illegal actions against a no longer valid constitution seems so overdone. As if the law is so important.

By the way, what prosecution? Also what 'more democratic' ? Having political families being able to corner both House and senate? Part of the Senate appointed with strict requirements on the appointees (in line with requirements to MPs). That sounds a bit better than having a House of Lords wouldn't you say so?

Spare us the mindless excuses.There may be an audience on the forum for this kind of drivel.I hear them all the time from my prosperous but myopic Sino Thai middle class neighbours.

[billd766]

I really do hope that the 248 former MP's will be impeached.

Regardless of any political persuasions the guilty have to be punished.

The guilty being punished would be great.

But that's not what's happening here.

The innocent are being persecuted.

Fear not though my friend, for no matter what extremes the Generals and their cronies stoop to, Thaksin will still win the next election in a landslide.

In the long run, justice always prevails!

Sorry to prick your bubble but Thaksin, being a convicted criminal is not actually allowed to stand in ANY election. Furthermore even if he were allowed to stand he would have to be in Thailand to do so.

Should he return (extremely unlikely) he would first have to serve his sentence and face a further 15 more serious charges as well. He still would not be allowed to stand for parliament unless he was given a royal pardon, had served at least half his sentence and was truly repentant.

In Thaksin's cases justice will only prevail when he has enough courage to return to Thailand and face justice.

If Thaksin believes he is innocent why was there an attempt to bribe the judges with 2,000,000 baht by his lawyers.

The only person stopping Thaksin returning to Thailand is Thaksin himself.

I do wish people like you would do a little research before you post.

[tbthailand]

The guilty being punished would be great.

But that's not what's happening here.

The innocent are being persecuted.

Fear not though my friend, for no matter what extremes the Generals and their cronies stoop to, Thaksin will still win the next election in a landslide.

In the long run, justice always prevails!

Since the 248 MPs are the ones involved in the attempted modification of the constitution, since the Constitutional Court ruled that move illegal (in November 2013), it would seem the guilty are being asked to be accountable. Being held accountable is persecution in your eyes?

As for punishment, what punishment?

in my country, if congress (tries to) pass a law which is judged unconstitutional by the supreme court, then, get this, .... drum roll please...

nothing happens to congress...

This impeachment process is completely nuts on so many levels...

and that's why America has this hymn "God (please) bless America" ?

It may surprise you, but we're discussing the Thai government here. What may seem nuts to you for whatever reasons is simply application of laws, even here in Thailand.

it may surprise you that people refer to other countries from time to time while discussing politics in Thailand.

As for laws in Thailand, ah, but that is the point, isn't it,

under what law are these MPs to be impeached?

Get real rubl, this isn't about 'application of laws'. There is no law that allows the current group to impeach the last group...

As a side note, you should also figure out some time that when a court in Thailand says a law passed by the legislature is not constitutional, that does not mean that the legislature has committed a crime...

[billd766]

I really do hope that the 248 former MP's will be impeached.

Regardless of any political persuasions the guilty have to be punished.

The guilty being punished would be great.

But that's not what's happening here.

The innocent are being persecuted.

Fear not though my friend, for no matter what extremes the Generals and their cronies stoop to, Thaksin will still win the next election in a landslide.

In the long run, justice always prevails!

Since the 248 MPs are the ones involved in the attempted modification of the constitution, since the Constitutional Court ruled that move illegal (in November 2013), it would seem the guilty are being asked to be accountable. Being held accountable is persecution in your eyes?

As for punishment, what punishment?

in my country, if congress (tries to) pass a law which is judged unconstitutional by the supreme court, then, get this, .... drum roll please...

nothing happens to congress...

This impeachment process is completely nuts on so many levels...

If it is such in your country have you considered that Thailand may not be the best place for you to be living?

After all in Thailand your personal opinion, like mine, means nothing to the Thai government or the Thai people, you like me, have no vote and cannot sway the authorities. I am quite happy to let the Thai people run Thailand in their own way without the benefit of my advice which would be ignored anyway. The difference between us is that I have accepted long ago that I cannot change the attitude that Thais have, nor would I want to try.

Thailand after all does belong to ALL the Thai people and I firmly believe that it is their chioce to do what they want to do and not what perhaps I would like them to do which may not be the same thing.

I live in rural Thailand with my Thai wife and son and I am quite happy to live this way.

How about you?

[phoenixdoglover]

Regarding impeachment:

- the words "impeach" or "impeachment" do not appear in the English language translation of the Draft Charter. made available in April this year.

The Draft Charter contains,

Section 100. Members of the House of Representatives or senators of not less than one‐fourth of the total number of the existing number of each House shall, if they are of opinion that an act or behavior of any member of the House they are members is detrimental to the dignity of the membership of the House of Representatives or senator, have the right to lodge with the President of the House of which they are members a complaint requesting the House of Representatives or the Senate to pass a resolution removing such member from office.

The resolution of the House of Representatives or the Senate under paragraph one shall be made by the votes of not less than three‐fourths of the total number of the existing members of each House

Thus there is a provision allowing for removal (only) of a current member.

In Part 2 of the Draft Charter, House of Representatives, Sections 103 to 120, there is no provision for the House to impeach or otherwise take action against a person who is not a member of the national assembly.

In Part 3 of the Draft Charter, Senate, Sections 121 to 130 there is no provision for the Senate to impeach or otherwise take action against a person who is not a member of the national assembly.

In Part 4 of the Draft Charter, Provisions Applicable to Both Houses, Sections 131 to 144 there is no provision for either House or Senate to impeach or otherwise take action against a person who is not a member of the national assembly, expect that a Committee can compel a person to provide documents or to appear for questioning. But there is no power granted for the Committee to take any punitive legal action against a person.

I had been assuming that the current government would regard the Draft Charter as a model for conduct.

Given the total lack of justification in the Charter for the current actions by the NLA regarding "impeachment" of former members of the House, one has to ask, on what legal basis is the NLA doing this?

Edited August 8, 2015 by phoenixdoglover

[bamnutsak]

on what legal basis is the NLA doing this?

What does "legal", or "illegal" really mean in Thailand? Depends on who's in power, and who controls the Judiciary?

I'm not sure but I think that "Criminal Law", Title II, Chapter II "MALFEASANCE IN OFFICE" is being applied in this case? But who knows? They have so many laws, courts, commissions, committees they could probably find any number of "laws" to selectively apply?

From an earlier story:

The decision by the NACC means that the senators will be forced to face malfeasance charges in the Supreme Court of Justice's Criminal Division for Persons Holding Political Positions. A conviction would result in an automatic five-year ban from politics.

If it were me I'd take the ban now. There won't be any elections for five years anyway.

Edited August 8, 2015 by bamnutsak

[tbthailand]

The guilty being punished would be great.

But that's not what's happening here.

The innocent are being persecuted.

Fear not though my friend, for no matter what extremes the Generals and their cronies stoop to, Thaksin will still win the next election in a landslide.

In the long run, justice always prevails!

Since the 248 MPs are the ones involved in the attempted modification of the constitution, since the Constitutional Court ruled that move illegal (in November 2013), it would seem the guilty are being asked to be accountable. Being held accountable is persecution in your eyes?

As for punishment, what punishment?

in my country, if congress (tries to) pass a law which is judged unconstitutional by the supreme court, then, get this, .... drum roll please...

nothing happens to congress...

This impeachment process is completely nuts on so many levels...

If it is such in your country have you considered that Thailand may not be the best place for you to be living?

After all in Thailand your personal opinion, like mine, means nothing to the Thai government or the Thai people, you like me, have no vote and cannot sway the authorities. I am quite happy to let the Thai people run Thailand in their own way without the benefit of my advice which would be ignored anyway. The difference between us is that I have accepted long ago that I cannot change the attitude that Thais have, nor would I want to try.

Thailand after all does belong to ALL the Thai people and I firmly believe that it is their chioce to do what they want to do and not what perhaps I would like them to do which may not be the same thing.

I live in rural Thailand with my Thai wife and son and I am quite happy to live this way.

How about you?

not sure what you, your wife, and your son living in rural Thailand has to do with this "NLA" voting to impeach MPs of a previous government or why that might lead you to recommend that I move.

Thailand after all does belong to ALL the Thai people

well, I believe that too, but that is far from the reality of the situation in Thailand today.

[JAG]

Thailand is most emphatically not being run in the way that most Thais wish it to be. They have been denied the right to choose how it is to be run.

It may belong to all the Thai people, but it is being run by and for a small cabal who have usurped power They have no interest in the wishes or rights of the rest of the Thai people.

[rubl]

I don't care too much about this.

What I really want to know is why the 310 MPs who voted for it are not being prosecuted for the most disgraceful abuse of power I have ever witnessed when they passed the amnesty bill.

And while we're talking about prosecutions, what happened about the terrorists who murdered the protestors ?. Is there even an investigation going on for that ?. Or are they scared because the red-shirts will get even more shirty if they are publicly accused and say how much it has damaged 'reconciliation' ?.

Thais should not be surprised that no other country takes them seriously.

I'm not surprised this topic has provoked a wave of whataboutery from the usual suspects.No entirely sane person could endorse the proposed prosecution under a non existent constitution for an attempt to make parliament more democratic.

Absolutely!

The impeachment because of illegal actions against a no longer valid constitution seems so overdone. As if the law is so important.

By the way, what prosecution? Also what 'more democratic' ? Having political families being able to corner both House and senate? Part of the Senate appointed with strict requirements on the appointees (in line with requirements to MPs). That sounds a bit better than having a House of Lords wouldn't you say so?

Spare us the mindless excuses.There may be an audience on the forum for this kind of drivel.I hear them all the time from my prosperous but myopic Sino Thai middle class neighbours.

Do I understand correctly that in your own succinct and drôle Cambridge Don way you try to tell me you disagree with me?

[rubl]

Interesting isn't it that all seem to have forgotten the discussions when the NLA impeached Ms. Yingluck. Same reasoning for and against and still legal as well whatever posters here may think.

[rubl]

Since the 248 MPs are the ones involved in the attempted modification of the constitution, since the Constitutional Court ruled that move illegal (in November 2013), it would seem the guilty are being asked to be accountable. Being held accountable is persecution in your eyes?

As for punishment, what punishment?

in my country, if congress (tries to) pass a law which is judged unconstitutional by the supreme court, then, get this, .... drum roll please...

nothing happens to congress...

This impeachment process is completely nuts on so many levels...

If it is such in your country have you considered that Thailand may not be the best place for you to be living?

After all in Thailand your personal opinion, like mine, means nothing to the Thai government or the Thai people, you like me, have no vote and cannot sway the authorities. I am quite happy to let the Thai people run Thailand in their own way without the benefit of my advice which would be ignored anyway. The difference between us is that I have accepted long ago that I cannot change the attitude that Thais have, nor would I want to try.

Thailand after all does belong to ALL the Thai people and I firmly believe that it is their chioce to do what they want to do and not what perhaps I would like them to do which may not be the same thing.

I live in rural Thailand with my Thai wife and son and I am quite happy to live this way.

How about you?

not sure what you, your wife, and your son living in rural Thailand has to do with this "NLA" voting to impeach MPs of a previous government or why that might lead you to recommend that I move.

Thailand after all does belong to ALL the Thai people

well, I believe that too, but that is far from the reality of the situation in Thailand today.

True, I would even go further than that. It has never at all been true in Thailand. As lildragon so correctly stated in another thread

"(Suthep) is the don of the south going against the don of the north/north east. Thailand is still pretty medieval with warring clans."

[Bodene]

Interesting isn't it that all seem to have forgotten the discussions when the NLA impeached Ms. Yingluck. Same reasoning for and against and still legal as well whatever posters here may think.

I suppose it didn't help having someone who can decide what the law is and what it isn't. Not really civilised though. Very mediaeval.

[billd766]

Thailand is most emphatically not being run in the way that most Thais wish it to be. They have been denied the right to choose how it is to be run.

It may belong to all the Thai people, but it is being run by and for a small cabal who have usurped power They have no interest in the wishes or rights of the rest of the Thai people.

How do you KNOW Thailand is not being run the way most Thais wish it to be?

Have you done an independent survey of perhaps 10,000 Thais across all 76 provinces?

At the moment all I see is your personal opinion which is that of a non Thai supposing to speak for all Thais.

IMPO having talked to a few local Thais here in rural Khampaeng Phet, farmers and shopkeepers, they don't really care who is running the country as long as someone is.

They know that whichever party is in power, be it PTP, Democrats, Army or any other political party, that after the election they will be screwed over and ignored until the next election. The only good thing for them in the run up to the election is the money they get from most political parties and the village parties paid for in part by the politicians, local, regional and national.

What they care about is a roof over their heads, food on the table, a job, if they are farmers they want more rain so that they can harvest whatever crop they are growing, and they pray that their kids are not into drugs or anything like that.

Now that is my opinion and observation and which carries equal weight with yours with the Thai people.

Nothing at all.

[jayboy]

Thailand is most emphatically not being run in the way that most Thais wish it to be. They have been denied the right to choose how it is to be run.

It may belong to all the Thai people, but it is being run by and for a small cabal who have usurped power They have no interest in the wishes or rights of the rest of the Thai people.

How do you KNOW Thailand is not being run the way most Thais wish it to be?

Have you done an independent survey of perhaps 10,000 Thais across all 76 provinces?

At the moment all I see is your personal opinion which is that of a non Thai supposing to speak for all Thais.

IMPO having talked to a few local Thais here in rural Khampaeng Phet, farmers and shopkeepers, they don't really care who is running the country as long as someone is.

They know that whichever party is in power, be it PTP, Democrats, Army or any other political party, that after the election they will be screwed over and ignored until the next election. The only good thing for them in the run up to the election is the money they get from most political parties and the village parties paid for in part by the politicians, local, regional and national.

What they care about is a roof over their heads, food on the table, a job, if they are farmers they want more rain so that they can harvest whatever crop they are growing, and they pray that their kids are not into drugs or anything like that.

Now that is my opinion and observation and which carries equal weight with yours with the Thai people.

Nothing at all.

No I am afraid it is you that is in error.In any event though all should have the right to speak it is a common error that one man's opinion is as good as another's.To believe otherwise would give equal ranking to the ignorant and the foolish.

Talking to a few farmers means nothing even taking into account your limitations in communicating.Given the current repression it's not possible to have a credible opinion survey.But we do know the regime is terrified of free and fair elections.Not difficult to draw the relevant conclusions.

While all voters want a better life for themselves and families, your analysis is wrong headed and old fashioned.Ordinary Thais are now generally very politicised and the weight you give to vote buying shows how badly informed and out of date you are.

I don't blame you for your errors.These are common currency among some.If you can grasp that Thais have in the last decade become politically sophisticated that would be the first step to letting go of some of your naive misconceptions.

[faranginthailandonly]

Nice said!

[billd766]

Thailand is most emphatically not being run in the way that most Thais wish it to be. They have been denied the right to choose how it is to be run.

It may belong to all the Thai people, but it is being run by and for a small cabal who have usurped power They have no interest in the wishes or rights of the rest of the Thai people.

How do you KNOW Thailand is not being run the way most Thais wish it to be?

Have you done an independent survey of perhaps 10,000 Thais across all 76 provinces?

At the moment all I see is your personal opinion which is that of a non Thai supposing to speak for all Thais.

IMPO having talked to a few local Thais here in rural Khampaeng Phet, farmers and shopkeepers, they don't really care who is running the country as long as someone is.

They know that whichever party is in power, be it PTP, Democrats, Army or any other political party, that after the election they will be screwed over and ignored until the next election. The only good thing for them in the run up to the election is the money they get from most political parties and the village parties paid for in part by the politicians, local, regional and national.

What they care about is a roof over their heads, food on the table, a job, if they are farmers they want more rain so that they can harvest whatever crop they are growing, and they pray that their kids are not into drugs or anything like that.

Now that is my opinion and observation and which carries equal weight with yours with the Thai people.

Nothing at all.

No I am afraid it is you that is in error.In any event though all should have the right to speak it is a common error that one man's opinion is as good as another's.To believe otherwise would give equal ranking to the ignorant and the foolish.

Talking to a few farmers means nothing even taking into account your limitations in communicating.Given the current repression it's not possible to have a credible opinion survey.But we do know the regime is terrified of free and fair elections.Not difficult to draw the relevant conclusions.

While all voters want a better life for themselves and families, your analysis is wrong headed and old fashioned.Ordinary Thais are now generally very politicised and the weight you give to vote buying shows how badly informed and out of date you are.

I don't blame you for your errors.These are common currency among some.If you can grasp that Thais have in the last decade become politically sophisticated that would be the first step to letting go of some of your naive misconceptions.

They are not errors as they are people who I talk with on a daily and weekly basis.

quote from you "In any event though all should have the right to speak it is a common error that one man's opinion is as good as another's.To believe otherwise would give equal ranking to the ignorant and the foolish." So who in your opinion has the right to decide which opinion is right, you, me, any other poster on TVF, Somchai down the road, politicians, the PM? Who!

quote "While all voters want a better life for themselves and families, your analysis is wrong headed and old fashioned.Ordinary Thais are now generally very politicised and the weight you give to vote buying shows how badly informed and out of date you are."

How many "ordinary Thais" do you speak with on a daily basis and how do YOU define who is ordinary or not? How do YOU know that "ordinary" Thais are politicised now? Have you done a survey, if so, where and when and across how many people? What were the questions? Have you published it.

quote "I don't blame you for your errors.These are common currency among some.If you can grasp that Thais have in the last decade become politically sophisticated that would be the first step to letting go of some of your naive misconceptions."

Thank you for not blaming me for my errors, but why are they errors? In your mind and opinion perhaps, but certainly not in mine. Can you show me anywhere where Thais have become more politically sophisticated? Perhaps in the cities but not that much in rural Thailand where the majority of Thais actually live. I don't have any naive misconceptions at least in my opinion, but then again I know myself a lot better than you do.

It is your opinion against mine and as I said earlier my opinion and yours cxarry equal weight as does everybody else who posts their opinions here on TVF.

The fact that most Thai people never read this forum and no Thai people care what we think should give you a clue as to what our collective opinions are worth in Thailand.

[MaxLee]

I really do hope that the 248 former MP's will be impeached.

Regardless of any political persuasions the guilty have to be punished.

Well,...

"NLA to vote on August 14 whether to impeach 248 ex-MPs"

whereas "whether" means either never or,... inactive post

[rubl]

Interesting isn't it that all seem to have forgotten the discussions when the NLA impeached Ms. Yingluck. Same reasoning for and against and still legal as well whatever posters here may think.

I suppose it didn't help having someone who can decide what the law is and what it isn't. Not really civilised though. Very mediaeval.

I doubt you are able to clarify your insinuations.

As for civilised, you're allowed to sprout your stuff here, aren't you?

[Bodene]

I really do hope that the 248 former MP's will be impeached.

Regardless of any political persuasions the guilty have to be punished.

The guilty being punished would be great.

But that's not what's happening here.

The innocent are being persecuted.

Fear not though my friend, for no matter what extremes the Generals and their cronies stoop to, Thaksin will still win the next election in a landslide.

In the long run, justice always prevails!

Since the 248 MPs are the ones involved in the attempted modification of the constitution, since the Constitutional Court ruled that move illegal (in November 2013), it would seem the guilty are being asked to be accountable. Being held accountable is persecution in your eyes?

As for punishment, what punishment?

The Surayud government assured the Thai people that the last military coup government's Constitution could be altered later, if only they would pass it then. You remember Surayud, he was the guy with the illegal estate at Kao Yai that he abandoned because of the bad publicity and the fingers that were pointing where nobody wanted fingers pointing. And he was seriously concerned that the Thai people were about to reject his Constitution.

Fast forward 7 or 8 years. The Constitutional Court acted on a petition from the Democrat Party, and chose to interpret 'amending the constitution in respect of the election of the Senate members; as 'an attempt to 'overthrow the system of government with the King as Head of State'.

Yingluck's government should have seen that for what is was, especially when the same court stated that 'Thailand did not need high-speed trains'. Blind Freddy could have seen what was happening and what was coming, and they should have abrogated the Constitution, arrested then shot the conspirators for treason, and purged the elite networks. That's what the elites were frightened would happen so they planned all the steps in remarkable detail and great care, hoping the Thai people could never be able to work out what was happening or what had been done. In that respect they were evidently right.

Yingluck should have recognised and stopped it then - especially after the last 3-ring circus, (the one that resulted in Newin Chidchob jumping the fence to join the Democrat's little soiree, and in the process securing for himself an acquittal on the bamboo sapling scandal prosecution). But I seriously think Yingluck did not see a coup coming, although it had been rumoured well in advance. She also failed to recognise whose hands were making the marionettes dance and that was her second major stupidity.

Everything since then has been directed only at making sure that Thaksin and his disciples never again hold power, and even if they do by some misadventure, that they can be neutered by a hostile constitution.

That's all they want... everything else is just camouflage.

Nobody should under-estimate the determination of these people to maintain a feudal Thailand, which is one of the reasons they have (in my opinion) deliberately kept millions of Thais uneducated, poor and brainwashed for decades.

Just my opinion, but make no mistake, right now is crunch time for these people and it's really disappointing to see a few foreigners eagerly drinking down the Kool-Aid. No wonder many Thais think foreigners are stupid and inferior.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Bodene

[rubl]

I really do hope that the 248 former MP's will be impeached.

Regardless of any political persuasions the guilty have to be punished.

The guilty being punished would be great.

But that's not what's happening here.

The innocent are being persecuted.

Fear not though my friend, for no matter what extremes the Generals and their cronies stoop to, Thaksin will still win the next election in a landslide.

In the long run, justice always prevails!

Since the 248 MPs are the ones involved in the attempted modification of the constitution, since the Constitutional Court ruled that move illegal (in November 2013), it would seem the guilty are being asked to be accountable. Being held accountable is persecution in your eyes?

As for punishment, what punishment?

The Surayud government assured the Thai people that the last military coup government's Constitution could be altered later, if only they would pass it then. You remember Surayud, he was the guy with the illegal estate at Kao Yai that he abandoned because of the bad publicity and the fingers that were pointing where nobody wanted fingers pointing. And he was seriously concerned that the Thai people were about to reject his Constitution.

Fast forward 7 or 8 years. The Constitutional Court acted on a petition from the Democrat Party, and chose to interpret 'amending the constitution in respect of the election of the Senate members; as 'an attempt to 'overthrow the system of government with the King as Head of State'.

Yingluck's government should have seen that for what is was, especially when the same court stated that 'Thailand did not need high-speed trains'. Blind Freddy could have seen what was happening and what was coming, and they should have abrogated the Constitution, arrested then shot the conspirators for treason, and purged the elite networks. That's what the elites were frightened would happen so they planned all the steps in remarkable detail and great care, hoping the Thai people could never be able to work out what was happening or what had been done. In that respect they were evidently right.

Yingluck should have recognised and stopped it then - especially after the last 3-ring circus, (the one that resulted in Newin Chidchob jumping the fence to join the Democrat's little soiree, and in the process securing for himself an acquittal on the bamboo sapling scandal prosecution). But I seriously think Yingluck did not see a coup coming, although it had been rumoured well in advance. She also failed to recognise whose hands were making the marionettes dance and that was her second major stupidity.

Everything since then has been directed only at making sure that Thaksin and his disciples never again hold power, and even if they do by some misadventure, that they can be neutered by a hostile constitution.

That's all they want... everything else is just camouflage.

Nobody should under-estimate the determination of these people to maintain a feudal Thailand, which is one of the reasons they have (in my opinion) deliberately kept millions of Thais uneducated, poor and brainwashed for decades.

Just my opinion, but make no mistake, right now is crunch time for these people and it's really disappointing to see a few foreigners eagerly drinking down the Kool-Aid. No wonder many Thais think foreigners are stupid and inferior.

"Just my opinion, but make no mistake, right now is crunch time"

It would seem so. I can see that from all the obfuscation, and half-truths currently being posted.

[jayboy]

Thailand is most emphatically not being run in the way that most Thais wish it to be. They have been denied the right to choose how it is to be run.

It may belong to all the Thai people, but it is being run by and for a small cabal who have usurped power They have no interest in the wishes or rights of the rest of the Thai people.

How do you KNOW Thailand is not being run the way most Thais wish it to be?

Have you done an independent survey of perhaps 10,000 Thais across all 76 provinces?

At the moment all I see is your personal opinion which is that of a non Thai supposing to speak for all Thais.

IMPO having talked to a few local Thais here in rural Khampaeng Phet, farmers and shopkeepers, they don't really care who is running the country as long as someone is.

They know that whichever party is in power, be it PTP, Democrats, Army or any other political party, that after the election they will be screwed over and ignored until the next election. The only good thing for them in the run up to the election is the money they get from most political parties and the village parties paid for in part by the politicians, local, regional and national.

What they care about is a roof over their heads, food on the table, a job, if they are farmers they want more rain so that they can harvest whatever crop they are growing, and they pray that their kids are not into drugs or anything like that.

Now that is my opinion and observation and which carries equal weight with yours with the Thai people.

Nothing at all.

No I am afraid it is you that is in error.In any event though all should have the right to speak it is a common error that one man's opinion is as good as another's.To believe otherwise would give equal ranking to the ignorant and the foolish.

Talking to a few farmers means nothing even taking into account your limitations in communicating.Given the current repression it's not possible to have a credible opinion survey.But we do know the regime is terrified of free and fair elections.Not difficult to draw the relevant conclusions.

While all voters want a better life for themselves and families, your analysis is wrong headed and old fashioned.Ordinary Thais are now generally very politicised and the weight you give to vote buying shows how badly informed and out of date you are.

I don't blame you for your errors.These are common currency among some.If you can grasp that Thais have in the last decade become politically sophisticated that would be the first step to letting go of some of your naive misconceptions.

They are not errors as they are people who I talk with on a daily and weekly basis.

quote from you "In any event though all should have the right to speak it is a common error that one man's opinion is as good as another's.To believe otherwise would give equal ranking to the ignorant and the foolish." So who in your opinion has the right to decide which opinion is right, you, me, any other poster on TVF, Somchai down the road, politicians, the PM? Who!

quote "While all voters want a better life for themselves and families, your analysis is wrong headed and old fashioned.Ordinary Thais are now generally very politicised and the weight you give to vote buying shows how badly informed and out of date you are."

How many "ordinary Thais" do you speak with on a daily basis and how do YOU define who is ordinary or not? How do YOU know that "ordinary" Thais are politicised now? Have you done a survey, if so, where and when and across how many people? What were the questions? Have you published it.

quote "I don't blame you for your errors.These are common currency among some.If you can grasp that Thais have in the last decade become politically sophisticated that would be the first step to letting go of some of your naive misconceptions."

Thank you for not blaming me for my errors, but why are they errors? In your mind and opinion perhaps, but certainly not in mine. Can you show me anywhere where Thais have become more politically sophisticated? Perhaps in the cities but not that much in rural Thailand where the majority of Thais actually live. I don't have any naive misconceptions at least in my opinion, but then again I know myself a lot better than you do.

It is your opinion against mine and as I said earlier my opinion and yours cxarry equal weight as does everybody else who posts their opinions here on TVF.

The fact that most Thai people never read this forum and no Thai people care what we think should give you a clue as to what our collective opinions are worth in Thailand.

In the politest possible way I would suggest your rambling and incoherent post is an excellent example of why opinions should not be given equal weight.You have the right to say what is on your mind even if as in this case it is not supported by evidence.You do not have the right to expect your musings will be taken seriously.

The remarkable politicisation of ordinary Thais over the last 15 years or so is a matter of record,and accepted on all sides of the spectrum.The debate about populism recognises this.This phenomenon is associated with the demise of social deference, increasing prosperity and political exploitation - initially by Thaksin but increasingly by all parties.

Whether Thais care very much or at all what expatriates ( or the sub sector TV represents ) is I agree debatable.However I don't understand why you think that is relevant to the discussion.Indeed your reference to it rather exemplifies the chaotic thought processes that lie behind your observations.

[Bodene]

"Just my opinion, but make no mistake, right now is crunch time"

It would seem so. I can see that from all the obfuscation, and half-truths currently being posted.

But you can't quite articulate what they are or what the real truth is as you see it.

I sympathise, we all have limitations to work with.

[smutcakes]

"Just my opinion, but make no mistake, right now is crunch time"

It would seem so. I can see that from all the obfuscation, and half-truths currently being posted.

But you can't quite articulate what they are or what the real truth is as you see it.

I sympathise, we all have limitations to work with.

Let the great uncle Rubl educate you its enough to make you cringe and skin crawl at the same time

[rubl]

"Just my opinion, but make no mistake, right now is crunch time"

It would seem so. I can see that from all the obfuscation, and half-truths currently being posted.

But you can't quite articulate what they are or what the real truth is as you see it.

I sympathise, we all have limitations to work with.

Once or twice being challenged I've taken a post apart to the point even I felt sorry for the fellow who asked. It's too hard work and doesn't seem to give any impression in the poster of the post taken apart.

So, may I suggest you just ask blind Freddy?

[baboon]

"Just my opinion, but make no mistake, right now is crunch time"

It would seem so. I can see that from all the obfuscation, and half-truths currently being posted.

But you can't quite articulate what they are or what the real truth is as you see it.

I sympathise, we all have limitations to work with.

What are you on about? Of course he can. He posts most of them...