Concerns over coup 'will only give China more room to woo Thailand'

[webfact]

Concerns over coup 'will only give China more room to woo Thailand'
WASAMON AUDJARINT
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- LAST YEAR'S military coup has shaped relations between Thailand and the United States, while Washington's strong reaction has pushed Bangkok closer to China, political experts said during a panel discussion.

Speaking at the discussion on "Eagle and the Elephant: US-Thai Relations 2015" hosted by the Foreign Correspondents' Club of Thailand, ex-foreign minister Kasit Piromya recalled the long-held cooperation between the countries, citing previous progress and development that at one point "eventually defeated communism".

Relations, he continued, have both tangible process and yet some hiccups. Thailand now is being viewed quite negatively by the US and even obtained some soft sanction from the country, largely because of the military coup last year.

"Democratisation processes in Thailand for the past 83 years have been witnessed by friends ... [it should be noted that] rational democracy has been eroded by familial, parochial relationships. And that's simply [a matter] of greed and craving," Kasit said, possibly referring to how former PM Thaksin Shinawatra's network allegedly wielded financial influence over Thailand by using democracy discourse, and consequently caused political turmoil.

That's why domestic democracy must be re-addressed, Kasit said. "Thailand cannot do it alone. We need friends ... that's what friendship is all about. Please move forward, Thai people never give up on democracy," he concluded.

David Lyman, a former president of the American Chamber of Commerce and veteran officer of the US Navy, said: "My personal, and probably controversial, view is that the Thai military did the right thing. They shut out a [possible] civil war, and their rule made the economy stand still," compared with a worsening situation if the military did nothing, Lyman said.

However, it is undeniable that the practice of coups is in contrast with the US pro-democracy foreign policy. Still, Lyman looked forward to continuing good relations between the countries.

Benjamin Zawacki, a former Amnesty International researcher, however, said that looking at the Thai situation in recent decades, especially within the past few years, it was really likely that Thailand was shifting towards China. "And China is about to replace the US [in this case]. And it is beyond the point of slowing down."Zawacki cited the 1997 Asian financial crisis as one of the observable causes of Thailand's shift from the US to China.

"China is actually the first country that offered help worth million of dollars, while the US came to help in 1998, a year later," said Zawacki, adding that this was possibly because some US companies benefited from the crisis.

He also noted that some concerns and soft sanctions from the West, including the US, would only give China more room to come towards Thailand.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Concerns-over-coup-will-only-give-China-more-room--30266124.html

-- The Nation 2015-08-07

[LomSak27]

Hey its Kasit again Telling US foir the 15 or 25th time that if the US keeps being picky about the coup its just going to push Thailand deeper into the China Embrace. Wow big news there. I wonder if anyone and their dog hasn't heard The Nation and sycophant cronies bleating this message in the last year. ... Doh!

Time for a change up and bleat about rebooting, reforming Thailand before any elections are held or something.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

As if this is a big deal. If Thailand wants to get in bed with China then they should do so. May actually be a much better match. This is all written from Thailand's point of view.. wouldn't a contributing factor be that Thailand is currently much less strategically relevant compared to earlier in the last century? USA has other areas of attention now, SE Asia is a little backwater that - by and large - isn't causing anyone any trouble.

[chainarong]

Let's face it Thailand wasn't pushed by anyone to cuddle up to China , the response from Prayut - O was like a kid losing his ninja battalion toy set ,went straight away to Beijing to form the Government to Government agreement ( The Prayut - O transparency ) for a H/S Rail system when you come to analyse this, the timeline indicates that this was well truly thought out long before the US and the West Gave Prayut - O a hard time , the concerning point is the relationship and the trade off and whether an Elected Government of the future drops China and what will that incur, China has a horrible reputation of under mining gullible governments and inciting hatred, violence from within the community, Thailand , with the introduction of advanced technology, to the west has no strategic importance , Thailand is just ripe for a dose of Chinese Checkers.

[tbthailand]

Kasit, took him and the PDRC/F about 30 seconds to stay out of politics....

Nice bit of propaganda, though, coming from him here...

That's why domestic democracy must be re-addressed, Kasit said. "Thailand cannot do it alone. We need friends ... that's what friendship is all about. Please move forward, Thai people never give up on democracy," he concluded.

Said one of the Democrats who boycotted the last election... 'giving up' on democracy couldn't possibly have been a reason, although 'giving up on winning an election' probably fits the bill...

[Orac]

Obviously a lot of concern from Suthep and his backers down at the Pacific Club about the tilt towards China hence bringing Kasit on board as the former ambassador to US.

[tbthailand]

hmmm, ...

David Lyman, a former president of the American Chamber of Commerce and veteran officer of the US Navy, said: "My personal, and probably controversial, view is that the Thai military did the right thing. They shut out a [possible] civil war, and their rule made the economy stand still," compared with a worsening situation if the military did nothing, Lyman said.

as a former navy officer, he should ask himself where he would be if he and his military colleagues in the US had done the same thing as the Thai military did in 2014 ...

He regurgitates the military propaganda about a 'preventing a civil war' and demonstrates a complete ignorance of the economic and political situation in Thailand. Seriously, such an uninformed and unintelligent comment is better left unsaid...

[Hayduke]

Don't know how much more room is really needed. The property's on the market and the prospective buyer is doing a walk-through right now. Once the deal is finalized, the only things left to determine are the final price, what everyone's take is going to be and the method of payment. Sure there are some other issues, but they can probably be made to go away.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Hayduke

[magnacarta]

As if this is a big deal. If Thailand wants to get in bed with China then they should do so. May actually be a much better match. This is all written from Thailand's point of view.. wouldn't a contributing factor be that Thailand is currently much less strategically relevant compared to earlier in the last century? USA has other areas of attention now, SE Asia is a little backwater that - by and large - isn't causing anyone any trouble.

Sorry accidentily gave a like to your post,I am not an expert but I do read the news on more worthy sites than this one ( all international news is lifted from them and sadly lacking in detail on here ) sorry I digress.Maybe you might like to look where the US are building there bases in the region.I won't spoil it for you as I think you need to look beyond this blinkered site.

[TimmyT]

I hope one day the whole world will understand what damage US does to the world. How US parasites on world's economy by printing worthless paper and forcing other countries to accept it as money.

US self-proclaimed world policeman should be forced to stay inside it's geographical borders.

China is a much better choice for Thailand than US

Edited August 7, 2015 by TimmyT

[yuv06]

As if this is a big deal. If Thailand wants to get in bed with China then they should do so. May actually be a much better match. This is all written from Thailand's point of view.. wouldn't a contributing factor be that Thailand is currently much less strategically relevant compared to earlier in the last century? USA has other areas of attention now, SE Asia is a little backwater that - by and large - isn't causing anyone any trouble.

Haven't you heard USA is to busy sucking up to Vietnam and other countries that have conflict with China so they beat their war drums Kerry is in Vietnam and before this in Malaysia of course Malaysia is about TPP that is why they got an upgrade to tier 2 for slave trafficking without even arresting anyone.

[LomSak27]

Ahh .. Friday and we have populist propaganda theories emerging into the weekend air. Ones that both Red and Yellow supporters believe in. YeeHaa.

"China is actually the first country that offered help worth million of dollars, while the US came to help in 1998, a year later," said Zawacki, adding that this was possibly because some US companies benefited from the crisis.

At the time the China offer was considered a drop in the bucket and ignored. As the dominoes fell; Indonesia, Malaysia and most importantly Korea got hit, the crisis became too big for any one country. The stabilization plan went under the IMF with a group of countries contributing.

It is said Thailand was very angry that the US did not ride to the rescue of their loyal ally. Unfortunately Thailand was NOT considered either a loyal ally or an important one. Korea and Indonesia are and were far more important, not so much as allies but in the world economy and the global power structure.

In the mythology that has been created afterwards, foreigners (George Soros, farang, US) both created this crisis, then benefited from it.

In reality the big lenders were US and Japanese banks, to Thai financial institutions. When non- performing loans blew them up, both Japanese and US banks LOST heavily. That fact is never mentioned in the Thai stories.

The US and Japanese Banks did not take control of Thai companies (Myth #3), however certain assets now in their possession were auctioned. The group that came out ahead on it was the Taiwanese who bought up a number of these assets at fire sale prices as no one else would touch them. That is where you get the foreigners buying up Thailand. That those foreigners were from Taiwan or Singapore is never mentioned. Obviously that factoid is too “sensitive” a reality to accurately discuss even 17 years later.

[yuv06]

Ahh .. Friday and we have populist propaganda theories emerging into the weekend air. Ones that both Red and Yellow supporters believe in. YeeHaa.

"China is actually the first country that offered help worth million of dollars, while the US came to help in 1998, a year later," said Zawacki, adding that this was possibly because some US companies benefited from the crisis.

At the time the China offer was considered a drop in the bucket and ignored. As the dominoes fell; Indonesia, Malaysia and most importantly Korea got hit, the crisis became too big for any one country. The stabilization plan went under the IMF with a group of countries contributing.

It is said Thailand was very angry that the US did not ride to the rescue of their loyal ally. Unfortunately Thailand was NOT considered either a loyal ally or an important one. Korea and Indonesia are and were far more important, not so much as allies but in the world economy and the global power structure.

In the mythology that has been created afterwards, foreigners (George Soros, farang, US) both created this crisis, then benefited from it.

In reality the big lenders were US and Japanese banks, to Thai financial institutions. When non- performing loans blew them up, both Japanese and US banks LOST heavily. That fact is never mentioned in the Thai stories.

The US and Japanese Banks did not take control of Thai companies (Myth #3), however certain assets now in their possession were auctioned. The group that came out ahead on it was the Taiwanese who bought up a number of these assets at fire sale prices as no one else would touch them. That is where you get the foreigners buying up Thailand. That those foreigners were from Taiwan or Singapore is never mentioned. Obviously that factoid is too “sensitive” a reality to accurately discuss even 17 years later.

But who triggered the financial crises in the first place?

[yuv06]

Let's face it Thailand wasn't pushed by anyone to cuddle up to China , the response from Prayut - O was like a kid losing his ninja battalion toy set ,went straight away to Beijing to form the Government to Government agreement ( The Prayut - O transparency ) for a H/S Rail system when you come to analyse this, the timeline indicates that this was well truly thought out long before the US and the West Gave Prayut - O a hard time , the concerning point is the relationship and the trade off and whether an Elected Government of the future drops China and what will that incur, China has a horrible reputation of under mining gullible governments and inciting hatred, violence from within the community, Thailand , with the introduction of advanced technology, to the west has no strategic importance , Thailand is just ripe for a dose of Chinese Checkers.

You must not have been around in the 90s Thailand have leaned towards China since the 90s. BTW can you name any country China is undermining? Who undermined Egypt, Libya, Syria, Ukraine, Iraq and so on!

[Bodene]

As if this is a big deal. If Thailand wants to get in bed with China then they should do so. May actually be a much better match. This is all written from Thailand's point of view.. wouldn't a contributing factor be that Thailand is currently much less strategically relevant compared to earlier in the last century? USA has other areas of attention now, SE Asia is a little backwater that - by and large - isn't causing anyone any trouble.

Absolutely right The whole "stop it or you'll drive us further into the embrace of your enemy and then you'll be sorry" farce is childish and the USA has rightly ignored it.

They should tell Thailand, "do what you've got to do, but when you have to lie in the bed you make, don't come whining to us for sympathy and help".

As others have noted, China is not a good friend to Thailand, despite what the military might hope would be the case.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Bodene

[bamnutsak]

Well the best way to dump an "old girlfriend" is to tell her "it's not you, it's me", change the locks and then get her interested in someone else.

If I'm the U.S., it's time to dump this passive-aggressive, high-maintenance, borderline schizo GF and move on to more interesting partners, even some of whom I've already shagged before and broken up with.

[yuv06]

Well the best way to dump an "old girlfriend" is to tell her "it's not you, it's me", change the locks and then get her interested in someone else.

If I'm the U.S., it's time to dump this passive-aggressive, high-maintenance, borderline schizo GF and move on to more interesting partners, even some of whom I've already shagged before and broken up with.

The USA has not been shagging Thailand it is the opposite Thailand has been shagging the west for centuries and they are good at it

[Bodene]

I hope one day the whole world will understand what damage US does to the world. How US parasites on world's economy by printing worthless paper and forcing other countries to accept it as money.

US self-proclaimed world policeman should be forced to stay inside it's geographical borders.

China is a much better choice for Thailand than US

Agree in general about the USA, but King Kong being a very naughty boy doesn't make Godzilla magically become a great friend. Besides, I thought Thailand didn't need friends because it's so important, so great and has never been colonized... I think it was a Thai told me that.

The reality appears to be that Thailand is not great, not important and has no friends, real or imagined.

[h90]

Hey its Kasit again Telling US foir the 15 or 25th time that if the US keeps being picky about the coup its just going to push Thailand deeper into the China Embrace. Wow big news there. I wonder if anyone and their dog hasn't heard The Nation and sycophant cronies bleating this message in the last year. ... Doh!

Time for a change up and bleat about rebooting, reforming Thailand before any elections are held or something.

Kasit is the dumbest Thai politician (and there is a lot competition). I read the letters he sent for Germany when there was the problem with the airplane.

They are just unbelievable......

[SoilSpoil]

Let's pray China won't get too much influence here. Wouldn't like to get old or see my kids grow up in a Chinese satellite state.

[smutcakes]

Hey its Kasit again Telling US foir the 15 or 25th time that if the US keeps being picky about the coup its just going to push Thailand deeper into the China Embrace. Wow big news there. I wonder if anyone and their dog hasn't heard The Nation and sycophant cronies bleating this message in the last year. ... Doh!

Time for a change up and bleat about rebooting, reforming Thailand before any elections are held or something.

Kasit is the dumbest Thai politician (and there is a lot competition). I read the letters he sent for Germany when there was the problem with the airplane.

They are just unbelievable......

H90 calling someone else dumb!!! i have heard it all now.

[Jimlove]

I hope one day the whole world will understand what damage US does to the world. How US parasites on world's economy by printing worthless paper and forcing other countries to accept it as money.

US self-proclaimed world policeman should be forced to stay inside it's geographical borders.

China is a much better choice for Thailand than US

Next you are gonna claim that Thailand should join forces with ISIS right ...

[Rancid]

Wasn't there an attempted military coup in the US back in the 30s? Recall the marine general that stopped it later claimed that all wars are a scam for the rich to make money. Interesting though that the US is no stranger to the concept.

[yuv06]

I hope one day the whole world will understand what damage US does to the world. How US parasites on world's economy by printing worthless paper and forcing other countries to accept it as money.

US self-proclaimed world policeman should be forced to stay inside it's geographical borders.

China is a much better choice for Thailand than US

Next you are gonna claim that Thailand should join forces with ISIS right ...

[yuv06]

USA is the creator of ISIS not China

[harada]

As some countries are now starting to learn selling out to the Chinese can come back and bite you in the long run

[lildragon]

I hope one day the whole world will understand what damage US does to the world. How US parasites on world's economy by printing worthless paper and forcing other countries to accept it as money.

US self-proclaimed world policeman should be forced to stay inside it's geographical borders.

China is a much better choice for Thailand than US

Agree in general about the USA, but King Kong being a very naughty boy doesn't make Godzilla magically become a great friend. Besides, I thought Thailand didn't need friends because it's so important, so great and has never been colonized... I think it was a Thai told me that.

The reality appears to be that Thailand is not great, not important and has no friends, real or imagined.

Both corrupt systems that only benefit the elite and guises of capitalism and communism. Both a charade and I deplore both. However put a gun to my head and force me to live in one of them then I'm choosing the states. At least I can speak out against the state, freely use social media and research and condemn the current and past actions of the government. You can't do that in China. It's all so controlled.

Timmy seems to be a massive fascist troll so he'd love the repression.

[Time Traveller]

hmmm, ...

David Lyman, a former president of the American Chamber of Commerce and veteran officer of the US Navy, said: "My personal, and probably controversial, view is that the Thai military did the right thing. They shut out a [possible] civil war, and their rule made the economy stand still," compared with a worsening situation if the military did nothing, Lyman said.

as a former navy officer, he should ask himself where he would be if he and his military colleagues in the US had done the same thing as the Thai military did in 2014 ...

He regurgitates the military propaganda about a 'preventing a civil war' and demonstrates a complete ignorance of the economic and political situation in Thailand. Seriously, such an uninformed and unintelligent comment is better left unsaid...

David Lyman is not ignorant, nor uninformed or unintelligent. He has been in the country since the 1950s after his parents owned a well known Thai law firm which he worked at for almost 50 years. He is about as clued in to the inner workings of Thailand as any expat will ever get.

However, David Lyman is biased. The military could have also prevented civil war by supporting the elected government (which they are legally obligated to do)but chose not to.

It's clear the military resented any change to the status quo. Which is perfect for Mr Lyman's law firm which benefits from the foreign clients ongoing desperation at the state of intellectual property infringements by thai criminals. Not to mention the overall restrictions on foreign business in thailand.

It's financially rewarding for Mr Lyman that the existing difficulties in Thailand continue.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Time Traveller

[Time Traveller]

I hope one day the whole world will understand what damage US does to the world. How US parasites on world's economy by printing worthless paper and forcing other countries to accept it as money.

US self-proclaimed world policeman should be forced to stay inside it's geographical borders.

China is a much better choice for Thailand than US

.....like no other country in the world prints worthless paper and forces anyone to use it.

TimmyT, when you were growing up did people regularly refer to you as Dim Tim ?

[boomerangutang]

China doesn't let silly little things like coup d'etats and humanitarian issues get in the way of tightening up economic ties with a country. It never made any bones about Sudan or Congo or Sebia or Timor. Money and control and resources, in that order, are all that matter to Chinese leaders.

Since Thai self-appointed non-elected leaders were so eager for friends, it was easy to become China's lapdog.