buy small bull Calve

[Allgeier]

Hello

I live in Roi Et and i am thinking to buy small bull Calves from the Milkfarm an feed them. Somebody have done somethink like this bevor.

The price should be around 1500 to 3000 Bath. Depend on the Father.

The search give me some Topic but all to old.

With greetings

Allgeier

[kickstart]

It can be done, prices are nearer 3000 Bart than 1500 Bart, for bull calves breed is not important unless it is a guy who knows his cattle and he would probably not sell his bull calves for 3000 Bart .

You have got them ,what do you intend on doing with them, fatten them up and sell them as beef at 2 year old or sell them at 6- 8 months.

Either way it will not be easy ,to start with milk powder for calves has killed off more calve than almost any anything else, wrong mixing ,normally too much milk powder, not mixing it right ,lumps still floating on the surface ,and not using warm water to mix the milk powder ,basically you must follow the instructions on the bag, or look on the net ,should be there.

When calves are a week old offer them some calf feed and rice straw not roadside grass, calves can not direst grass until they are about 4 months old ,the rumen is not developed enough to digest grass calves when they are born only have the Abomasum ,the true stomach ,there to digest milk, not grass, feeding straw helps to develop the rumen .

2 1/2 months old wean them off ,keep them on calf feed ,then swop over to a cheaper 16% calf feed offer them water the whole time ,not like Thai's ,just the odd bucket of water at feeding time ,and for some reason mid day.

As I said ,you have got the above out the way then what ,Thai cattle prices are volatile,,18 months ago a bull calf could be brought for 500-800 Bart ,new year and sonogram festival prices go up, at the moment beef prices are dropping a bit, if you run them on to 2 years ,who knows what the price will be, but the word is a drop in price.

Farmer near me sold some 7-8 months bull calves for 10 000 Bart each, they where fit animals ,the owner made a bit .could be the way to go.

Yours Regs

KS

[Allgeier]

Farmer near me sold some 7-8 months bull calves for 10 000 Bart each, they where fit animals ,the owner made a bit .could be the way to go.

This is not to mutch.

This facebook site helps me to get a feeling about the price here.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A2-25-%E0%B8%99/477020019083886?sk=timeline&ref=page_internal

And from this site a got this picture. The price was 17000 Bath and is in my eye to less.If the Meatprice ist about 300 bath/kg. And i will say sure to get 80 oder 100 kg out of this milkcowbull. The price should be 10000 Bath more.

The Photo ist from this facebook site.

I got offer to buy for 1500 Bath bull calve from the black and white cow. But if i get after only 17000 Bath. Who make the most profit again? The Butcher.

Or somebody have a better eye. How many kg of meat can come out from is small bull on the photo? I will say about 100 kg.

[slapout]

Figure on loss of 50$ of total weight to hanging gutted head cut off, legs cut off at joint below meat producing portion of legs. skined hanging weight. Then add in cutting, boning losses then figure price to charge on various cuts add tongue and tail, liver tripe, heart etc that you can sell and go from there

Edited August 10, 2015 by slapout

[kickstart]

The animal in the photo I would say to be at least 18 months old and Holstein Friesian, not a very fit one at all ,I would put it at 230 kg.I would say it would be one of the owners own stock ,only rearing cost involved. that photo was posted back in May.

At the moment the beef price is about 163 Bart kg ,that price came from a Thai cattle dealer I was talking to last week ,from the horse's mouth, not social media .

230 kg @ 163 Bart kg = 37490 ,with a KO% (killing out%)of 50% , may be less on that animal,=115 kg of meat ? you should get 18745 Bart,not a bad price ,at a guess it has been fed on 16% concentrate and rice straw, should make a bit .

Where you get 300 Bart /kg from, our local market sells beef at about 240 baht kg.

Rearing beef in Thailand is not easy ,that face book page you quoted ,most of the stock there will be for breeding, like that red 18 month old Brangus heifer selling for 35000 Bart.about right for that heifer, nice animal ,some of the bulls might be for beef.

To make money all depends on what you feed ,if you feed lots of expensive concentrate and a bit of rice straw ,easy way to do it ,but margins will be low ,if you go for a high quality forage based diet ,hard work ,you will get higher margins .

Have a look at past TV posts on beef ,most will say in margins are low, and it is hard work , and as with a lot of commodities in Thailand it is the middle man who makes the money, not the producer .

Good luck

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Where is Neversure when you need him?

[Bulldozer Dawn]

About fours years ago I bought a very small bull calf for 1500THB.

I used to practice lifting him up over my head everyday.

Yes...I am Hercules

Edited August 10, 2015 by Bulldozer Dawn

[kickstart]

About fours years ago I bought a very small bull calf for 1500THB.

I used to practice lifting him up over my head everyday.

Yes...I am Hercules

Why use a calf ,use a lump of concrete, at least it will not crap on you. dumb post .

Why do you need Neversure ,lift him over your head.

[thehelmsman]

I grew up on a dairy. had to feed the little buggers. Not as easy as it may sound. Are you going to castrate? If so which method, you can cut them or use rubberband. You got to be there feeding twice daily, proper fences, pay for grain, you have to be able to treat scours and the like yourself. If they drink standing water you got liver flukes to deal with. Have fun..........

[Allgeier]

I stay already home and feed twice the day my pig. This is the smallest problem or i will not call this a Problem. This is the normal life when you have animal.

But with the pigs i am not so happy.

With the cows i can put more of my own feed inside this to cut the cost of feeding.

In the cassava Fabrik, i or my wife met sometimes Thaipeople. There feed the waste from the cassavafabrik. Together with some commercial feed to milkcows and beefcattle

Gras, byprodukt from the cassavafabrik together with commercial feed should rise them and cut the cost.

My question is if somebody have rise small calve befor here in Thailand?

To get a feeling about this and i would like to see somethink like this with my own eyes.

A Farm who rise small calve.

And organic also.

[kickstart]

I do not know where in Thailand you are ,but the easiest way to find out about rearing calves, would be to find a dairy farm ,they will be rearing heifer calves, same method ,but heifers they should be able to give you all the advice you need .

You want to feed cassava waste ,or in Thai Gut-Mun,I wish you luck, at a guess the reason is the cost ,at about 85 stang a kg it is cheap, and there the advantages stop .

Cassava waste is only 1.9% protein, and a low energy feed , when it is delivered there is a lot of water ,the DM (dry matter) is about 23%,or it is 77% water, if you buy a lot, after 7-10 days you will get a mould problem, and some wastage Feed to much you will get Rumen Acidosis (Google it),if your cattle get it bad ,they is no cure,no matter what your vet says ,that if he can diagnose it , plus other gut problems .And if you feed rice straw as sole fibre /roughage,and a low energy 16% concentrate, you will not get the required growth rate to make any money.

@thehelmsman,I spent a few years rearing calves too ,dairy calves were never a problem but Charolais calves ,they were thick ,and took ages to get to drink on they own .

As for castrating calves it is not done in Thailand we rear a few beef cattle, and the bulls we sell at about 12- 15 month , and by then they are starting to get stroppy, one bull we sold last year, was a Angus X, nice animal, the cattle dealer who brought him said he was going to use him as a stock bull, if he was castrated we would not have got as much as we did.

If the op did castrate his bull calves ,the rubber rings would be best ,but in the UK the law is, bull calves must be castrated before they are 7 days old ,he would have to do it himself ,like using a knife when calves are about 3 months old, try to find a Thai vet that could do the job ,not easy. Gissmarketing in bkk sell the rings and pliers.

When bulls are left un-cut there have a better live weight gain, than castrated bulls, one advantage of leaving them whole.

Your advice is good ,but at a guess they will be kept in a shed the whole time and not go out grazing, poor buggers.

[Allgeier]

Hello kickstart

I come from Roi Et.

I feed for over 1 year now this cassava waste to pigs. But it is fermented. And i meet sometimes people in the cassave fabrik, there feed this to milkcows and meetcattle. But not only this, togehter with somethink else like commercial feed.

กากมัน gag man

The price is now 1 Satang for one Kilo.

The pig live the hole life on concrite floor. Nobody call them poor bugger.

Maybe the small calves are not perfekt for me. Better to buy calves who stoped to drink the milk already.

If i not have the cassava waste and i not like to feed commercial feed. What i have else to feed to the cows or cattle?

I like to run a organic farm. Nobody know what is inside commercial feed. Alternatives?

Edited August 12, 2015 by Allgeier

[loong]

The price is now 1 Satang for one Kilo.

I find that hard to believe. 10 Baht for 1 tonne is not worth the effort of weighing it.

[kickstart]

Gut Mun or cassava waste comes from factory's that produce cassava flour, some cassava waste comes from producing ethanol ,that has molasses and yeast in ,from the fermenting process ,not a bad feed for cattle has a higher dry matter ,the factory wants to get rid of the bi- product, as I said it does not have a long shelf life, and a lot is produced and it contains a lot of water.so for a factory a problem of what to do with it, selling it at a few stang is better than say dumping the stuff, a lot of farms around here feed it ,and it can come from up to 100 km away.

The op,s price seems low ,farmers around here pay 75-90 sang a kg ,most of that price is for haulage ,and one pickup load can weigh as much as 4 ton .

I feed brewer's grains I pay 2.10 Bart kg ,again most of that price that is haulage a 15 ton load from bbk not cheap on fuel.

@Allgeier, what else to feed ,if you want to be organic, then your best feed is grass ,if you have the land, to grow some grass, contact Michal Hare at Ubon forage seed, for advice on grass seed, but your management of grassland must be good to succeed .

As I said I feed brewers grains ,กากเบียร, Gut-Beer, in Thai that is if you can find it where you are, is a good feed

As for comerale feed ,a list of the ingredients are on the bag ,but all the big feed companies put in urea ,a cheap way of pushing up the protein of a ration ,not good for a organic feed.

Look on the internet for cattle rations they should be some ,most of the raw ingredients are available in Thailand.,you could use ground maize and soya bean meal, but it would be a good feed ,but not cost effective.

Look at TV's beef cattle feed options thread ,that might give you some ideas.

[Allgeier]

Gut Mun

I feed brewer's grains I pay 2.10 Bart kg

As I said I feed brewers grains ,กากเบียร, Gut-Beer

Why you pronounce กากมัน Gut Mun and also Gut -Beer ?

In Khon Kaen ist a Brewery. But there not give to everybody. I must buy it from a subdealer and there sell normaly to Farmer under Contract. We have two adresses in Khon Kaen from Subdealer but when we called them the last time there have not enough to give to somebody else.

A friend use this bewers grain and he told me he can keep the bag for a about 5 Days. After it start to stink.

I found a Farm in Sikhiu, there sell it dry for 9 bath/kg. Its sound not bad. And can keep for about 6 month. This sound better.

A couple of years ago i had some small thaicows. I count for fresh grass about one rai for one cow. But i not have enough Land so i must feed somethink else. Cassava for exemple.

But maybe write more about feeding in this cattel feed thread.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Allgeier

[kickstart]

Gut, in Thai means by-product, so cassava waste and brewers grains ,to us, are the by product of the ordinal ingredient.

I must admit you do your homework ,what I have been told the brewers grains from Khon Kaen are sold to CP ,who dry them and use in their feeds., not a lot get to other buyers .

When the floods where in Bangkok , we had some brewers grains from Khon Kaen ,but the cost of transport ,to Lopburi make them expensive ,our local seller only did it twice and gave up ,farmers said to dear.

We buy ours from a local farmer who ,as I said gets his 15 ton load and bags them up in to plastic bags ,normally 40 kg , and sells them ,I buy them about every 2 weeks ,the only problem is that being a low dry matter I get some mould on top ,also when I buy them I put holes ,using a pocket knife in the bottom of the bags ,helps drain some of the water out, improves keeping time

The smell is the grains fermenting in the bag ,not going off ,when I worked in the UK we use to buy in brewers grains in July and August ,when they where cheap ,up to 100 ton ,and clamp them, and use them from October onwards ,they would ferment ,never had any problems ,except when ran low, milk would drop .As a feed I rate them, 22% protein ,but the low dry matter is they biggest problem, and no starch.

Dried brewers grains are a good feed and are about 26?% protein.

[Allgeier]

Last week i bought 2 calves. One is 3 week and the another one 2 month. The price was 5000 Bath for both.

And now i will see how mutch there eat and what i will get after

https://youtu.be/cJ17GexCz4k

[Allgeier]

Last week there called me again. 2 with 6 weeks for 2000 Bath each. I picked them up the last days.

[CLW]

What breed is it?

[Allgeier]

What breed is it?

Should be the Holstein-Friesian.

[CLW]

What breed is it?

Should be the Holstein-Friesian.

I guess you're keeping it for milk.

How you are milking your cows?

Another question, anyone heard or seen Thai milking Zebu?

[pigeonjake]

And you're in the university,

He said they were bull calf's now if you have thought of a way to milk a bull you are a winner. Lol

[CLW]

And you're in the university,

He said they were bull calf's now if you have thought of a way to milk a bull you are a winner. Lol

Okay, shame on me...

I didn't re-read the title.

I just read about the Holstein-Friesian and was at cows and dairy...

[kickstart]

What breed is it?

Should be the Holstein-Friesian.

I guess you're keeping it for milk.

How you are milking your cows?

Another question, anyone heard or seen Thai milking Zebu?

Good question , the Thai milking Zebu ,TMZ was first breed in Thailand about 25 ? years ago by the DLD ,Thai government livestock Department .at the time a lot of milking cattle in Thailand ,came from American breeding ,imported semen, witch caused heat stress ,and they could not milk on the poor low engage diet and the problem with rice straw which was the main sauce of roughage ,like it still is to-day.

And the biggest problem, tics ,which caused Ananplasmoses and Babasiae,which in a very high per cent a cases proved fatal.

So the DLD ,I think looked at the Australian Milking Zebu AMZ, ,which ,according to Wikei,is a cross of Sahiwal ,Red Sindhi, Jersey ,Liiawarra ,Guernsey and some Friesian breed back in the 1950's.

I would say the DLD got some AMZ semen and put it on some Thai Frisian cows ,which I would say give you breeding bull about 60% Frisian and 40% AMZ, which would give you TMZ , giving you a cow with some tolerance to heat stress ,and more important resistance to tic fever , and some bad points, slow milking ,.a twisted uterus, which make it a difficult breed to AI ,artificial insemination ,and some of the buggers use to kick hard.

Not being used now ,but some farmers still ask about the TMZ

Now the DPO at Mortlec Salaburi ,the milk producing arm of the Thai Denmark milk group ,have there own breeding program , looking at the bulls breeding ,they is still a percentage of TMZ in the breeding, one bull, Mr Perm ,is 75% Friesian 25% Sahial ,a good bull to. .

Those bull calves of Allgeier ,will not be 100% Holstein-Friesian ,about 87%-95%,the rest being Sahiwal ,Thai Native maybe Brahman ,if they are 100% he will have a job to fatten them ,as they will be to extreme dairy type to put on any meat ,at a guess I would say the DLD AI'ed the cows ,there present bull team ,have bulls from 75-95% Holstein Friesian blood.

[CLW]

What breed is it?

Should be the Holstein-Friesian.

I guess you're keeping it for milk.

How you are milking your cows?

Another question, anyone heard or seen Thai milking Zebu?

Good question , the Thai milking Zebu ,TMZ was first breed in Thailand about 25 ? years ago by the DLD ,Thai government livestock Department .at the time a lot of milking cattle in Thailand ,came from American breeding ,imported semen, witch caused heat stress ,and they could not milk on the poor low engage diet and the problem with rice straw which was the main sauce of roughage ,like it still is to-day.

And the biggest problem, tics ,which caused Ananplasmoses and Babasiae,which in a very high per cent a cases proved fatal.

So the DLD ,I think looked at the Australian Milking Zebu AMZ, ,which ,according to Wikei,is a cross of Sahiwal ,Red Sindhi, Jersey ,Liiawarra ,Guernsey and some Friesian breed back in the 1950's.

I would say the DLD got some AMZ semen and put it on some Thai Frisian cows ,which I would say give you breeding bull about 60% Frisian and 40% AMZ, which would give you TMZ , giving you a cow with some tolerance to heat stress ,and more important resistance to tic fever , and some bad points, slow milking ,.a twisted uterus, which make it a difficult breed to AI ,artificial insemination ,and some of the buggers use to kick hard.

Not being used now ,but some farmers still ask about the TMZ

Now the DPO at Mortlec Salaburi ,the milk producing arm of the Thai Denmark milk group ,have there own breeding program , looking at the bulls breeding ,they is still a percentage of TMZ in the breeding, one bull, Mr Perm ,is 75% Friesian 25% Sahial ,a good bull to. .

Those bull calves of Allgeier ,will not be 100% Holstein-Friesian ,about 87%-95%,the rest being Sahiwal ,Thai Native maybe Brahman ,if they are 100% he will have a job to fatten them ,as they will be to extreme dairy type to put on any meat ,at a guess I would say the DLD AI'ed the cows ,there present bull team ,have bulls from 75-95% Holstein Friesian blood.

Excellent information! [emoji106]

[strolling]

What breed is it?

Should be the Holstein-Friesian.

I guess you're keeping it for milk.

How you are milking your cows?

Another question, anyone heard or seen Thai milking Zebu?