Shopping with bank card / exchange rates beware

[superal]

Visa Debit card purchase .

4 days ago 07/08/2015 I bought a television at Global and paid approximately 7000 baht with my visa debit card and thought nothing more , btw the instore ATM was not working. When I got home and looked at the receipt with my glasses I could see in very small print that the exchange rate used was 51 baht to the pound when it was officially 54.5 and up. Went back to Global the following day to view another much larger tv but before buying I asked to speak to a manager about the exchange rate . I spoke only to a lady who was sat at a computer and she could speak English . She intimated that as I was a non Thai I would have to pay more and that the head office dictated the rate to be used . I did not buy the second tv because they refused to discount anything to compensate for the low rate and was waved goodbye by many of the unoccupied , sat around gossiping and texting staff .

Amazing Thailand

[rwdrwdrwd]

They are applying an exchange at the point of sale, you should be able to just pay in baht. If they won't let you do this, take the cash out via ATM or bank counter services and pay in cash.

I wouldn't buy from there either though, if they refused to let me pay in baht.

Edited August 11, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[rak sa_ngop]

Yes you can elect to pay in baht, but most UK banks now apply a 'foreign transaction fee' so you end up paying about the same either way!

[BudRight]

It is against Visa and MasterCard's merchant agreements to not allow the choice of local currency. Complain to them and they will refund the difference at the expense of the merchant.

American Express prohibits the practice entirely.

In practice it is quite dangerous for the merchant to do this. Multiple complaints of this nature can result in blacklisting, not to mention significant fines.

Regarding foreign transaction fees, Norwich and Peterborough Building Society does not charge a FTF. Many Amex cards do not either.

Edited August 11, 2015 by BudRight

[Expattaff1308]

They are applying an exchange at the point of sale, you should be able to just pay in baht. If they won't let you do this, take the cash out via ATM or bank counter services and pay in cash.

I wouldn't buy from there either though, if they refused to let me pay in baht.

Its Visa who determine the rate, always better to pay in cash.

[rwdrwdrwd]

They are applying an exchange at the point of sale, you should be able to just pay in baht. If they won't let you do this, take the cash out via ATM or bank counter services and pay in cash.

I wouldn't buy from there either though, if they refused to let me pay in baht.

Its Visa who determine the rate, always better to pay in cash.

I don't think it is in this instance, if the rate is on the Thai POS receipt. Thai receipt is normally in baht unless the currency exchange has been performed on the Thai side, before the transaction is sent to Visa. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_currency_conversion

If paying in baht, the conversion would appear only on the home country bank statement, not the POS receipt. That's my experience anyway.

Edited August 11, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[rocketboybkk]

Visa Debit card purchase .

4 days ago 07/08/2015 I bought a television at Global and paid approximately 7000 baht with my visa debit card and thought nothing more , btw the instore ATM was not working. When I got home and looked at the receipt with my glasses I could see in very small print that the exchange rate used was 51 baht to the pound when it was officially 54.5 and up. Went back to Global the following day to view another much larger tv but before buying I asked to speak to a manager about the exchange rate . I spoke only to a lady who was sat at a computer and she could speak English . She intimated that as I was a non Thai I would have to pay more and that the head office dictated the rate to be used . I did not buy the second tv because they refused to discount anything to compensate for the low rate and was waved goodbye by many of the unoccupied , sat around gossiping and texting staff .

Amazing Thailand

Why didn't you return the TV & got one from somewhere else if you're that annoyed

Double pricing, I vote with my feet

Can we do that in the UK? Nope, you'd end up in court or on rogue traders

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[roamer]

Visa Debit card purchase .

4 days ago 07/08/2015 I bought a television at Global and paid approximately 7000 baht with my visa debit card and thought nothing more , btw the instore ATM was not working. When I got home and looked at the receipt with my glasses I could see in very small print that the exchange rate used was 51 baht to the pound when it was officially 54.5 and up. Went back to Global the following day to view another much larger tv but before buying I asked to speak to a manager about the exchange rate . I spoke only to a lady who was sat at a computer and she could speak English . She intimated that as I was a non Thai I would have to pay more and that the head office dictated the rate to be used . I did not buy the second tv because they refused to discount anything to compensate for the low rate and was waved goodbye by many of the unoccupied , sat around gossiping and texting staff .

Amazing Thailand

Why didn't you return the TV & got one from somewhere else if you're that annoyed

Double pricing, I vote with my feet

Can we do that in the UK? Nope, you'd end up in court or on rogue traders

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wrong. "Dynamic currency conversion" exists in the UK too, you think UK banks going to miss that trick ? Try shopping with a Euro bank card to see how often you are offered the option.

Very lucrative business. The rate is not the official Visa/Mastercard rate but the rate set by the stores own bank so the conversion will always suck.

[KhunBENQ]

Thanks for the reminder but DCC (dynamic currency conversion) is an old story.

I can't count how often I warned about in the forum.

Whenever you see a value in your home currency instead of Thai Baht (be it at an ATM or a PoS) CANCEL / DENY!

Double pricing is not the right description in this context.

The DCC swindle has not been invented by the Thais but a worldwide rippoff invented either by the local banks or the CC organizations.

The only foul play here might be that the salespersons are instructed to select payment in your (farang) currency to "do you a favor" Same swindle arguments as at the ATM displays.

Call it double pricing if you like...

But I doubt that the shops profit, but the banks.

So call it poor ignorance.

Edited August 11, 2015 by KhunBENQ

[asdecas]

You were double suckered I'm afraid: first, through not checking the exchange rate at the time of purchase and second - unless you have taken the goods back and demanded a refund, complained to the Thai body that protects consumers' rights, threatened the vendor with blackening their name on social media, legal action etc etc - they will get you a second time, in that this type of scam relies on you not having the gumption to kick up a stink.

[KhunBENQ]

I love cash and my local Thai ATM/VISA card.

Sorry I couldn't refrain.

Assume the topic starter is a temporary visitor/tourist.

[roamer]

You were double suckered I'm afraid: first, through not checking the exchange rate at the time of purchase and second - unless you have taken the goods back and demanded a refund, complained to the Thai body that protects consumers' rights, threatened the vendor with blackening their name on social media, legal action etc etc - they will get you a second time, in that this type of scam relies on you not having the gumption to kick up a stink.

Don't ask for a "refund" , attracts an even worse rate. You can ask for it to be voided, but I can imagine the problems there even if you speak Thai. Far better to complain to the bank that issues the card in the UK. They will refer it to the visa chargeback system who will refund the difference AND stick a hefty admin charge on the retailer with a warning that visa facilities can be withdrawn with future complaints.

[Mudcrab]

You were double suckered I'm afraid: first, through not checking the exchange rate at the time of purchase and second - unless you have taken the goods back and demanded a refund, complained to the Thai body that protects consumers' rights, threatened the vendor with blackening their name on social media, legal action etc etc - they will get you a second time, in that this type of scam relies on you not having the gumption to kick up a stink.

Followed closely by defamation charges, computer crimes act etc etc....good luck with your stink.

[mango66]

It is against Visa and MasterCard's merchant agreements to not allow the choice of local currency. Complain to them and they will refund the difference at the expense of the merchant.

American Express prohibits the practice entirely.

In practice it is quite dangerous for the merchant to do this. Multiple complaints of this nature can result in blacklisting, not to mention significant fines.

Regarding foreign transaction fees, Norwich and Peterborough Building Society does not charge a FTF. Many Amex cards do not either.

They not allow to add charges in abbroad,

but in home counry they use a worst xchange rate you can have !

3% and more, beside of the usual expenses !!

[csabo]

"officially 54.5" according to who?

[TheAppletons]

Definitely a Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC). What's missing from the OP, though, is whether he was asked if he'd like to pay in THB or GBP....if the OP chose to pay in GBP, that's what happens in Dynamic Currency Conversion - you get a crap rate. One should always choose to pay in the local currency.

The woman at the store who said it was because OP was non-Thai quite apparently doesn't understand DCC either.

[wvavin]

Mate, you have been taken for a ride.

[ozyjon]

Using a card especially Visa will have the exchange rate

lower than the official rate, have you just discovered that

now, i woke up to that 20 years ago, do you want a real

heart stopper, try using your card overseas or try using it

in Australia, there won't be enough paper in the country to

print all the fees and bank charges you will incur.

[Surasak]

A similar thing at global a few months ago. I had cleared a large deduction with my UK bank for building materials with Global as the amount was approx £2500.

I accompanied the builder and a member of the family and the oder was placed. When the bill was printed up I said to pay in Baht but was told a 5% charge would be added for the use of a foreign visa card. I immediately disputed this but the young lady was not to be moved saying it was their bank which made the charge. Having disputed this again, the young lady was not for moving so I cancelled the order and we made for the exit. the building materials were bought from another place in the town.

TIT

[KhunBENQ]

"officially 54.5" according to who?

According to VISA

http://www.visaeurope.com/making-payments/exchange-rates

day of transaction, 7 Aug 2015: 1 BRITISH POUND = 54.5214799638 THAI BAHT

today, 11 AUG 2015: 1 BRITISH POUND = 54.1476574998 THAI BAHT

Edited August 11, 2015 by KhunBENQ

[Doc46]

Get a thai bank account and pay in Baht with a ATM card ,,if you don't you will get screwed with the exchange,,

[KamnanT]

As earlier posters have pointed out, the Mastercard & Visa Dynamic Currency Conversions are inevitably done at a rate that is very disadvantageous to the customer, even accounting for typical "foreign exchange transaction fees" of 3% charged by the card-issuing bank.

Merchants can be quite aggressive and/or sneaky when trying to coerce customers into choosing DCC, which makes me wonder if they are sharing in the profits of this swindle. On more than one occasion (in both Singapore and Macau), I have declined DCC, only to then be handed a charge slip on which DCC has been selected. Big hassle getting the transactions voided and re-issued in local currency. And merchants always trying to tell me that DCC is "better". <deleted>.

Edited August 11, 2015 by KamnanT

[misterphil]

My UK Nationwide Visa Credit Card uses the London Foreign Exchange market. If my XE currency converter says that the exchange rate is 1GBP to 54.52 baht, then thats what I get. I also don't get charged any overseas transaction fees.

However today I was in a certain High End HiFi shop in Pattaya and they wanted to charge me 2% for using a Foreign credit card. I made up some crap about my UK bank charge me 8% for using my credit card abroad and told them its not worth it, and i'd have to think about it and come back later. The guy phoned his boss and he told me OK, if I buy now with my credit card he'll give me 10% off the speakers and 5% off the stands.

They try it on and you just have to be careful.

[misterphil]

As earlier posters have pointed out, the Mastercard & Visa Dynamic Currency Conversions are inevitably done at a rate that is very disadvantageous to the customer, even accounting for typical "foreign exchange transaction fees" of 3% charged by the card-issuing bank.

Merchants can be quite aggressive and/or sneaky when trying to coerce customers into choosing DCC, which makes me wonder if they are sharing in the profits of this swindle. On more than one occasion (in both Singapore and Macau), I have declined DCC, only to then be handed a charge slip on which DCC has been selected. Big hassle getting the transactions voided and re-issued in local currency. And merchants always trying to tell me that DCC is "better". <deleted>.

Exactly. Always go with the local currency when using cards. Use a currency converter on your phone at checkout to see the difference in home money and local.

[misterphil]

A similar thing at global a few months ago. I had cleared a large deduction with my UK bank for building materials with Global as the amount was approx £2500.

I accompanied the builder and a member of the family and the oder was placed. When the bill was printed up I said to pay in Baht but was told a 5% charge would be added for the use of a foreign visa card. I immediately disputed this but the young lady was not to be moved saying it was their bank which made the charge. Having disputed this again, the young lady was not for moving so I cancelled the order and we made for the exit. the building materials were bought from another place in the town.

TIT

Well done. Stand your ground.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Advice from a guy who has had his Visa Card Numbers stolen twice in Thailand in one year and had to replace his card from here.

Don't use your Visa Card here like you do back home!

Instead go to a bank (I favor Bangkok Bank) and draw money from your Visa Card then pay in cash. It takes about 5 minutes. The maximum now seems to be 150,000 Baht per day. Visa sets the exchange rate and I found them to be very close and fair. No charge from the bank.

In Thailand use cash as much as possible including hotel bills, and where my card numbers were stolen twice.

[taotoo]

I once changed a CAT Telecom machine's default from home currency to local currency. The staff seemed to think I'd helped them as now the 'correct' currency was showing.

[jacko45k]

They are applying an exchange at the point of sale, you should be able to just pay in baht. If they won't let you do this, take the cash out via ATM or bank counter services and pay in cash.

I wouldn't buy from there either though, if they refused to let me pay in baht.

I don't understand.

He did pay in baht.

I have only ever been offered to pay in £ or local currency in airport duty free shops, but admittedly do not use my UK CC or Debit cards outside of the UK very much.

You pay in baht and Visa set the exchange rate.

Even had he used the ATM the exchange rate would have been set by Visa, plus 180 baht local charge.

Thai banks are starting to apply an over the counter fee.

Edited August 11, 2015 by jacko45k

[superal]

Thanks for some very informative replies especially number 28 jacko45k . Seems they have got you whenever you use your card except maybe the Nationwide bank which misterphil , reply 23 stated .

BTW how do communicate here in Thailand ? I have to assume that some of you must have a decent command of the Thai language as most retail outlets and even a bank I use here have little or no understanding of English , especially at the point of sale , i.e. cash till . This is a major hurdle unless I have my lady with me. We live in North east Thailand , Surin . I guess that living in say Bangkok . Pattaya etc does not bring these problems ?

[TheAppletons]

They are applying an exchange at the point of sale, you should be able to just pay in baht. If they won't let you do this, take the cash out via ATM or bank counter services and pay in cash.

I wouldn't buy from there either though, if they refused to let me pay in baht.

I don't understand.

He did pay in baht.

I have only ever been offered to pay in £ or local currency in airport duty free shops, but admittedly do not use my UK CC or Debit cards outside of the UK very much.

You pay in baht and Visa set the exchange rate.

Even had he used the ATM the exchange rate would have been set by Visa, plus 180 baht local charge.

Thai banks are starting to apply an over the counter fee.

Uh, no, he didn't. He was told the price in THB and then paid in GBP which was why the exchange rate was applied as it was instead of simply converted on his monthly statement. As noted previously in the thread, it's called Dynamic Currency Conversion and if you find yourself in this situation you should always refuse to pay in the your own currency....pay in THB.

Edited August 12, 2015 by TheAppletons