Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[Linky]

2 men could be in jail for life and may be put to death and this is all you post about?

Wow, a real big 'incident'. How this is an incident is beyond me.

[BritTim]

2 men could be in jail for life and may be put to death and this is all you post about?

Wow, a real big 'incident'. How this is an incident is beyond me.

The incident is played up in the hope that it will inhibit donations to the defense funds, especially the one administered by Andy Hall.

[thailandchilli]

2 men could be in jail for life and may be put to death and this is all you post about?

Wow, a real big 'incident'. How this is an incident is beyond me.

The incident is played up in the hope that it will inhibit donations to the defense funds, especially the one administered by Andy Hall.

And we already know theres 3 or 4 posters who take every opportunity available to them to discredit the defense or Andy Hall.

[BritTim]

The UK media coverage of the latest trial developments has been depressingly poor. Myanmar has done a little better. This is mildly interesting:

Yesterday, an international observer from monitoring agency Solicitors International Human Rights Group complained to the judges that he was not allowed to keep a written account of the trial.

Journalists and other observers have been banned from taking notes or making any recordings since the first day of the trial. According to the Thai legal system, permission to take notes is at the discretion of the judges. Despite the complaint, the judges yesterday declined to lift the ban.

Source: http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/16047-accused-migrants-undergo-new-dna-tests.html

[JLCrab]

From the above linked Daily Mail article:

The bodies of Miss Witheridge, 23, and Mr Miller, 24, were discovered in September last year, on Koh Tao Sairee Beach. But failures to investigate vital evidence is putting the trial in jeopardy.

That is an opinion expressed by the freelance author for The Daily Mail, Richard Shears.

Yes, it represents Richard Shears' view, but the view is surely a rational one if one believes the testimony of the prosecution witnesses at the trial. Let us consider some items not investigated:

• what happened in AC Bar, the last location where Hannah and David were last known to be alive;
• who left the island on the first public boats out after the murders, as well as speedboats also thought to have left the beach just afterwards;
• whether the alleged murder weapons contained forensically significant evidence (unless one considers looking at the weapons with a magnifying glass to be a sufficient investigation).

These points are far from a comprehensive round up of the flaws in the investigation, but quite sufficient to support Richard Shears' opinion, and are all points attested to in court under oath.

I was in no way questioning the validity of Mr. Shears' opinion, just that reporting is reporting and opinion is editorial and most journalists and newspapers would be far more explicit in pointing out which is which.

Edited August 19, 2015 by JLCrab

[StealthEnergiser]

Edited August 19, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[berybert]

Yes... Irregularities in the paper work so they took DNA again! What's the deal with the mother not getting help from human rights? I didn't get that part. Hopefully there's more coverage even with the tragedy in Bangkok unfolding.

Let's get to the bottom of this and get the killers ruined.

Would this be the same human rights people who have let the police miss 4 appointments to answer questions of abuse ?

Would this be the same human rights people who said the Burmese told them they committed the crime ?

I think we can safely say these scum bags are on the same side as the RTP.

The "scumbag" was Andy Hall:

"The forlorn mother of Zaw Lin arrived alone at the court house to support her son supported by two friends, one of whom led her up the steps to the court when Human Rights Activist Andy Hall declined to help or even acknowledge her, an incident caught on a local TV camera."

Are you still clinging on AleG ? You have been discredited at every turn.

[Darkknight666]

Yes... Irregularities in the paper work so they took DNA again! What's the deal with the mother not getting help from human rights? I didn't get that part. Hopefully there's more coverage even with the tragedy in Bangkok unfolding.

Let's get to the bottom of this and get the killers ruined.

Would this be the same human rights people who have let the police miss 4 appointments to answer questions of abuse ?

Would this be the same human rights people who said the Burmese told them they committed the crime ?

I think we can safely say these scum bags are on the same side as the RTP.

The "scumbag" was Andy Hall:

"The forlorn mother of Zaw Lin arrived alone at the court house to support her son supported by two friends, one of whom led her up the steps to the court when Human Rights Activist Andy Hall declined to help or even acknowledge her, an incident caught on a local TV camera."

So media reports Andy Hall didn't go out of his way to help the mother, who was already being helped by the way, and all you can do is call Andy a "scumbag" In an underhanded way? Or was that a shot at me?

[stephenterry]

To keep right up to date with what's happening in court, here's the link that's already been supplied by 'Stealth':

https://twitter.com/Atomicalandy

I predict a landslide victory for the defence, today. Why? Because they're better prepared and more professional than any prosecution witness.

[StealthEnergiser]

[StealthEnergiser]

[boomerangutang]

Andy Hall : The swabs from the 2 accused to ascertain with certainty their DNA profiles were taken in front of multiple witnesses in the Koh Samui court

I am happy about this, now we have at least true witnesses so nobody can think it will be faked again . Let's see if they match.

Hello Balo, are both sentences quotes from Andy Hall, or is the second sentence your words? It's not clear in your post.

I too am encouraged there's some movement on the DNA trail, though it's itsy bitsy baby steps - and things which should have been done 10 months ago. The prosecution + RTP + Headman's people are still dragging their feet for all it's worth - trying to stifle DNA verification is every way they can. They're delaying, obfuscating, contradicting each other (an investigating cop testifies that some DNA items have been lost and/or used up. That evening, his boss says, "nothing has been lost." ....though that doesn't account for the missing hair). The judge appears to be singing from the same hymnal as all the other authorities who are paid by taxpayers and whose boss is the self-instated PM.

Note: The most crucial aspect of the DNA trail is: is it being compared to the actual DNA taken from Hannah? A police spokesman can stand in from of a microphone and say 'yes' with a grin - but that's not good enough for the discerning majority among us. Getting DNA from the scapegoats or from the former prime suspects is not so difficult (though maybe it is with Nomsod, who refused to comply for many days last year). However, the DNA found in/on Hannah has (supposedly) been kept in the care of RTP - the very organization which is orchestrating the cover-up. It's obvious why that data cannot be trusted. If the Brit experts ever play their hand, and it's shown that the their data differs from the RTP data, I think the judges will say, "well, they don't agree, so we're going to disregard DNA evidence." Instead (sorry for putting an opinion on top of a hypothetical) the Brits' findings should supersede the RTP findings because (A.) the Brits don't have an agenda, and (B.) The Brits have superior lab equipment and technical prowess, and have more expertise with DNA than Thais experts.

[boomerangutang]

Below is a quote by Thai newspapers, regarding proceedings in the trial, yesterday and today:

",,,,,......,,,,,"

[stephenterry]

Below is a quote by Thai newspapers, regarding proceedings in the trial, yesterday and today:

",,,,,......,,,,,"

And more balanced than is the norm here.

[StealthEnergiser]

Thai solicitor says Burmese man admitted murdering Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

A Thai solicitor has said that he was present when a Burmese man admitted raping and killing Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge and Jersey back packer David Miller.

Pittaya Yaipetch, explained in court, during the ongoing trial in Koh Samui, that one of the 22 year-old suspects from Myanmar had freely admitted following Ms Witheridge and Mr Miller in the early hours of September 15 2014, and raping and killing them.

“The suspect told the investigating police officer that he was with the co-accused on the beach at about 3am when the victims walked past them. He said they went to a place further along the beach and started kissing,” said Mr Yaipetch.

“Zaw Lin said he hit Mr Miller with a garden hoe while he was lying on top of Ms Witheridge but his victim jumped to his feet and tried to fight him off. That was when he hit him again and he fell down.

“The suspect said his friend, Wei Phyo, was punching Ms Witheridge until she fell unconscious and then he proceeded to rape her. Zaw Lin told the police that he hit Ms Witheridge in the face with the garden hoe when she began to regain consciousness, before raping her himself.

The solicitor said Zaw Lin admitted hitting her a second time with the hoe “so she could not survive and identify us.”

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/thai_solicitor_says_burmese_man_admitted_murdering_hannah_witheridge_and_david_miller_1_4199587?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

[catsanddogs]

Thai solicitor says Burmese man admitted murdering Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

A Thai solicitor has said that he was present when a Burmese man admitted raping and killing Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge and Jersey back packer David Miller.

Pittaya Yaipetch, explained in court, during the ongoing trial in Koh Samui, that one of the 22 year-old suspects from Myanmar had freely admitted following Ms Witheridge and Mr Miller in the early hours of September 15 2014, and raping and killing them.

“The suspect told the investigating police officer that he was with the co-accused on the beach at about 3am when the victims walked past them. He said they went to a place further along the beach and started kissing,” said Mr Yaipetch.

“Zaw Lin said he hit Mr Miller with a garden hoe while he was lying on top of Ms Witheridge but his victim jumped to his feet and tried to fight him off. That was when he hit him again and he fell down.

“The suspect said his friend, Wei Phyo, was punching Ms Witheridge until she fell unconscious and then he proceeded to rape her. Zaw Lin told the police that he hit Ms Witheridge in the face with the garden hoe when she began to regain consciousness, before raping her himself.

The solicitor said Zaw Lin admitted hitting her a second time with the hoe “so she could not survive and identify us.”

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/thai_solicitor_says_burmese_man_admitted_murdering_hannah_witheridge_and_david_miller_1_4199587?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

But no blood on hoe from David Miller?

From the above article

'The family of Ms Witheridge and Mr Miller were not in court to hear the detailed description of their deaths'.

Shameful reporting from the local paper, which should say 'were not in court to hear the detailed description of the alleged confession which was later retracted'.

Edited August 19, 2015 by catsanddogs

[BritTim]

Another fuller report: http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/mobile/news/thai_solicitor_says_burmese_man_admitted_murdering_hannah_witheridge_and_david_miller_1_4199587

[BritTim]

It seems the prosecution has abandoned the single blow to the back of the head combined with drowning explanation of David's murder. It is unclear if the latest version tallies any better with the details of David's wounds and lack of his blood on the alleged murder weapon.

Also, the second alleged murder weapon (wooden club) also seems to have been discarded.

Edited August 19, 2015 by BritTim

[smedly]

Thai solicitor says Burmese man admitted murdering Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

A Thai solicitor has said that he was present when a Burmese man admitted raping and killing Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge and Jersey back packer David Miller.

Pittaya Yaipetch, explained in court, during the ongoing trial in Koh Samui, that one of the 22 year-old suspects from Myanmar had freely admitted following Ms Witheridge and Mr Miller in the early hours of September 15 2014, and raping and killing them.

“The suspect told the investigating police officer that he was with the co-accused on the beach at about 3am when the victims walked past them. He said they went to a place further along the beach and started kissing,” said Mr Yaipetch.

“Zaw Lin said he hit Mr Miller with a garden hoe while he was lying on top of Ms Witheridge but his victim jumped to his feet and tried to fight him off. That was when he hit him again and he fell down.

“The suspect said his friend, Wei Phyo, was punching Ms Witheridge until she fell unconscious and then he proceeded to rape her. Zaw Lin told the police that he hit Ms Witheridge in the face with the garden hoe when she began to regain consciousness, before raping her himself.

The solicitor said Zaw Lin admitted hitting her a second time with the hoe “so she could not survive and identify us.”

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/thai_solicitor_says_burmese_man_admitted_murdering_hannah_witheridge_and_david_miller_1_4199587?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

two observations

1. Unless this man speaks Burmese then his testimony is inaccurate, if what he is saying is what he heard it is likely to have been through the interpreter - which means he did not hear them say this, the interpreter heard it and relayed that is what they said, some might see this as a mute point but I don't and the fact that the interviews were not recorded there is no way to verify.

2. They have had plenty of time to fabricate this testimony and as stated above there is no way to verify it

I could go on but I've made my point

still not convinced of guilt or innocence just stating what I see

Edited August 19, 2015 by smedly

[balo]

boomrangutang: However, the DNA found in/on Hannah has (supposedly) been kept in the care of RTP - the very organization which is orchestrating the cover-up.

Well this is where we disagree, I do not believe that all of RTP , including the special investigators in Bangkok and the DNA labs are all orchestrating a cover-up. That some corrupted officials on the island could try to cover up something does not mean that all of them are doing it, this has been discussed before and we will always disagree on this , unlike you I still have some trust in some of the people working for the RTP. Having said that , if DNA is a match it will be difficult for the court to sentence them without more specific evidences.

Edited August 19, 2015 by balo

[sweatalot]

Andy Hall : The swabs from the 2 accused to ascertain with certainty their DNA profiles were taken in front of multiple witnesses in the Koh Samui court

I am happy about this, now we have at least true witnesses so nobody can think it will be faked again . Let's see if they match.

Hello Balo, are both sentences quotes from Andy Hall, or is the second sentence your words? It's not clear in your post.

I too am encouraged there's some movement on the DNA trail, though it's itsy bitsy baby steps - and things which should have been done 10 months ago. The prosecution + RTP + Headman's people are still dragging their feet for all it's worth - trying to stifle DNA verification is every way they can. They're delaying, obfuscating, contradicting each other (an investigating cop testifies that some DNA items have been lost and/or used up. That evening, his boss says, "nothing has been lost." ....though that doesn't account for the missing hair). The judge appears to be singing from the same hymnal as all the other authorities who are paid by taxpayers and whose boss is the self-instated PM.

Note: The most crucial aspect of the DNA trail is: is it being compared to the actual DNA taken from Hannah? A police spokesman can stand in from of a microphone and say 'yes' with a grin - but that's not good enough for the discerning majority among us. Getting DNA from the scapegoats or from the former prime suspects is not so difficult (though maybe it is with Nomsod, who refused to comply for many days last year). However, the DNA found in/on Hannah has (supposedly) been kept in the care of RTP - the very organization which is orchestrating the cover-up. It's obvious why that data cannot be trusted. If the Brit experts ever play their hand, and it's shown that the their data differs from the RTP data, I think the judges will say, "well, they don't agree, so we're going to disregard DNA evidence." Instead (sorry for putting an opinion on top of a hypothetical) the Brits' findings should supersede the RTP findings because (A.) the Brits don't have an agenda, and (B.) The Brits have superior lab equipment and technical prowess, and have more expertise with DNA than Thais experts.

agree with most of your post - but you couldn't hold back bringing the PM in, could you

[stephenterry]

It seems the prosecution has abandoned the single blow to the back of the head combined with drowning explanation of David's murder. It is unclear if the latest version tallies any better with the details of David's wounds and lack of his blood on the alleged murder weapon.

Also, the second alleged murder weapon (wooden club) also seems to have been discarded.

What matters is how much credence is given by the court to this version delivered by a solicitor. As there is no recorded transcript of the 'interview' who knows whether the statement is factual or not.

Does the revamped scenario really make sense? Does whatever evidence is disclosed, match it? Anyone following this from the beginning would have questions re the credibility.

[JLCrab]

< snip >

two observations

1. Unless this man speaks Burmese then his testimony is inaccurate, if what he is saying is what he heard it is likely to have been through the interpreter - which means he did not hear them say this, the interpreter heard it and relayed that is what they said, some might see this as a mute point but I don't and the fact that the interviews were not recorded there is no way to verify.

< snip 2 >

Maybe they all spoke English:

Increasing numbers of Burmese staff the bars and restaurants, in part due to their competent English – an educational legacy of British rule in their home country.

23 NOV 2014 http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/23/briton-thailand-murder-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-mystery-mafia-fear

[Lorn]

Thai solicitor says Burmese man admitted murdering Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

A Thai solicitor has said that he was present when a Burmese man admitted raping and killing Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge and Jersey back packer David Miller.

Pittaya Yaipetch, explained in court, during the ongoing trial in Koh Samui, that one of the 22 year-old suspects from Myanmar had freely admitted following Ms Witheridge and Mr Miller in the early hours of September 15 2014, and raping and killing them.

“The suspect told the investigating police officer that he was with the co-accused on the beach at about 3am when the victims walked past them. He said they went to a place further along the beach and started kissing,” said Mr Yaipetch.

“Zaw Lin said he hit Mr Miller with a garden hoe while he was lying on top of Ms Witheridge but his victim jumped to his feet and tried to fight him off. That was when he hit him again and he fell down.

“The suspect said his friend, Wei Phyo, was punching Ms Witheridge until she fell unconscious and then he proceeded to rape her. Zaw Lin told the police that he hit Ms Witheridge in the face with the garden hoe when she began to regain consciousness, before raping her himself.

The solicitor said Zaw Lin admitted hitting her a second time with the hoe “so she could not survive and identify us.”

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/thai_solicitor_says_burmese_man_admitted_murdering_hannah_witheridge_and_david_miller_1_4199587?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

But no blood on hoe from David Miller?

From the above article

'The family of Ms Witheridge and Mr Miller were not in court to hear the detailed description of their deaths'.

Shameful reporting from the local paper, which should say 'were not in court to hear the detailed description of the alleged confession which was later retracted'.

Nor any of David's blood on her despite him being struck while on top of her. Also no explanation for the stabbing type wounds. Even the roti-seller knew/knows the story makes no sense so added the bits about a wine bottle being used. Oh and there's no way Ms Witheridge was only hit twice.

[BritTim]

It seems the prosecution has abandoned the single blow to the back of the head combined with drowning explanation of David's murder. It is unclear if the latest version tallies any better with the details of David's wounds and lack of his blood on the alleged murder weapon.

Also, the second alleged murder weapon (wooden club) also seems to have been discarded.

What matters is how much credence is given by the court to this version delivered by a solicitor. As there is no recorded transcript of the 'interview' who knows whether the statement is factual or not.

Does the revamped scenario really make sense? Does whatever evidence is disclosed, match it? Anyone following this from the beginning would have questions re the credibility.

I have a feeling that we may need to wait until after the trial is over and the judge has time to create the trial record to know what the final version will be. They probably want to hear what the defense have up their sleeve before deciding. It may be an advantage to have a few different versions to choose from while stating as little as possible that can easily be contradicted.

[thailandchilli]

Another fuller report: http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/mobile/news/thai_solicitor_says_burmese_man_admitted_murdering_hannah_witheridge_and_david_miller_1_4199587

Disturbing revelations in that report regards the alleged psychological & physical torture they suffered to extract the confessions. Surprise surprise no doctor available to inspect the bruises on Wei Phyo's face. Not surprising why the RTP refused on countless occasions to show up for the meetings with the Human Rights to explain the allegations. A sign of absolute GUILT

Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo, both immigrant workers from Myanmar, say they were told they would be burned; have parts of their bodies chopped off; be put in plastic bags and their bodies dumped at sea. They say that is why they continued to admit their guilt until an interview with human rights lawyers while they were on remand in Koh Samui prison. They also claim they were hit by police and the translator working for the police. The translator is also due to testify in court today.

Police on the mainland did say during the trial yesterday that they had called for a doctor to examine bruising on Wei Phyo’s face but “no doctor was available”.

Following his arrest and interrogation, Zaw Lin was taken to hospital by police officers complaining of bruising and chest pain. The medical director of the government hospital in Nathon, on Koh Samui, said he conducted a CT scan on the suspect and identified possible injury to his rib cartilage.

However when Doctor Chan Chai was asked in court how such an injury might be sustained, he said he didn’t know. He also said he had an injury to his wrists for which he also didn’t know the cause. http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/mobile/news/thai_solicitor_says_burmese_man_admitted_murdering_hannah_witheridge_and_david_miller_1_4199587

Edited August 19, 2015 by thailandchilli

[catsanddogs]

http://news.sky.com/story/1538057/backpacker-murder-suspect-confession-was-free

[Darkknight666]

boomrangutang: However, the DNA found in/on Hannah has (supposedly) been kept in the care of RTP - the very organization which is orchestrating the cover-up.

Well this is where we disagree, I do not believe that all of RTP , including the special investigators in Bangkok and the DNA labs are all orchestrating a cover-up. That some corrupted officials on the island could try to cover up something does not mean that all of them are doing it, this has been discussed before and we will always disagree on this , unlike you I still have some trust in some of the people working for the RTP. Having said that , if DNA is a match it will be difficult for the court to sentence them without more specific evidences.

Well Balo, what that means is you believe the DNA actually made it to the lab without being contaminated/corrupted. DNA labs? It was only sent to the police lab, why "labs"? Between this "trial" and the recent bombing in BKK police are showing that they're not trained nor equipped for major investigations, much less competent or accountable. Look at the Red Bull case, Kristy Jones case Anna Reese etc. etc. you start to realize a pattern.... I see that same pattern on the investigation/proceedings in the case at hand.

Actually, they have kind of given themselves a perfect explanation as to why Justice can't be served, because they contaminated the scene from the get-go and hardly bothered to check vital evidence on multiple occasions... Now that key evidence is likely "used up" or "no budget" and the truth is drifting further with each passing day.

Pretty disgusting, Really. Nothing will change, investigations will still be half cocked, evidence will still go with the wind.

[sweatalot]

Another fuller report: http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/mobile/news/thai_solicitor_says_burmese_man_admitted_murdering_hannah_witheridge_and_david_miller_1_4199587

Disturbing revelations in that report regards the alleged psychological & physical torture they suffered to extract the confessions. Surprise surprise no doctor available to inspect the bruises on Wei Phyo's face. Not surprising why the RTP refused on countless occasions to show up for the meetings with the Human Rights to explain the allegations. A sign of absolute GUILT

Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo, both immigrant workers from Myanmar, say they were told they would be burned; have parts of their bodies chopped off; be put in plastic bags and their bodies dumped at sea. They say that is why they continued to admit their guilt until an interview with human rights lawyers while they were on remand in Koh Samui prison. They also claim they were hit by police and the translator working for the police. The translator is also due to testify in court today.

Police on the mainland did say during the trial yesterday that they had called for a doctor to examine bruising on Wei Phyo’s face but “no doctor was available”.

Following his arrest and interrogation, Zaw Lin was taken to hospital by police officers complaining of bruising and chest pain. The medical director of the government hospital in Nathon, on Koh Samui, said he conducted a CT scan on the suspect and identified possible injury to his rib cartilage.

However when Doctor Chan Chai was asked in court how such an injury might be sustained, he said he didn’t know. He also said he had an injury to his wrists for which he also didn’t know the cause. http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/mobile/news/thai_solicitor_says_burmese_man_admitted_murdering_hannah_witheridge_and_david_miller_1_4199587

how such an injury might be sustained, he said he didn’t know. He also said he had an injury to his wrists for which he also didn’t know the cause.

may be the B2 know the cause. Have they been asked?

[Darkknight666]

Another fuller report: http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/mobile/news/thai_solicitor_says_burmese_man_admitted_murdering_hannah_witheridge_and_david_miller_1_4199587

Disturbing revelations in that report regards the alleged psychological & physical torture they suffered to extract the confessions. Surprise surprise no doctor available to inspect the bruises on Wei Phyo's face. Not surprising why the RTP refused on countless occasions to show up for the meetings with the Human Rights to explain the allegations. A sign of absolute GUILT

Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo, both immigrant workers from Myanmar, say they were told they would be burned; have parts of their bodies chopped off; be put in plastic bags and their bodies dumped at sea. They say that is why they continued to admit their guilt until an interview with human rights lawyers while they were on remand in Koh Samui prison. They also claim they were hit by police and the translator working for the police. The translator is also due to testify in court today.

Police on the mainland did say during the trial yesterday that they had called for a doctor to examine bruising on Wei Phyos face but no doctor was available.

Following his arrest and interrogation, Zaw Lin was taken to hospital by police officers complaining of bruising and chest pain. The medical director of the government hospital in Nathon, on Koh Samui, said he conducted a CT scan on the suspect and identified possible injury to his rib cartilage.

However when Doctor Chan Chai was asked in court how such an injury might be sustained, he said he didnt know. He also said he had an injury to his wrists for which he also didnt know the cause. http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/mobile/news/thai_solicitor_says_burmese_man_admitted_murdering_hannah_witheridge_and_david_miller_1_4199587

I remember banging on about how the B2 would confess to the first lawyers due to the torture.. Surprise, Surprise that's exactly what seemed to happen. The Doc wouldn't say how the injuries were caused because that would put him in danger.. Of course he has a good idea what happened by the indication of the CT scan.