Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[frank83628]

a few things that you probably dont know as guessing none of you have actually been to Koh Tao as it full of young people…….

the reason there isnt any local witness's coming forward is because this happened on a sunday/monday early hours when 98% of locals would have been sleeping…the only people out n about at that time especially in Ac bar would have been tourists…

for this reason the press with some very unprofessional reporting would jump onto any whisper or rumour they heard just to print something…

AC bar is a bar frequented by tourists and local thais and nobody really goes down there because the night life is mainly at the other end.

there was a football tournament on the island at the time, i dont know if it was just surat region or others but multiple teams of none Tao thai lads on the island.

by 10:00 am 5 boats left the island potentially carrying upto 1000 people.

the entire south end of the beach is owned by the same family so all the CCTV given is from them….(why give clips containing images of their family members?)

do you really think that Thailand would let itself be dragged through the international mud by a family of "gypsies"??

if said family is so powerful & connected would they dump 2 bodies on their door step for all this shit to happen and put them all in the media spotlight??

why not use 1 of their many boats to dump them at sea or just disappear ??

with regards to the B2..you can't say they are innocent on their looks or build…I've seen 3 totally destroy a hugh mouthy american (who deserved it).

an unsuspecting punch or a hit with a stick…once down you will more than likely lose.

seam Mc anna was a BSer and compulsive liar after his 15 minutes of fame….if he was involved then CSI LA and sky news are complicit in aiding his escape….maybe he did do it!!

i dont have an opinion if the B2 did it because i dont know the facts, but unlike some of you i dont listen to all the gossip and state it as fact.

when provided with photographic evidence to NS being in bkk it was dismissed by some as faked as with the DNA….yet no evidence to prove the B2 are innocent as of yet…but they are cause its a cover up!!

what it is a is a mess by police that were completely un prepared for this type of event or to deal with it…being the sleepy nature of Koh Tao compared to the neighbouring islands

[sweatalot]

I understand UK's commitment issue but what about Fair justice and some sort of way to sort his out for a fair judgement. Im sure there are plenty of ways out.

It won't happen here. That's a given. It may come as a surprise to you but Thailand isn't renowned for any fair justice. Unless you buy it.

Thailand has the best justice system money can buy.

[loonodingle]

Does this look staged to any of you??

[loonodingle]

Why would you NOT check this for finger prints and DNA of the murderer??

[IslandLover]

a few things that you probably dont know as guessing none of you have actually been to Koh Tao as it full of young people…….

the reason there isnt any local witness's coming forward is because this happened on a sunday/monday early hours when 98% of locals would have been sleeping…the only people out n about at that time especially in Ac bar would have been tourists…

for this reason the press with some very unprofessional reporting would jump onto any whisper or rumour they heard just to print something…

AC bar is a bar frequented by tourists and local thais and nobody really goes down there because the night life is mainly at the other end.

there was a football tournament on the island at the time, i dont know if it was just surat region or others but multiple teams of none Tao thai lads on the island.

by 10:00 am 5 boats left the island potentially carrying upto 1000 people.

the entire south end of the beach is owned by the same family so all the CCTV given is from them….(why give clips containing images of their family members?)

do you really think that Thailand would let itself be dragged through the international mud by a family of "gypsies"??

if said family is so powerful & connected would they dump 2 bodies on their door step for all this shit to happen and put them all in the media spotlight??

why not use 1 of their many boats to dump them at sea or just disappear ??

with regards to the B2..you can't say they are innocent on their looks or build…I've seen 3 totally destroy a hugh mouthy american (who deserved it).

an unsuspecting punch or a hit with a stick…once down you will more than likely lose.

seam Mc anna was a BSer and compulsive liar after his 15 minutes of fame….if he was involved then CSI LA and sky news are complicit in aiding his escape….maybe he did do it!!

i dont have an opinion if the B2 did it because i dont know the facts, but unlike some of you i dont listen to all the gossip and state it as fact.

when provided with photographic evidence to NS being in bkk it was dismissed by some as faked as with the DNA….yet no evidence to prove the B2 are innocent as of yet…but they are cause its a cover up!!

what it is a is a mess by police that were completely un prepared for this type of event or to deal with it…being the sleepy nature of Koh Tao compared to the neighbouring islands

a few things that you probably dont know as guessing none of you have actually been to Koh Tao as it full of young people……

Well I have - more than once. And, I was not so young when I went there.

do you really think that Thailand would let itself be dragged through the international mud by a family of "gypsies"??

A family of gypsies?? Wow, this must be the first time I have ever seen anyone on this forum describe the Toovichien family as gypsies!

The rest of your post is merely an assumption, like the two examples quoted above. However, you are right when you say the local police were out of their depth, especially when you know they let 5 ferries leave by 10:00 a.m. without checking who was on them.

Further,

if said family is so powerful & connected would they dump 2 bodies on their door step for all this shit to happen and put them all in the media spotlight??

why not use 1 of their many boats to dump them at sea or just disappear ??

Because whoever did this vile crime wanted to leave a message. The crime scene was staged IMO.

[Dogmatix]

Justice Green revealed sufficient of the British police report for us get a flavour of how shamelessly they behaved on this assignment. Just one example is the vicious lie that Justice Green apparently had no problem digesting,himself, to the effect that the 2B repeated their 'confessions' in the Samui court with their lawyers present. I recall they were taken to the court at some point after the forced re-enactment and there was a photograph taken there of them with the two pancake sellers who double up as police torture assistants and illiterate translators. However, this took place long before they even met their lawyers. Who knows what the pancake men claimed the suspects said on that occasion but it was clearly irrelevant to the case. Not only that but it was public information and British police would have known the chronology of this incident relative to the appointment of the defendants lawyers from the copious public sources that were and still are available in English on the case.

It is hard to imagine that even British plods could be so stupid as to do this unintentionally. They made a deliberate misrepresentation of facts in a way that could assist in a wrongful conviction in a capital trial. Even assisting foreign police In a neutral way in a capital case is prohibited but this was collaboration by reporting something they knew or should have known to be untrue. It is inconceivable to me that anyone outside the Thai system of intimidation would have done this for no personal gain. The British embassy should be ordered to request cooperation from Thai banks to see if any nice little nest eggs suddenly appeared in the names of any of them or of their close associates.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Dogmatix

[frank83628]

yes..the first settlers were first called sea gypsies…i used the word as referring them being an insignificant family( not to be taken literally) from a tiny island, would they be allowed to drag the international image of thailand through this?

left a message to who…tourists that are only here for a week or so??…

what parts of my post are assumptions??

what parts of any of your posts are anything more??

[boomerangutang]

I could reduce myself to throwing gratuitous insults and accusations as a substitute for cogent argumentation; that would be worse, but I have standards.

We've seen your standards: it's do and say all sorts of balderdash to try and shield NS and Mon and others connected to the Headman.

Anyone thinking AleG and other RTP echoers will admit they're wrong if/when facts prove they're wrong - it won't happen. Nothing short of a tearful admittance of guilt by the likely real culprits (a.k.a. former prime suspects) will convince him he's barking up the wrong tree. ....and even then he would hedge.

As for British authorities getting it wrong by writing the B2 "confessed in court in front of a judge". I don't think the Brits intentionally skewed the reality. Rather, I think they made another dumb mistake predicated, at least in part, on the naive assumption: their RTP minder tells no lies.

[boomerangutang]

10 hours in a Thai courtroom. No notetaking, no recording of testimony of any kind - what a drag. And there's the uniformed disciplinarian who skulks around inside - berating anyone who is so rude as to cross his/her legs or arms - or otherwise not show sustained respect for the court.

[IslandLover]

yes..the first settlers were first called sea gypsies…i used the word as referring them being an insignificant family( not to be taken literally) from a tiny island, would they be allowed to drag the international image of thailand through this?

left a message to who…tourists that are only here for a week or so??…

what parts of my post are assumptions??

what parts of any of your posts are anything more??

Yes, most of the posts on this forum are assumptions and opinions, just as yours is.

Yes, I know the first settlers on Koh Tao were sea gypsies, but why mention it in connection with the Toovichien family? You merely said "gypsies" and not "sea gypsies". By using the word "gypsy" you make it sound like they are illiterate peasants. I'm sure they would be happy with that description - not.

As to the "message" that was left at the crime scene, quite simply whoever did this felt they were beyond the reach of the law in Thailand and did not feel the need to cover their tracks. They also had a "this is what happens when we lose face" attitude which was evidenced by the way Hannah's face was disfigured and the obscene pose her body was left in. That's just my opinion of course. Perhaps a more simple explanation would be that there was no time for the perpetrators to properly dispose of the bodies.

Edited August 27, 2015 by IslandLover

[loonodingle]

Breaking News

Koh Tao murder trial: Defendents did not have representation during interrogations, court hears

Thai Police have confirmed the two defendants in the Koh Tao murder trial did not have any legal representation when they were confessing to the killings of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge and fellow British backpacker David Miller.

Police Colonel Prathoom Ruangtong, who initially took charge of the investigation, after the bodies of the pair were found on Sairee Beach in Koh Tao, last September, confirmed the two Burmese immigrant workers had not been provided with their own lawyers.

Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo, both aged 22, are alleged to have confessed separately to the crimes, but they both maintain they were threatened and tortured to admit their guilt. They both retracted their confessions after they were charged.

Trial judges on the neighbouring island of Koh Samui, have been hearing evidence from prosecution witnesses since early July, and it will be the turn of the pro-bono defence lawyers to present their evidence from next week.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/koh_tao_murder_trial_defendents_did_not_have_representation_during_interrogations_court_hears_1_4211590

Edited August 27, 2015 by loonodingle

[bamukloy]

In essence the report should be confidential as per the agreement.

However, that changed when the families spoke out about the agreement and made a statement that the accused had a strong case to answer. Once they made such a prejudicial statement the defence has a right of response by being provided the same information. Not providing them with that information goes against the interests of natural justice.

Further, the agreement was that the police play no role whatsoever in the investigation, observers only. Now it is known the actively interviewed people they broke that agreement. In doing so they also broke the govt policy of no involvement because the death penalty was in play.

As those officers found it necessary to interview people they then become part of the case and should be listed as witnesses for the prosecution. In the very least the defense should request a summons for those officers to be compelled to give evidence.

You people seem to think this case is being held in an English speaking country.

If foreigners were to take the stand how would it be known who could understand them?

Probably a good portion of the courtroom would have no idea what they were on about.

Many of the countries previous prems speak jibberish English and Prayuth is no different.

And translators..well...pancake flippers.hmmm

[WHITEROCKGIRL]

10 hours in a Thai courtroom. No notetaking, no recording of testimony of any kind - what a drag. And there's the uniformed disciplinarian who skulks around inside - berating anyone who is so rude as to cross his/her legs or arms - or otherwise not show sustained respect for the court.

I take it you are attending the trial then ?

[AleG]

I could reduce myself to throwing gratuitous insults and accusations as a substitute for cogent argumentation; that would be worse, but I have standards.

We've seen your standards: it's do and say all sorts of balderdash to try and shield NS and Mon and others connected to the Headman.

Anyone thinking AleG and other RTP echoers will admit they're wrong if/when facts prove they're wrong - it won't happen. Nothing short of a tearful admittance of guilt by the likely real culprits (a.k.a. former prime suspects) will convince him he's barking up the wrong tree. ....and even then he would hedge.

As for British authorities getting it wrong by writing the B2 "confessed in court in front of a judge". I don't think the Brits intentionally skewed the reality. Rather, I think they made another dumb mistake predicated, at least in part, on the naive assumption: their RTP minder tells no lies.

"Anyone thinking AleG and other RTP echoers will admit they're wrong if/when facts prove they're wrong"

A purely theoretical scenario for you, since you have never proved me wrong about anything whatsoever. On the other hand I know very well your standard reaction to being proven wrong, as I've done repeatedly: you continue to peddle the same disproved "facts" with complete disregard for reality.

[berybert]

Breaking News

Koh Tao murder trial: Defendents did not have representation during interrogations, court hears

Thai Police have confirmed the two defendants in the Koh Tao murder trial did not have any legal representation when they were confessing to the killings of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge and fellow British backpacker David Miller.

Police Colonel Prathoom Ruangtong, who initially took charge of the investigation, after the bodies of the pair were found on Sairee Beach in Koh Tao, last September, confirmed the two Burmese immigrant workers had not been provided with their own lawyers.

Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo, both aged 22, are alleged to have confessed separately to the crimes, but they both maintain they were threatened and tortured to admit their guilt. They both retracted their confessions after they were charged.

Trial judges on the neighbouring island of Koh Samui, have been hearing evidence from prosecution witnesses since early July, and it will be the turn of the pro-bono defence lawyers to present their evidence from next week.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/koh_tao_murder_trial_defendents_did_not_have_representation_during_interrogations_court_hears_1_4211590

Your breaking news is 11 months vintage. That they didn't have a lawyer during their first interrogation has been known since that day or thereabouts.

The only new information in that report is the confirmation that it was David Miller's phone the one found near their lodgings and which the defendants admit of having since the night of the murders. You must be feeling relieved I didn't humor your wager over that.

I think until we see written confirmation or hear someone from Britain say it was David Miller's phone then it is just hear say.

Why is it you accept everything the RTP say as fact even if there is nothing to back it up.

[loonodingle]

Your breaking news is 11 months vintage. That they didn't have a lawyer during their first interrogation has been known since that day or thereabouts.

The only new information in that report is the confirmation that it was David Miller's phone the one found near their lodgings and which the defendants admit of having since the night of the murders. You must be feeling relieved I didn't humor your wager over that.

I think until we see written confirmation or hear someone from Britain say it was David Miller's phone then it is just hear say.

Why is it you accept everything the RTP say as fact even if there is nothing to back it up.

The NCA only accepts requests in writing. It responds in writing. Its not done by a phone call..

Can anyone prove otherwise??? I don't think so

[berybert]

Your breaking news is 11 months vintage. That they didn't have a lawyer during their first interrogation has been known since that day or thereabouts.

The only new information in that report is the confirmation that it was David Miller's phone the one found near their lodgings and which the defendants admit of having since the night of the murders. You must be feeling relieved I didn't humor your wager over that.

I think until we see written confirmation or hear someone from Britain say it was David Miller's phone then it is just hear say.

Why is it you accept everything the RTP say as fact even if there is nothing to back it up.

The NCA only accepts requests in writing. It responds in writing. Its not done by a phone call..

Can anyone prove otherwise??? I don't think so

But the nice police man said it and AleG believes him.

Kinda sums them both up.

[loonodingle]

Your breaking news is 11 months vintage. That they didn't have a lawyer during their first interrogation has been known since that day or thereabouts.

The only new information in that report is the confirmation that it was David Miller's phone the one found near their lodgings and which the defendants admit of having since the night of the murders. You must be feeling relieved I didn't humor your wager over that.

I think until we see written confirmation or hear someone from Britain say it was David Miller's phone then it is just hear say.

Why is it you accept everything the RTP say as fact even if there is nothing to back it up.

The NCA only accepts requests in writing. It responds in writing. Its not done by a phone call..

Can anyone prove otherwise??? I don't think so

But the nice police man said it and AleG believes him.

Kinda sums them both up.

Oh Yeah Solly Nah... I forgot he like thai polee mun Vely much.

You want evidence hey!!!!!!!!

Yeah I called them up I did.. Trust me.. I called them and they said yep its his.... I said well that's good enough for me.. Would you like it in writing a fax and email. Perhaps on embassy paper. Signed as certified like I do for the other papers... I said Nahh it ok M8.. I will tell them its all sorted.

Yeah right PMSL if it wasn't so serious

[BritTim]

yes..the first settlers were first called sea gypsies…i used the word as referring them being an insignificant family( not to be taken literally) from a tiny island, would they be allowed to drag the international image of thailand through this?

left a message to who…tourists that are only here for a week or so??…

what parts of my post are assumptions??

what parts of any of your posts are anything more??

This is my best guess as to what happened.

I think there is evidence of criminal activities on Koh Tao (as in the other islands) where influential local families and the local police operate together as a criminal enterprise. When this crime occurred, if members of the syndicate were involved, there would be a shared interest in sabotaging the investigation. At national level, they wanted the crime solved. The police chief and PM were only too willing to accept scapegoats delivered by the local crime syndicate. Would the local family be allowed to drag the international image of Thailand through this? Only through incompetence and a failure to sideline the local police from the investigation.

[berybert]

Your breaking news is 11 months vintage. That they didn't have a lawyer during their first interrogation has been known since that day or thereabouts.

The only new information in that report is the confirmation that it was David Miller's phone the one found near their lodgings and which the defendants admit of having since the night of the murders. You must be feeling relieved I didn't humor your wager over that.

I think until we see written confirmation or hear someone from Britain say it was David Miller's phone then it is just hear say.

Why is it you accept everything the RTP say as fact even if there is nothing to back it up.

The NCA only accepts requests in writing. It responds in writing. Its not done by a phone call..

Can anyone prove otherwise??? I don't think so

But the nice police man said it and AleG believes him.

Kinda sums them both up.

Oh Yeah Solly Nah... I forgot he like thai polee mun Vely much.

You want evidence hey!!!!!!!!

Yeah I called them up I did.. Trust me.. I called them and they said yep its his.... I said well that's good enough for me.. Would you like it in writing a fax and email. Perhaps on embassy paper. Signed as certified like I do for the other papers... I said Nahh it ok M8.. I will tell them its all sorted.

Yeah right PMSL if it wasn't so serious

So we still have nothing to link the Burmese to the crime other than some men in tight fitting uniforms telling lies.

[BritTim]

Oh Yeah Solly Nah... I forgot he like thai polee mun Vely much.

You want evidence hey!!!!!!!!

Yeah I called them up I did.. Trust me.. I called them and they said yep its his.... I said well that's good enough for me.. Would you like it in writing a fax and email. Perhaps on embassy paper. Signed as certified like I do for the other papers... I said Nahh it ok M8.. I will tell them its all sorted.

Yeah right PMSL if it wasn't so serious

No doubt, they had a Skype video call. The Thai copper held up the SIM card and his UK counterpart said "yep, that belonged to David Miller". There was no need to complicate matters with any written correspondence.

[berybert]

How many of these coppers should be locked up for contempt if court.

[loonodingle]

Come on its a bloody murder trial and the evidence is well I made a phone call. Really how low can this case sink to before someone says hey I have had enough of this?

And where is ALeG when u need him??????? Hellooooooo r u there AliG

What sort of a prosecution are ya mates running where they think they do not need documentary evidence to confirm what they say in a murder trial.

Crikey I couldn't even get married in Thailand without a certified copy stamped and signed in the embassy and then down to chang wattana I think to legalise it (should remember I have done it 3 times now) yet the system is so rotten that they just turn up and say yep I called this guy and he said it was David's phone and sim card.

God Give Me Strength...

[loonodingle]

How many of these coppers should be locked up for contempt if court.

I lost count when I ran out of fingers. cant be bothered to take my socks of B/B

[smedly]

How many of these coppers should be locked up for contempt if court.

it really is beyond comprehension, if I was one of the three judges I'd have lost it 10 trial days ago, this case fails to meet even the most basic fundamental international standards, and this guy AleG thinks it's all good ? seriously

Edited August 27, 2015 by smedly

[IslandLover]

10 hours in a Thai courtroom. No notetaking, no recording of testimony of any kind - what a drag. And there's the uniformed disciplinarian who skulks around inside - berating anyone who is so rude as to cross his/her legs or arms - or otherwise not show sustained respect for the court.

I take it you are attending the trial then ?

He got the information from someone who was/is at the trial.

Edited August 27, 2015 by IslandLover

[bamukloy]

So far, this trial has been a non-event - as is today. The main prosecution case relates to the DNA evidence that hasn't been mentioned to date. Can they validate their assertions that the B2 profiles match the female victim? Surely that's priority?

Instead we have a 'confession' since retracted, an unlawful (following the retraction) 're-enactment' and today, a 'phone' that may or may not belong to the male victim. Plus a guy who said he interrogated one of the B2, presumably to gain the 'conviction'.

There's always tomorrow...

And the prosecutor sent the case back how many times? 3? 4?

In light of what has been displayed by the prosecution in this "perfect case", it would seem more feasable to me that every time it got sent back, they wanted stuff OMITTED..not added.

(In terms of "no, we are not having this in the public domain-SCRAP IT")

[JLCrab]

10 hours in a Thai courtroom. No notetaking, no recording of testimony of any kind - what a drag. And there's the uniformed disciplinarian who skulks around inside - berating anyone who is so rude as to cross his/her legs or arms - or otherwise not show sustained respect for the court.

I take it you are attending the trial then ?

He got the information from someone who was/is at the trial.

He doesn't have to be there:

"I can picture the senior police inspector explaining to the judges what's going on. Something like.... "

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/849310-koh-tao-murder-trial-reconvenes-in-koh-samui/?view=findpost&p=9760695

Edited August 27, 2015 by JLCrab

[loonodingle]

I can picture the senior police inspector explaining to the judges what's going on. Something like. ......

Officer on video: "Raise your arm, Wai"

(suspect on video raises his arm)

Officer in court: "you can now plainly see the suspect raising his arm as if he had the murder weapon hoe, and is about to hit David with the sharp end."

Officer on video: "Wai, make a threatening noise."

suspect on video: "Arghhh!"

Officer in court: "You can now see, your honor, the suspect is very aroused by seeing two farang kissing, and he's about to bash in the head of the farang."

Judge: "But you say your forensics found none of David's blood on the hoe."

Officer in court: "Everything is mutable, your honor. We're all Buddhists here. Use your imagination."

And the sad thing is if it wasn't about justice for 2 people dead and 2 more who may die then it would be funny.

Only in Thailand?....never ceases to amaze me.

[z42]

Breaking News

Koh Tao murder trial: Defendents did not have representation during interrogations, court hears

Thai Police have confirmed the two defendants in the Koh Tao murder trial did not have any legal representation when they were confessing to the killings of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge and fellow British backpacker David Miller.

Police Colonel Prathoom Ruangtong, who initially took charge of the investigation, after the bodies of the pair were found on Sairee Beach in Koh Tao, last September, confirmed the two Burmese immigrant workers had not been provided with their own lawyers.

Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo, both aged 22, are alleged to have confessed separately to the crimes, but they both maintain they were threatened and tortured to admit their guilt. They both retracted their confessions after they were charged.

Trial judges on the neighbouring island of Koh Samui, have been hearing evidence from prosecution witnesses since early July, and it will be the turn of the pro-bono defence lawyers to present their evidence from next week.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/koh_tao_murder_trial_defendents_did_not_have_representation_during_interrogations_court_hears_1_4211590

Good post, another glaring contradiction is that an RTP witness a few weeks back claimed to have not checked the pier CCTV whereas this other RTP witness yesterday claimed they did check it and it showed nothing.

This is outrageous, which one is it? Either one or both of them are lying, also I agree with some later posts about david's phone. Just a verbal claim that it was from a nameless person who can't be contacted to verify. Pathetic