Experts: Trump, Ramos confrontation shouldn't be a surprise

[webfact]

Experts: Trump, Ramos confrontation shouldn't be a surprise
By DAVID BAUDER

NEW YORK (AP) — Donald Trump's onscreen confrontation with Univision's Jorge Ramos on Tuesday over the Republican presidential candidate's immigration plan should only be a surprise to those who don't know Ramos.

The 57-year-old news anchor has a history of sharply questioning politicians and not hiding his opinions. Days before a security guard forced Ramos out of Trump's Iowa news conference on Tuesday — he was later let back in and continued a contentious exchange — he had denounced Trump on CNN. Ramos said the immigration issue "is personal" and when Trump voices his views that include mass deportations and revoking the citizenship of children born in the U.S. to undocumented parents, "he's talking about me" and all the other American Latinos born in another country.

Ramos is generally considered the most influential television journalist among Latinos living in the United States. He and Maria Elena Salinas co-anchor a weeknight newscast on Univision, the country's most-watched Spanish-language network. A syndicated columnist, he also hosts a Sunday morning political panel for Univision and a weekly newsmagazine on Fusion, an English-language network geared to Latinos.

A Mexican native who came to the United States as a young journalist when the Mexican government censored one of his reports, Ramos said that Trump's immigration plan was full of "empty promises. What he's trying to sell the American public simply doesn't work. It's impossible," he told CNN.

Univision said Ramos had earlier requested an interview with Trump, which the candidate rejected before distributing Ramos' cell phone number on social media. So the Miami-based Ramos traveled to Iowa for the news conference.

Trump on Wednesday said that Ramos was "totally out of line" in the news conference.

"I would have gotten to him very quickly," Trump said on NBC's "Today" show. "This man gets up and starts ranting and raving and screaming, and honestly being very disrespectful to all the other reporters."

For many Americans schooled in a tradition of objective journalism, the idea of a reporter coming into the situation with such a clear point of view is both unusual and off-putting.

"There's no question that he's important and that he has a lot of influence, but I think that people now have sort of recognized that he's more of an advocate than a journalist," said Sean Spicer, communications director for the Republican National Committee.

Outside of the news conference before he was let back in, Ramos was approached by a man wearing a Trump badge who told him he was "very rude," according to a video clip released by Univision.

"Get out of my country," the man said. "Get out."

Ramos quietly reminded him, "I'm a U.S. citizen, too."

There are different standards regarding journalistic objectivity in countries outside of the United States, particularly in Latin America, said Mark Feldstein, a veteran TV newsman and now a journalism professor at the University of Maryland. While there is more advocacy in American journalism now, too, "it's impossible to imagine any of the American television anchors doing the same thing to Donald Trump or any other serious candidate," he said.

Most Spanish-language journalists understand that Ramos was operating within an advocacy tradition that does not negate his role as a reporter, said Sallie Hughes, a University of Miami journalism professor with the school's Latin American Studies program.

Ramos also takes seriously his role as speaking for American Latinos. During the 2012 campaign, he penned open letters to the Republican and Democratic parties bluntly outlining where they stood with the Latino community. He's had testy exchanges with President Barack Obama, at one point seeming to anger the president by telling him that he's been called the "deporter-in-chief" by some in the Latin community.

"As a journalist you have to take a stand," Ramos told ABC's "Good Morning America" on Wednesday. "I think the best journalism happens when you take a stand and when it comes to racism, discrimination, corruption, public life, dictatorship or human rights, as journalists we are not only required but forced to take a stand and clearly, when Mr. Trump is talking about immigration in an extreme way, we have to confront him and I think that's what I did."

It was Univision that arguably put Trump's comments about Mexican immigrants, made during his speech announcing his candidacy in June, on the map as a political issue when the network declined to televise the Trump-owned Miss USA pageant. Trump sued the network, a case he pointed out during his exchange with Ramos on Tuesday evening.

Marisol Muniz, a 30-year-old farm worker from Panorama City, California, who came to the United States from Mexico, said some of her friends are now saying "Ramos for president. I think that's a good idea."

"I felt angry when I saw the video," Muniz said. "He was just asking a question. (Trump) wanted to put him down."

In a certain respect, both Trump and Ramos were speaking to completely different people instead of each other on Tuesday.

"They were each playing to their constituency," said the University of Maryland's Feldstein. "Trump is continuing his persona as a tough guy. He looked like a man in control and in charge to people disposed to look at him that way. I'm sure he looked like a bully to Ramos' audience."
___

Associated Press correspondents Sergio R. Bustos, Jill Colvin, Kelli Kennedy, Sigal Ratner De Arias and E. J. Tamara contributed to this report.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-08-27

[Usernames]

So, he's not actually a journalist. Just another another propagandist and special pleader for his particular race. If this is true: "Most Spanish-language journalists understand that Ramos was operating within an advocacy tradition that does not negate his role as a reporter, said Sallie Hughes, a University of Miami journalism professor with the school's Latin American Studies program," then it's yet one more corrupting influence on American standards caused by hispanic immigration.

[Credo]

The difficulty for Trump is that he will not be able to decide the agenda forever. He needs to talk to people about what they want to talk about.

[stevenl]

So he is reporting from a certain perspective. Nothing new here.

[Pimay1]

So, he's not actually a journalist. Just another another propagandist and special pleader for his particular race. If this is true: "Most Spanish-language journalists understand that Ramos was operating within an advocacy tradition that does not negate his role as a reporter, said Sallie Hughes, a University of Miami journalism professor with the school's Latin American Studies program," then it's yet one more corrupting influence on American standards caused by hispanic immigration.

The article conveniently failed to mention that Ramos's daughter works for Hillary Clinton.

[noitom]

Ramos and Univision's bread and butter is the huge Spanish speaking community in the United States. Ramos is an agenda advocate to maintain that US base of Spanish speakers who never learned English or don't speak English well enough to sample non-Univision media. Ramos depends on this for his popularity and he is sponsored to promote this agenda by Univision. Ramos' daughter works for Hillary Clinton as another poster pointed out.

[Linky]

So, he's not actually a journalist. Just another another propagandist and special pleader for his particular race. If this is true: "Most Spanish-language journalists understand that Ramos was operating within an advocacy tradition that does not negate his role as a reporter, said Sallie Hughes, a University of Miami journalism professor with the school's Latin American Studies program," then it's yet one more corrupting influence on American standards caused by hispanic immigration.

The article conveniently failed to mention that Ramos's daughter works for Hillary Clinton.

Does that disqualify him from asking questions?

Or does it mean that anyone asking questions must state who their family work for or who they vote for so the person being interviewed can decide if they want to answer a question?

Or, is it completely irrelevant.

How about they just answer the questions asked.

[Pimay1]

So, he's not actually a journalist. Just another another propagandist and special pleader for his particular race. If this is true: "Most Spanish-language journalists understand that Ramos was operating within an advocacy tradition that does not negate his role as a reporter, said Sallie Hughes, a University of Miami journalism professor with the school's Latin American Studies program," then it's yet one more corrupting influence on American standards caused by hispanic immigration.

The article conveniently failed to mention that Ramos's daughter works for Hillary Clinton.

Does that disqualify him from asking questions?

Or does it mean that anyone asking questions must state who their family work for or who they vote for so the person being interviewed can decide if they want to answer a question?

Or, is it completely irrelevant.

How about they just answer the questions asked.

Of course it doesn't disqualify him from asking questions. The issue was that he didn't follow the accepted protocol of being recognized by the speaker before asking a question. He just stood up and started shouting without being recognized. When asked to sit down he continued shouting. I agree with Usernames that he's not a journalist and he is certainly unprofessional. Here is part of the press conference where it occurred.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/08/25/jorge-ramos-escorted-out-of-press-conference-for-shouting-questions-at-trump-go-back-to-univision/

[JakeSully]

Video: Trump Supporter Tells U.S. Citizen Jorge Ramos To 'Get Out Of My Country'

VIDEO:

Does having US citizenship doesn't matter to Trump supporters?

It's scary that we are starting to tread on where all non white people will have their citizenship canceled if Trump supporters get their way.. and then what is the difference between ISIS and the US? Both are/ will be creating a massive refugee crisis.

[Usernames]

Video: Trump Supporter Tells U.S. Citizen Jorge Ramos To 'Get Out Of My Country'

VIDEO:

Does having US citizenship doesn't matter to Trump supporters?

It's scary that we are starting to tread on where all non white people will have their citizenship canceled if Trump supporters get their way.. and then what is the difference between ISIS and the US? Both are/ will be creating a massive refugee crisis.

Current US law already allows for people who have been naturalized to lose their citizenship. It is called "denaturalization" and has been applied to former Nazis who came to the US and acquired citizenship after World War II. If at any time someone falsifies or fails to tell the entire truth in their naturalization process, they can be denaturalized and sent back to their former country. And, btw, lies of omission are not allowed. Just because someone doesn't ask you something but you still fail to give complete and accurate information (such as working illegally, avoiding income tax, commission of crimes), you can be denaturalized. Wonder how many of Ramos' fans just peed in their pants on reading that?

[lifeincnx]

Why does Fox News come to mind? Oh right, far from being journalists they are 'advocates' as well.

Edited August 27, 2015 by lifeincnx

[PHP87]

He's not a journalist, he's an immigration activist.

[stevenl]

Video: Trump Supporter Tells U.S. Citizen Jorge Ramos To 'Get Out Of My Country'

VIDEO:

Does having US citizenship doesn't matter to Trump supporters?

It's scary that we are starting to tread on where all non white people will have their citizenship canceled if Trump supporters get their way.. and then what is the difference between ISIS and the US? Both are/ will be creating a massive refugee crisis.

Current US law already allows for people who have been naturalized to lose their citizenship. It is called "denaturalization" and has been applied to former Nazis who came to the US and acquired citizenship after World War II. If at any time someone falsifies or fails to tell the entire truth in their naturalization process, they can be denaturalized and sent back to their former country. And, btw, lies of omission are not allowed. Just because someone doesn't ask you something but you still fail to give complete and accurate information (such as working illegally, avoiding income tax, commission of crimes), you can be denaturalized. Wonder how many of Ramos' fans just peed in their pants on reading that?

Have a look at the post before yours, #9.

[Just1Voice]

I watched the interview. Ramos was loud, rude and belligerent. He wasn't trying to ask a question, he was deliberately trying to disrupt the news conference, and showing total disrespect to the real journalists there. Trump didn't respond to the man's "baiting" and spoke in his normal tone of voice. He didn't order Ramos removed, the security did that themselves, and Trump later let Ramos return.

My opinion? (for what it's worth). Ramos is/was a rude <deleted> trying to push a cause, and had no interest in being a journalist, or respecting the rights of others. Trump is nicer than me. I wouldn't have let the jerk back in. lol

[Publicus]

Univision is community based mass media, the community or pubic in this instance being native Hispanic and Spanish speaking people. Univision is protected by the First Amendment freedom of the press as the meaning of press has developed.

Trump is busy slandering virtually all Hispanics so it is indeed no surprise that Univision fights back in defense of both its audience/constituency and itself. To say advocacy journalism as if that were all there is at Univision is wrongheaded. Univision is community media that can include advocacy journalism but goes beyond journalism to the level of an overall package of network programming of a great variety.

Offspring of mass or specialised media have their own political views and are free to participate in the political processes as may suit them. Mr. Ramos and his daughter are protected by the same First Amendment rights and protections of 'press', speech, association, as are the rest of the mass media or all of us. Mr. Ramos would have confronted the nativist and racialist Trump in this way whether or not Mr. Ramos were married with children.

[Chicog]

All of the clowns are trying to avoid the question:

"Will you deport anchor babies of illegal alien parents?".

Cruz did his best to squirm out of it the other morning and then had the audacity to criticise Kelly for asking him!

[Scott]

Until/unless there is a change in the Constitution or how it is interpreted, I don't believe you can deport an anchor baby. The parents can be deported if they are not citizens, but the child cannot. The parents will have to chose whether to take the child or leave it in the care of the gov't (foster care) or with relatives (welfare). Either way it is a costly endeavor.

[Ulysses G.]

Trump intends to to repeal birthright citizenship. I don't know if he can actually do it, but somebody should have closed this loophole long ago. I wish him the best of luck.

[pmugghc]

Univision is community based mass media, the community or pubic in this instance being native Hispanic and Spanish speaking people. Univision is protected by the First Amendment freedom of the press as the meaning of press has developed.

Trump is busy slandering virtually all Hispanics so it is indeed no surprise that Univision fights back in defense of both its audience/constituency and itself. To say advocacy journalism as if that were all there is at Univision is wrongheaded. Univision is community media that can include advocacy journalism but goes beyond journalism to the level of an overall package of network programming of a great variety.

Offspring of mass or specialised media have their own political views and are free to participate in the political processes as may suit them. Mr. Ramos and his daughter are protected by the same First Amendment rights and protections of 'press', speech, association, as are the rest of the mass media or all of us. Mr. Ramos would have confronted the nativist and racialist Trump in this way whether or not Mr. Ramos were married with children.

So are you saying any of us could just go into a Trump press conference, standup without invitation and start shouting questions, interrupting the proceedings?? Edited August 27, 2015 by pmugghc

[spidermike007]

Univision is community based mass media, the community or pubic in this instance being native Hispanic and Spanish speaking people. Univision is protected by the First Amendment freedom of the press as the meaning of press has developed.

Trump is busy slandering virtually all Hispanics so it is indeed no surprise that Univision fights back in defense of both its audience/constituency and itself. To say advocacy journalism as if that were all there is at Univision is wrongheaded. Univision is community media that can include advocacy journalism but goes beyond journalism to the level of an overall package of network programming of a great variety.

Offspring of mass or specialised media have their own political views and are free to participate in the political processes as may suit them. Mr. Ramos and his daughter are protected by the same First Amendment rights and protections of 'press', speech, association, as are the rest of the mass media or all of us. Mr. Ramos would have confronted the nativist and racialist Trump in this way whether or not Mr. Ramos were married with children.

So are you saying any of us could just go into a Trump press conference, standup without invitation and start shouting questions, interrupting the proceedings??

Hopefully. Wish more of this would happen. This guy is not particularly good when off script. The stuff he tends to say sounds quite inane, hateful, angry, misogynistic, and tends to reflect what a hooligan and ignorant goon he really is.

[Thakkar]

Univision is community based mass media, the community or pubic in this instance being native Hispanic and Spanish speaking people. Univision is protected by the First Amendment freedom of the press as the meaning of press has developed.

Trump is busy slandering virtually all Hispanics so it is indeed no surprise that Univision fights back in defense of both its audience/constituency and itself. To say advocacy journalism as if that were all there is at Univision is wrongheaded. Univision is community media that can include advocacy journalism but goes beyond journalism to the level of an overall package of network programming of a great variety.

Offspring of mass or specialised media have their own political views and are free to participate in the political processes as may suit them. Mr. Ramos and his daughter are protected by the same First Amendment rights and protections of 'press', speech, association, as are the rest of the mass media or all of us. Mr. Ramos would have confronted the nativist and racialist Trump in this way whether or not Mr. Ramos were married with children.

Advocacy journalism is also journalism.

A newspaper is not just for reporting the news as it is, but to make people mad enough to do something about it.

― Mark Twain

[Publicus]

Univision is community based mass media, the community or pubic in this instance being native Hispanic and Spanish speaking people. Univision is protected by the First Amendment freedom of the press as the meaning of press has developed.

Trump is busy slandering virtually all Hispanics so it is indeed no surprise that Univision fights back in defense of both its audience/constituency and itself. To say advocacy journalism as if that were all there is at Univision is wrongheaded. Univision is community media that can include advocacy journalism but goes beyond journalism to the level of an overall package of network programming of a great variety.

Offspring of mass or specialised media have their own political views and are free to participate in the political processes as may suit them. Mr. Ramos and his daughter are protected by the same First Amendment rights and protections of 'press', speech, association, as are the rest of the mass media or all of us. Mr. Ramos would have confronted the nativist and racialist Trump in this way whether or not Mr. Ramos were married with children.

So are you saying any of us could just go into a Trump press conference, standup without invitation and start shouting questions, interrupting the proceedings??

No, you said it, not I....suggested I'd said or meant it, but I have not said or done either.

Neither have I said Jorge Ramos could freely do that, but I am considering saying that Mr. Ramos was right to do what he needed to do against the Trump slandering of Mexicans, Hispanics, immigrants in general as well as undocumented immigrants. As we now know, blaming and slandering immigrants was but The Donald's opening act.

[Thakkar]

When asked by a reporter why hed had Ramos kicked out, Trump said he didnt know much about him.

I dont believe Ive ever met him, except he started screaming. I didnt escort him out, Trump said. Youll have to talk to security, whoever security is.

Ramos had not screamed

( http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/la-na-trump-ramos-univision-20150825-story.html )

Trump is a bold faced liar.

- Ramos did not scream as the above quote from LA Times attests.

- He clearly knows Ramos though he claims not to because Ramos "...has been trying to get an interview with Trump for months." ( http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/25/media/donald-trump-jorge-ramos/index.html )

- watch the video and see how Trump uses his lips to call his security guy. https://www.youtube.com/embed/AghbhqhHMgs

Below is the screen grab.

And here's the kind of Nazi lowlife Trump appeals to:

David Duke, a former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and self-described racial realist, says Donald Trump is the best Republican candidate for president because he understands the real sentiment of America.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/david-duke-on-trump-hes-certainly-the-best-of-the-lot-runnin#.ttYKqK7ONP

T

[Ulysses G.]

Ramos is an activist, not a journalist and he did not ask a question. He went on a tirade and spouted a bunch of talking points without being called on. I'm not a big fan of Trump, but he handled this rude, dishonest little man exactly as he deserved. That is one reason Trumps popularity keeps on growing.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Thakkar]

I don't know what Trump's motives are for running in this race, but I'm pretty sure it's not to win the presidency. Trump can do the math and surely knows that while the majority of Hispanics vote Democrat, a substantial minority (27% in 2012) vote Republican, especially in crucial swing states like Florida. Nobody serious about winning the presidency would go this far out of their way to so recklessly alienate the Hispanic vote. Ramos and Univision are popular in the Hispanic community and he is an unabashed opinion-maker who is listened to.

There's a difference between supporting Trump and supporting Trump for president. Those supporting Trump for president are being played for fools.

T

[Ulysses G.]

And here's the kind of Nazi lowlife Trump appeals to:

David Duke, a former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and self-described racial realist, says Donald Trump is the best Republican candidate for president because he understands the real sentiment of America.

David Duke likes Taylor Swift too. You can't choose your fans, but you can reject them.

Donald Trump says that he does not want the endorsement of former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke and that he would "certainly" repudiate his support.

"I don't need his endorsement, I certainly wouldn't want his endorsement, I don't need anybody's endorsement," Trump said in an interview on Bloomberg News.

Asked if he would repudiate an endorsement from Duke, he replied: "Sure."

Edited August 27, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Thakkar]

And here's the kind of Nazi lowlife Trump appeals to:

David Duke, a former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and self-described racial realist, says Donald Trump is the best Republican candidate for president because he understands the real sentiment of America.

David Duke likes Taylor Swift too. You can't choose your fans, but you can reject them.

Donald Trump says that he does not want the endorsement of former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke and that he would "certainly" repudiate his support.

"I don't need his endorsement, I certainly wouldn't want his endorsement, I don't need anybody's endorsement," Trump said in an interview on Bloomberg News.

Asked if he would repudiate an endorsement from Duke, he replied: "Sure."

The point is: these are the kinds of people Trump's rhetoric appeals to.

And Taylor Swift is not running for president. And, I think, neither is Trump--not really.

T

[Ulysses G.]

Trump's rhetoric appeals to.LOTS of people. That is why he is surging in the polls.

Trump IS running for president. You can win without the Hispanic vote. Romney would have won in 2012, if the far right - people like David Duke - had not stayed home, because he was too moderate. They stuck us with Obama.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[NeverSure]

It seems a lot of posters presuppose that Hispanics won't like Trump. My unofficial poll says that the legal immigrants - the ones who are working and raising families within the system but are still first generation native Spanish speakers - don't like illegal immigration either. They tell me that the illegals give them a bad name and spoil public opinion about them.

I don't buy the idea that Trump has alienated all of the Hispanics and certainly not the ones who'll bother to vote.

Cheers.

PS The Mexican families I know are awesome people. They are peaceful or pacifist Catholics who are family oriented even to the expended family. They have wholesome and polite kids who greet me warmly and who play well together. They remind me of what families did when I was a kid - packing the car full of food and everyone descending on one home for the big Sunday meal. Kids are all playing well together outside... We could take some lessons.

[Publicus]

Trump's rhetoric appeals to.LOTS of people. That is why he is surging in the polls.

Trump IS running for president. You can win without the Hispanic vote. Romney would have won in 2012, if the far right - people like David Duke - had not stayed home, because he was too moderate. They stuck us with Obama.

You can win without the Hispanic vote.

Republicans and the Right that controls the party sound like they're trying to convince themselves.

Even if the R party does believe their 2016 mantra abut the Hispanic vote, youse guyz would be completely wrong, so keep up the good work from the Democratic party point of view.

Republicans taking the identical pov in respect of the Hispanic vote as Rs did in 2008 and in 2012 when the R party lost conclusively, guarantees continuation of this particular loser strategy. And the losses are well deserved because not only do the Rs and the Right assume the wrongheaded election strategy, they are against immigration and want to build a wall to create a Fortress America.