Unidentifiable Thai fruits (2)

[Kanga Japan]

Could anyone possibly assist in identifying the attached 2 Thai fruits?

The photos were taken at a market in north (Isaan) Thailand:

1. LUK THO ( ลูกท้อ)

Called a 'Thai peach'. Green skin, yellow fruit. Pointed shape.

2. LUK BEN (ลูกเบน)

Round, purple plum-like fruit

These two fruits are the only Thai fruits which I have been unable to find a scientific name for.

Your help would be gratefully appreciated.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Kanga Japan

[AyG]

For LUK THO you just need the Wikipedia article: https://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B8%97%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%AD

[AyG]

LUK BEN is probably https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flacourtia_indica

It might be a local (Ubon Ratchathani) name for ตะขบป่า.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear AyG,

Thank you for your help on LUK THO. I checked the Wikipedia article in your post.

LUK THO is definitely mentioned there and obviously it is a type of peach, however looking at the images for the synonyms doesn't show any similar fruit.

I think that there must be a completely different scientific name for this fruit, even though it is called a 'peach' in northern Thailand.

I will keep looking.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear AyG,

Thank you for your reply for LUK BEN. I think you are correct.

The fruit looks very similar to this. I guess, as you say, that it is a local name for TAKHOP PA. Thanks for the Thai script for this also.

[cooked]

Our horticultural committee here in Isaan calls the last one B - uk benn and agrees that it is indeed a Flacourtia as shown on the Wiki page. When she took buffalo out every day she used to eat them all the time, she says the trees have all been chopped down now.

ID for the first one: 'Dunno, never heard of Luk tho'. '.

[AyG]

เซียนท้อ (not just THO).

CHIAN is apparently a Chinese immortal. Slightly confused by the word order - though this may reflect Chinese grammar (but the the associative particle 的 appears to have become lost).

Edited August 29, 2015 by AyG

[Kanga Japan]

Dear cooked,

Thank you for that information. I guess you mean LUK BEN.

I appreciate your comments.

[kokesaat]

I found this picture on Google images for ท้อ. Looks to be a variety of egg fruit or canistel

[AyG]

Good find.

Interestingly the picture gives an alternative name for เซียนท้อ - ละมุดอินเดีย Indian lamut (sapodilla).

[Kanga Japan]

Dear AyG,

Thank you for that. Could have some connection.

[Kanga Japan]

kokesaat,

That's it, I'm sure. Thank you so much for that. We have finally (although it doesn't take much time when the forum members are helping) identified this fruit!

AyG,

Thank you so much for adding the printable Thai script and English name. I think the scientific name is Pouteria campechiana.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Kanga Japan

[AyG]

This site gives the expected word order for this fruit, ท้อเซียน. Probably need to include both. Incidentally, ท้อเซียน appears to be much more common than either THO variant.

http://www.biogang.net/biodiversity_view.php?menu=biodiversity&uid=13918&id=121689

I think you're right about the scientific name.

From Wikipedia, I gather the English name is "canistel" or "yellow sapote" (not that I'd ever heard of it). It's not native to Thailand, it's from central/southern America. However, the same Wikipedia article reads:

"In Thailand it is known by different traditional popular names such as Lamut Khamen (ละมุดเขมร="Khmer Sapodilla") or Tho Khamen (ท้อเขมร="Khmer Peach"), attributing a hypothetical Cambodian origin to this fruit (the name of the fruit is See Da in Cambodia). Currently those names are officially discouraged and the name Mon Khai (ม่อนไข่), Tiesa (ทิสซา), Khai meaning "egg", is favored."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pouteria_campechiana

I think there's a bit more to this story to be uncovered.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear AyG,

Thank you for that additional information.

Actually, I already had LAMUT KHAMEN (ละมุดเขมร) in my dictionary, with the scientific name Pouteria campechiana and English names:

egg fruit

canistel fruit

Khmer peach

Khmer sapodilla

I had a photo, however it was quite different from the one I posted, so I did not associate them with each other. I read that this fruit comes in various shapes and colours. I think I will keep LAMUT KHAMEN in and also add THO KHAMEN (ท้อเขมร), for identification purposes, even though those names seem to be discouraged. I will also add:

MON KHAI (ม่อนไข่) and

TIESA (ทิสซา)

(sorry, but I can't remove the italics from the above)

It seems that this fruit has a history.

Thank you again.

[AyG]

TIESA (ทิสซา)

The RTGS is wrong (as it was on the Wikipedia page). Unfortunately, I don't know what it should be. Possibilities include: THISASA, THITSA, THITSASA. Not in any of my dictionaries.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear AyG,

Thank you for that. I was going to double-check the RTGS reading before entering it in the dictionary.

I think I might go with THITSA. It is shown as that in thai-language.com and, from what I can tell, seems to come close to the pronunciation.

[Richard W]

I think I might go with THITSA. It is shown as that in thai-language.com and, from what I can tell, seems to come close to the pronunciation.

That's just the site's guess as at the pronunciation of ทิสซา, isn't it? However, it comes from a Filipino word chesa/tiesa/tiessa, so 'thitsa' would appear to be right for the transcription. I'm not sure whether the Filipino word is particularly associated with any language. It might be from Spanish tieso 'stiff, rigid'.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear Richard W,

Thank you very much for that information.

I didn't realise that it is a Filipino word.

[AyG]

Just stumbled across http://frynn.com/%E0%B8%A1%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%84%E0%B8%82%E0%B9%88/ which rather helpfully gives the locations where different names are used.

ลูกท้อพื้นบ้าน (LUK THO PHIN BAN) Ratchaburi

ท้อเขมร (THO KHAMEN) Prachinburi

ทิสซา (THITSA?) Phetburi

เซียนท้อ (CHIAN THO), เขมา (KHEMA), ละมุดเขมร (LAMUT KHAMEN), ละมุดสวรรค์ (LAMUT SUAN), หมากป่วน (MAK PUAN), โตมา (TO MA) -all Bangkok.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear AyG,

Thank you very much for that. It will be very useful.

You have been doing a lot of research. I appreciate you adding the extra details.