A screaming bargain...or not...advice needed regarding buying an unfinished house

[Robert24]

Today I am drafting a loan agreement in English.

I will then have a two thais translate it to Thai for me and I will compare the translations. The chinese Thai girl I spoke about above is one of the people I will get to translate.

I will get my girl to sign the loan agreement and have it witnessed by the chinese Thai girl.

The agreement will basically state that I have loaned my girl 410K in exchange for her granting a life usufruct. The debt is discharged once my name is stamped on the back of the deed. It will also have a few clauses in it about agreeing to sell the property in the future if I wish, however those clauses are more like MOU as they are not enforcible at the end of the day.

I have told my girl that the plan is the buy the property finish the house and then advertise it to find a buyer. She will get 50% of any profit after my original capital and any additional expenses are taken out.

The house needs, some plumbing, electrical, water tanks, tiling and painting to complete it. My rough estimates are about 100K to complete to a reasonable standard. And so I would double that to allow for the unknown and arrive at 200K.

And so the totall project would have a capital outlay of around 600K for a two bedroom rendered brick house on a small square block fronting a public road that is five minutes from the beach. I should be able to find a buyer circa 1 million for a 400K profit, or rent to a foreigner to achieve a 10 percent return on my money.

my thoughts are that half a rai land near the beach with a new decently built 2 br house is definitely worth more than 1m.

[ubonjoe]

Two flame posts have been removed. A repeat of them will result in a formal warning.

[rocketboybkk]

Today I am drafting a loan agreement in English.

I will then have a two thais translate it to Thai for me and I will compare the translations. The chinese Thai girl I spoke about above is one of the people I will get to translate.

I will get my girl to sign the loan agreement and have it witnessed by the chinese Thai girl.

The agreement will basically state that I have loaned my girl 410K in exchange for her granting a life usufruct. The debt is discharged once my name is stamped on the back of the deed. It will also have a few clauses in it about agreeing to sell the property in the future if I wish, however those clauses are more like MOU as they are not enforcible at the end of the day.

I have told my girl that the plan is the buy the property finish the house and then advertise it to find a buyer. She will get 50% of any profit after my original capital and any additional expenses are taken out.

The house needs, some plumbing, electrical, water tanks, tiling and painting to complete it. My rough estimates are about 100K to complete to a reasonable standard. And so I would double that to allow for the unknown and arrive at 200K.

And so the totall project would have a capital outlay of around 600K for a two bedroom rendered brick house on a small square block fronting a public road that is five minutes from the beach. I should be able to find a buyer circa 1 million for a 400K profit, or rent to a foreigner to achieve a 10 percent return on my money.

my thoughts are that half a rai land near the beach with a new decently built 2 br house is definitely worth more than 1m.

The land alone would be 1.5 million

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[Bulldozer Dawn]

Today I am drafting a loan agreement in English.

I will then have a two thais translate it to Thai for me and I will compare the translations. The chinese Thai girl I spoke about above is one of the people I will get to translate.

I will get my girl to sign the loan agreement and have it witnessed by the chinese Thai girl.

The agreement will basically state that I have loaned my girl 410K in exchange for her granting a life usufruct. The debt is discharged once my name is stamped on the back of the deed. It will also have a few clauses in it about agreeing to sell the property in the future if I wish, however those clauses are more like MOU as they are not enforcible at the end of the day.

I have told my girl that the plan is the buy the property finish the house and then advertise it to find a buyer. She will get 50% of any profit after my original capital and any additional expenses are taken out.

The house needs, some plumbing, electrical, water tanks, tiling and painting to complete it. My rough estimates are about 100K to complete to a reasonable standard. And so I would double that to allow for the unknown and arrive at 200K.

And so the totall project would have a capital outlay of around 600K for a two bedroom rendered brick house on a small square block fronting a public road that is five minutes from the beach. I should be able to find a buyer circa 1 million for a 400K profit, or rent to a foreigner to achieve a 10 percent return on my money.

my thoughts are that half a rai land near the beach with a new decently built 2 br house is definitely worth more than 1m.

The land alone would be 1.5 million

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No that is not correct.

[rocketboybkk]

Near a beach, 1/2 rai

100%

Know your market & prices

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[Robert24]

@Bulldozer dawn: where is the location of this house, i.e. province/district?

[blackcab]

Today I am drafting a loan agreement in English.

I will then have a two thais translate it to Thai for me and I will compare the translations. The chinese Thai girl I spoke about above is one of the people I will get to translate.

I will get my girl to sign the loan agreement and have it witnessed by the chinese Thai girl.

The agreement will basically state that I have loaned my girl 410K in exchange for her granting a life usufruct. The debt is discharged once my name is stamped on the back of the deed. It will also have a few clauses in it about agreeing to sell the property in the future if I wish, however those clauses are more like MOU as they are not enforcible at the end of the day.

I have told my girl that the plan is the buy the property finish the house and then advertise it to find a buyer. She will get 50% of any profit after my original capital and any additional expenses are taken out.

The house needs, some plumbing, electrical, water tanks, tiling and painting to complete it. My rough estimates are about 100K to complete to a reasonable standard. And so I would double that to allow for the unknown and arrive at 200K.

And so the totall project would have a capital outlay of around 600K for a two bedroom rendered brick house on a small square block fronting a public road that is five minutes from the beach. I should be able to find a buyer circa 1 million for a 400K profit, or rent to a foreigner to achieve a 10 percent return on my money.

A couple of points to consider. The first is that the land office may consider your loan of 410k in return for a usufruct to be a way of you circumventing the law in a bid to gain property in Thailand.

Note that I said may. They may not. Best to check their thinking first.

The second thing is that you will pay tax on the usufruct amount of 1.1% or 4,510 baht. No big deal

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Today I am drafting a loan agreement in English.

I will then have a two thais translate it to Thai for me and I will compare the translations. The chinese Thai girl I spoke about above is one of the people I will get to translate.

I will get my girl to sign the loan agreement and have it witnessed by the chinese Thai girl.

The agreement will basically state that I have loaned my girl 410K in exchange for her granting a life usufruct. The debt is discharged once my name is stamped on the back of the deed. It will also have a few clauses in it about agreeing to sell the property in the future if I wish, however those clauses are more like MOU as they are not enforcible at the end of the day.

I have told my girl that the plan is the buy the property finish the house and then advertise it to find a buyer. She will get 50% of any profit after my original capital and any additional expenses are taken out.

The house needs, some plumbing, electrical, water tanks, tiling and painting to complete it. My rough estimates are about 100K to complete to a reasonable standard. And so I would double that to allow for the unknown and arrive at 200K.

And so the totall project would have a capital outlay of around 600K for a two bedroom rendered brick house on a small square block fronting a public road that is five minutes from the beach. I should be able to find a buyer circa 1 million for a 400K profit, or rent to a foreigner to achieve a 10 percent return on my money.

A couple of points to consider. The first is that the land office may consider your loan of 410k in return for a usufruct to be a way of you circumventing the law in a bid to gain property in Thailand.

Note that I said may. They may not. Best to check their thinking first.

The second thing is that you will pay tax on the usufruct amount of 1.1% or 4,510 baht. No big deal

The land office will know nothing of the loan to my girl. She has her own money.

I have however heard the bar stool urban myth that the land office will require that I sign a document stating that I gifted her the money. We are not married so I see no way that they can reasonably make that demand. We shall see.

She will state that the usufruct is being granted for free. Thus no tax.

Unfortunately it is impossible to calculate the outcomes at the land office with so many variables and so much corruption here in Thailand.

I have spoken with two separate officials at the land office and both have confirmed a setee gep gin chiwit can be issued against the subject property.

However, I am well aware that Thai officials make up the rules from day to day, and if they can steal money from a Farang by shifting the goal posts, most will do that.

However at the end of I have not signed any contract with the seller and if there are any insurmountable problems I will walk.

They in turn will probably want me killed (especially the loan shark who has agreed to met at the Land office) but so be it.

I know full well that the contract and MOU I want my GF to sign, at the end of the day, will have little benefit if she decides to betray me.

Nonetheless, I see no harm in having the documents in place before we go to the land office.

I am no a starry eyed Farang buffalo fresh off the boat. I speak reasonable Thai and have lived here full time for 6 years. I am interested in this property because it is in a stellar location, and, to be frank, I am looking for a little hands on project. Finishing off the house would be fun and not too challenging. Another advantage is that my GF can see that I am serious about her (which I am) and serious about moving forward with our future. And, at the end of the day, lets no forget that we are only talking about 410KTHB. That's about 6 months rent back in my home town or the price of a old second hand car.

[rocketboybkk]

It's cheap in relative terms

Do you have a work permit to work on the house?

Saw on a programme last Friday, 2 Ozzies helped a friend paint a few walls, got snitched on & were arrested & detained then fined. They have a business in Thailand but the work they are allowed to do isn't paint walls.

Be careful, plenty people out there to get you.

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[blackcab]

If the OP has a usufruct the property becomes his to live in and his responsibility to maintain.

Was the owner/lessee in the TV programme arrested too?

[rocketboybkk]

No, only the 2 poor oz men who were doing him a favour.

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[sometimewoodworker]

I have however heard the bar stool urban myth that the land office will require that I sign a document stating that I gifted her the money. We are not married so I see no way that they can reasonably make that demand. We shall see.

She will state that the usufruct is being granted for free. Thus no tax.

.

1: It is no bar stool urban myth. I and many (most) have been required to sign a form that stated that the money was my wife's (or if not married GF's). Was not ours and we had no claim on it.

So your agreement to loan money to your GF to purchase land on condition of providing an usufruct would be unenforceable (probably even illegal) should there ever be a problem and you had to try to enforce it. Having said that it will give a "Linus blanket " to you, and as long as nothing goes south between you probably does no harm.

But if the land office gets even a hint of it they will not permit the sale.

2: She does not have to "state" that the usufruct is being granted at no cost, it is in the usufruct itself.

I know as I have just registered one myself.

Some land offices require at least 30 days between the sale and registering a usufruct, some will not register one, others make it difficult but may eventually register one.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

I have however heard the bar stool urban myth that the land office will require that I sign a document stating that I gifted her the money. We are not married so I see no way that they can reasonably make that demand. We shall see.

She will state that the usufruct is being granted for free. Thus no tax.

.

1: It is no bar stool urban myth. I and many (most) have been required to sign a form that stated that the money was my wife's (or if not married GF's). Was not ours and we had no claim on it.

So your agreement to loan money to your GF to purchase land on condition of providing an usufruct would be unenforceable (probably even illegal) should there ever be a problem and you had to try to enforce it. Having said that it will give a "Linus blanket " to you, and as long as nothing goes south between you probably does no harm.

But if the land office gets even a hint of it they will not permit the sale.

2: She does not have to "state" that the usufruct is being granted at no cost, it is in the usufruct itself.

I know as I have just registered one myself.

Some land offices require at least 30 days between the sale and registering a usufruct, some will not register one, others make it difficult but may eventually register one.

Thanks for your post.

It would seem very complicated.

I won't be signing anything other than Usufruct documents. In fact I have no intention of even being in the Land office when the transfer takes place, I am not a party in the transfer, why do I need to attend.

In any event, from a legal standpoint, I am signing a loan agreement with my girl stating that she has been paid 410K in exchange for her promise to grant the Usufruct and so technically it is her money after that contract is executed.

There is a great deal of risk generated by the Land Office. But that is offset by the small amount of capital outlay.

In what province did you register your usufruct and can you upload a photo or copy?

Edited September 16, 2015 by Bulldozer Dawn

[Robert24]

I have however heard the bar stool urban myth that the land office will require that I sign a document stating that I gifted her the money. We are not married so I see no way that they can reasonably make that demand. We shall see.

She will state that the usufruct is being granted for free. Thus no tax.

.

1: It is no bar stool urban myth. I and many (most) have been required to sign a form that stated that the money was my wife's (or if not married GF's). Was not ours and we had no claim on it.

So your agreement to loan money to your GF to purchase land on condition of providing an usufruct would be unenforceable (probably even illegal) should there ever be a problem and you had to try to enforce it. Having said that it will give a "Linus blanket " to you, and as long as nothing goes south between you probably does no harm.

But if the land office gets even a hint of it they will not permit the sale.

2: She does not have to "state" that the usufruct is being granted at no cost, it is in the usufruct itself.

I know as I have just registered one myself.

Some land offices require at least 30 days between the sale and registering a usufruct, some will not register one, others make it difficult but may eventually register one.

why would any boyfriend need to sign something when his girlfriend buys property as per what you point out under 1)?

[sometimewoodworker]

I have however heard the bar stool urban myth that the land office will require that I sign a document stating that I gifted her the money. We are not married so I see no way that they can reasonably make that demand. We shall see.

She will state that the usufruct is being granted for free. Thus no tax.

.

1: It is no bar stool urban myth. I and many (most) have been required to sign a form that stated that the money was my wife's (or if not married GF's). Was not ours and we had no claim on it.

So your agreement to loan money to your GF to purchase land on condition of providing an usufruct would be unenforceable (probably even illegal) should there ever be a problem and you had to try to enforce it. Having said that it will give a "Linus blanket " to you, and as long as nothing goes south between you probably does no harm.

But if the land office gets even a hint of it they will not permit the sale.

2: She does not have to "state" that the usufruct is being granted at no cost, it is in the usufruct itself.

I know as I have just registered one myself.

Some land offices require at least 30 days between the sale and registering a usufruct, some will not register one, others make it difficult but may eventually register one.

why would any boyfriend need to sign something when his girlfriend buys property as per what you point out under 1)?

Why? Because land officials can, and do, make up their own rules.

Why? Because TIT and they can.

I mentioned it because some people have been asked to sign.

However if someone is like BD, as BD has said he is going to be nowhere near the land office when the transfer is done and nobody chats about where the money has come from, then they won't need to sign and there should be no problem.

[sometimewoodworker]

In what province did you register your usufruct?

It was in the Non Sa-At sub district of the Kumpawphi branch of the Udon Thani land office.

PS I would give a little more by PM but the system is broken for me

[passedout]

I have however heard the bar stool urban myth that the land office will require that I sign a document stating that I gifted her the money. We are not married so I see no way that they can reasonably make that demand. We shall see.

She will state that the usufruct is being granted for free. Thus no tax.

.

1: It is no bar stool urban myth. I and many (most) have been required to sign a form that stated that the money was my wife's (or if not married GF's). Was not ours and we had no claim on it.

So your agreement to loan money to your GF to purchase land on condition of providing an usufruct would be unenforceable (probably even illegal) should there ever be a problem and you had to try to enforce it. Having said that it will give a "Linus blanket " to you, and as long as nothing goes south between you probably does no harm.

But if the land office gets even a hint of it they will not permit the sale.

2: She does not have to "state" that the usufruct is being granted at no cost, it is in the usufruct itself.

I know as I have just registered one myself.

Some land offices require at least 30 days between the sale and registering a usufruct, some will not register one, others make it difficult but may eventually register one.

Hi sometimewoodworker can I ask if the purchase of the land/property and the registration of usufruct in the Udon land office were done in the same day when they asked you to sign that document? Or was there a 30 days gap like you hinted between the two and you were asked to sign the paper anyway.

I’m asking because I’m looking at doing a similar thing in Udon and possibly having to go to the same land office you’ve been. I was thinking of letting some time go past between the purchase and the usufruct registration 6 months or longer to avoid questions and/or problems from the land officer.

That’s assuming I have to be present during the registration of the usufruct.

Cheers

[Bulldozer Dawn]

I have however heard the bar stool urban myth that the land office will require that I sign a document stating that I gifted her the money. We are not married so I see no way that they can reasonably make that demand. We shall see.

She will state that the usufruct is being granted for free. Thus no tax.

.

1: It is no bar stool urban myth. I and many (most) have been required to sign a form that stated that the money was my wife's (or if not married GF's). Was not ours and we had no claim on it.

So your agreement to loan money to your GF to purchase land on condition of providing an usufruct would be unenforceable (probably even illegal) should there ever be a problem and you had to try to enforce it. Having said that it will give a "Linus blanket " to you, and as long as nothing goes south between you probably does no harm.

But if the land office gets even a hint of it they will not permit the sale.

2: She does not have to "state" that the usufruct is being granted at no cost, it is in the usufruct itself.

I know as I have just registered one myself.

Some land offices require at least 30 days between the sale and registering a usufruct, some will not register one, others make it difficult but may eventually register one.

Hi sometimewoodworker can I ask if the purchase of the land/property and the registration of usufruct in the Udon land office were done in the same day when they asked you to sign that document? Or was there a 30 days gap like you hinted between the two and you were asked to sign the paper anyway.

I’m asking because I’m looking at doing a similar thing in Udon and possibly having to go to the same land office you’ve been. I was thinking of letting some time go past between the purchase and the usufruct registration 6 months or longer to avoid questions and/or problems from the land officer.

That’s assuming I have to be present during the registration of the usufruct.

Cheers

My understanding is that a usufruct can be registered the same day on a Chanote or Nor Sor Sam Gor title.

However a Nor Sor Sam title requires advertising the intent for 30 days prior to granting the usufruct.

Happy for anyone to correct me.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

quick update.

Was supposed to meet at the land office this week however, not had time to get the usufruct contract, mou, and loan agreement drafted and translated. Had a number of blackouts in the last few days because of the storm.

Called the owner to advise her of same but she couldn't talk as she was working at a Karaoke bar.

Aiming to get the docs done tomorrow and signed by my girlfriend over the weekend with a meeting at the land office next week.

No doubt another week will add a substantial chunk to the loan shark payments. Her problem not mine.

Wish me luck.

[sometimewoodworker]

Hi sometimewoodworker can I ask if the purchase of the land/property and the registration of usufruct in the Udon land office were done in the same day when they asked you to sign that document? Or was there a 30 days gap like you hinted between the two and you were asked to sign the paper anyway.

Im asking because Im looking at doing a similar thing in Udon and possibly having to go to the same land office youve been. I was thinking of letting some time go past between the purchase and the usufruct registration 6 months or longer to avoid questions and/or problems from the land officer.

Thats assuming I have to be present during the registration of the usufruct.

Cheers

If you are the Usufructuary, then yes you must be present at the land office or sign a lot of stuff.

If you have to use the Non Sa-At sub branch you may not be able to get an Usufruct, the manager doesn't like them and he has the power. I have no idea if your chances are better if you wait. We (SWMBO) bought the land about 9 years ago and I signed the "it's her money" paper then, it didn't avoid the questions or problems when we got the Usufruct in August this year. You may have better luck if you are present at every meeting, there will probably be more than one visit to the land office.

For the Non Sa-At office I would not think that "tea" would help, in fact I got a strong impression that if it had been offered or even talked about it would have made a rejection a certainty.

If you are in a different area your chances are better.

If you are in the Udon Thani land office area it is easy, but you will need an Usufruct in English and Thai, they don't like the pure Thai language version unless both parties are Thai, that is probably a good thing to have anyway.

Edited September 17, 2015 by sometimewoodworker

[Bulldozer Dawn]

passed out.

What type of title deed do you have on your land.

My understanding is that if it is full chanote (or Nor Sor Sam Gor) then the usufruct can be registered straight away.

However, if it is Nor Sor Sam, you have to wait thirty days because the LO must advertise it (your application for usufruct) for that period to see if anyone objects.

[passedout]

Hi sometimewoodworker can I ask if the purchase of the land/property and the registration of usufruct in the Udon land office were done in the same day when they asked you to sign that document? Or was there a 30 days gap like you hinted between the two and you were asked to sign the paper anyway.

Im asking because Im looking at doing a similar thing in Udon and possibly having to go to the same land office youve been. I was thinking of letting some time go past between the purchase and the usufruct registration 6 months or longer to avoid questions and/or problems from the land officer.

Thats assuming I have to be present during the registration of the usufruct.

Cheers

If you are the Usufructuary, then yes you must be present at the land office or sign a lot of stuff.

If you have to use the Non Sa-At sub branch you may not be able to get an Usufruct, the manager doesn't like them and he has the power. I have no idea if your chances are better if you wait. We (SWMBO) bought the land about 9 years ago and I signed the "it's her money" paper then, it didn't avoid the questions or problems when we got the Usufruct in August this year. You may have better luck if you are present at every meeting, there will probably be more than one visit to the land office.

For the Non Sa-At office I would not think that "tea" would help, in fact I got a strong impression that if it had been offered or even talked about it would have made a rejection a certainty.

If you are in a different area your chances are better.

If you are in the Udon Thani land office area it is easy, but you will need an Usufruct in English and Thai, they don't like the pure Thai language version unless both parties are Thai, that is probably a good thing to have anyway.

Thanks for sharing. Cheers

[passedout]

passed out.

What type of title deed do you have on your land.

My understanding is that if it is full chanote (or Nor Sor Sam Gor) then the usufruct can be registered straight away.

However, if it is Nor Sor Sam, you have to wait thirty days because the LO must advertise it (your application for usufruct) for that period to see if anyone objects.

Bulldozer Dawn,

I don’t hold any title deed as yet. I’ve located the house I’m interested in but I’m still on the information gathering stage. Prior to committing myself with any fund I’d like to be sure (or as sure as you can be around here) that I could have a legal and easy enough to obtain usufruct signed on my name hence my other thread started a couple of days ago called “Usufruct questions”. But I’m not getting much feedback in there.

Thanks for your comments well worth keeping in mind when I buy. Cheers

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Latest update.

The plots thickens and things would now seem even more complicated.

I have reviewed the sellers brand new tabien ban and made a discovery.

It is her mother's name on the title deed and not hers.

And so now I am a bit unsure of how to proceed.

Do I need to make a contract with the mother for the purchase of the land and then a second contract with the daughter as she is the owner of the house?

I have seen the plans for the house, they have been stamped by the Tessaban. But does the fact that she has a new tabien ban already also mean that the Tessaban has done their final inspection and ticked off on the construction of the house?

If anyone can help or shed some light on the above issues it would be greatly appreciated.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Bulldozer Dawn

[blackcab]

The tabien baan isn't proof of ownership of the house or the land. It is a document listing who resides at the address, with one person named as the principal householder.

As an example my wife's parents live in the family house. My wife's mother is listed as the principal householder, but my wife's brother owns the land.

Thai people can only be listed in one tabien baan at any one time. Perhaps her mum didn't want to change her existing registration and ID card.

The tabien baan is issued when construction gets to a certain stage. That stage can vary, but it's generally around the time the doors and windows go in. To get the tabien baan a set of drawings is normally supplied to the district office along with the application.

In the land sales I have been party to the land was sold and the property came with it as partof the deal.

[beachproperty]

Latest update.

The plots thickens and things would now seem even more complicated.

I have reviewed the sellers brand new tabien ban and made a discovery.

It is her mother's name on the title deed and not hers.

And so now I am a bit unsure of how to proceed.

Do I need to make a contract with the mother for the purchase of the land and then a second contract with the daughter as she is the owner of the house?

I have seen the plans for the house, they have been stamped by the Tessaban. But does the fact that she has a new tabien ban already also mean that the Tessaban has done their final inspection and ticked off on the construction of the house?

If anyone can help or shed some light on the above issues it would be greatly appreciated.

In Thailand there can be differnent owners ....one of the land and another of the building on the land.

It is my understanding though that the owner of the building on land (other than the owner of the land) must file such ownership claim of the building at the land office. If none has been filed the owner of the land is the owner of BOTH land and building.

If the mother's name is on the deed ...she obviously is the one you must have a contract with and buy from.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Thanks Blackcab and BeachProperty for you informative posts.

Because the property is not a lot of money I was hoping to keep things simple and just meet at the land office and if the deed is transferred, hand over the money. I wanted to keep a Thai lawyer out of it because I don't trust any of them. Whats more, I have searched locally around here and I cant find one anyway which means I would probably have to use one from another province which I am loath to do.

As Beach property has confirmed you can have one person own the land and another own the house. That is why I had a red flag go up in my mind when I saw that that the mother's name was on the deed and the daughter's on the house book. Also, as I stated earlier, the deed is currently held by a loan shark who lent money (150K) to the daughter to build the house.

I have spent a good deal of time in the last few weeks reviewing property prices around here and speaking with local old landed thais hereabouts about price per talang wah for NSSG land and the property at 410KTHB is cheap. However, I do not want to buy someone elses problems.

The daughter is in trouble because she does not make enough money to service the debt on the loan from the loan shark. If the property is not sold, eventually he will get it (and for just 150K, the amount of the original loan). That is why the daughter is in a rush to sell. As with many Thais her money problems are being exacerbated by her lifestyle. She has a worthless Thai boyfriend and the front of their house is littered with empty alcohol bottles and cigarette butts.

So....what do I do to move forward....?

I have reviewed the plans that the daughter submitted to the Tessaban. They are stamped and dated by the Tessaban. The house has been built to plan, HOWEVER, it has not been built in the same location as indicated in the plan. In the plan the house is well away from the property boundaries, however the house has actually been built with one of its roof lines running along the boundary shared with the neigbouse house. The wall under that roofline is about 1.5 metres back from the boundary. This is why I asked the question about when does the Tessaban tick off on the final inspection of the house. Because she has already been issued with a housebook, does that mean that the Tessaban can not come back in the future and ask me to knock down the house because it has been built in a spot not indicated on the submitted drawings?

Although there is a power pole and a place for a meter directly in front of the house the daughter has not yet connected the power and has a long extension lead running over the road to her mothers house. She is broke and cannot afford the 15K deposit. I understand that you have to have a house book when going to the PEA to apply for connection of Electricity, and so want to make sure that my girl, the new incoming owner, will not have any problems getting a house book in her name.

So I still have some questions and if anyone can shed some light that would be greatly appreciated:

1. Who owns the house in this case? The mother's name is on the title deed, but the daughter has borrowed money to build the house and the plans submitted to the Tessban and the housebook are in the daughter's name.
2. Does the fact that the daughter already has a new housebook mean that the Tessaban has already ticked off on (did a final inspection of the house) and the boundary issue I have listed above can not come back to bite me in the future. I should note here that most of the houses in the area are actually built right on the boundaries of their properties.
3. How does my girlfriend (the new incoming buyer) get her name on the housebook.? I really want to know the process so I have some certainty we can get a new housebook, because, without it, we won't be able to get the electricity meter connected by the PEA.
4. Currently there is nothing (no leases or interests etc) stamped on the back of the title deed. If the daughter had registered her ownership of the house at the Land Office (as Beach Property advised above) would that interest then be stamped on the back of the title deed?

Thank in advance for anyone who can help.

[blackcab]

Thanks Blackcab and BeachProperty for you informative posts.

Because the property is not a lot of money I was hoping to keep things simple and just meet at the land office and if the deed is transferred, hand over the money. I wanted to keep a Thai lawyer out of it because I don't trust any of them. Whats more, I have searched locally around here and I cant find one anyway which means I would probably have to use one from another province which I am loath to do.

As Beach property has confirmed you can have one person own the land and another own the house. That is why I had a red flag go up in my mind when I saw that that the mother's name was on the deed and the daughter's on the house book. Also, as I stated earlier, the deed is currently held by a loan shark who lent money (150K) to the daughter to build the house.

I have spent a good deal of time in the last few weeks reviewing property prices around here and speaking with local old landed thais hereabouts about price per talang wah for NSSG land and the property at 410KTHB is cheap. However, I do not want to buy someone elses problems.

The daughter is in trouble because she does not make enough money to service the debt on the loan from the loan shark. If the property is not sold, eventually he will get it (and for just 150K, the amount of the original loan). That is why the daughter is in a rush to sell. As with many Thais her money problems are being exacerbated by her lifestyle. She has a worthless Thai boyfriend and the front of their house is littered with empty alcohol bottles and cigarette butts.

So....what do I do to move forward....?

I have reviewed the plans that the daughter submitted to the Tessaban. They are stamped and dated by the Tessaban. The house has been built to plan, HOWEVER, it has not been built in the same location as indicated in the plan. In the plan the house is well away from the property boundaries, however the house has actually been built with one of its roof lines running along the boundary shared with the neigbouse house. The wall under that roofline is about 1.5 metres back from the boundary. This is why I asked the question about when does the Tessaban tick off on the final inspection of the house. Because she has already been issued with a housebook, does that mean that the Tessaban can not come back in the future and ask me to knock down the house because it has been built in a spot not indicated on the submitted drawings?

Although there is a power pole and a place for a meter directly in front of the house the daughter has not yet connected the power and has a long extension lead running over the road to her mothers house. She is broke and cannot afford the 15K deposit. I understand that you have to have a house book when going to the PEA to apply for connection of Electricity, and so want to make sure that my girl, the new incoming owner, will not have any problems getting a house book in her name.

So I still have some questions and if anyone can shed some light that would be greatly appreciated:

• Who owns the house in this case? The mother's name is on the title deed, but the daughter has borrowed money to build the house and the plans submitted to the Tessban and the housebook are in the daughter's name.
• Does the fact that the daughter already has a new housebook mean that the Tessaban has already ticked off on (did a final inspection of the house) and the boundary issue I have listed above can not come back to bite me in the future. I should note here that most of the houses in the area are actually built right on the boundaries of their properties.
• How does my girlfriend (the new incoming buyer) get her name on the housebook.? I really want to know the process so I have some certainty we can get a new housebook, because, without it, we won't be able to get the electricity meter connected by the PEA.
• Currently there is nothing (no leases or interests etc) stamped on the back of the title deed. If the daughter had registered her ownership of the house at the Land Office (as Beach Property advised above) would that interest then be stamped on the back of the title deed?

Thank in advance for anyone who can help.

1. The mother owns the house. As beachproperty said, there is nothing registered on the deed to make it otherwise.

2. I doubt the tessaban will do any further inspection. It's not unusual for the plans to not really match the building in reality. As long as a house book has been issued that is the main thing.

3. Your girlfriend goes to the district office with the daughter of the seller and the seller and it's done that day. Your gf may need a letter of consent (form is supplied by district office) where the head of her last household gives her permission to move out, as well as her old housebook. Check if you need this, because if you do then you can get it in advance and save a trip. Your gf and the seller's daughter will also need new ID cards issued after the changes.

4. Yes it would be because it would affect the deed and any interested party would need to know.

[JHolmesJr]

So....what do I do to move forward....?

That Lego mansion set is looking more and more attractive by the minute.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Thanks Blackcab and BeachProperty for you informative posts.

Because the property is not a lot of money I was hoping to keep things simple and just meet at the land office and if the deed is transferred, hand over the money. I wanted to keep a Thai lawyer out of it because I don't trust any of them. Whats more, I have searched locally around here and I cant find one anyway which means I would probably have to use one from another province which I am loath to do.

As Beach property has confirmed you can have one person own the land and another own the house. That is why I had a red flag go up in my mind when I saw that that the mother's name was on the deed and the daughter's on the house book. Also, as I stated earlier, the deed is currently held by a loan shark who lent money (150K) to the daughter to build the house.

I have spent a good deal of time in the last few weeks reviewing property prices around here and speaking with local old landed thais hereabouts about price per talang wah for NSSG land and the property at 410KTHB is cheap. However, I do not want to buy someone elses problems.

The daughter is in trouble because she does not make enough money to service the debt on the loan from the loan shark. If the property is not sold, eventually he will get it (and for just 150K, the amount of the original loan). That is why the daughter is in a rush to sell. As with many Thais her money problems are being exacerbated by her lifestyle. She has a worthless Thai boyfriend and the front of their house is littered with empty alcohol bottles and cigarette butts.

So....what do I do to move forward....?

I have reviewed the plans that the daughter submitted to the Tessaban. They are stamped and dated by the Tessaban. The house has been built to plan, HOWEVER, it has not been built in the same location as indicated in the plan. In the plan the house is well away from the property boundaries, however the house has actually been built with one of its roof lines running along the boundary shared with the neigbouse house. The wall under that roofline is about 1.5 metres back from the boundary. This is why I asked the question about when does the Tessaban tick off on the final inspection of the house. Because she has already been issued with a housebook, does that mean that the Tessaban can not come back in the future and ask me to knock down the house because it has been built in a spot not indicated on the submitted drawings?

Although there is a power pole and a place for a meter directly in front of the house the daughter has not yet connected the power and has a long extension lead running over the road to her mothers house. She is broke and cannot afford the 15K deposit. I understand that you have to have a house book when going to the PEA to apply for connection of Electricity, and so want to make sure that my girl, the new incoming owner, will not have any problems getting a house book in her name.

So I still have some questions and if anyone can shed some light that would be greatly appreciated:

• Who owns the house in this case? The mother's name is on the title deed, but the daughter has borrowed money to build the house and the plans submitted to the Tessban and the housebook are in the daughter's name.
• Does the fact that the daughter already has a new housebook mean that the Tessaban has already ticked off on (did a final inspection of the house) and the boundary issue I have listed above can not come back to bite me in the future. I should note here that most of the houses in the area are actually built right on the boundaries of their properties.
• How does my girlfriend (the new incoming buyer) get her name on the housebook.? I really want to know the process so I have some certainty we can get a new housebook, because, without it, we won't be able to get the electricity meter connected by the PEA.
• Currently there is nothing (no leases or interests etc) stamped on the back of the title deed. If the daughter had registered her ownership of the house at the Land Office (as Beach Property advised above) would that interest then be stamped on the back of the title deed?

Thank in advance for anyone who can help.

1. The mother owns the house. As beachproperty said, there is nothing registered on the deed to make it otherwise.

2. I doubt the tessaban will do any further inspection. It's not unusual for the plans to not really match the building in reality. As long as a house book has been issued that is the main thing.

3. Your girlfriend goes to the district office with the daughter of the seller and the seller and it's done that day. Your gf may need a letter of consent (form is supplied by district office) where the head of her last household gives her permission to move out, as well as her old housebook. Check if you need this, because if you do then you can get it in advance and save a trip. Your gf and the seller's daughter will also need new ID cards issued after the changes.

4. Yes it would be because it would affect the deed and any interested party would need to know.

Thanks blackcab for your very helpful input.

My girl is on her parent's house book but they live in Nong Khai province which is literally on the other end of Thailand from here.

1. So she would need to get the consent form from the Amphur office here and then send it up to him for his signature? That is problematic as he is currently in hospital with bowel cancer and in a bad way.
2. Do they issue the new ID cards at the Amphur office also (and at the same time when you get your new house book)?

So I guess I can move forward as follows:

• Draft a sales contract that includes both the mothers and daughters details and states that the mother is selling the land with the house thereon and the daughter agrees to the sale and has no further right or claim to the house. The contract should also provide that the daughter also provides the original of her housebook and the original of the plans submitted to the Tessaban to my girlfriend.
• Get my girlfriend to check at the Amphur what is required to obtain a new house book. If the form is required as blackcab kindly suggests we will have to send that express post up to Nong Khai and get dad to fill it out on his death bed.
• Then meet at the land office with the mother, daughter, the loan shark, my girl and me. Have the deed transferred into the GFs name and then across the road to the Amphur office to get her the housebook.

Anyone have a word version of a sales contract in English and Thai I can have a copy of?