UK: Jonathan King arrested in child sex offences probe

[mercman24]

i was a "roadie" in that era,were any of you in the pop scene ?,i doubt, well i was, as a poster said 14 year olds dressing to look like 19 s, just go into any nightclub in the uk today, its same same, and even in nightclubs in bangkok. so dont post about something you know nothing about, you are just guessing,

[Acharn]

It seems that all those by gone era were partaking in under age parties, those were the days I guess

and morality was not as politically correct and furious as now.....

You really think it's not going on now?

[Acharn]

That's just a fairy tale, it never actually happened."

yet it is accepted as fact and as the basis for a religion? Was 14 an acceptable age for sex in those times? I dont remember any religious leaders condemning his actions!

Yes, 14 was quite a common age for marriage and child-bearing. Remember that women had to have lots of children to have a chance that at least two would survive to adulthood. Marriage at 12 was not unknown or condemned. Why should it be? Childhood as we think of it did not exist. You started working to the limits of your strength and endurance when you were five or six.It's only the last hundred years or so that people have set the age of consent so high.

[Johpa]

And just who are the victims? The perpatrators or the "young " people? Any man who has been approached by a precocious 15 year old (who looks 19) or any person who is encouraged by a youngish person to engage in "silly stuff" has to be made of stone to reject the advances!

Or as Randle McMurphy (Jack Nicholson) said it in One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest:

"She was fifteen years old, going on thirty-five, Doc, and she told me she was eighteen, she was very willing, I practically had to take to sewing my pants shut. Between you and me, uh, she might have been fifteen, but when you get that little red beaver right up there in front of you, I don't think it's crazy at all and I don't think you do either. No man alive could resist that, and that's why I got into jail to begin with. And now they're telling me I'm crazy over here because I don't sit there like a goddamn vegetable. Don't make a bit of sense to me. If that's what being crazy is, then I'm senseless, out of it, gone-down-the-road, wacko. But no more, no less, that's it."

Disclaimer: I have no idea who Jonathan King is and I have no idea as to the age of the alleged victims.

[Baerboxer]

That's just a fairy tale, it never actually happened."

yet it is accepted as fact and as the basis for a religion? Was 14 an acceptable age for sex in those times? I dont remember any religious leaders condemning his actions!

Until comparatively recently in most cultures, certainly those based on the three Abrahamic religions, the age of consent was reckoned to be the onset of puberty. Which for girls can be any age between 8 and 14, boys 9 and 14; depending on a range of factors (source).

These days, rightly, physical maturity is not sufficient; some element of mental maturity is required as well, so most countries have an age of consent at 16 or above.

The legal age of consent for heterosexual sex in England and Wales was first set in the 12th century at 10, this was raised to 13 in 1875 and to 16 in 1885.

Spain raised it's age of consent from 13 to 16 this year!

Do you think the initial low age in the 12 century reflected the much shorter life expectancy and the need therefore to breed more quickly?

That it took several hundred years before the element of mental maturity was taken into consideration would fit with the developments of understanding the mind in the later parts of the 19th Century.

Not really relevant to this case I guess but an interesting aside.

[musiclover]

i was a "roadie" in that era,were any of you in the pop scene ?,i doubt, well i was, as a poster said 14 year olds dressing to look like 19 s, just go into any nightclub in the uk today, its same same, and even in nightclubs in bangkok. so dont post about something you know nothing about, you are just guessing,

Well I was in the pop scene, so here's one ! It is true about about 14 year olds dressing up to look 19, but that is NOT what happened here at Walton . JK and some pals (CD) deliberately targeted these young males and used their status to entice them...not very difficult I imagine. Furthemore, this was not even kept a secret as the whole industry was aware of it around 1970 if I recall correctly.

JK was an obnoxious guy and I and many others of that era have no sympathy for him now...

[Scott]

Inflammatory posts and replies removed.

[Seastallion]

For the sympathisers that try to argue that the age of consent was lower in days of yore (but it wasn't in 1970, so it's an empty argument), or that attitudes were different then..... As a child of the late 60's/early 70's, I keenly remember my mother's warnings about "dirty old men" and not to accept lollies, lifts, or invitations from strangers, and not to let anyone "touch" me. Most kids that I knew at the time had the same lectures.

This indicates that "dirty old men" were indeed despised and feared, which in turn indicates that they were an aberration...NOT NORMAL.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

And just who are the victims? The perpatrators or the "young " people? Any man who has been approached by a precocious 15 year old (who looks 19) or any person who is encouraged by a youngish person to engage in "silly stuff" has to be made of stone to reject the advances!

Or as Randle McMurphy (Jack Nicholson) said it in One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest:

"She was fifteen years old, going on thirty-five, Doc, and she told me she was eighteen, she was very willing, I practically had to take to sewing my pants shut. Between you and me, uh, she might have been fifteen, but when you get that little red beaver right up there in front of you, I don't think it's crazy at all and I don't think you do either. No man alive could resist that, and that's why I got into jail to begin with. And now they're telling me I'm crazy over here because I don't sit there like a goddamn vegetable. Don't make a bit of sense to me. If that's what being crazy is, then I'm senseless, out of it, gone-down-the-road, wacko. But no more, no less, that's it."

Disclaimer: I have no idea who Jonathan King is and I have no idea as to the age of the alleged victims.

Yeah, but these were fourteen to fifteen year old boys... and JK is repulsive in every way. A predator. We aren't talking about young girls who look older.

[7by7]

(Nested quotes removed for clarity and to comply with forum software)

Until comparatively recently in most cultures, certainly those based on the three Abrahamic religions, the age of consent was reckoned to be the onset of puberty. Which for girls can be any age between 8 and 14, boys 9 and 14; depending on a range of factors (source).

These days, rightly, physical maturity is not sufficient; some element of mental maturity is required as well, so most countries have an age of consent at 16 or above.

The legal age of consent for heterosexual sex in England and Wales was first set in the 12th century at 10, this was raised to 13 in 1875 and to 16 in 1885.

Spain raised it's age of consent from 13 to 16 this year!

Do you think the initial low age in the 12 century reflected the much shorter life expectancy and the need therefore to breed more quickly?

That it took several hundred years before the element of mental maturity was taken into consideration would fit with the developments of understanding the mind in the later parts of the 19th Century.

Not really relevant to this case I guess but an interesting aside.

Indeed, as already well said

Yes, 14 was quite a common age for marriage and child-bearing. Remember that women had to have lots of children to have a chance that at least two would survive to adulthood. Marriage at 12 was not unknown or condemned. Why should it be? Childhood as we think of it did not exist. You started working to the limits of your strength and endurance when you were five or six.It's only the last hundred years or so that people have set the age of consent so high.

But, of course, that is no excuse for child sexual abuse in the modern world.

[Acharn]

But, of course, that is no excuse for child sexual abuse in the modern world.

You know, I really dislike that phrase, "sexual abuse." It is far too vague, utterly meaningless. It reminds me of the old days when people were prosecuted for "the abominable crime against nature whose name must not be spoken." In this case we're probably talking about sodomy and/or anal rape. I think some girl children were raped, too. In America now we have teenagers being prosecuted for distributing child pornography because they sent nude pictures of themselves to a boy or girl friend. This case is not one, but there are some terrible miscarriages of justice because people write laws too hastily without considering the consequences because they want to control other people's sexual behavior.

[stevenl]

But, of course, that is no excuse for child sexual abuse in the modern world.

You know, I really dislike that phrase, "sexual abuse." It is far too vague, utterly meaningless. It reminds me of the old days when people were prosecuted for "the abominable crime against nature whose name must not be spoken." In this case we're probably talking about sodomy and/or anal rape. I think some girl children were raped, too. In America now we have teenagers being prosecuted for distributing child pornography because they sent nude pictures of themselves to a boy or girl friend. This case is not one, but there are some terrible miscarriages of justice because people write laws too hastily without considering the consequences because they want to control other people's sexual behavior.

As you say, that is not the case here.

[MaeJoMTB]

But, of course, that is no excuse for child sexual abuse in the modern world.

You know, I really dislike that phrase, "sexual abuse." It is far too vague, utterly meaningless. It reminds me of the old days when people were prosecuted for "the abominable crime against nature whose name must not be spoken." In this case we're probably talking about sodomy and/or anal rape. I think some girl children were raped, too. In America now we have teenagers being prosecuted for distributing child pornography because they sent nude pictures of themselves to a boy or girl friend. This case is not one, but there are some terrible miscarriages of justice because people write laws too hastily without considering the consequences because they want to control other people's sexual behavior.

I think you will find some of the recent 'guilty' convictions re hi-profile persons committed such heinous crimes as.

Feeling a 15 year old waitress bum through her clothing (Rolf Harris).

Touching an office girls breast on top of her dress. (DLT)

Why you would want to assume this case is so serious is beyond me.

The UK police are out of control, chasing 'personalities' in a witch hunt for trivial offences.

Edited September 11, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[brewsterbudgen]

Didn't JK discover Genesis?