Palestine flag to be raised over UN

[Seastallion]

I respect the Gatestone institute a heck of a lot more than totally biased All Jaz.

That is because you like lies for israel, not my problem really.

Perhaps you like Israel demonizing narratives. An All Jazz speciality.

When the hat fits, Israel should wear it.

Why is AJ banned in so many Muslim countries, and their journalists harassed and arrested in others? Because it is unbiased, both in it's perspective of Muslims as well as Jews and Christians.

[Jingthing]

Nope it is well known that the All Jazz management is rabidly anti-Israel. OK not as bad as Iranian propaganda but getting there.

Yawn....it is well known that you spend much of your time on this website defending Israeli crimes against humanity.I doubt you would know the truth if you fell over it on your way to zionist central to collect your pay check.

Typical antisemitic rubbish.

[Seastallion]

The problem is that the Palestinian Arabs have lost numerous wars that they started, yet refuse to sign a peace treaty and keep shooting rockets at innocent civilians - hence the terrorist designation. They are the source of most of their own problems and always have been.

Worse than that. They are enabled by much of the Arab and/or Muslim world who cynically use Israel demonization as a cover for their own domestic failings.

That world could have solved the "Palestinian" "refugee" problem 10 times over and decades ago if they had wanted to. But they are such a useful tool for them why would they want to?

!!!! The absolute GALL to say that the world, or "Arab world" should solve the Palestinian refugee problem!!!!

How about directing your ire to the SOURCE of the problem?????

And that is, as if you don't know, Israel driving them out of their homeland.

[Seastallion]

Nope it is well known that the All Jazz management is rabidly anti-Israel. OK not as bad as Iranian propaganda but getting there.

Yawn....it is well known that you spend much of your time on this website defending Israeli crimes against humanity.I doubt you would know the truth if you fell over it on your way to zionist central to collect your pay check.

Typical antisemitic rubbish.

Hahaha....everything you don't like, especially the truth, is automatically "antisemitic".

[Ulysses G.]

You viciously demonize Zionism which at its core is a movement for political self determination of the Jewish people. So it would be obvious to any fair minded reader that you are deeply infected with the disease of Jew hatred.

Most of the obsessive anti-Israel types share this trait and a number do not even try to hide it.

[Jingthing]

You viciously demonize Zionism which at its core is a movement for political self determination of the Jewish people. So it would be obvious to any fair minded reader that you are deeply infected with the disease of Jew hatred.

Most of the obsessive anti-Israel types share this trait and a number do not even try to hide it.

Absolutely. There has been open cheerleading on this forum for the rhetoric of the Iranian regime towards Israel. That leaves no doubt.

[pbay]

Favourite pro israel argument is just call people jew haters and anti semites because they can not come up with any intelligent fact based argument..

Edited September 12, 2015 by pbay

[Jingthing]

Favourite pro israel argument is just call people jew haters and anti semites because they could not come up with any intelligent fact based argument..

My intelligent argument is that Israel deserves to exist and defend herself.

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic posts and replies removed.

This is a topic about a flag being raised. Continued off-topic, inflammatory post will result in more suspensions. One has already been given.

I suggest you proceed with extreme caution.

[Steely Dan]

Next up perhaps we can have flags for Atlantis and even Narnia raised over the UN building.

[ABCer]

Pardon me for not quoting your dreams, wishful thinking and not waving a "Palestinian" flag.

A non-entity like UN can afford another non-entity flag - there are more vacant holes, say for ISIS, ready for somebody to stick in it something.

However I am sorry do disappoint many hopefuls here.

There is no Palestinian State.

There never will be any.

And this is a fact that cannot be denied.

World Politicians may recognize its desirability but the Arabs of Gaza just like the Arabs of West bank do not want it.

To have a State you must have a Nation willing and able of building it. Like Jews who proved capable of building something so strong that most posters here can't sleep at night.

And they managed to build their Israel in very unfavorable conditions despite hostile neighbors and even against personal wishes of many TV posters here.

Now ask yourself what did your beloved Palestinian Arabs do in all this time when Jews have been busy building their State?

Nothing positive!

I almost said "nothing", - but checked myself. They screamed and cried and stole and dug and blown themselves up and preached death to Israel! That is all. I cannot see any State building in this.

Edited September 12, 2015 by ABCer

[chuckd]

Well said, ABCer.

[stevenl]

Pardon me for not quoting your dreams, wishful thinking and not waving a "Palestinian" flag.

A non-entity like UN can afford another non-entity flag - there are more vacant holes, say for ISIS, ready for somebody to stick in it something.

However I am sorry do disappoint many hopefuls here.

There is no Palestinian State.

There never will be any.

And this is a fact that cannot be denied.

World Politicians may recognize its desirability but the Arabs of Gaza just like the Arabs of West bank do not want it.

To have a State you must have a Nation willing and able of building it. Like Jews who proved capable of building something so strong that most posters here can't sleep at night.

And they managed to build their Israel in very unfavorable conditions despite hostile neighbors and even against personal wishes of many TV posters here.

Now ask yourself what did your beloved Palestinian Arabs do in all this time when Jews have been busy building their State?

Nothing positive!

I almost said "nothing", - but checked myself. They screamed and cried and stole and dug and blown themselves up and preached death to Israel! That is all. I cannot see any State building in this.

You're confusing facts with opinions.

[Ulysses G.]

That phony map has been discredited long ago. The Palestinian Arabs NEVER controlled much of that territory.

It is not a phony map . The map comes from the British survey of Palestine 1946

I hope this is not considered off topic, but It is a phony map and that fact has been pointed out many times before on this forum.

In the 1940s Jews owned about one third of the private land in Palestine and Arabs about two-thirds. The vast majority of the total land - about 77% of it - however, belonged to the government, (originally the Ottoman crown and then the British Mandate for Palestine) so when the state of Israel was established in 1945, it became legally Israel's. To say that the green areas were "Palestinian" land is quite simply a lie.

The second map is an an accurate representation of the partition plan, but it has nothing to do with land ownership. Israel accepted the partition and the Arabs did NOT.

Map 3 is another lie, because in no way was the green land "Palestinian" at that time. Gaza was administered by Egypt and the West Bank annexed by Jordan. No one back then spoke about a Palestinian Arab state on the areas controlled by Arab states..

[Thorgal]

That phony map has been discredited long ago. The Palestinian Arabs NEVER controlled much of that territory.

It is not a phony map . The map comes from the British survey of Palestine 1946

I hope this is not considered off topic, but It is a phony map and that fact has been pointed out many times before on this forum.

In the 1940s Jews owned about one third of the private land in Palestine and Arabs about two-thirds. The vast majority of the total land - about 77% of it - however, belonged to the government, (originally the Ottoman crown and then the British Mandate for Palestine) so when the state of Israel was established in 1945, it became legally Israel's. To say that the green areas were "Palestinian" land is quite simply a lie.

The second map is an an accurate representation of the partition plan, but it has nothing to do with land ownership. Israel accepted the partition and the Arabs did NOT.

Map 3 is another lie, because in no way was the green land "Palestinian" at that time. Gaza was administered by Egypt and the West Bank annexed by Jordan. No one back then spoke about a Palestinian Arab state on the areas controlled by Arab states..

Quote from link for this topic and all future related topics :

"Map showing Jewish-owned land as of 31 December 1944, including land owned in full, shared in undivided land and State Lands under concession. This constituted 6% of the total land area, of which more than half was held by the JNF and PICA."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine

The Palestinian flag originates from the Arab revolt against the Ottoman empire from 1916...long before the Jewish land purchase of 6%...(there was never one third land ownership as suggested...)

Edited September 12, 2015 by Thorgal

[Ulysses G.]

Quote from link for this topic and all future related topics :

"Map showing Jewish-owned land as of 31 December 1944, including land owned in full, shared in undivided land and State Lands under concession.

Sorry. Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Anyone can edit it. Read what it says at the top of the page.

"Last edited 21 days ago by an anonymous user"

Edited September 12, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

I don't know if there ever will be an actual Palestinian state or not but in the foreseeable future I'd say not.

[NeverSure]

!!!! The absolute GALL to say that the world, or "Arab world" should solve the Palestinian refugee problem!!!!

How about directing your ire to the SOURCE of the problem?????

And that is, as if you don't know, Israel driving them out of their homeland.

I've posted this too many times, but here we go again.

1. There is no such thing as a "Palestinian homeland". Historically there was a region called Palestine which encompassed parts of many nations. It was a geographical area.

2. There is and never was a nation called Palestine.

3. The so-called Palestinians hijacked that name under Arafat in the 1960's.

4. The so-called Palestinians aren't refugees. They are squatters. Historically they had no homeland and no nation. They were nomadic wanderers.

5. It is outrageous that a non-nation which isn't and never was could be recognized by the UN when they should simply be seen as the terrorists and usurpers that they are.

Edited September 12, 2015 by NeverSure

[thaibeachlovers]

Recognizing a "state" that is just a figment of the imagination, does not make it a nation. Some borders, leaders that govern the whole entity and a functioning economy would be a nice start.

When Israel evacuates the areas that were deigned to be Arab by the UN, then Palestine will be able to conform to your way of thinking. It's hard to be a nation when next door keeps stealing bits of your land.

Palestine is just as legal as Israel given that both were created at the same time by the UN. If Palestine is not a country then Israel isn't one either. You can't have it both ways. Israel only exists because the UN said it does.

Anyway, to get back on topic- Palestine flag over the UN, Israeli government upset, all good.

[thaibeachlovers]

!!!! The absolute GALL to say that the world, or "Arab world" should solve the Palestinian refugee problem!!!!

How about directing your ire to the SOURCE of the problem?????

And that is, as if you don't know, Israel driving them out of their homeland.

I've posted this too many times, but here we go again.

1. There is no such thing as a "Palestinian homeland". Historically there was a region called Palestine which encompassed parts of many nations. It was a geographical area.

2. There is and never was a nation called Palestine.

3. The so-called Palestinians hijacked that name under Arafat in the 1960's.

4. The so-called Palestinians aren't refugees. They are squatters. Historically they had no homeland and no nation. They were nomadic wanderers.

5. It is outrageous that a non-nation which isn't and never was could be recognized by the UN when they should simply be seen as the terrorists and usurpers that they are.

You seem to be wilfully ignoring that the UN CREATED Israel, and at the same time created an Arab area. That's a fact. They took an area known as the Palestine mandate and DIVIDED it between the Jews and the Arabs. They didn't say to the Zionists that "this bit is yours and you can take as much of the other bit as you like". If not for the US, Israel would have been compelled to evacuate the illegally occupied Arab area long ago, which shows the UN to be a US glove puppet.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed. The previous warning still stands and continued off-topic trolling will result in suspensions.

[Ulysses G.]

Palestine is just as legal as Israel given that both were created at the same time by the UN. If Palestine is not a country then Israel isn't one either. You can't have it both ways. Israel only exists because the UN said it does.

The UN did not "create" Palestine. They offered the Palestinian Arabs a DEAL to create Palestine, a DEAL which the Arabs REFUSED. In fact, the Arabs attacked Israel and declared war on them for ACCEPTING the UN deal. The Palestinians LOST the war AND they LOST the DEAL.

Now, after losing numerous other wars, they want to accept the deal - well some of them do - 70 years later. Flying a piece of cloth over the UN does not make an imaginary country real.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[NeverSure]

I've posted this too many times, but here we go again.

1. There is no such thing as a "Palestinian homeland". Historically there was a region called Palestine which encompassed parts of many nations. It was a geographical area.

2. There is and never was a nation called Palestine.

3. The so-called Palestinians hijacked that name under Arafat in the 1960's.

4. The so-called Palestinians aren't refugees. They are squatters. Historically they had no homeland and no nation. They were nomadic wanderers.

5. It is outrageous that a non-nation which isn't and never was could be recognized by the UN when they should simply be seen as the terrorists and usurpers that they are.

You seem to be wilfully ignoring that the UN CREATED Israel, and at the same time created an Arab area. That's a fact. They took an area known as the Palestine mandate and DIVIDED it between the Jews and the Arabs. They didn't say to the Zionists that "this bit is yours and you can take as much of the other bit as you like". If not for the US, Israel would have been compelled to evacuate the illegally occupied Arab area long ago, which shows the UN to be a US glove puppet.

^^^ Read UG's post above and he's exactly right. The Arabs rejected the UN idea and instead started warring against Israel. That pretty much culminated in the 6 day war which was started by Arabs of different ME countries but which Israel obviously won.

Had the Arabs accepted the UN deal and lived peacefully they might get their wish. But they rejected the UN and instead started wars and acts of terrorism against Israel. Now you'd like Israel to act like there never was any danger from Arabs but... I'll bet even you know better but just don't want to admit it.

How the UN can support the very Arabs that rejected their deal right in the place where the Arabs rejected it is beyond me.

Hey, I'm just quoting accurate history at you so go ahead with whatever spin you can generate next...

Cheers.

[Seastallion]

I've posted this too many times, but here we go again.

1. There is no such thing as a "Palestinian homeland". Historically there was a region called Palestine which encompassed parts of many nations. It was a geographical area.

2. There is and never was a nation called Palestine.

3. The so-called Palestinians hijacked that name under Arafat in the 1960's.

4. The so-called Palestinians aren't refugees. They are squatters. Historically they had no homeland and no nation. They were nomadic wanderers.

5. It is outrageous that a non-nation which isn't and never was could be recognized by the UN when they should simply be seen as the terrorists and usurpers that they are.

You seem to be wilfully ignoring that the UN CREATED Israel, and at the same time created an Arab area. That's a fact. They took an area known as the Palestine mandate and DIVIDED it between the Jews and the Arabs. They didn't say to the Zionists that "this bit is yours and you can take as much of the other bit as you like". If not for the US, Israel would have been compelled to evacuate the illegally occupied Arab area long ago, which shows the UN to be a US glove puppet.

^^^ Read UG's post above and he's exactly right. The Arabs rejected the UN idea and instead started warring against Israel. That pretty much culminated in the 6 day war which was started by Arabs of different ME countries but which Israel obviously won.

Had the Arabs accepted the UN deal and lived peacefully they might get their wish. But they rejected the UN and instead started wars and acts of terrorism against Israel. Now you'd like Israel to act like there never was any danger from Arabs but... I'll bet even you know better but just don't want to admit it.

How the UN can support the very Arabs that rejected their deal right in the place where the Arabs rejected it is beyond me.

Hey, I'm just quoting accurate history at you so go ahead with whatever spin you can generate next...

Cheers.

Without accepting your version of things, lets look at your argument from a different angle.....

Is Israel accepting the UN deal? NO it's not, not at all, in fact Israel thumbs it's nose to the UN all the time, except for UN recognition of the state....Israel accepts that bit. But Israel still has a right to exist, right?

[Ulysses G.]

Is Israel accepting the UN deal?

Of course it did. That is why Israel is a country. That does not mean that they have to agree with every UN resolution from then on until the end of time.

The Plan sought to address the conflicting objectives and claims of two competing movements: Arab nationalism in Palestine and Jewish nationalism, known as Zionism.[3][4] The Plan also called for Economic Union between the proposed states, and for the protection of religious and minority rights.

The Plan was accepted by the Jewish public, except for its fringes, and by the Jewish Agency despite its perceived limitations.[5][6]

Arab leaders and governments rejected the plan of partition in the resolution[7] and indicated an unwillingness to accept any form of territorial division.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

[ABCer]

Palestine is just as legal as Israel given that both were created at the same time by the UN. If Palestine is not a country then Israel isn't one either. You can't have it both ways. Israel only exists because the UN said it does.

thaibeachlover - wrong, wrong and wrong again!

1 - UN didn't create Israel. The buggers have no power and no authority for such an act. Israel created itself by declaration. Then it fought for recognition. Then it fought against aggression. And it won! And it built itself!

2 - After numerous defeats, seeing that "Death to Israel!" does not work, Arabs of Palestine decided to 'accept' Israel within 1947 or 1967 boundaries! But they are the losers not the winners! Jews are stupid (IMHO) but not that much.

3 - There was never and never will be a State named Palestine. It is a geographical name of the region. The region was sparsely populated by nomadic Arabs and some Jews. With very little hostilities between them.

4 - Nothing exists because UN says it does. Nothing stops existing because UN says it must. UN is an atavism - useless piece of history existing for self preservation of its corrupt powerless officials.

NeverSure, with all due respect: "5. It is outrageous that a non-nation which isn't and never was could be recognized by the UN when they should simply be seen as the terrorists and usurpers that they are."

1 - UN wishful thinking is irrelevant. Arabs of Palestine are not a Nation. They lack coherence of a nation, ability to work together for positive outcome. Anyone who disagrees is welcome to point out what positive did they build in the same time that Jews used to build Israel as we see it. And the wars were not an excuse - it existed for both sides - not to mention who started and perpetuated it. Please, don't mention rockets, bombs, tunnels, mosques and a generation of Jihadis.

2 - A piece of cloth whatever colour - is just a piece of cloth. Whether UN is using it or not and for whatever purpose. A flag does not make a Nation. A Nation makes its flag.

3 - A Nation must be represented by its Government. "Palestinians" are represented by a terrorist group - HAMAS. This speaks much about the same UN I value so little.

Without accepting your version of things, lets look at your argument from a different angle.....

Is Israel accepting the UN deal? NO it's not, not at all, in fact Israel thumbs it's nose to the UN all the time, except for UN recognition of the state....Israel accepts that bit. But Israel still has a right to exist, right?

Seastallion,

1 - Israel has the right not to accept the offered 'deal' which threatens its security. Generally speaking anybody can not accept an offer...

2 - Israelis have no alternative but to snub their noses at UN or start marching into the next Holocaust. I understand and sympathize with their position. Actually I think they pay too much attention to the 'World opinion'.

3 - 'Right to Exist' as you recall - is a fiction, idea. You exist if you can. If you can not - you do not exist. Israel exists! You and millions of its enemies do not like it, but never mind... I prefer Israel to "State of Palestine" - less troubles for all.

[Seastallion]

Is Israel accepting the UN deal?

Of course it did. That is why Israel is a country. That does not mean that they have to agree with every UN resolution from then on until the end of time.

The Plan sought to address the conflicting objectives and claims of two competing movements: Arab nationalism in Palestine and Jewish nationalism, known as Zionism.[3][4] The Plan also called for Economic Union between the proposed states, and for the protection of religious and minority rights.

The Plan was accepted by the Jewish public, except for its fringes, and by the Jewish Agency despite its perceived limitations.[5][6]

Arab leaders and governments rejected the plan of partition in the resolution[7] and indicated an unwillingness to accept any form of territorial division.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

You have, as per usual, quoted me out of context.

NS used the argument that the Palestinians didn't accept the UN deal and therefore they missed the opportunity to form an independent state.

I say Israel did not accept the deal, yet they still have a right to exist as a state. They may have accepted it at the time, but have since reneged.

Reneging is effectively "unaccepting" a deal.

[Ulysses G.]

Nope. You are absolutely wrong and I quoted you directly. Israel ACCEPTED the UN deal. The Arabs REFUSED it. Those are irrefutable facts that are in any credible history book.

[dexterm]

UN members voted 119 for, 8 against to fly the Palestinian flag.

UN member countries voted 70% for recognition of the state of Palestinian with more to follow.

Despite all the Israeli apologists' phony semantics over the word Palestine and spurious history that is meaningless in 2015 anyway, the world knows the truth. The flag is flying, and it ain't going to be unflown. Palestine is recognized by the majority of the world's countries, and it aint going to be unrecognized.

So Israel needs to face reality, make a just peace with its neighbors, and jointly build a prosperous secure future side by side, with both their flags flying in Jerusalem as well as outside the UN.

Shalom.

Edited September 13, 2015 by dexterm

[Seastallion]

Nope. You are absolutely wrong and I quoted you directly. Israel ACCEPTED the UN deal. The Arabs REFUSED it. Those are irrefutable facts that are in any credible history book.

No, you are wrong...you are completely ignoring what I said and ignoring the context of what I said. As usual.

You quoted me, yes, but out of context, as I also said.

Israel accepted the deal, then reneged on it by going outside the borders that it agreed to.

Irrefutable.

Irrefutable unless they withdraw to 1947 borders.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Seastallion