Drivers license no longer ok for ID?

[chiang mai]

I would guess that they have remembered another easy way to make easy money, or another way to annoy a foreigner

or both

you're required to carry your passport or approved copies of same. guests have certain responsibilities beside crying.

Please show me the police rule or the legislation that says non-Thai's must carry their passports with them at all time. And just in case you forget, non-Thai's includes citizens of Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, China and Myanmar.

[thesetat2013]

A driving licence doesn't show one's immigration status, which, in the current hysteria over the bombing suspects, might account for the tightening up.

However a Thai Driving License does show your passport number.

Brewster is correct.

Drivers licences don't show your current visa status which is what they are interested in.

When making a copy to carry with you make sure your current visa, departure card and 90 reporting stamp are all on the photocopy.

A photocopy IS acceptable and if they fine you then you should take it up with a higher authority or if you're out to make a statement refuse to pay and call a lawyer.

The BiB are not immigration and it is immigration who have jurisdiction over your immigration status and related matters.

I have occasionally seen a joint police/immigration operation where those stopped have been asked to report with their passport within 7 days.

If this is an ID matter then a DL is perfectly acceptable - just tell the jumped up little pr!ck that if a DL is acceptable ID for Air Asia then it is good enough for the RTP!

I go for the scam angle - or an issue with bar.

A policeman/woman has every right and duty to require you prove a legal presence in the country. A driving licence provides no such evidence.

You are quite wrong in your comment since you can not get a DL unless you have proved with passports and visas that you are not only legal to be in the country but also that you have a valid non b visa and a residence here. So a valid DL should be sufficient as proof. Even if you have a 5 year license it still proves who you are and it is not a local policeman's job to enforce immigration rules

[jphasia]

A driving licence doesn't show one's immigration status, which, in the current hysteria over the bombing suspects, might account for the tightening up.

However a Thai Driving License does show your passport number.

Yes Thai Driving Licence show passport number but if you renew your passport within the validity of your driving licence, you have a different number. I changed 3 times my passport since my last driving licence was issued (5 years) because i am travelling a lot and the passport number on my driving licence is not matching with my current passport

You should (by law) change the details on your driving licence when you get a new passport and yes you do need a Certificate of Residence to do it.

Ok. Will do then. However, during driving control, i have always been requested to present my driving licence only, not the passport. During our control (i.e immigration id) I have always been requested to present my passport as foreigner. Which make sense to me.

[chrissables]

It has often been discussed and I remember one statement from a high ranking police officer saying that carrying copies would be accepted.

It is also quite certain that foreigners got trouble for not carrying copies at least.

So this case is not a first timer.

Be aware that we have a nervous situation after the bombing and the scandalous reports that Thai immigration let foreigners in without registering (for a bribe).

I always have copies with me (main page, pages with visa, extension stamp and departure card).

But can not proof whether it will always be acceptable, as I never been asked for on the spot

When doing overnight/distant trips, I always have the original passport with me.

Hotel where I stay checks carefully and writes down data from the passport.

Always searching for the extension stamp/admitted until.

I have had fun and games with hotels about this. I will show them only my name and passport number. They are not immigration and have no right to check my visa details.

I tell them to get immigration to come and check if they want, or i will find a different hotel.

Always i have stayed and no immigration has arrived.

The hotel needs to give Immi all your details.You are just bullying the staff,no wonder farangs get a bad name.A few hotels i go to regularly haven't asked for any id from me what so ever.I doubt they keep my records from 5 years back.Just shows different approaches i guess.

I don't bully anyone. Or if i do, it is the owner of the hotel, not the staff.

Is it a rule or law that a person with possibly no knowledge of immigration law, possibly not able to read English should be allowed to nose around in my passport?

If the law, i will suffer it of course. But as we many things here in Thailand a command from a person in power suddenly gets interpreted as law?

If immigration want to know surely they can input my name and passport number to check, rather than expecting hotel staff to do so.

More to the point as i have already stated, most of the time i am never asked for my passport, which makes the scheme completely useless as a security check.

[Ace of Pop]

Driving License is fine.25 years here ,no prob..

[Robert24]

I would guess that they have remembered another easy way to make easy money, or another way to annoy a foreigner

or both

you're required to carry your passport or approved copies of same. guests have certain responsibilities beside crying.

Please show me the police rule or the legislation that says non-Thai's must carry their passports with them at all time. And just in case you forget, non-Thai's includes citizens of Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, China and Myanmar.

well it's not about what the law exactly states. If you are in this situation as described, you have the option to pay 500 baht and get on with life or to go to the police station, waste plenty of hours and possibily you walk away at the end without a fine. But only maybe, maybe they will still insist on a fine...

My recommendation: sometimes here you have to pay a small fine and move on with life. Avoid problems in this country, especially with the police. Maybe next time carry a copy of the passport and try it that way..

[Liquorice]

Apart from my Thai DL, I only carry copies of other documents under the seat of my motorcycle.

About a month ago, every bike and car was being pulled over at a major intersection in the middle of Issan.

This wasn't just a case of helmets, seat belts or DL, they wanted all documents.

I waited in a queue, one by one watching every Thai issued a ticket and being pointed to the 'tent' to pay a fine.

Many protested profusely, but to no avail.

I thought my number was up being a foreigner, they were going to screw me for something.

I had my DL ready, tax displayed, but only copies of my Insurance, Registration book, Passport and current Extension stamp.

After carefully perusing through what documents I had, the Police officer waved me through.

'Thai no good, Farang very good' he said with a smile.

So to answer the question, yes copies of your documents are accepted as forms of proof.

They do have the right to hold you at a PS until the genuine Passport is supplied if they have any doubts, but they don't have the right to fine you on the spot without giving you the opportunity to produce an original document.

[Jip99]

I would guess that they have remembered another easy way to make easy money, or another way to annoy a foreigner

or both

you're required to carry your passport or approved copies of same. guests have certain responsibilities beside crying.

Please show me the police rule or the legislation that says non-Thai's must carry their passports with them at all time. And just in case you forget, non-Thai's includes citizens of Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, China and Myanmar.

Spot on!

NOBODY - and that includes the British Embassy, UK Passport Agency, Ask the Lawyer on here, or any Mod - has been avble to provide ANY legal reference for carrying a passport. Even the scanned police receipt on refers to identification.

That is consistent with the law which only requires you to carry ID. I will repeat the deputy general's words that foreigners cannot be expected to carry their passports and it was perfectly reasonable to keep them in hotel safes etc.

I am not saying that, for expats residing in Thailand, it is not sensible to carry photocopies of the main passport page, visa/extension details and TM6. I do - a copy in my wallet and a copy in the car.

[biplanebluey]

A driving licence doesn't show one's immigration status, which, in the current hysteria over the bombing suspects, might account for the tightening up.

Sorry Brewster but you are wrong.If they could be bothered or should I say if they were actually more interested in finding out if some foreigner was legal or not rather than just stinging him for 500bt then all he had to do was to look at the bottom right of the licence and the Passport No is printed there.Just had to check the computer that was no doubt sitting looking at him with a blank look(screen!!!!) Just another lazy attitude of the authorities but HEY!!!!! we're on our way to another million Bt in our bank and who cares what these bloody foreigners feel anyway

[biplanebluey]

Apart from my Thai DL, I only carry copies of other documents under the seat of my motorcycle.

About a month ago, every bike and car was being pulled over at a major intersection in the middle of Issan.

This wasn't just a case of helmets, seat belts or DL, they wanted all documents.

I waited in a queue, one by one watching every Thai issued a ticket and being pointed to the 'tent' to pay a fine.

Many protested profusely, but to no avail.

I thought my number was up being a foreigner, they were going to screw me for something.

I had my DL ready, tax displayed, but only copies of my Insurance, Registration book, Passport and current Extension stamp.

After carefully perusing through what documents I had, the Police officer waved me through.

'Thai no good, Farang very good' he said with a smile.

So to answer the question, yes copies of your documents are accepted as forms of proof.

They do have the right to hold you at a PS until the genuine Passport is supplied if they have any doubts, but they don't have the right to fine you on the spot without giving you the opportunity to produce an original document.

YEA--- they "don't have the right"------ you are a scream mate------ If you had been taken to the PS you probably have paraded out side with your banner---way to go---- don't forget to send pictures

[Liquorice]

A driving licence doesn't show one's immigration status, which, in the current hysteria over the bombing suspects, might account for the tightening up.

Sorry Brewster but you are wrong.If they could be bothered or should I say if they were actually more interested in finding out if some foreigner was legal or not rather than just stinging him for 500bt then all he had to do was to look at the bottom right of the licence and the Passport No is printed there.Just had to check the computer that was no doubt sitting looking at him with a blank look(screen!!!!) Just another lazy attitude of the authorities but HEY!!!!! we're on our way to another million Bt in our bank and who cares what these bloody foreigners feel anyway

So what does that prove?

A Thai DL isn't proof of ID because it doesn't carry any biometrics.

Thai ID cards and Passports carry biometrics to confirm the holder of that ID is the person they claim to be.

[Liquorice]

Apart from my Thai DL, I only carry copies of other documents under the seat of my motorcycle.

About a month ago, every bike and car was being pulled over at a major intersection in the middle of Issan.

This wasn't just a case of helmets, seat belts or DL, they wanted all documents.

I waited in a queue, one by one watching every Thai issued a ticket and being pointed to the 'tent' to pay a fine.

Many protested profusely, but to no avail.

I thought my number was up being a foreigner, they were going to screw me for something.

I had my DL ready, tax displayed, but only copies of my Insurance, Registration book, Passport and current Extension stamp.

After carefully perusing through what documents I had, the Police officer waved me through.

'Thai no good, Farang very good' he said with a smile.

So to answer the question, yes copies of your documents are accepted as forms of proof.

They do have the right to hold you at a PS until the genuine Passport is supplied if they have any doubts, but they don't have the right to fine you on the spot without giving you the opportunity to produce an original document.

YEA--- they "don't have the right"------ you are a scream mate------ If you had been taken to the PS you probably have paraded out side with your banner---way to go---- don't forget to send pictures

Certainly not, I'd have happily waited at a Police station until such time my Passport could have been brought.

If travelling out of area then I always carry my passport, otherwise copies locally.

[Soutpeel]

This is just a local police deal. Driving license lets us get on a domestic flight without having to show a passport so its a legal document. No need to carry your passport unless the police on mass decide to stop us all every time we go out of our doors. You guys were just unlucky. Annoying and cost 500baht but no need to worry I think.

Yes they let you on a domestic flight, and i know guys who have been let on domestic flight with their offshore BOSIET cards...anything with a photo and your name on it and looking "official" will get you on a domestic flight and guess what i suspect over the next few months, they will be wanting to see your PP on domestic flights

A Thai DL is not legal proof of identity and legal status is Thailand its only legal function is to show you have a valid Thai DL

Yes but, I use my Thai DL for just about every - ID need and have not had any pushback at all, even at banks (for easy tasks). I use it at all HOTELs in the Kingdom with full acceptance. The ID has your passport number clearly printed on it. Thus, keeping a copy of your passport with visa stamps to show the numbers match up to the Thai DL is normally all you need if an official of sort, asks for your Passport. A visiting friend of mine once called Thailand "the land of not quite right" for the most part that statement seems to fit. It helps to smile be polite not argue and dress smart; a recipe that helps keep one out of their [police] target. Perhaps because mostly the police tend to prey on the half-dressed troglodyte, off his guard. It's more oppressive here now than it ever was, I fight my inner reasoning to continue this way of life. We'll never be Thai or fully accepted yet we expats love this country. The conundrum continues.

Yes and so do I and have done so for many years but the fact remains its still not a "legal" ID for a foreigner, the passport number alone proves nothing, your own statement proves it by saying you have copies of your passport to show the numbers match on the DL, if it was a recognised ID similar to a Thai ID card you wouldn't need copies of your PP would you ?

As to the rest of your political manifesto and soap boxing, if its so bad and oppressive here, you do have options you know, I know if I lived somewhere and hated the place do much and despised the natives as much as some on TV do,

I would have left and found myself a "happier" place to be .......Thailand oppressive LOL shows how little you have travelled then LOL

[Chicken George]

Getting hot in here!;-)

[Chicken George]

I will not carry my passport in normal day to day going out. I will take it when going away. Its not worth the risk to loose it or get it stolen. Rather pay a fine but that's virtually at the moment never heard of. I do understand the police are being told to look out for foreigners and check them but in this instance maybe Asian looking not farang. I will have my Thai driving licence with me in the car. Yes the police in Chiang Mai are a little keen. Normal service continues.

[MaeJoMTB]

So what does that prove?

A Thai DL isn't proof of ID because it doesn't carry any biometrics.

Thai ID cards and Passports carry biometrics to confirm the holder of that ID is the person they claim to be.

My UK passport doesn't contain any biometrics either.

As far as I know no UK passport issued to a UK citizen carries biometric data.

(And my bro got a new passport 2 months back in person at the passport center behind Victoria Station, no biometrics required, none ever previously given or requested)

As for bowing down to a corrupt policeman, no I don't, not even if he's gonna shoot me.

Corrupt Thai police officers, when challenged, usually (always) back down, are they really gonna risk an 'inactive post' for a minor confrontation with a foreigner?

Edited September 14, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[Soutpeel]

So what does that prove?

A Thai DL isn't proof of ID because it doesn't carry any biometrics.

Thai ID cards and Passports carry biometrics to confirm the holder of that ID is the person they claim to be.

My UK passport doesn't contain any biometrics either.

As far as I know no UK passport issued to a UK citizen carries biometric data.

(And my bro got a new passport 2 months back in person at the passport center behind Victoria Station, no biometrics required, none ever previously given or requested)

As for bowing down to a corrupt policeman, no I don't, not even if he's gonna shoot me.

Corrupt Thai police officers, when challenged, usually (always) back down, are they really gonna risk an 'inactive post' for a minor confrontation with a foreigner?

Yes it does, the photo is embeded in the pp and there is provision for finger prints in future currently on the chip its the photo and the info on the data page of your pp

[chiang mai]

So what does that prove?

A Thai DL isn't proof of ID because it doesn't carry any biometrics.

Thai ID cards and Passports carry biometrics to confirm the holder of that ID is the person they claim to be.

My UK passport doesn't contain any biometrics either.

As far as I know no UK passport issued to a UK citizen carries biometric data.

(And my bro got a new passport 2 months back in person at the passport center behind Victoria Station, no biometrics required, none ever previously given or requested)

As for bowing down to a corrupt policeman, no I don't, not even if he's gonna shoot me.

Corrupt Thai police officers, when challenged, usually (always) back down, are they really gonna risk an 'inactive post' for a minor confrontation with a foreigner?

I think you're mistaken, all new UK passports contain biometrics these days, my renewal behind Vict. Sta. two years ago required them.

[MaeJoMTB]

Yes it does, the photo is embeded in the pp and there is provision for finger prints in future currently on the chip its the photo and the info on the data page of your pp

A photo isn't biometric data.

Provisions for the future don't count for anything.

Fingerprint, retina scan, DNA ....... now that's biometric data, something you can't change or disguise.

And it isn't in a UK passport.

Edited September 14, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[MaeJoMTB]

I think you're mistaken, all new UK passports contain biometrics these days, my renewal behind Vict. Sta. two years ago required them.

So what biometric data did they record from you?

And why didn't you offer that information in your last post?

[Soutpeel]

Yes it does, the photo is embeded in the pp and there is provision for finger prints in future currently on the chip its the photo and the info on the data page of your pp

A photo isn't biometric data.

Provisions for the future don't count for anything.

Fingerprint, retina scan, DNA ....... now that's biometric data.

And it isn't in a UK passport.

A photo is biometric data, there are 3 copies in your pp, one is the photo, the second is imprinted on one of the pages and the 3rd is on the chip - therefore very easy to see if the photo data has been changed in a pp and of course we dont know what sort of technology is being used as regards facial recognition

Further the correct title of these passports is a biometric passport and marked as such with the symbol on the cover

Edited September 14, 2015 by Soutpeel

[MaeJoMTB]

Yes it does, the photo is embeded in the pp and there is provision for finger prints in future currently on the chip its the photo and the info on the data page of your pp

A photo isn't biometric data.

Provisions for the future don't count for anything.

Fingerprint, retina scan, DNA ....... now that's biometric data.

And it isn't in a UK passport.

A photo is biometric data, there are 3 copies in your pp, one is the photo, the second is imprinted on one of the pages and the 3rd is on the chip - therefore very easy to see if the photo data has been changed in a pp and of course we dont know what sort of technology is being used as regards facial recognition

Further the correct title of these passports is a biometric passport and marked as such with the symbol on the cover

Fed up with this silly nitpicking argument.

If you want to claim a photo that I sent them (after fixing up the background and photoshopping) counts as biometric data, go on then.

I guess that would make my UK driving license (by your definition) 'biometric' too, as they copied the photo from my passport.

Edited September 14, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[Soutpeel]

Yes it does, the photo is embeded in the pp and there is provision for finger prints in future currently on the chip its the photo and the info on the data page of your pp

A photo isn't biometric data.

Provisions for the future don't count for anything.

Fingerprint, retina scan, DNA ....... now that's biometric data.

And it isn't in a UK passport.

A photo is biometric data, there are 3 copies in your pp, one is the photo, the second is imprinted on one of the pages and the 3rd is on the chip - therefore very easy to see if the photo data has been changed in a pp and of course we dont know what sort of technology is being used as regards facial recognition

Further the correct title of these passports is a biometric passport and marked as such with the symbol on the cover

Fed up with this silly nitpicking argument.

If you want to claim a photo that I sent them (after fixing up the background and photoshopping) counts as biometric data, go on then.

I guess that would make my UK driving license (by your definition) 'biometric' too, as they copied the photo from my passport.

Why are you get fed up with so called nit picking ? what has been stated is fact, and the British goverment themselves call this a biometric PP look it up youself

so if you have issue send a letter to your local MP telling them they are telling lies....

[chiang mai]

I think you're mistaken, all new UK passports contain biometrics these days, my renewal behind Vict. Sta. two years ago required them.

So what biometric data did they record from you?

And why didn't you offer that information in your last post?

What last post? You didn't ask! I didn't think it was relevant. I chose not to. I was trying to confuse you. My mom told me not to - take your pick.

The photograph is biometric, if you had read the instructions for the requirements of the photo you would know that. But since you've photoshopped yours it seems the person who verified the likeness has broken the law, as have you - go to jail, go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect two hundred dollars.

"All UK passports use facial biometrics to measure facial features. Passport photographs must meet the required standards to be used for biometrics. Any defects in the photograph might delay a passport application".

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/passport-photos-guide-for-photographers/guidance-for-photographers

Edited September 14, 2015 by chiang mai

[Liquorice]

So what does that prove?

A Thai DL isn't proof of ID because it doesn't carry any biometrics.

Thai ID cards and Passports carry biometrics to confirm the holder of that ID is the person they claim to be.

My UK passport doesn't contain any biometrics either.

As far as I know no UK passport issued to a UK citizen carries biometric data.

(And my bro got a new passport 2 months back in person at the passport center behind Victoria Station, no biometrics required, none ever previously given or requested)

As for bowing down to a corrupt policeman, no I don't, not even if he's gonna shoot me.

Corrupt Thai police officers, when challenged, usually (always) back down, are they really gonna risk an 'inactive post' for a minor confrontation with a foreigner?

The UK uses retina biometrics.

Believe it or not but just from those little passport photos you send, they have the technology to scan your retina from those tiny photos and it's encrypted on your passport.

At larger modernised airports they have the cameras to identify retina scans.

On several occasions I've only had to look into a camera which identifies my retina and I'm then allowed to proceed through.

Heathrow, Manchester, Guangzhou, Beijing all have the technology available.

Were you aware that Thai ID cards have their fingerprints encrypted on them.

It's not just photo evidence, they can be scanned to match prints if required.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Faz

[ukrules]

The UK uses retina biometrics.

Believe it or not but just from those little passport photos you send, they have the technology to scan your retina from those tiny photos and it's encrypted on your passport.

LOL, this is wrong.

[Maestro]

My UK passport doesn't contain any biometrics either.

As far as I know no UK passport issued to a UK citizen carries biometric data.

(And my bro got a new passport 2 months back in person at the passport center behind Victoria Station, no biometrics required, none ever previously given or requested)

As for bowing down to a corrupt policeman, no I don't, not even if he's gonna shoot me.

Corrupt Thai police officers, when challenged, usually (always) back down, are they really gonna risk an 'inactive post' for a minor confrontation with a foreigner?

I'm afraid you are wrong about that. Read here:

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20121015000000/www.direct.gov.uk/en/travelandtransport/passports/applicationinformation/dg_174159

All passports now issued in the UK are ‘biometric’. Biometric details are those which are unique to you – like your fingerprint, the iris of your eye, and your facial features.

You cannot see the biometrics because they are on an electronic chip, embedded, I believe, in the back cover of the passport.

[Jip99]

The UK uses retina biometrics.

Believe it or not but just from those little passport photos you send, they have the technology to scan your retina from those tiny photos and it's encrypted on your passport.

LOL, this is wrong.

Facial recognition is now used from the biometrics embedded in the passport chip.

The IRIS scheme was scrapped in 2013:-

Iris Recognition Immigration System (IRIS) was an initiative, launched in 2004,^[1] to provide automated clearance through UK immigration for certain frequent travellers. It was decommissioned in September 2013 in favour of e-passport entry using biometric data stored on the e-passport chip.

IRIS relied on biometric technology to authenticate identity and was part of the e-borders initiative of the UK Government. It was claimed^[1] that the system suffered from unacceptably high rate of false alerts, wrongly rejecting up to 10% of registered travellers.

The system cost about £4.9 million to develop and then about £4 million to operate.^[1]

[Maestro]

A driving licence doesn't show one's immigration status, which, in the current hysteria over the bombing suspects, might account for the tightening up.

Sorry Brewster but you are wrong.If they could be bothered or should I say if they were actually more interested in finding out if some foreigner was legal or not rather than just stinging him for 500bt then all he had to do was to look at the bottom right of the licence and the Passport No is printed there.Just had to check the computer that was no doubt sitting looking at him with a blank look(screen!!!!) Just another lazy attitude of the authorities but HEY!!!!! we're on our way to another million Bt in our bank and who cares what these bloody foreigners feel anyway

Are you quite sure that a police officer who checks a foreigner's identity in a restaurant or night club carries a computer with him with access to the immigration database?

[Maestro]

Certainly not, I'd have happily waited at a Police station until such time my Passport could have been brought.

...

This should always be an option acceptable to the police officer, in my opinion. In the case of the OP, we do not know if he was aware of it, and if he was, if he found it expedient to accept the issuance of a fine instead of exercising that option.