Israel struggles to counter Palestinian rock-throwing threat

[webfact]

Israel struggles to counter Palestinian rock-throwing threat
By ARON HELLER

JERUSALEM (AP) — After finding high-tech solutions to halt suicide bombings and rockets, tech-savvy Israel is struggling with the resurgence of a weapon dating back to David and Goliath: the hurled rock.

Rock throwing is becoming commonplace in Jerusalem amid a wave of Palestinian unrest, leading to calls for a harsh crackdown and adding to tensions over access to a key holy site. But the outbursts appear to be decentralized and unorganized, and any tough new measures risk setting off another full-fledged conflict.

The Palestinian rock thrower emerged as an iconic image of the first uprising against Israeli occupation in the 1980s and even as the second uprising last decade took on a more militant nature with suicide bombings and shooting attacks, rock throwing has been a regular feature of demonstrations since then. But in recent months, stone throwing has become a near daily occurrence in some neighborhoods of east Jerusalem, the section of the city captured by Israel in the 1967 Mideast war and claimed by the Palestinians as their capital.

After an Israeli motorist was killed when his car crashed after being pelted with stones on the eve of the Jewish New Year, the Israeli government pledged to crack down.

Israel quickly built a new fence and installed greater surveillance measures at the site of the attack, and the government has pushed for more lenient rules of engagement for police. It is also promising tougher minimum sentences for offenders and heavy fines for minors and their parents as part of a zero-tolerance approach.

"Rocks and firebombs are lethal weapons. They kill and have killed," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told his Cabinet on Sunday. "Those who try to harm us, we will harm them."

Over the weekend, police said it arrested 48 suspects in stone-throwing and firebombing incidents. Gilad Erdan, Israel's new minister of public security, has taken an even tougher line — and outraged the country's judiciary — by suggesting that the promotion of judges should be tied to how harshly they sentence Palestinian rock throwers.

Netanyahu appeared to side with Erdan on Sunday, saying "with all due respect to the courts," it is the government's "right and duty" to punish perpetrators as harshly as possible.

But at a special meeting Sunday, Israel's attorney general, Yehuda Weinstein, said he opposed the proposed changes in open-fire regulations or setting minimum penalties for stone throwers, saying the current regulations are sufficient. Under pressure from Netanyahu and other ministers, Weinstein agreed to search for a compromise ahead of another meeting Thursday.

Neither Israel nor the Palestinians seem interested in another round of major violence. But following last week's deadly rock-throwing incident, along with days of clashes at Jerusalem's most sensitive holy site, the city appears to be on the precipice of a crisis.

The main source of tension is the situation at the hilltop compound in Jerusalem known to Jews as the Temple Mount and to Muslims as the Noble Sanctuary.

The site is home to the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound, where Muslims believe the Prophet Muhammad ascended to heaven. It is located on the spot where the biblical Jewish Temples once stood.

The conflicting claims to the holy site in Jerusalem's Old City have frequently spilled over into violence.

In recent weeks, Israel has limited Muslim access to the mosque compound on several occasions to allow Jewish visitors to ascend. While Israel said this was a temporary move meant to reduce frictions, Muslims claim this is a violation of a longstanding "status quo" in place since Israel captured the area in 1967, and rumors have spread that Israel is plotting to take over the spot.

Netanyahu on Sunday called such suggestions "baseless, wild provocations" and said he was committed to preserving the status quo. More than 350 visitors toured the compound on Sunday with no violence.

For those living near where 64-year-old motorist Alexander Levlovich was killed last week, the new measures seem like a weak response to a danger that has been overlooked for some time. Rock attacks are rarely reported when they don't cause casualties.

"It seems to me like giving a painkiller to a cancer patient," said Nava Segev, a Jerusalem resident who says her home was hit with 17 firebombs in a single week. "This tradition of coming after something happens doesn't seem effective to me."

But Israel is limited in what it can do.

The rock throwing is mostly the domain of young men who appear to be unorganized and leaderless, making it hard for Israel to gather intelligence on pending attacks. Israel is also concerned that a harsh response to such attacks could lead to an escalation of violence, possibly igniting a new uprising. The collapse of peace talks last year and lack of contact between the two sides has only added to the tense environment.

Palestinians say the rock throwing is a visceral expression of frustration over their status in the city and particularly that of the mosque compound, where Israeli forces entered over the Rosh Hashanah holiday last week to disperse protesters who threw rocks and firecrackers. Palestinians consider the Israeli response excessive.

"We are talking about youth and kids who see on TV and social networks the practices of the Israeli police ... and they react to it with throwing mainly stones and in some instances firebombs to show that they are angry," said Adnan Husseini, the Palestinian minister for Jerusalem.

"Unfortunately, the Israeli government is responding to the anger of these kids with tough measures like allowing the use of live ammunition ... This is a license to kill."

While it is unlikely that the young rock throwers receive direct orders to carry out attacks, they operate in an ideological environment that encourages attacks on Jews, said Shaul Bartal, a reserve Israeli intelligence officer who is conducting research into the phenomenon of "lone wolf" attacks for Bar-Ilan University.

He said the new government measures may be able to make a dent, but short of infiltrating the Arab neighborhoods it would be hard to completely erase the threat.

"There can always be a situation where someone just decides to do something," he said. "Israel has to figure out a way to cope with that."


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-09-21

[RockyBeerbelly]

Ironic really!

The mighty Goliath Nathanyahu by means of extortion of the judicial system and of course with loads of guns vs. an oppressed people defending their religious site and their rightful homeland (merely with stones). I am sure king David would turn over in his grave if he knew about the injustice.

[ezzra]

Struggles in deed, and that because Israel, unlike other counties in the region and around the world, doesn't open fire on protesters

killing many and wounding many others, had Israel did that, all those ' braves' I want to be a martyr would be dead now and the

world would be screaming blue murder Israel is a moral country with all the right to protect it's people, borders and existence...

[NeverSure]

people defending their religious site and their rightful homeland -snip-

They don't and never did have a homeland. This is in Old Jerusalem, the ancient Jewish homeland. As the OP says, it is the site of both Jewish temples mentioned in the Old Testament. It was the home of the Ark of the Covenant, AKA "The Lost Ark".

The so-called "Palestinians" are newcomers. That mosque was built after the Muslims conquered that area and and after the Romans tore down the Jewish Temple.

This is Old Jerusalem and don't expect Israel to agree to anything else.

Cheers.

[JingerBen]

Struggles in deed, and that because Israel, unlike other counties in the region and around the world, doesn't open fire on protesters

killing many and wounding many others, had Israel did that, all those ' braves' I want to be a martyr would be dead now and the

world would be screaming blue murder Israel is a moral country with all the right to protect it's people, borders and existence...

Borders? We ain't got no stinkin' borders.

[klauskunkel]

The Palestinian rock thrower

sounds like a species designation

[RockyBeerbelly]

Struggles in deed, and that because Israel, unlike other counties in the region and around the world, doesn't open fire on protesters

killing many and wounding many others, had Israel did that, all those ' braves' I want to be a martyr would be dead now and the

world would be screaming blue murder Israel is a moral country with all the right to protect it's people, borders and existence...

And the Palestinians dont have the right to protect their people, their borders and their existence....

But let me remind you of the facts ezzra. In 2014 Israeli murdered 2,314 Palestinians (of which 490 children) and injured 17,125 while on the other side 72 people died (of which 1 child). So you clearly distort the facts when you say that Israeli dont open fire on protesters. They do it even on innocent children hiding in schools and UN buildings....

[Thorgal]

people defending their religious site and their rightful homeland -snip-

They don't and never did have a homeland. This is in Old Jerusalem, the ancient Jewish homeland. As the OP says, it is the site of both Jewish temples mentioned in the Old Testament. It was the home of the Ark of the Covenant, AKA "The Lost Ark".

The so-called "Palestinians" are newcomers. That mosque was built after the Muslims conquered that area and and after the Romans tore down the Jewish Temple.

This is Old Jerusalem and don't expect Israel to agree to anything else.

Cheers.

The Old Testament mentions the destruction of the Temple in Matthew 24:2

"And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Given the complete destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Some might consider this a convenient excuse for non-verification, but archaeologists never have uncovered any ruins identified with other structures Herod built in Jerusalem, including his lavish Palace, the Greek Gymnasium or the Roman Hippodrome.

Furthermore, Jerusalem was historically more or less +300 years under independent Jewish ruling. While more than 900 years under Muslim ruling...

Edited September 22, 2015 by Thorgal

[RockyBeerbelly]

people defending their religious site and their rightful homeland -snip-

They don't and never did have a homeland. This is in Old Jerusalem, the ancient Jewish homeland. As the OP says, it is the site of both Jewish temples mentioned in the Old Testament. It was the home of the Ark of the Covenant, AKA "The Lost Ark".

The so-called "Palestinians" are newcomers. That mosque was built after the Muslims conquered that area and and after the Romans tore down the Jewish Temple.

This is Old Jerusalem and don't expect Israel to agree to anything else.

Cheers.

As an educated person I don't use any kind of scripture to explain history (especially not recent history). I leave any biblical explanation of history to the religious fanatics, jihadists, creationist and other simple and too often dangerous people.

What is never answered by you or any of the Israel friends on TV (though I have asked it multiple times) is why import Jews from Amsterdam, Warsaw, Brooklyn and Moscow have more right to a land (a land with which they have absolutely no historical relation with what-so-ever) in which for instance Ahmets' family has lived for hundreds of years and whos family has worked the land for many generations. Your only argument is because someone made up a story 2500 years ago? In addition, Israel has absolutely no legal right to the territory we are discussing here. They occupy this illegally. If you don't agree with that, then you have no respect for any kind of law and international agreements and then you should also disregard UN resolution 181.....unless you are choosing laws and agreements selectively of course

And if your argument is "but it says so in the scripture", than you should also support rape, human sacrifice, women being property (and being sold as sex slaves), systematic genocide, etc. Because all of that is written in the scripture too....

Edit:

One more question. Do you also think America should be given back to the Native Americans because I think we can all agree that that is their original homeland and not that of import Europeans. And I am sure there is an ancient wall hieroglyph that explains that a specific piece of America is part of for instance the Sioux territory, or the Cheyenne territory....

Edited September 22, 2015 by RockyBeerbelly

[Petchou]

people defending their religious site and their rightful homeland -snip-

They don't and never did have a homeland. This is in Old Jerusalem, the ancient Jewish homeland. As the OP says, it is the site of both Jewish temples mentioned in the Old Testament. It was the home of the Ark of the Covenant, AKA "The Lost Ark".

The so-called "Palestinians" are newcomers. That mosque was built after the Muslims conquered that area and and after the Romans tore down the Jewish Temple.

This is Old Jerusalem and don't expect Israel to agree to anything else.

Cheers.

You must change your Nick from neversure to toosure of crap. It's time. :-)

[Seastallion]

people defending their religious site and their rightful homeland -snip-

They don't and never did have a homeland. This is in Old Jerusalem, the ancient Jewish homeland. As the OP says, it is the site of both Jewish temples mentioned in the Old Testament. It was the home of the Ark of the Covenant, AKA "The Lost Ark".

The so-called "Palestinians" are newcomers. That mosque was built after the Muslims conquered that area and and after the Romans tore down the Jewish Temple.

This is Old Jerusalem and don't expect Israel to agree to anything else.

Cheers.

The OP also states that the area was captured in 1967...it is occupied territory. The state of Israel was created sans East Jerusalem. Any "state of Israel" outside of that area that the Jews agreed to in 1947 is stolen.

You want to talk about "newcomers"? 90% or more of Israeli Jews can trace their ancestors to Europe, but not to Israel, except for 1st and 2nd generation Israelis, obviously.

[wabothai]

No need to struggle if only Israel recognizes the Palestinian State. The ball is in your court israel.

[manarak]

why don't they throw the rocks back.

[Seastallion]

why don't they throw the rocks back.

They would prefer to play the victim card and then lash out with excessive killing force. They have to eradicate all the Arabs somehow to be able to possess their God-Promised Land.

[Steely Dan]

why don't they throw the rocks back.

They would prefer to play the victim card and then lash out with excessive killing force. They have to eradicate all the Arabs somehow to be able to possess their God-Promised Land.

They are just so inept at it Syria managed to kill 2900 Palestinians with scarcely a murmur of protest, even from the Palestinian authority.

[Steely Dan]

people defending their religious site and their rightful homeland -snip-

They don't and never did have a homeland. This is in Old Jerusalem, the ancient Jewish homeland. As the OP says, it is the site of both Jewish temples mentioned in the Old Testament. It was the home of the Ark of the Covenant, AKA "The Lost Ark".

The so-called "Palestinians" are newcomers. That mosque was built after the Muslims conquered that area and and after the Romans tore down the Jewish Temple.

This is Old Jerusalem and don't expect Israel to agree to anything else.

Cheers.

The OP also states that the area was captured in 1967...it is occupied territory. The state of Israel was created sans East Jerusalem. Any "state of Israel" outside of that area that the Jews agreed to in 1947 is stolen.

You want to talk about "newcomers"? 90% or more of Israeli Jews can trace their ancestors to Europe, but not to Israel, except for 1st and 2nd generation Israelis, obviously.

Land lost to an adversary who won it in the act of repelling aggression counts as spoils of war. The Palestinians should complain to Jordan for screwing them.

In other developments I'm glad to say Netanyahu is authorizing the use of munitions last used during the second Intifada.

http://app.debka.com/p/article/24895/Israel-security-forces-may-use-live-fire-for-Palestinian-rocks-firebombs-and-“popular-terror”

Good.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Steely Dan

[RockyBeerbelly]

people defending their religious site and their rightful homeland -snip-

They don't and never did have a homeland. This is in Old Jerusalem, the ancient Jewish homeland. As the OP says, it is the site of both Jewish temples mentioned in the Old Testament. It was the home of the Ark of the Covenant, AKA "The Lost Ark".

The so-called "Palestinians" are newcomers. That mosque was built after the Muslims conquered that area and and after the Romans tore down the Jewish Temple.

This is Old Jerusalem and don't expect Israel to agree to anything else.

Cheers.

The OP also states that the area was captured in 1967...it is occupied territory. The state of Israel was created sans East Jerusalem. Any "state of Israel" outside of that area that the Jews agreed to in 1947 is stolen.

You want to talk about "newcomers"? 90% or more of Israeli Jews can trace their ancestors to Europe, but not to Israel, except for 1st and 2nd generation Israelis, obviously.

Land lost to an adversary who won it in the act of repelling aggression counts as spoils of war. The Palestinians should complain to Jordan for screwing them.

In other developments I'm glad to say Netanyahu is authorizing the use of munitions last used during the second Intifada.

http://app.debka.com/p/article/24895/Israel-security-forces-may-use-live-fire-for-Palestinian-rocks-firebombs-and-“popular-terror”

Good.

So tell me, where does it state that the UN allows confiscating land as spoils of war? And if you sincerely agree with this, how in the hell can you defend that it is just that Palestine was given to the Jews in 1947. The Jews lost Palestine through war centuries ago!

Your remark that you are GLAD that fascist Nethanyahu has authorized to start murdering stone throwing teenagers is sickening.

[Steely Dan]

people defending their religious site and their rightful homeland -snip-

They don't and never did have a homeland. This is in Old Jerusalem, the ancient Jewish homeland. As the OP says, it is the site of both Jewish temples mentioned in the Old Testament. It was the home of the Ark of the Covenant, AKA "The Lost Ark".

The so-called "Palestinians" are newcomers. That mosque was built after the Muslims conquered that area and and after the Romans tore down the Jewish Temple.

This is Old Jerusalem and don't expect Israel to agree to anything else.

Cheers.

The OP also states that the area was captured in 1967...it is occupied territory. The state of Israel was created sans East Jerusalem. Any "state of Israel" outside of that area that the Jews agreed to in 1947 is stolen.

You want to talk about "newcomers"? 90% or more of Israeli Jews can trace their ancestors to Europe, but not to Israel, except for 1st and 2nd generation Israelis, obviously.

Land lost to an adversary who won it in the act of repelling aggression counts as spoils of war. The Palestinians should complain to Jordan for screwing them.

In other developments I'm glad to say Netanyahu is authorizing the use of munitions last used during the second Intifada.

http://app.debka.com/p/article/24895/Israel-security-forces-may-use-live-fire-for-Palestinian-rocks-firebombs-and-“popular-terror”

Good.

So tell me, where does it state that the UN allows confiscating land as spoils of war? And if you sincerely agree with this, how in the hell can you defend that it is just that Palestine was given to the Jews in 1947. The Jews lost Palestine through war centuries ago!

Your remark that you are GLAD that fascist Nethanyahu has authorized to start murdering stone throwing teenagers is sickening.

Try to keep up the Jews never lost Palestine on account of wars they themselves started, besides which international law is a modern phenomena.

Forgive me if I don't lose any sleep over the nausea of some of our esteemed members.

http://m.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Israeli-motorist-who-died-after-stone-throwing-attack-named-as-Alexander-Levlovitch-416171#article=7154ODc4NDREQjAyRkIxMEY4RUQ5QUZENEMyN0QxQjI5MzQ=

[Clutch]

The rocks they are throwing are more than likely the rocks from rubble from the 1,000's of homes bombed and destroyed by the IDF, Oh the irony. Then the IDF have the hide to complain.

[longtimeexP]

They say history always repeats itself , the Jews of Israel treat the Palestinians very unfairly , its only a matter of time before the clock turns full circle . and it will repeat there is nothing surer !!!!!!! . They have to change or face the consequences .

[NeverSure]

The Old Testament mentions the destruction of the Temple in Matthew 24:2

"And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Given the complete destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Some might consider this a convenient excuse for non-verification, but archaeologists never have uncovered any ruins identified with other structures Herod built in Jerusalem, including his lavish Palace, the Greek Gymnasium or the Roman Hippodrome.

Furthermore, Jerusalem was historically more or less +300 years under independent Jewish ruling. While more than 900 years under Muslim ruling...

There were two Jewish temples on that site. The second one was torn down by the Romans in the first century AD. The Muslims weren't even in existence at that time. They came along hundreds of years later and built the existing temple during their raiding and rape of the world.

You mention Jesus. The second temple was indeed torn clear down not 100 years after his death. Seems he was right.

Israel has that area back now and they aren't going to give it up, so get over it.

[NeverSure]

At least we're talking about the Old City in E. Jerusalem now instead of the usual and nebulous "West Bank". The MSM and the Muzzies hate to refer to it as Old Jerusalem and usually call it The West Bank.

[Johpa]

 

They don't and never did have a homeland. This is in Old Jerusalem, the ancient Jewish homeland. As the OP says, it is the site of both Jewish temples mentioned in the Old Testament. It was the home of the Ark of the Covenant, AKA "The Lost Ark".

The so-called "Palestinians" are newcomers. That mosque was built after the Muslims conquered that area and and after the Romans tore down the Jewish Temple.

It is ridiculous for either side to be quoting Biblical stories as justification for their actions or for declaring holy lands or holy sites. The cruel tides of history have impacted both sides, and history is a painful process of winners, losers, migrations, irredentist populations, and the list goes on.

So tell me, where does it state that the UN allows confiscating land as spoils of war? And if you sincerely agree with this, how in the hell can you defend that it is just that Palestine was given to the Jews in 1947. The Jews lost Palestine through war centuries ago!

History is unjust too. Nobody today, well certainly myself, would agree with the decisions made in 1947 to establish Israel. But that is what historical forces cause to happen. Nowhere else are people so vehement in their opinions that history can be reversed than within the anti-Israel community. There are certainly no calls for reversals in the world of Christendom. No calls for Anatolia to revert to the heart of the Christian world, and but muted calls for reversals in Tibet. Oh, but there were loud calls for Christians in Timor. But for the Jews the cry is for history to reverse itself. Amazing all the strident calls from the hypocrites in lands occupied by Christians at the expense of Native Peoples.

The Israelis should have never allowed the recent Jewish groups to pray on the Temple Mount and they should not allow these stupid settlements. But the fait accompli that is the State of Israel has every right to defend itself against lethal projectiles whether that be stones or missiles.

[Thorgal]

The Old Testament mentions the destruction of the Temple in Matthew 24:2

"And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Given the complete destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Some might consider this a convenient excuse for non-verification, but archaeologists never have uncovered any ruins identified with other structures Herod built in Jerusalem, including his lavish Palace, the Greek Gymnasium or the Roman Hippodrome.

Furthermore, Jerusalem was historically more or less +300 years under independent Jewish ruling. While more than 900 years under Muslim ruling...

There were two Jewish temples on that site. The second one was torn down by the Romans in the first century AD. The Muslims weren't even in existence at that time. They came along hundreds of years later and built the existing temple during their raiding and rape of the world.

You mention Jesus. The second temple was indeed torn clear down not 100 years after his death. Seems he was right.

Israel has that area back now and they aren't going to give it up, so get over it.

Quote from OP :

"The main source of tension is the situation at the hilltop compound in Jerusalem known to Jews as the Temple Mount and to Muslims as the Noble Sanctuary.

The site is home to the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound, where Muslims believe the Prophet Muhammad ascended to heaven. It is located on the spot where the biblical Jewish Temples once stood."

###

From historian Titus Flavius Josephus, from his work of 75 AD : 'War of the Jews' you can find in the 7th book in chapter nr. 1 the following non-biblical quotes :

...Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire city and temple, but should leave as many of the towers standing as were of the greatest eminency; that is, Phasaelus, and Hippicus, and Mariamne; and so much of the wall as enclosed the city on the west side. (!!!)

This wall was spared, in order to afford a camp for such as were to lie in garrison, as were the towers also spared, in order to demonstrate to posterity what kind of city it was, and how well fortified, which the Roman valor had subdued; but for all the rest of the wall, it was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those that dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it had ever been inhabited.

This was the end which Jerusalem came to by the madness of those that were for innovations; a city otherwise of great magnificence, and of mighty fame among all mankind.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus

http://www.biblestudytools.com/history/flavius-josephus/war-of-the-jews/book-7/chapter-1.html

If required I can provide links and quotes for the geological explanation that there was also never a natural river under Haram-esh-Sharif location, not so far from Fort Antonia...which you need for purification rituals of the Temple...

Edited September 22, 2015 by Thorgal

[up-country_sinclair]

the Muzzies .

In case you're unaware of the Forum Rules:

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

Back on topic, the OP makes reference to David and Goliath. How'd that work out for the seemingly unbeatable giant?

[RockyBeerbelly]

Try to keep up the Jews never lost Palestine on account of wars they themselves started, besides which international law is a modern phenomena.

Forgive me if I don't lose any sleep over the nausea of some of our esteemed members.

http://m.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Israeli-motorist-who-died-after-stone-throwing-attack-named-as-Alexander-Levlovitch-416171#article=7154ODc4NDREQjAyRkIxMEY4RUQ5QUZENEMyN0QxQjI5MzQ=

International law is indeed a modern phenomena, and has helped the world with many disputes. You carefully avoid answering however why you can accept UN resolution 181, but disregards other UN resolutions that are not favorable for the State of Israel. You just cherry-picking what is convenient, or you really believe in a story made up 2500 years ago....then who is not keeping up?

And no you are not forgiven when you're celebrating murdering innocent children by a fascist regime. You brought up the 2nd intifada, so for good measure I included the picture that started it (although it was of course child murderer Ariel Sharons' provocation which really started it all).

[thaibeachlovers]

people defending their religious site and their rightful homeland -snip-

They don't and never did have a homeland. This is in Old Jerusalem, the ancient Jewish homeland. As the OP says, it is the site of both Jewish temples mentioned in the Old Testament. It was the home of the Ark of the Covenant, AKA "The Lost Ark".

The so-called "Palestinians" are newcomers. That mosque was built after the Muslims conquered that area and and after the Romans tore down the Jewish Temple.

This is Old Jerusalem and don't expect Israel to agree to anything else.

Cheers.

As an educated person I don't use any kind of scripture to explain history (especially not recent history). I leave any biblical explanation of history to the religious fanatics, jihadists, creationist and other simple and too often dangerous people.

What is never answered by you or any of the Israel friends on TV (though I have asked it multiple times) is why import Jews from Amsterdam, Warsaw, Brooklyn and Moscow have more right to a land (a land with which they have absolutely no historical relation with what-so-ever) in which for instance Ahmets' family has lived for hundreds of years and whos family has worked the land for many generations. Your only argument is because someone made up a story 2500 years ago? In addition, Israel has absolutely no legal right to the territory we are discussing here. They occupy this illegally. If you don't agree with that, then you have no respect for any kind of law and international agreements and then you should also disregard UN resolution 181.....unless you are choosing laws and agreements selectively of course

And if your argument is "but it says so in the scripture", than you should also support rape, human sacrifice, women being property (and being sold as sex slaves), systematic genocide, etc. Because all of that is written in the scripture too....

Edit:

One more question. Do you also think America should be given back to the Native Americans because I think we can all agree that that is their original homeland and not that of import Europeans. And I am sure there is an ancient wall hieroglyph that explains that a specific piece of America is part of for instance the Sioux territory, or the Cheyenne territory....

Agree 100%. I have to chuckle though, because one poster that justifies Jews "right" to Israel because it is in an old book disregards the same old book's requirement to kill homosexuals. I think that is classified as selective interpretation of old fables.

Edited September 23, 2015 by thaibeachlovers

[Steely Dan]

Try to keep up the Jews never lost Palestine on account of wars they themselves started, besides which international law is a modern phenomena.

Forgive me if I don't lose any sleep over the nausea of some of our esteemed members.

http://m.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Israeli-motorist-who-died-after-stone-throwing-attack-named-as-Alexander-Levlovitch-416171#article=7154ODc4NDREQjAyRkIxMEY4RUQ5QUZENEMyN0QxQjI5MzQ=

International law is indeed a modern phenomena, and has helped the world with many disputes. You carefully avoid answering however why you can accept UN resolution 181, but disregards other UN resolutions that are not favorable for the State of Israel. You just cherry-picking what is convenient, or you really believe in a story made up 2500 years ago....then who is not keeping up?

And no you are not forgiven when you're celebrating murdering innocent children by a fascist regime. You brought up the 2nd intifada, so for good measure I included the picture that started it (although it was of course child murderer Ariel Sharons' provocation which really started it all).

Your linking to the discredited Mohammad Al Dura blood libel is indicative of just how biased and ignorant some of our esteemed members are. How fitting it is that you point to a hoax as the reason for the second intifada, in a way you are right fabrications, lies, incitement and the complicity of the western liberal press are a toxic miasma from which the Palestinians have never emerged. And to think some people persist in hiding their antisemitism behind faux humanitarian concern for the Palestinians. It is a truly stomach turning spectacle. Edited September 23, 2015 by Steely Dan

[ABCer]

OMG! Not again!

On the other hand did anybody expect anything else?

One day those stupid Libs and Lefts overriden Israelis will realise what is clear to any by-standing observer - that there will never be an end to 'Palestinian' stupidity.

When this happens they will drive them all out of the country of Israel. Yes, in its present shape, size and borders. And this will be the end of "intifada".

Nothing will change in the World when this will happen. UN resolutions will be the same. Neighboring countries will remain the same. They will 'absorb and digest' their new brothers into non-existence.

The only losers will be the 'Palestinians' because:

I do not believe Egyptians, Lebanese, Syrians or Jordanians will

- tolerate their brothers throwing rocks, shooting or launching rockets

- love their brothers as Israelis do and give them better living standards

- give their brothers as much leeway as Israelis do.

The funny part will be to observe UN not saying a word about Egypt, Lebanon, Syria or Jordan 'absorbing and digesting' their brethren.

The even more funny part will be to observe the same UN oozing the same resolutions against the same Israel protecting the same non-existing 'Palestinians' as if nothing had changed.

The absolutely hilarious part will be to observe over 30,000 UN administrators of the 'Palestinian' Department of UN presiding over an empty trough.

Edited September 23, 2015 by ABCer

[RockyBeerbelly]

Try to keep up the Jews never lost Palestine on account of wars they themselves started, besides which international law is a modern phenomena.

Forgive me if I don't lose any sleep over the nausea of some of our esteemed members.

http://m.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Israeli-motorist-who-died-after-stone-throwing-attack-named-as-Alexander-Levlovitch-416171#article=7154ODc4NDREQjAyRkIxMEY4RUQ5QUZENEMyN0QxQjI5MzQ=

International law is indeed a modern phenomena, and has helped the world with many disputes. You carefully avoid answering however why you can accept UN resolution 181, but disregards other UN resolutions that are not favorable for the State of Israel. You just cherry-picking what is convenient, or you really believe in a story made up 2500 years ago....then who is not keeping up?

And no you are not forgiven when you're celebrating murdering innocent children by a fascist regime. You brought up the 2nd intifada, so for good measure I included the picture that started it (although it was of course child murderer Ariel Sharons' provocation which really started it all).

Your linking to the discredited Mohammad Al Dura blood libel is indicative of just how biased and ignorant some of our esteemed members are. How fitting it is that you point to a hoax as the reason for the second intifada, in a way you are right fabrications, lies, incitement and the complicity of the western liberal press are a toxic miasma from which the Palestinians have never emerged. And to think some people persist in hiding their antisemitism behind faux humanitarian concern for the Palestinians. It is a truly stomach turning spectacle.

Of course accepting the stories of the Israeli government press office as the truth is something I could have expected. Fact remains that a child died and that in my view is always a bad thing. If that make me antisemitic in your eyes, fine, in my eyes that makes me a humanist....

What I think is really stomach turning is the fact that there are people who are encouraging the murdering of Palestinian people and especially children. These are often the same people who strongly condemned the Muslims dancing in the streets after 9-11, and that to me is hypocritical. Call me left again, but I condemn the dangerous idiots from both sides. In Palestine 490 children were slaughtered last year by murderous , fascist policies, and the most astonishing thing is that there are people who actually say that it is a lie that these 490 children were slaughtered by the IDF, and again they brush is off as antisemitism, and leftist propaganda BS. Ironically, the ignorance of the idiots who think this way doesn't in my eyes differ much for the ignorance of the idiots who deny the holocaust ever happened.

But back to my question, which you are still dodging to answer (and which I sincerely would like to know) "Why can Israel accept UN resolution 181, but disregards any other UN resolutions if they are not favorable to the state of Israel? Sincere countries accept when they are reprimanded by the UN, and do something to change/improve the situation, but Israel never does. Why should the world accept that?