BMA to improve student maths & English points

[Lite Beer]

BMA to improve student maths & English points

BANGKOK, 26 September 2015 (NNT) – The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) has organized a seminar to educate teachers from small schools across the capital city on how to improve their students’ math and English skills.

According to deputy BMA governor Pusadee Tamthai, the BMA has launched the meeting in response to the recent statistics which showed that students in small schools under its care gained lower marks than the average points in national maths and English tests. Many of them gained around 30 out of 100 points.

Mrs. Pusadee explained educators participating in the seminar would have the opportunity to discuss problems and obstacles faced by their schools and students. The BMA will also send academic experts to the participating schools to share with the teachers the techniques that help students grasp English and maths more easily.

The deputy BMA governor expects that the project will enable students to perform better in the next Ordinary National Educational Test (O-Net) which will take place in February 2016.

-- NNT 2015-09-26

[trogers]

"Many of them gained around 30 out of 100 points"

The correct word to use is 'scored', and not 'gained'.

In any developed country, 30 out of 100 means 'Failed or F'. Nothing has been gained.

[CMguy]

"Many of them gained around 30 out of 100 points"

The correct word to use is 'scored', and not 'gained'.

In any developed country, 30 out of 100 means 'Failed or F'. Nothing has been gained.

Also keep in mind multiple choice/guess test may have been used for the questions, as they are easy to grade. A score of 30 out of 100 points can basically be obtained by getting your name on a test sheet and selecting any random letter/number on the answer sheet....I never considered multiple choice a proper test.

[kimamey]

"Many of them gained around 30 out of 100 points"

The correct word to use is 'scored', and not 'gained'.

In any developed country, 30 out of 100 means 'Failed or F'. Nothing has been gained.

Also keep in mind multiple choice/guess test may have been used for the questions, as they are easy to grade. A score of 30 out of 100 points can basically be obtained by getting your name on a test sheet and selecting any random letter/number on the answer sheet....I never considered multiple choice a proper test.

I'm no expert on maths but surely that would depend on the number of multiple choices you're given. If each question has 2 possible answers to choose from then on average you should get about 50% correct even if you don't know the answers. If there are 5 then you should get 20% (I think that's right).

There's also the question of what the possible answers are since most people wouldn't be attempting them without some knowledge. As an example if you asked for the capital of Australia with the choice being: Canberra, New York or London I think the success rate would be greater than if the choice was between Canberra, Sydney or Melbourne.

[CMguy]

"Many of them gained around 30 out of 100 points"

The correct word to use is 'scored', and not 'gained'.

In any developed country, 30 out of 100 means 'Failed or F'. Nothing has been gained.

Also keep in mind multiple choice/guess test may have been used for the questions, as they are easy to grade. A score of 30 out of 100 points can basically be obtained by getting your name on a test sheet and selecting any random letter/number on the answer sheet....I never considered multiple choice a proper test.

I'm no expert on maths but surely that would depend on the number of multiple choices you're given. If each question has 2 possible answers to choose from then on average you should get about 50% correct even if you don't know the answers. If there are 5 then you should get 20% (I think that's right).

There's also the question of what the possible answers are since most people wouldn't be attempting them without some knowledge. As an example if you asked for the capital of Australia with the choice being: Canberra, New York or London I think the success rate would be greater than if the choice was between Canberra, Sydney or Melbourne.

You are correct Kimamey, the actual score a student would get from guessing at 100% of the answers on a multiple choice test would average 20% if 5 possible answers, 25% if 4 possible answers, 33.3% if 3 possible answers etc.

From my personal observations of my childrens exams in Thai schools, most test were predominately if not completely multiple choice, typically with 3-5 options for answers with a few true or false thrown in.

Also if the deductive reasoning skills you alluded to in your post were present and used the possible choices would be narrowed, further improving odds of a correct answer and thus improving the total score.

Any student that had even a slight grasp of the subject material and/or decent deductive reasoning skills would IMHO have scored higher than 30 %.

In summary it's pretty easy to just guess and obtain a "Failing" score of 30/100.

[MaxLee]

to improve student maths & English points

Just English POINTS, okay just tell them to type FULLSTOP(S) -> (....)<- That's an English POINT, isn't it????

[kimamey]

"Many of them gained around 30 out of 100 points"

The correct word to use is 'scored', and not 'gained'.

In any developed country, 30 out of 100 means 'Failed or F'. Nothing has been gained.

Also keep in mind multiple choice/guess test may have been used for the questions, as they are easy to grade. A score of 30 out of 100 points can basically be obtained by getting your name on a test sheet and selecting any random letter/number on the answer sheet....I never considered multiple choice a proper test.

I'm no expert on maths but surely that would depend on the number of multiple choices you're given. If each question has 2 possible answers to choose from then on average you should get about 50% correct even if you don't know the answers. If there are 5 then you should get 20% (I think that's right).

There's also the question of what the possible answers are since most people wouldn't be attempting them without some knowledge. As an example if you asked for the capital of Australia with the choice being: Canberra, New York or London I think the success rate would be greater than if the choice was between Canberra, Sydney or Melbourne.

You are correct Kimamey, the actual score a student would get from guessing at 100% of the answers on a multiple choice test would average 20% if 5 possible answers, 25% if 4 possible answers, 33.3% if 3 possible answers etc.

From my personal observations of my childrens exams in Thai schools, most test were predominately if not completely multiple choice, typically with 3-5 options for answers with a few true or false thrown in.

Also if the deductive reasoning skills you alluded to in your post were present and used the possible choices would be narrowed, further improving odds of a correct answer and thus improving the total score.

Any student that had even a slight grasp of the subject material and/or decent deductive reasoning skills would IMHO have scored higher than 30 %.

In summary it's pretty easy to just guess and obtain a "Failing" score of 30/100.

I think multiple choice questions have their place alongside open questions but they need to be well constructed. In any event 30% seems very bad.

[Reigntax]

So how do they get around this math question.

Somchai works for the government purchasing department and is instructed to buy 5 widgets each costing 2,000 Baht for use by the local community.

What is the total cost? 10,000 Baht?. Wrong. What is the total cost per widget?

Somchai negotiates a higher price of 4,000 Baht for each widget because these widgets are made by his associate. He claims payment of 20,000 Baht in order to pay, keeps 5,000 Baht as his commission, pays his boss 5,000 Baht, picks up 5 widgets from his associate and pays him only 10,000 Baht.

Somchai sells 2 widgets to his friends and delivers 3 to the community to use. The community finds out that the 3 widgets are faulty and unable to be used so Somchai returns them back to his associate and requests a refund on the 3 of 5,000 Baht which he holds in his own "trust".

The community request the government buy 5 widgets and the answer is.. we brought you 5 last year, here is the receipt, somone must have stolen them and you should take better care of what we provide to you.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Reigntax

[Reigntax]

The answer therefore is zero to both as

There were never any widgets, there was no 20,000 Baht, why do you need widgets when you havent needed them for the last 50 years, learn how to work without widgets, we have no budget to purchase widgets, its all a misunderstanding that occurred under the previous government, we will investigate your complaint and we have assigned our top official, Somchai, to undertake this task.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Reigntax

[scorecard]

"...Improve English points..."

Is this spoken English or English grammar?

My guess is that it means English grammar, because Thailand still has it's head firmly planted in the sand in regard to the development of conversation skills.

[Seastallion]

Also keep in mind multiple choice/guess test may have been used for the questions, as they are easy to grade. A score of 30 out of 100 points can basically be obtained by getting your name on a test sheet and selecting any random letter/number on the answer sheet....I never considered multiple choice a proper test.

I'm no expert on maths but surely that would depend on the number of multiple choices you're given. If each question has 2 possible answers to choose from then on average you should get about 50% correct even if you don't know the answers. If there are 5 then you should get 20% (I think that's right).

There's also the question of what the possible answers are since most people wouldn't be attempting them without some knowledge. As an example if you asked for the capital of Australia with the choice being: Canberra, New York or London I think the success rate would be greater than if the choice was between Canberra, Sydney or Melbourne.

You are correct Kimamey, the actual score a student would get from guessing at 100% of the answers on a multiple choice test would average 20% if 5 possible answers, 25% if 4 possible answers, 33.3% if 3 possible answers etc.

From my personal observations of my childrens exams in Thai schools, most test were predominately if not completely multiple choice, typically with 3-5 options for answers with a few true or false thrown in.

Also if the deductive reasoning skills you alluded to in your post were present and used the possible choices would be narrowed, further improving odds of a correct answer and thus improving the total score.

Any student that had even a slight grasp of the subject material and/or decent deductive reasoning skills would IMHO have scored higher than 30 %.

In summary it's pretty easy to just guess and obtain a "Failing" score of 30/100.

I think multiple choice questions have their place alongside open questions but they need to be well constructed. In any event 30% seems very bad.

Agree.

Unless, as at the school my wife teaches, where the owner, the director, and the Academic Head, all insist that multi-choice choices (a, b, c, d, e) must be arranged with "a" being the shortest word or sentence, through to "e" being the longest...because "it looks nice" on the exam paper.

It's just more pointless work for the teachers when compiling a test, and so they tend to make the right choice short, because thinking up distractors that are longer is easier...thus the tests have a great tendency towards "a" or "b" being correct. You also see a tendency for the distractors being so utterly ridiculous that anyone actually reading the choices can not get the question wrong. No matter how much my wife points out the fallacy of having the questions "look nice", they refuse to change the staff rule.

[Seastallion]

To the OP.

A great start would be to instill discipline and a good attitude. Teachers were once revered in Thailand, but no longer.

On the one hand, many do not deserve reverence, but on the other hand, without respect and discipline, kids are not going to learn.

[scorecard]

To the OP.

A great start would be to instill discipline and a good attitude. Teachers were once revered in Thailand, but no longer.

On the one hand, many do not deserve reverence, but on the other hand, without respect and discipline, kids are not going to learn.

No hesitation to agree re "...On the one hand, many do not deserve reverence..."

Some of the experiences of my son at Thai schools and at his university and the antics of a few teachers at the schools my Thai granddaughters have attended would have gained 'instant dismissal, never allowed to teach again' in my home country.

[doremifasol]

The deputy BMA governor expects that the project will enable students to perform better in the next Ordinary National Educational Test (O-Net) which will take place in February 2016.

I have never heard that a project alone can actually enable students to perform better...........

Implementing it should do the trick.

[trogers]

The deputy BMA governor expects that the project will enable students to perform better in the next Ordinary National Educational Test (O-Net) which will take place in February 2016.

I have never heard that a project alone can actually enable students to perform better...........

Implementing it should do the trick.

If the BMA deputy director knows his maths, a cheap and fast way to improved scores is to grade those test papers using square root x 10.

[qwertyuiop]

"Many of them gained around 30 out of 100 points"

The correct word to use is 'scored', and not 'gained'.

In any developed country, 30 out of 100 means 'Failed or F'. Nothing has been gained.

Also keep in mind multiple choice/guess test may have been used for the questions, as they are easy to grade. A score of 30 out of 100 points can basically be obtained by getting your name on a test sheet and selecting any random letter/number on the answer sheet....I never considered multiple choice a proper test.

O-Net tests are all multiple choice I believe or at least the ones I have seen are.

This is certainly true for English (and other subjects).

Each question has a choice of 5 answers.

I agree multiple choice tests don't achieve much.

Take a look at O-Net scores and you will see the average Thai student 'failing' in almost all subjects.

[kimamey]

Also keep in mind multiple choice/guess test may have been used for the questions, as they are easy to grade. A score of 30 out of 100 points can basically be obtained by getting your name on a test sheet and selecting any random letter/number on the answer sheet....I never considered multiple choice a proper test.

I'm no expert on maths but surely that would depend on the number of multiple choices you're given. If each question has 2 possible answers to choose from then on average you should get about 50% correct even if you don't know the answers. If there are 5 then you should get 20% (I think that's right).

There's also the question of what the possible answers are since most people wouldn't be attempting them without some knowledge. As an example if you asked for the capital of Australia with the choice being: Canberra, New York or London I think the success rate would be greater than if the choice was between Canberra, Sydney or Melbourne.

You are correct Kimamey, the actual score a student would get from guessing at 100% of the answers on a multiple choice test would average 20% if 5 possible answers, 25% if 4 possible answers, 33.3% if 3 possible answers etc.

From my personal observations of my childrens exams in Thai schools, most test were predominately if not completely multiple choice, typically with 3-5 options for answers with a few true or false thrown in.

Also if the deductive reasoning skills you alluded to in your post were present and used the possible choices would be narrowed, further improving odds of a correct answer and thus improving the total score.

Any student that had even a slight grasp of the subject material and/or decent deductive reasoning skills would IMHO have scored higher than 30 %.

In summary it's pretty easy to just guess and obtain a "Failing" score of 30/100.

I think multiple choice questions have their place alongside open questions but they need to be well constructed. In any event 30% seems very bad.

Agree.

Unless, as at the school my wife teaches, where the owner, the director, and the Academic Head, all insist that multi-choice choices (a, b, c, d, e) must be arranged with "a" being the shortest word or sentence, through to "e" being the longest...because "it looks nice" on the exam paper.

It's just more pointless work for the teachers when compiling a test, and so they tend to make the right choice short, because thinking up distractors that are longer is easier...thus the tests have a great tendency towards "a" or "b" being correct. You also see a tendency for the distractors being so utterly ridiculous that anyone actually reading the choices can not get the question wrong. No matter how much my wife points out the fallacy of having the questions "look nice", they refuse to change the staff rule.

That certainly looks like a perfect example of badly constructed questions. It's not what I was thinking of but then I don't think I could make up something like that if I tried. Brilliant and staggeringly stupid at the same time.

[Strangebrew]

A lady friend of mines sons aced the English test but only after spending a day with me making him write the words to learn in English 5 times each. But grammar he still lacks but so do I in speaking Thai correctly. But his teacher was surprised he scored higher than the rest of the students getting 40 out of 40 correct next highest was 21 out of 40.But he was confused on the words Where, ware, and wear

[retarius]

I'm guessing that 'improvements' in Math and English scores will come about by dumbing down the tests.

[DoctorG]

A lady friend of mines sons aced the English test but only after spending a day with me making him write the words to learn in English 5 times each. But grammar he still lacks but so do I in speaking Thai correctly. But his teacher was surprised he scored higher than the rest of the students getting 40 out of 40 correct next highest was 21 out of 40.But he was confused on the words Where, ware, and wear

That's OK as many NES posters on here are confused about the words "there, their, and they're."

[DoctorG]

I have done multiple-choice tests where a point/mark is deducted for an incorrect answer. That really takes guessing right out of the equation.

[whatproblem]

Get rid of the useless teaches and use native English speaking teachers to teach English ,it's not difficult,and if the headmaster learned wrong don't make the children learn wrong as well

[Nuddy]

On the same subject I was at my wife's family home, socialising, and the niece who had won honours for speaking english at her school, asked us what "Shim" were.

I thought about it but without any further info I couldn't get it. Well we were socialising of course at the time.

But the next day I thought about it. Yes, Shrimp. Prawns or maybe even goong.

When I told the family about it they were all embarrassed. My relations since then have never been the same. Little known to me I did in the "Face"

Regards

[Thian]

I never believe a Thai with numbers, 80% of the time they give the wrong answer.

And nope they also can't spea inlit, even not on tv which is a real shame, kids think that thai moviestars on tv can spea inlit but they can't.

[FangFerang]

The whole thing gives me a headache. It's going to change when the Thais want it to change. Reform my ass.

[soalbundy]

more corruption money to the teachers ought to do it, 1000 Baht for ten points.

[maidee]

hahahahaha

teachers from small villages can speak english ?

if they teach to students and cannot even speak / read / write english themselves....

we all see the results in daily life