New Changes For The Extension Of Stay Based On Business

[Sunbelt Asia]

New changes for the Extension of stay based on Business for Oct 1st 2006.

You must now have a work permit to apply (Before you could just show the receipt from the Labor dept to apply for the extension of stay based on business)

The Thai business must have registered paid up capital of no less than 2 million Baht.

The business must have income to pay for all foreign employee salaries, including fringe benefits in the next accounting year.

The net equity on the balance sheet, must be not less than one million Baht.

No more one Thai employee ratio for a Consultant or Agent with the extension of stay based on business. This now requires 4 Thai employees per foreigner.The only categories that are allowed this ratio of one Thai employee for one foreigner are a Representative Office of an International Trade Office, Regional Office and Branch office of an International Company.

http://www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

More:

New salary requirements for the extension of stay based on Business starting Oct 1st, 2006

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=85886

[Foggy Bottom]

Hmm - conflicting news here regarding the "benefit" of the ammendments ....

The "no receipt need book" rule will facilitate Labour Dept blackmail regarding getting your workpermit complete before the first 90 day entry expires - they were known to be difficult before if they didn't like your face, now they could become impossible. Many Labour offices refuse to issue the workpermit before you have the visa - the old runaround system could resurface here if you don't have access to the one-stop centre.

It will however, only affect first time applicants and those who change employment. First timers unfamiliar with Thailand certainly don't need this .... I know I didn't when I started.

Paid up capital reverts to 2 million from the 3 million imposed by Mr T, but is that 2 million paid by the (and per) foreigner (as per Mr T's methodology) or 2 million total? This could be a good news item.

New rule, business must have next years salaries and fringes sitting in the bank at the time of application (does this include share dividends expected to be paid to foreign shareholding employees?) - could be tricky for start-ups going into their second or third years of operation, and could cause quite a few cancelled business registrations amongst the SME's, not to mention cashflow strangulation at a critical stage of a businesses life.

New Rule - Net equity not less than one million baht - so basically they're saying that businesses employing foreigners have to keep one million in the bank per foreigner employed? Either that or buy a lot of property for cash and never borrow against it? Business equipment depreciates fast and knocks huge chunks off net equity faster than TRT can skim from infrastructure projects.

There's going to be a lot of foreign correspondents forced to bail out of Thailand because of that change to the "one Thai for one Foreigner" rule - the CDRM may have just lost a lot of the goodwill it was granted from the foreign press based here. There is no neccesity for most foreign correspondents to employ anyone other than a translator.

Also a helluvva lot of import export buyers, based here permanently, will have to upsticks and head for pastures new (they simply do not need more staff than a single secretary/translator, usually their wives) - this one could damage the overall economy more than some of TRT's anti-foreigner rulings. If all the foreign exporters selling to their native countries bale out, there are a lot of their customers that will refuse to deal directly with Thais because Thais are foreigners to those buyers. Xenophobia is also alive and well outside of Thailand. I know this from many of my own customers telling me they only buy from Thailand because they can deal with one of their own (me).

I'm going to wait and see what's in the temporary Constitution due out Saturday - a lot of the above may be deemable as unconstitutional and have to be revised, although Sunday is 1st October so the timing has been a bit clever, or a bit dumb, depending on the intent of the thinking behind the changes.

Gaz

[Harry2]

No more one Thai employee ratio for a Consultant or Agent with the extension of stay based on business. This now requires 4 Thai employees per foreigner.The only categories that are allowed this ratio of one Thai employee for one foreigner are a Representative Office of an International Trade Office, Regional Office and Branch office of an International Company.

Thanks as ever for the up to date information.

What is an 'International Trade Office' - is this some kind of specific business category - or can you designate the Representative Office of any offshore company as one & the 1:1 staff ratio applies?

[Foggy Bottom]

No more one Thai employee ratio for a Consultant or Agent with the extension of stay based on business. This now requires 4 Thai employees per foreigner.The only categories that are allowed this ratio of one Thai employee for one foreigner are a Representative Office of an International Trade Office, Regional Office and Branch office of an International Company.

Thanks as ever for the up to date information.

What is an 'International Trade Office' - is this some kind of specific business category - or can you designate the Representative Office of any offshore company as one & the 1:1 staff ratio applies?

Hi - the DTI has a download called the Guide to doing Business in Thailand (it's in Adobe pdf format so you need to install Adobe Acrobat Reader) - it explains all the different categories in full detail especially these categories of International Trade Office, representative office etc.

see www.dti.go.th

regards

Gaz

[Phil Conners]

Who makes up all these absurd rules?

[lingyai]

New changes for the Extension of stay based on Business for Oct 1st 2006.

The Thai business must have registered paid up capital of no less than 2 million Baht.

The business must have income to pay for all foreign employee salaries, including fringe benefits in the next accounting year.

The net equity on the balance sheet, must be not less than one million Baht.

More:

New salary requirements for the extension of stay based on Business starting Oct 1st, 2006

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=85886

New rule, business must have next years salaries and fringes sitting in the bank at the time of application (does this include share dividends expected to be paid to foreign shareholding employees?) - could be tricky for start-ups going into their second or third years of operation, and could cause quite a few cancelled business registrations amongst the SME's, not to mention cashflow strangulation at a critical stage of a businesses life.

Exactly. Why hurt startup businesses a source of inovation? This is one dumb rule that does nothing for Thailand. Many companies are not profitable or at least not booming in the first years, how can they be expected to show income for whole of the next year? Improve the country by having less entrepreneurial endeavors...what a plan....

[bkkandrew]

New changes for the Extension of stay based on Business for Oct 1st 2006.

You must now have a work permit to apply (Before you could just show the receipt from the Labor dept to apply for the extension of stay based on business)

The Thai business must have registered paid up capital of no less than 2 million Baht.

The business must have income to pay for all foreign employee salaries, including fringe benefits in the next accounting year.

The net equity on the balance sheet, must be not less than one million Baht.

No more one Thai employee ratio for a Consultant or Agent with the extension of stay based on business. This now requires 4 Thai employees per foreigner.The only categories that are allowed this ratio of one Thai employee for one foreigner are a Representative Office of an International Trade Office, Regional Office and Branch office of an International Company.

http://www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

More:

New salary requirements for the extension of stay based on Business starting Oct 1st, 2006

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=85886

I am sorry to be thick here... But...

I have communicated with Thai Consulate in UK and they have advised that, as I attend business meetings in Thailand, I require "B" Visa, whereas before I entered in a Visa Exemption. They have said that I need to do this to correct my status, which I am happy to do. I do not need a WP for meetings, so what is this all about??

[ajarnmark]

Who makes up all these absurd rules?

Definitely NOT Thaksin

Should be find someone else to rant?

[Bananaman]

So how does all this affect an application supported by a letter from a company inviting you to Thailand to "seek business opportunities"? If you're coming to Thailand with the hope of doing business with another company or establishing your own business with another company's assistance then you have no reason to apply for a work permit.

[John K]

This is not only confusing it is a bit annoying. It certainly sound like they only want very strong businesses in Thailand. It almost looks like because the 90/180 is causing such a rush on other visa types the Thais are reacting. It sounds like a shortcut to run up the cost of living, making a bigger middle class and make it more difficult for corrupt people to get into and stay public office . I wonder how the businesses based in rural Thailand will fair with this. In short this will be a very interesting double edge sword to watch.

Edited September 28, 2006 by John K

[isaanbrit]

I run a business based in rural Thailand and all this seems like a real headaches.

My business is almost a charity in that we provide services for poor, rural schools outside Bangkok, services that are readily available to big schools with large budgets in Bangkok etc.

I am not here to become rich, simply to earn an honest living and most importantly - help. The people who make these rules just seem insistent on making it more and more difficult for me.

It amazes how a pimp who runs a brothel in Bangkok (soi cowboy etc) can get a WP just cause they have loads of cash (from selling women's bodies) and obviously the right amount of Thai staff on their books, while people trying to help teach English like me for relatively nothing are being screwed over.

Great rules guys :-)

[wilko]

New changes for the Extension of stay based on Business for Oct 1st 2006.

You must now have a work permit to apply (Before you could just show the receipt from the Labor dept to apply for the extension of stay based on business)

The Thai business must have registered paid up capital of no less than 2 million Baht.

The business must have income to pay for all foreign employee salaries, including fringe benefits in the next accounting year.

The net equity on the balance sheet, must be not less than one million Baht.

No more one Thai employee ratio for a Consultant or Agent with the extension of stay based on business. This now requires 4 Thai employees per foreigner.The only categories that are allowed this ratio of one Thai employee for one foreigner are a Representative Office of an International Trade Office, Regional Office and Branch office of an International Company.

http://www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

More:

New salary requirements for the extension of stay based on Business starting Oct 1st, 2006

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=85886

I am sorry to be thick here... But...

I have communicated with Thai Consulate in UK and they have advised that, as I attend business meetings in Thailand, I require "B" Visa, whereas before I entered in a Visa Exemption. They have said that I need to do this to correct my status, which I am happy to do. I do not need a WP for meetings, so what is this all about??

I got a business visa from Thai consul in Oz as I was doing multiple entries and wanted to check out the import / export scene....this was regarded as a valid reason to issue me with non immigrant "B". I had no intention of working in Thailand so I was not applying for a work permit, just travelling on business. It proved very convenient.

[bazmlb]

New changes for the Extension of stay based on Business for Oct 1st 2006.

You must now have a work permit to apply (Before you could just show the receipt from the Labor dept to apply for the extension of stay based on business)

The Thai business must have registered paid up capital of no less than 2 million Baht.

The business must have income to pay for all foreign employee salaries, including fringe benefits in the next accounting year.

The net equity on the balance sheet, must be not less than one million Baht.

No more one Thai employee ratio for a Consultant or Agent with the extension of stay based on business. This now requires 4 Thai employees per foreigner.The only categories that are allowed this ratio of one Thai employee for one foreigner are a Representative Office of an International Trade Office, Regional Office and Branch office of an International Company.

http://www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

More:

New salary requirements for the extension of stay based on Business starting Oct 1st, 2006

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=85886

Is this for a 51% Thai owned company or is it for a 100% Thai owned company as well Sunbelt?

[FRK]

New changes for the Extension of stay based on Business for Oct 1st 2006.

You must now have a work permit to apply (Before you could just show the receipt from the Labor dept to apply for the extension of stay based on business)

This is unclear -- does this apply to non-immigrant B visas for people who do not need a work permit? Does it apply to extensions of such a visa, or only to applying for a new business visa?

[thrill-seeker]

Hi.

My 90-day non b visa expires Nov. 8 and I already got my work permit (which also expires on the same date). Am I already okay for extension as long as I do it way before it expires?

Thanks.

[wolfmanjack]

The business must have income to pay for all foreign employee salaries, including fringe benefits in the next accounting year.

Does this mean that you have to have that much money in the bank or only show that you have enough money coming in over the period of a year to pay the salary. I have around 6 million baht a year coming in but rarely have 500,000 baht in the bank.

[Smithson]

New changes for the Extension of stay based on Business for Oct 1st 2006.

The Thai business must have registered paid up capital of no less than 2 million Baht.

The business must have income to pay for all foreign employee salaries, including fringe benefits in the next accounting year.

The net equity on the balance sheet, must be not less than one million Baht.

http://www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Can somebody pls explain exactly what this means in relation to how much money a company need to have in the bank if they employee one foreigner at 50,000 a month.

[petecooper]

So if a person has a non-B visa wihout a work permit, now an extension is not available. Is the alternative then to just get another non-B visa when the first expires?

[thaitanic]

If you do 90-day visa runs on a multi-entry non-imm B visa then nothing changes, right?

[Pakboong]

Hmm - conflicting news here regarding the "benefit" of the ammendments ....

The "no receipt need book" rule will facilitate Labour Dept blackmail regarding getting your workpermit complete before the first 90 day entry expires - they were known to be difficult before if they didn't like your face, now they could become impossible. Many Labour offices refuse to issue the workpermit before you have the visa - the old runaround system could resurface here if you don't have access to the one-stop centre.

It will however, only affect first time applicants and those who change employment. First timers unfamiliar with Thailand certainly don't need this .... I know I didn't when I started.

Paid up capital reverts to 2 million from the 3 million imposed by Mr T, but is that 2 million paid by the (and per) foreigner (as per Mr T's methodology) or 2 million total? This could be a good news item.

New rule, business must have next years salaries and fringes sitting in the bank at the time of application (does this include share dividends expected to be paid to foreign shareholding employees?) - could be tricky for start-ups going into their second or third years of operation, and could cause quite a few cancelled business registrations amongst the SME's, not to mention cashflow strangulation at a critical stage of a businesses life.

I have never felt TRT was behind what you are calling Anti-Foreigner activity. The timing suggests that TRT knew it had to save itself by enacting strategy and and force several

New Rule - Net equity not less than one million baht - so basically they're saying that businesses employing foreigners have to keep one million in the bank per foreigner employed? Either that or buy a lot of property for cash and never borrow against it? Business equipment depreciates fast and knocks huge chunks off net equity faster than TRT can skim from infrastructure projects.

There's going to be a lot of foreign correspondents forced to bail out of Thailand because of that change to the "one Thai for one Foreigner" rule - the CDRM may have just lost a lot of the goodwill it was granted from the foreign press based here. There is no neccesity for most foreign correspondents to employ anyone other than a translator.

Also a helluvva lot of import export buyers, based here permanently, will have to upsticks and head for pastures new (they simply do not need more staff than a single secretary/translator, usually their wives) - this one could damage the overall economy more than some of TRT's anti-foreigner rulings. If all the foreign exporters selling to their native countries bale out, there are a lot of their customers that will refuse to deal directly with Thais because Thais are foreigners to those buyers. Xenophobia is also alive and well outside of Thailand. I know this from many of my own customers telling me they only buy from Thailand because they can deal with one of their own (me).

I'm going to wait and see what's in the temporary Constitution due out Saturday - a lot of the above may be deemable as unconstitutional and have to be revised, although Sunday is 1st October so the timing has been a bit clever, or a bit dumb, depending on the intent of the thinking behind the changes.

Gaz

I have felt all along that the anti-foreigner stuff did not come from TRT. They knew things were getting ugly and they needed a strategy to try and save themselves and their jobs. A few days into the CRDor whatever, we are seeing more restirictions on Foreigners trying to live and invest in Thailand. I don't expect this recent activity to be redirected stronglty suggesting that I am correct in this view.

[~G~]

If you do 90-day visa runs on a multi-entry non-imm B visa then nothing changes, right?

Not yet.

[southbot]

Hi Forum Folks.

I have been running a web hosting and web design business in Thailand for the last 10 years.

We have always used the "consultant' model for our business, one thai per one farang staff.

We do not have real capital, only registered capital of 2,000,000 Baht.

Does this really mean I will have to now hire 8 thai staff to cover me and my other farang here in the office?

Does this really mean I have to have REAL capital of 2,000,000 Baht as opposed to registered capital?

Does this really mean I will have to show profit in bank for future year to cover these items?

If this is so then it is bye bye to the LOS for me now. If this is real - my company is dead in the water.

Do you all really think they will actually enforce this crap?

Anybody wanna try Vietnam on for size?

Siberia? Zimbabwe? Any takers?

[Smithson]

Hi Forum Folks.

Does this really mean I have to have REAL capital of 2,000,000 Baht as opposed to registered capital?

Does this really mean I will have to show profit in bank for future year to cover these items?

Do you all really think they will actually enforce this crap?

Siberia? Zimbabwe? Any takers?

Good questions, in the past 18 months we've gone from employing 2 to employing 8 Thais, we only require one work permit.

95% of what we make is exported, our business is continually growing, so all our profit goes back into the business. So if I'm required to have heaps of cash just sitting doing nothing, that will prevent me from investing in the country. Doesn't seem to make sense,

[animatic]

These xeonophobic rules will be around,

until the powers that be see a clear loss in revenue,

then they will get roled back...

Looking at the rules, that may be a clear loss in a short time.

But it will likely be a long time to make up for

the lost entrpeneurs and workers they have run off.

Maybe they want to clear out farang bar owners etc.

But the effect will be the small businesses

implementing NEW technologieswill simply vanish.

But the BIG companies, like TESCO, will stay, and be in conflict

with mom and pop stores. 1 step forward 3 steps back.

I hope that investing in construction through a company

is considered in the whole equation.

Not just the bank balance.

As noted above, the rules were just not thought through

before implimentation.

The left hand signing laws,

knows not of the right hand

counting revenues and their sources...

Either Thailand wants on the global bandwagon

to profit and increased income for each Thai,

or it wants to close the doors and not interact with the world.

The latter is no way to exit the 3rd world....

These conflicting desires from different quarters of Thai society,

cause a true legal schizophrenia,

and the well being of LOS pays for this.

Edited September 29, 2006 by animatic

[george]

Please note that the new requirements is not for the work permit application itself, it's regarding the one-year-extension, which is a completely different animal. We haven't heard that the labour department has changed the rules.

So you could possible still keep your work permit, and instead of doing a one-year extension at Immigration, just go for a multiple NON-B instead, and do border runs every 90 days.

[wolfmanjack]

Please note that the new requirements is not for the work permit application itself, it's regarding the one-year-extension, which is a completely different animal. We haven't heard that the labour department has changed the rules.

So you could possible still keep your work permit, and instead of doing a one-year extension at Immigration, just go for a multiple NON-B instead, and do border runs every 90 days.

I just went to get my one year multipe entry B visa. They asked for my company income records which I did not hve with me. They gave me the visa but said next year I would have to show all company income to show the company made enough money to support me and all of the workers I showed.

[petecooper]

I just went to get my one year multipe entry B visa. They asked for my company income records which I did not hve with me. They gave me the visa but said next year I would have to show all company income to show the company made enough money to support me and all of the workers I showed.

Wolmanjack, what country were you in at the time?

[bazmlb]

So if you got married changed non imm b to a non imm o, the whole situation would be easier?

only need to earn 40k a month instead of 50k or just have 400k in the bank? , if the the new 200/20k rule comes in even easier?

[wolfmanjack]

I just went to get my one year multipe entry B visa. They asked for my company income records which I did not hve with me. They gave me the visa but said next year I would have to show all company income to show the company made enough money to support me and all of the workers I showed.

Wolmanjack, what country were you in at the time?

I was in Penang Malaysia

[Sunbelt Asia]

Gaz,

The "no receipt need book" rule will facilitate Labour Dept blackmail regarding getting your workpermit complete before the first 90 day entry expires - they were known to be difficult before if they didn't like your face, now they could become impossible. Many Labour offices refuse to issue the workpermit before you have the visa - the old runaround system could resurface here if you don't have access to the one-stop centre.

You still need a non immigrant visa to apply for the work permit at the Labor Dept. The only difference is you cannot submit for the long term visa and the work permit on the same day at the Labor Dept and Immigration. You now must wait till you get the work permit then go to the Immigration Dept to do the extension of stay. It is no problem at the One Stop Center; you can still do both the same day.

It will however, only affect first time applicants and those who change employment. First timers unfamiliar with Thailand certainly don't need this .... I know I didn't when I started.

The biggest problem is for the person changing jobs. As you only have a 14 day window... you had 7 days to turn in your work permit from your first job and 7 days to leave the country or you could get a second job and a new work permit in that window of time. If you did get a new job, you could apply for the new work permit on the second job in the 7 day window and then do the extension of stay based on business for the second job, without having to leave Thailand.

This seems to have changed, with the only choice to apply for the second job before quitting the first job. However the Labor Dept has stated they frown on this, if you quit the first job anytime during the 6 month period of adding the second job to your work permit, if on the first job and you already had an extension of stay based on business.

The reason why they frown is as they consider it "fraud" as you had a work permit with your second company which was still valid with a long term visa on the first company. (By leaving the first company, this visa did not cancel as you still had a work permit from the second company even though the second company may not have met the criteria of having 4 Thai employees for the extension of stay).

The Labor Dept felt this was pulling a fast one but as the rules stand now; you would have to add the second job to your valid work permit, and then quit your first job. Even though you have a valid extension of stay, you should apply for the extension of stay for the second company as well (so you meet the criteria of the second company to keep the Labor Dept folks happy)

Paid up capital reverts to 2 million from the 3 million imposed by Mr T, but is that 2 million paid by the (and per) foreigner (as per Mr T's methodology) or 2 million total? This could be a good news item.

The 2 million Baht rule is for Immigration and is 2 million total for the company not per foreigner. How could this come into play?

Example: You have are married to a Thai national and choose to apply for the extension of stay based on business rather than support of a Thai national ( marriage) You have a work permit as The Labor Dept only requires 1 million Baht register paid up capital but Immigration requires a 2 million Baht registered paid up capital. If you apply with the extension of stay based on support of a Thai national (having a salary of 40,000 Baht per month or 400,000 Baht in the bank then this does not apply. If you choose to do the extension of stay based on business, as you don’t want to have your wife go down to Immigration every year, your employer would need to increase the registered paid up capital another million Baht.

The Labor Dept has different rules which are 2 million Baht per work permit or 3 million if you are a foreign company or 1 million Baht if married to a Thai. Immigration is only 2 million Baht for the whole company regardless of the number of foreigners.

Example: You could have two married foreigners to Thais that would meet the criteria for the work permit ( 1 million Baht each for a total of 2 million Baht ) and extension of stay based on business ( 2 million Baht company).

New rule, business must have next years salaries and fringes sitting in the bank at the time of application (does this include share dividends expected to be paid to foreign shareholding employees?) - could be tricky for start-ups going into their second or third years of operation, and could cause quite a few cancelled business registrations amongst the SME's, not to mention cashflow strangulation at a critical stage of a businesses life.

As someone pointed out. The rule may have been drafted by someone with limited accounting knowledge as the literal translation is "income" but of course this is impossible with a start up to show income to cover the wages or fringes of foreigners. To have enough income based on the trading history or operating capital makes more sense.

New Rule - Net equity not less than one million baht - so basically they're saying that businesses employing foreigners have to keep one million in the bank per foreigner employed? Either that or buy a lot of property for cash and never borrow against it? Business equipment depreciates fast and knocks huge chunks off net equity faster than TRT can skim from infrastructure projects.

It is only net equity of not less than one million Baht in total for the company not per foreigner.

There's going to be a lot of foreign correspondents forced to bail out of Thailand because of that change to the "one Thai for one Foreigner" rule - the CDRM may have just lost a lot of the goodwill it was granted from the foreign press based here. There is no neccesity for most foreign correspondents to employ anyone other than a translator.

This was drafted before the CDRM was in place.

Also a helluvva lot of import export buyers, based here permanently, will have to upsticks and head for pastures new (they simply do not need more staff than a single secretary/translator, usually their wives) - this one could damage the overall economy more than some of TRT's anti-foreigner rulings. If all the foreign exporters selling to their native countries bale out, there are a lot of their customers that will refuse to deal directly with Thais because Thais are foreigners to those buyers. Xenophobia is also alive and well outside of Thailand. I know this from many of my own customers telling me they only buy from Thailand because they can deal with one of their own (me).

Very valid points and you make a strong case.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com