"not to lump everyone together who has a weight problem"

[h90]

If it was that easy to lose weight permanently then how come most diets fail?

The theory is easy for sure, eat less. But the practice is just like JT says. There seems to a host of factors that prevent lifestyle adjustment. As Tolley points out the damn stuff is everywhere, I doubt many people would be able to quit alcohol if they worked in a pub. Temptation everywhere.

At a basic level without looking at the individual psyche we can say people feel happy when full and somewhat less so when not. Already a powerful emotion in play.

According to a program I listened to on BBC radio, a great many of the obese people being treated also suffer from depression or anxiety. And a staggering 25% had been abused as children.

Without basic self confidence it's difficult to do much of anything. Criticising will just lead to more problems. Moralising is a very tricky area.

I never heard of a failing diet. Usually the people fail to follow the diet. That is something different.

I see two problems: First many are trained to see McDonalds (and similar) as normal food. It is not it is junk.....but learned from children it is very hard to change the programming.

Second MSG, sugar and others that let us eat more than we normaly would. At university (long time ago) McDonald was praised for his new approaches. Testing new products means normaly people try it and tell how they liked it. McD from the beginning focused on how to create it that people would order more, without focus on the taste. Which needs complete different tests. And it worked.

[mommysboy]

If it was that easy to lose weight permanently then how come most diets fail?

The theory is easy for sure, eat less. But the practice is just like JT says. There seems to a host of factors that prevent lifestyle adjustment. As Tolley points out the damn stuff is everywhere, I doubt many people would be able to quit alcohol if they worked in a pub. Temptation everywhere.

At a basic level without looking at the individual psyche we can say people feel happy when full and somewhat less so when not. Already a powerful emotion in play.

According to a program I listened to on BBC radio, a great many of the obese people being treated also suffer from depression or anxiety. And a staggering 25% had been abused as children.

Without basic self confidence it's difficult to do much of anything. Criticising will just lead to more problems. Moralising is a very tricky area.

I never heard of a failing diet. Usually the people fail to follow the diet. That is something different.

I see two problems: First many are trained to see McDonalds (and similar) as normal food. It is not it is junk.....but learned from children it is very hard to change the programming.

Second MSG, sugar and others that let us eat more than we normaly would. At university (long time ago) McDonald was praised for his new approaches. Testing new products means normaly people try it and tell how they liked it. McD from the beginning focused on how to create it that people would order more, without focus on the taste. Which needs complete different tests. And it worked.

Ok, most people on a diet fail. Fragment the argument any way you want to find a scapegoat, but that is the way it is. I for one do not believe these people are weak willed.

[robblok]

Fact is that people who are overweight often don't want to change. If they keep eating the way they did before they always stay fat. They still want to eat at KFC a lot and are not willing to make a lifestyle change. That is why people fail because diets don't work lifestyle changes do. There is too much food around you just have to learn to say no. Most don't want that because of peer pressure and such.

I was not going to comment on JT anymore but he took a cheap shot at me saying i shame people, while the only time I did that was with family and close friends to give them a bit of motivation. Guess what it worked my brother lost weight and so did my father. I would never do that with strangers. JT is an prime example of a weak willed guy because he blocked me and still keeps taking cheap shots at me while I cannot reply him because he blocked me.

JT is also the NR one restaurant reviewer, how can you be serious about loosing weight when your hobby is eating and reviewing restaurants. He is constantly talking about food and food rewards. He is just not able to have fun without food. That is why it goes so slow with him. I do applaud him for having progress at all. But he is looking at everything as an excuse to be able to continue his hobby. EATING.

I still say that people who cook their meals themselves and learn healthy eating habits wont fail. It will be hard especially if you have kids or are in a toxic food environment (meaning to much food around you). Also genetics play a role however EVERYONE can improve on him or herself if they are willing to make lifestyle changes.

My dad who is now with me was commenting on his friends who are so fat but too lazy to even go 1km with a bike instead of a car and keep on drinking beer and eating loads and at the same time complaining about their weight and heart problems. Those people fail... because they are not willing to change. Sure not everyone will be super skinny but as overweight as some are is really not necessary,

I am having a holliday and read a lot about genetics and diet and such written by a great author that backs things up with scientific research. Alan Aragon one of the best there is.

He states that some people have real bad genes and others have not, but both can reach normal weight its harder for those with bad genes. But certainly not impossible but they need to change what they eat. The ones with super genes can eat all the bad stuff and still stay relatively lean. Your genes do set limits on how lean one can be and I have accepted that I will not be fitness model lean (at least not year round) because my genes and body fight that too much. But the ones with bad genes are far less as the ones that are all obese, so you can't blame it only on that its bad genes, combined with a bad food environment and lack of willpower.

If I ate all I wanted Id be fat too and believe me I love eating too and feel hungry too. Its hard to moderate ones food if your hungry but its not impossible just less fun. But the current generation wants everything easy.

[namatjira]

Ultimately if you are fat

That is up to you

What is wrong is how we view every person that is fat as a lesser human.

We are what we are .......

[robblok]

Ultimately if you are fat

That is up to you

What is wrong is how we view every person that is fat as a lesser human.

We are what we are .......

People who are fat are not lesser persons, however they should not complain about their weight and not do a thing.

Also in airplanes if they are really fat and limiting other persons comfort by taking up part of their chair should buy 2 tickets.

Obese persons can be how they are as long as others don't pay the cost for them. There should be a discount for healthy people on health insurance and such, its a thing that increases cost. Same as other risk behavior like smoking.

[h90]

If it was that easy to lose weight permanently then how come most diets fail?

The theory is easy for sure, eat less. But the practice is just like JT says. There seems to a host of factors that prevent lifestyle adjustment. As Tolley points out the damn stuff is everywhere, I doubt many people would be able to quit alcohol if they worked in a pub. Temptation everywhere.

At a basic level without looking at the individual psyche we can say people feel happy when full and somewhat less so when not. Already a powerful emotion in play.

According to a program I listened to on BBC radio, a great many of the obese people being treated also suffer from depression or anxiety. And a staggering 25% had been abused as children.

Without basic self confidence it's difficult to do much of anything. Criticising will just lead to more problems. Moralising is a very tricky area.

I never heard of a failing diet. Usually the people fail to follow the diet. That is something different.

I see two problems: First many are trained to see McDonalds (and similar) as normal food. It is not it is junk.....but learned from children it is very hard to change the programming.

Second MSG, sugar and others that let us eat more than we normaly would. At university (long time ago) McDonald was praised for his new approaches. Testing new products means normaly people try it and tell how they liked it. McD from the beginning focused on how to create it that people would order more, without focus on the taste. Which needs complete different tests. And it worked.

Ok, most people on a diet fail. Fragment the argument any way you want to find a scapegoat, but that is the way it is. I for one do not believe these people are weak willed.

Scapegoat? No. I don't care too much how other people destroy themself. Just think it is sad when I see children or teenager.

Everyone is responsible for the own body.....if someone eat himself to death and blame, genetic, producer or society on it, it is still him/her who gets the consequences.

[singa-traz]

The more I learn about obesity, the more I accept the disease model accepted by the American medical establishment. I know full well the cynical interpretation that it was based on financial compensation, but those who deny a medical (physical and mental), social, and environmental link to obesity are in my view simply ill informed.

The simple minded / moralistic old school explanations, we've heard them here hundreds of times, simply aren't good enough to both explain the problem and to offer meaningful assistance.

Must agree with JT on the mental aspect.

The tone of the last sentence, in some way, says it all. Over-eating is only the top of the iceberg.

[expatbrit]

The more I learn about obesity, the more I accept the disease model accepted by the American medical establishment. I know full well the cynical interpretation that it was based on financial compensation, but those who deny a medical (physical and mental), social, and environmental link to obesity are in my view simply ill informed.

The simple minded / moralistic old school explanations, we've heard them here hundreds of times, simply aren't good enough to both explain the problem and to offer meaningful assistance.

If , as you would clearly wish, Obesity is "disease", why has this "disease" only emerged since the end of the 2nd World War ?

Could it have anything to do with gluttony , junk food and a refusal to exercise.

Is "Obesity" the disease prevalent in countries like Somalia ?

[Jingthing]

The more I learn about obesity, the more I accept the disease model accepted by the American medical establishment. I know full well the cynical interpretation that it was based on financial compensation, but those who deny a medical (physical and mental), social, and environmental link to obesity are in my view simply ill informed.

The simple minded / moralistic old school explanations, we've heard them here hundreds of times, simply aren't good enough to both explain the problem and to offer meaningful assistance.

If , as you would clearly wish, Obesity is "disease", why has this "disease" only emerged since the end of the 2nd World War ?

Could it have anything to do with gluttony , junk food and a refusal to exercise.

Is "Obesity" the disease prevalent in countries like Somalia ?

I don't wish for any diseases.

Not interested in responding to baiting posts.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Jingthing

[slipperylobster]

last place I would go for any kind of compassion dealing with love, money and fatness...would be

[Tolley]

If it was that easy to lose weight permanently then how come most diets fail?

The theory is easy for sure, eat less. But the practice is just like JT says. There seems to a host of factors that prevent lifestyle adjustment. As Tolley points out the damn stuff is everywhere, I doubt many people would be able to quit alcohol if they worked in a pub. Temptation everywhere.

At a basic level without looking at the individual psyche we can say people feel happy when full and somewhat less so when not. Already a powerful emotion in play.

According to a program I listened to on BBC radio, a great many of the obese people being treated also suffer from depression or anxiety. And a staggering 25% had been abused as children.

Without basic self confidence it's difficult to do much of anything. Criticising will just lead to more problems. Moralising is a very tricky area.

I never heard of a failing diet. Usually the people fail to follow the diet. That is something different.

I see two problems: First many are trained to see McDonalds (and similar) as normal food. It is not it is junk.....but learned from children it is very hard to change the programming.

Second MSG, sugar and others that let us eat more than we normaly would. At university (long time ago) McDonald was praised for his new approaches. Testing new products means normaly people try it and tell how they liked it. McD from the beginning focused on how to create it that people would order more, without focus on the taste. Which needs complete different tests. And it worked.

Ok, most people on a diet fail. Fragment the argument any way you want to find a scapegoat, but that is the way it is. I for one do not believe these people are weak willed.

It seems like some people are happy that statistics show that diets fail so that sort of gives them an excuse and a reason not to lose weight.

This is faulty logic because of course diets fail. That is because diets are unsustainable and are short term mechanisms to lose weight.

You need to change your lifestyle if you want to succeed in being slimmer and healthier. That requires permanent changes that many people are not prepared to make.

[robblok]

The more I learn about obesity, the more I accept the disease model accepted by the American medical establishment. I know full well the cynical interpretation that it was based on financial compensation, but those who deny a medical (physical and mental), social, and environmental link to obesity are in my view simply ill informed.

The simple minded / moralistic old school explanations, we've heard them here hundreds of times, simply aren't good enough to both explain the problem and to offer meaningful assistance.

If , as you would clearly wish, Obesity is "disease", why has this "disease" only emerged since the end of the 2nd World War ?

Could it have anything to do with gluttony , junk food and a refusal to exercise.

Is "Obesity" the disease prevalent in countries like Somalia ?

I don't wish for any diseases.

Not interested in responding to baiting posts.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Congratulations like me and many others that don't agree with JT you made it to his ignore list.

He really does not like it if you tell him there is a big part own responsibility he will ignore you.

[Jingthing]

last place I would go for any kind of compassion dealing with love, money and fatness...would be

True. This forum attracts a lot of mean spirited, abusive posts, even from people who should really know better.

But you know, on the regular health forum, it is mostly supportive.

To me, it's obvious why. So many people ignorantly think weight problems are mostly a morality "will power" issue when the reality is that is only one factor of many factors in this very common health problem.

It's not that will power isn't part of this. It's just that it isn't the only part.

So many people want everything to be black and white, all or nothing, but real life isn't like that. At all.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Jingthing

[singa-traz]

last place I would go for any kind of compassion dealing with love, money and fatness...would be

True. This forum attracts a lot of mean spirited, abusive posts, even from people who should really know better.

But you know, on the regular health forum, it is mostly supportive.

Classic posture of the victim ... Anything will do to avoid recognise the personal accountability of obese people.

"Personal accountability" ... does that constitute an abusive post?

[h90]

The more I learn about obesity, the more I accept the disease model accepted by the American medical establishment. I know full well the cynical interpretation that it was based on financial compensation, but those who deny a medical (physical and mental), social, and environmental link to obesity are in my view simply ill informed.

The simple minded / moralistic old school explanations, we've heard them here hundreds of times, simply aren't good enough to both explain the problem and to offer meaningful assistance.

If , as you would clearly wish, Obesity is "disease", why has this "disease" only emerged since the end of the 2nd World War ?

Could it have anything to do with gluttony , junk food and a refusal to exercise.

Is "Obesity" the disease prevalent in countries like Somalia ?

I don't wish for any diseases.

Not interested in responding to baiting posts.

Welcome to my ignore list.

I and rob are there as well

[h90]

The more I learn about obesity, the more I accept the disease model accepted by the American medical establishment. I know full well the cynical interpretation that it was based on financial compensation, but those who deny a medical (physical and mental), social, and environmental link to obesity are in my view simply ill informed.

The simple minded / moralistic old school explanations, we've heard them here hundreds of times, simply aren't good enough to both explain the problem and to offer meaningful assistance.

If , as you would clearly wish, Obesity is "disease", why has this "disease" only emerged since the end of the 2nd World War ?

Could it have anything to do with gluttony , junk food and a refusal to exercise.

Is "Obesity" the disease prevalent in countries like Somalia ?

Sure thing is the junk food. But also some culture we lost. When my parents were young there was 3 times per day eating time. Exact time. If the food wasn't ready the wife got problems. If the husband wasn't at home he got troubles.

Between was NO eating. Eating the cookies while watching TV didn't exist. Sweet things you only ate after dinner. Big food only on Sunday.

Even restaurants offered food from 11AM-1PM and 5PM-9PM only.

Every Friday you ate less, 1 month per year was fasten time.

I still recall that the grandpa allowed a cookie against the policy of grandmum.

As woman you got an ear full from your mother if you got fat. As man the pressure was not so much, but you were still seen as someone who can't control himself.

That culture is gone + additional the food which is specially designed to trick us into overeating.

[chiang mai]

The more I learn about obesity, the more I accept the disease model accepted by the American medical establishment. I know full well the cynical interpretation that it was based on financial compensation, but those who deny a medical (physical and mental), social, and environmental link to obesity are in my view simply ill informed.

The simple minded / moralistic old school explanations, we've heard them here hundreds of times, simply aren't good enough to both explain the problem and to offer meaningful assistance.

If , as you would clearly wish, Obesity is "disease", why has this "disease" only emerged since the end of the 2nd World War ?

Could it have anything to do with gluttony , junk food and a refusal to exercise.

Is "Obesity" the disease prevalent in countries like Somalia ?

I don't wish for any diseases.

Not interested in responding to baiting posts.

Welcome to my ignore list.

I and rob are there as well

Me too!

I was thinking, maybe you could make a list of the people known to be on that ignore list and start a thread whereby replies came from those all those people?

[up-country_sinclair]

Of course obesity is not a disease. It's the direct result of gluttonous and slothful behavior.

I believe that I posted this before, but it's worth repeating:

Put these "disease sufferers" in a cage for six months and only allot them 1800 calories of healthy food daily for every two hours of moderate exercise that they complete. I guarantee they would lose a significant amount of weight at the end of those six months.

And I'd bet that most of them would balloon back up almost immediately aftetwards because they're weak willed.

Edited November 29, 2015 by up-country_sinclair

[robblok]

Problem why so many fail is once they lost weight they go back to their old foods.

You can never do that its what made people fat in the first place.

Many are unwilling to make those changes. Once the weight is lost more can be eaten but never like before.

[h90]

If , as you would clearly wish, Obesity is "disease", why has this "disease" only emerged since the end of the 2nd World War ?

Could it have anything to do with gluttony , junk food and a refusal to exercise.

Is "Obesity" the disease prevalent in countries like Somalia ?

I don't wish for any diseases.

Not interested in responding to baiting posts.

Welcome to my ignore list.

I and rob are there as well

Me too!

I was thinking, maybe you could make a list of the people known to be on that ignore list and start a thread whereby replies came from those all those people?

I think he see mostly his own postings....everyone else is already ignored

[h90]

Problem why so many fail is once they lost weight they go back to their old foods.

You can never do that its what made people fat in the first place.

Many are unwilling to make those changes. Once the weight is lost more can be eaten but never like before.

They learned as child what is normal food (McDonalds, cookies and coke). That is programmed into them as "normal". It is very hard to change that.

Grandpa give you the burger, icecreame and coke......Now it bad and grandpa is a fool....that is hard.....But option 1: do it, option 2 be fat and sick......

hard, unfair, infinity battle....

[robblok]

Problem why so many fail is once they lost weight they go back to their old foods.

You can never do that its what made people fat in the first place.

Many are unwilling to make those changes. Once the weight is lost more can be eaten but never like before.

They learned as child what is normal food (McDonalds, cookies and coke). That is programmed into them as "normal". It is very hard to change that.

Grandpa give you the burger, icecreame and coke......Now it bad and grandpa is a fool....that is hard.....But option 1: do it, option 2 be fat and sick......

hard, unfair, infinity battle....

Correct the new norm is way of for many people. They feel its unfair they cant eat like that anymore.

[mommysboy]

Fact is that people who are overweight often don't want to change. If they keep eating the way they did before they always stay fat. They still want to eat at KFC a lot and are not willing to make a lifestyle change. That is why people fail because diets don't work lifestyle changes do. There is too much food around you just have to learn to say no. Most don't want that because of peer pressure and such.

I was not going to comment on JT anymore but he took a cheap shot at me saying i shame people, while the only time I did that was with family and close friends to give them a bit of motivation. Guess what it worked my brother lost weight and so did my father. I would never do that with strangers. JT is an prime example of a weak willed guy because he blocked me and still keeps taking cheap shots at me while I cannot reply him because he blocked me.

JT is also the NR one restaurant reviewer, how can you be serious about loosing weight when your hobby is eating and reviewing restaurants. He is constantly talking about food and food rewards. He is just not able to have fun without food. That is why it goes so slow with him. I do applaud him for having progress at all. But he is looking at everything as an excuse to be able to continue his hobby. EATING.

I still say that people who cook their meals themselves and learn healthy eating habits wont fail. It will be hard especially if you have kids or are in a toxic food environment (meaning to much food around you). Also genetics play a role however EVERYONE can improve on him or herself if they are willing to make lifestyle changes.

My dad who is now with me was commenting on his friends who are so fat but too lazy to even go 1km with a bike instead of a car and keep on drinking beer and eating loads and at the same time complaining about their weight and heart problems. Those people fail... because they are not willing to change. Sure not everyone will be super skinny but as overweight as some are is really not necessary,

I am having a holliday and read a lot about genetics and diet and such written by a great author that backs things up with scientific research. Alan Aragon one of the best there is.

He states that some people have real bad genes and others have not, but both can reach normal weight its harder for those with bad genes. But certainly not impossible but they need to change what they eat. The ones with super genes can eat all the bad stuff and still stay relatively lean. Your genes do set limits on how lean one can be and I have accepted that I will not be fitness model lean (at least not year round) because my genes and body fight that too much. But the ones with bad genes are far less as the ones that are all obese, so you can't blame it only on that its bad genes, combined with a bad food environment and lack of willpower.

If I ate all I wanted Id be fat too and believe me I love eating too and feel hungry too. Its hard to moderate ones food if your hungry but its not impossible just less fun. But the current generation wants everything easy.

"Fact is that people who are overweight often don't want to change".

This is the basic assumption behind most posts but I would contend that it is more a problem of not being able to change, or deep down being very fearful of change. Certainly for obese people this is likely the problem. This misunderstanding leads to unmerited criticism and a hard punishing moralistic attitude because we assume they are being greedy, lazy, or stubborn, and time and time again you here the phrase 'lack of will power'. Then we blame. But many of my friends and family are overweight to varying degrees but I couldn't call them weak willed at all, on the contrary. It doesn't stop me feeling very angry at times though I must admit, it seems like they are behaving rather like hogs. And I have to remind myself that their internal reality is quite different, in fact they are defending themselves. Because to varying degrees they no longer have access to real enriching pleasures, it is likely they are tenaciously holding on to the one last thing in life that still affords unconditional pleasure.

I do strongly agree that post world war 2 generations have fallen in to the trap that life is rather easier than it actually is, and one of the most corrosive beliefs is feeling hard done by when in fact we are merely being presented with fundamental realities of life. This is something I am currently having to work on. It is very difficult to feel the necessary emotions and thoughts. Sometimes I feel absolute misery.

Edited November 29, 2015 by mommysboy

[robblok]

You seem to think, I judge obese people while in fact I don't. They made their choice and so I have I. Fact is im now on a holiday food is everywhere and I would love to eat icecream everyday and take fruit shakes instead of soda (normal soda water with a bubble) or water all the time. It would give me great pleasure or take a 3rd plate of great food. I don't because its less important to me as staying lean. I love that stuff just as much as the next guy and am often hungry. But its a choice I made.

You are admitting yourself that they choose the food because it gives them satisfaction and pleasure. That just means they can help themselves if they want to but have chosen not too. I don't see your opinion being any different then mine. I only judge those who are overweight and are complaining about it all the time but don't take action. Not those who made the choice, everyone can do what they want be it drinking 6 beers at night and having a beer gut. I might not think it look good on people but there are people who think muscles look bad too. So that is a personal opinion,

Yes i agree 100% with your last post they feel hard done that they can't eat as much as they want and stay lean JT is a prime example of this. Everyone can loose weight and get to a healthy weight or close to it. Not everyone will have the same end results some will be fitness models and others will stay a bit overweight even if they have put the same effort in it. That is called genetics but none of those have to be real obese.

I will never argue with JT that its harder for some as others, that is just genetics I have read about this countless times however its not the difference between really obese and a normal weight its the difference between a few kg's extra and normal weight if they just eat healthy and restrict it a bit.

However when I talk with my dad and hear about some of his friends who can almost not walk (so fat) and they keep drinking eating and have to be taken away to a hospital when they feel a little bit bad (calling 112 or 911 US version). I do feel a bit moralistic, they are costing all of us loads of money and are unwilling to change. The doctor tells them to loose weight for their health.. but they just wont. Once things effect others be it financially (as in they have to pay more tax or insurance for the bad habits of others) I do feel its wrong and they should bear the cost of their own choice. Just like how smokers have to pay more insurance premiums.

Otherwise people can do what they want I don't really care or judge. On this site I have often said this to members who admit they don't want to change. I tell them good on you its your choice (and it is). But people who moan about their weight bring up countless reasons why they can't do it don't have my respect.

Because you can't see from the outside who is who I wont condemn any strangers or pass judgement. I have teased my dad and my brother when they were real overweight and they both have changed. I have said that once and JT calls it all out fat shaming what I have never done. I feel you can do it with people you know (if you know they need a push not if you push them in depression).

But the fact remains that many choose the comforts of food above restricting it a bit so in my mind its a choice.

[singa-traz]

Fact is that people who are overweight often don't want to change. If they keep eating the way they did before they always stay fat. They still want to eat at KFC a lot and are not willing to make a lifestyle change. That is why people fail because diets don't work lifestyle changes do. There is too much food around you just have to learn to say no. Most don't want that because of peer pressure and such.

I was not going to comment on JT anymore but he took a cheap shot at me saying i shame people, while the only time I did that was with family and close friends to give them a bit of motivation. Guess what it worked my brother lost weight and so did my father. I would never do that with strangers. JT is an prime example of a weak willed guy because he blocked me and still keeps taking cheap shots at me while I cannot reply him because he blocked me.

JT is also the NR one restaurant reviewer, how can you be serious about loosing weight when your hobby is eating and reviewing restaurants. He is constantly talking about food and food rewards. He is just not able to have fun without food. That is why it goes so slow with him. I do applaud him for having progress at all. But he is looking at everything as an excuse to be able to continue his hobby. EATING.

I still say that people who cook their meals themselves and learn healthy eating habits wont fail. It will be hard especially if you have kids or are in a toxic food environment (meaning to much food around you). Also genetics play a role however EVERYONE can improve on him or herself if they are willing to make lifestyle changes.

My dad who is now with me was commenting on his friends who are so fat but too lazy to even go 1km with a bike instead of a car and keep on drinking beer and eating loads and at the same time complaining about their weight and heart problems. Those people fail... because they are not willing to change. Sure not everyone will be super skinny but as overweight as some are is really not necessary,

I am having a holliday and read a lot about genetics and diet and such written by a great author that backs things up with scientific research. Alan Aragon one of the best there is.

He states that some people have real bad genes and others have not, but both can reach normal weight its harder for those with bad genes. But certainly not impossible but they need to change what they eat. The ones with super genes can eat all the bad stuff and still stay relatively lean. Your genes do set limits on how lean one can be and I have accepted that I will not be fitness model lean (at least not year round) because my genes and body fight that too much. But the ones with bad genes are far less as the ones that are all obese, so you can't blame it only on that its bad genes, combined with a bad food environment and lack of willpower.

If I ate all I wanted Id be fat too and believe me I love eating too and feel hungry too. Its hard to moderate ones food if your hungry but its not impossible just less fun. But the current generation wants everything easy.

"Fact is that people who are overweight often don't want to change".

This is the basic assumption behind most posts but I would contend that it is more a problem of not being able to change, or deep down being very fearful of change. Certainly for obese people this is likely the problem. This misunderstanding leads to unmerited criticism and a hard punishing moralistic attitude because we assume they are being greedy, lazy, or stubborn, and time and time again you here the phrase 'lack of will power'. Then we blame. But many of my friends and family are overweight to varying degrees but I couldn't call them weak willed at all, on the contrary. It doesn't stop me feeling very angry at times though I must admit, it seems like they are behaving rather like hogs. And I have to remind myself that their internal reality is quite different, in fact they are defending themselves. Because to varying degrees they no longer have access to real enriching pleasures, it is likely they are tenaciously holding on to the one last thing in life that still affords unconditional pleasure.

I do strongly agree that post world war 2 generations have fallen in to the trap that life is rather easier than it actually is, and one of the most corrosive beliefs is feeling hard done by when in fact we are merely being presented with fundamental realities of life. This is something I am currently having to work on. It is very difficult to feel the necessary emotions and thoughts. Sometimes I feel absolute misery.

Interesting views.

Yeah, life is hard, and harder for some, but, when did "giving up" became an acceptable option?

"people are not being able to change" ... or more likely, chose not to confront the obstacles that prevent them from changing.

Everyday is an opportunity to become somebody different, and you make the choices, nobody else.

• What will I have for lunch?
• Will I cook or buy outside?
• What do I plan to buy at the market?
• Will I take a bus/taxi or ride a bicycle?
• Will I have 1 or 10 drinks?
• ...

Everyday, you can learn to make better decisions. You own those decisions.

[h90]

Fact is that people who are overweight often don't want to change. If they keep eating the way they did before they always stay fat. They still want to eat at KFC a lot and are not willing to make a lifestyle change. That is why people fail because diets don't work lifestyle changes do. There is too much food around you just have to learn to say no. Most don't want that because of peer pressure and such.

I was not going to comment on JT anymore but he took a cheap shot at me saying i shame people, while the only time I did that was with family and close friends to give them a bit of motivation. Guess what it worked my brother lost weight and so did my father. I would never do that with strangers. JT is an prime example of a weak willed guy because he blocked me and still keeps taking cheap shots at me while I cannot reply him because he blocked me.

JT is also the NR one restaurant reviewer, how can you be serious about loosing weight when your hobby is eating and reviewing restaurants. He is constantly talking about food and food rewards. He is just not able to have fun without food. That is why it goes so slow with him. I do applaud him for having progress at all. But he is looking at everything as an excuse to be able to continue his hobby. EATING.

I still say that people who cook their meals themselves and learn healthy eating habits wont fail. It will be hard especially if you have kids or are in a toxic food environment (meaning to much food around you). Also genetics play a role however EVERYONE can improve on him or herself if they are willing to make lifestyle changes.

My dad who is now with me was commenting on his friends who are so fat but too lazy to even go 1km with a bike instead of a car and keep on drinking beer and eating loads and at the same time complaining about their weight and heart problems. Those people fail... because they are not willing to change. Sure not everyone will be super skinny but as overweight as some are is really not necessary,

I am having a holliday and read a lot about genetics and diet and such written by a great author that backs things up with scientific research. Alan Aragon one of the best there is.

He states that some people have real bad genes and others have not, but both can reach normal weight its harder for those with bad genes. But certainly not impossible but they need to change what they eat. The ones with super genes can eat all the bad stuff and still stay relatively lean. Your genes do set limits on how lean one can be and I have accepted that I will not be fitness model lean (at least not year round) because my genes and body fight that too much. But the ones with bad genes are far less as the ones that are all obese, so you can't blame it only on that its bad genes, combined with a bad food environment and lack of willpower.

If I ate all I wanted Id be fat too and believe me I love eating too and feel hungry too. Its hard to moderate ones food if your hungry but its not impossible just less fun. But the current generation wants everything easy.

"Fact is that people who are overweight often don't want to change".

This is the basic assumption behind most posts but I would contend that it is more a problem of not being able to change, or deep down being very fearful of change. Certainly for obese people this is likely the problem. This misunderstanding leads to unmerited criticism and a hard punishing moralistic attitude because we assume they are being greedy, lazy, or stubborn, and time and time again you here the phrase 'lack of will power'. Then we blame. But many of my friends and family are overweight to varying degrees but I couldn't call them weak willed at all, on the contrary. It doesn't stop me feeling very angry at times though I must admit, it seems like they are behaving rather like hogs. And I have to remind myself that their internal reality is quite different, in fact they are defending themselves. Because to varying degrees they no longer have access to real enriching pleasures, it is likely they are tenaciously holding on to the one last thing in life that still affords unconditional pleasure.

I do strongly agree that post world war 2 generations have fallen in to the trap that life is rather easier than it actually is, and one of the most corrosive beliefs is feeling hard done by when in fact we are merely being presented with fundamental realities of life. This is something I am currently having to work on. It is very difficult to feel the necessary emotions and thoughts. Sometimes I feel absolute misery.

Good points, but it boils down to: If I eat too much I get health problems and my body will hurt. Most fat people know that. If you continue to eat too much knowing you get serious health problems is a lack of willpower (either to eat less or to accept the reality). Eating less doesn't mean you can never have the pleasure of eating anymore. You can still eat burger, cake, pizza, cookies, beer....just not everything every day.

I plan already to make a real opulent Pizza this week and I look forward to have the pleasure.....And sure it is more pleasure than eating the factory made Pizza every day.

[robblok]

Fact is that people who are overweight often don't want to change. If they keep eating the way they did before they always stay fat. They still want to eat at KFC a lot and are not willing to make a lifestyle change. That is why people fail because diets don't work lifestyle changes do. There is too much food around you just have to learn to say no. Most don't want that because of peer pressure and such.

I was not going to comment on JT anymore but he took a cheap shot at me saying i shame people, while the only time I did that was with family and close friends to give them a bit of motivation. Guess what it worked my brother lost weight and so did my father. I would never do that with strangers. JT is an prime example of a weak willed guy because he blocked me and still keeps taking cheap shots at me while I cannot reply him because he blocked me.

JT is also the NR one restaurant reviewer, how can you be serious about loosing weight when your hobby is eating and reviewing restaurants. He is constantly talking about food and food rewards. He is just not able to have fun without food. That is why it goes so slow with him. I do applaud him for having progress at all. But he is looking at everything as an excuse to be able to continue his hobby. EATING.

I still say that people who cook their meals themselves and learn healthy eating habits wont fail. It will be hard especially if you have kids or are in a toxic food environment (meaning to much food around you). Also genetics play a role however EVERYONE can improve on him or herself if they are willing to make lifestyle changes.

My dad who is now with me was commenting on his friends who are so fat but too lazy to even go 1km with a bike instead of a car and keep on drinking beer and eating loads and at the same time complaining about their weight and heart problems. Those people fail... because they are not willing to change. Sure not everyone will be super skinny but as overweight as some are is really not necessary,

I am having a holliday and read a lot about genetics and diet and such written by a great author that backs things up with scientific research. Alan Aragon one of the best there is.

He states that some people have real bad genes and others have not, but both can reach normal weight its harder for those with bad genes. But certainly not impossible but they need to change what they eat. The ones with super genes can eat all the bad stuff and still stay relatively lean. Your genes do set limits on how lean one can be and I have accepted that I will not be fitness model lean (at least not year round) because my genes and body fight that too much. But the ones with bad genes are far less as the ones that are all obese, so you can't blame it only on that its bad genes, combined with a bad food environment and lack of willpower.

If I ate all I wanted Id be fat too and believe me I love eating too and feel hungry too. Its hard to moderate ones food if your hungry but its not impossible just less fun. But the current generation wants everything easy.

"Fact is that people who are overweight often don't want to change".

This is the basic assumption behind most posts but I would contend that it is more a problem of not being able to change, or deep down being very fearful of change. Certainly for obese people this is likely the problem. This misunderstanding leads to unmerited criticism and a hard punishing moralistic attitude because we assume they are being greedy, lazy, or stubborn, and time and time again you here the phrase 'lack of will power'. Then we blame. But many of my friends and family are overweight to varying degrees but I couldn't call them weak willed at all, on the contrary. It doesn't stop me feeling very angry at times though I must admit, it seems like they are behaving rather like hogs. And I have to remind myself that their internal reality is quite different, in fact they are defending themselves. Because to varying degrees they no longer have access to real enriching pleasures, it is likely they are tenaciously holding on to the one last thing in life that still affords unconditional pleasure.

I do strongly agree that post world war 2 generations have fallen in to the trap that life is rather easier than it actually is, and one of the most corrosive beliefs is feeling hard done by when in fact we are merely being presented with fundamental realities of life. This is something I am currently having to work on. It is very difficult to feel the necessary emotions and thoughts. Sometimes I feel absolute misery.

Good points, but it boils down to: If I eat too much I get health problems and my body will hurt. Most fat people know that. If you continue to eat too much knowing you get serious health problems is a lack of willpower (either to eat less or to accept the reality). Eating less doesn't mean you can never have the pleasure of eating anymore. You can still eat burger, cake, pizza, cookies, beer....just not everything every day.

I plan already to make a real opulent Pizza this week and I look forward to have the pleasure.....And sure it is more pleasure than eating the factory made Pizza every day.

That is a good point once your at a good weight you can eat that ice cream or that pizza as long as you don't eat it every day.

However when losing weight its gard to eat those things and still lose the weight.

Now here in Lipe i try to snorkle 2 to 3 hours and walk an other so i can eat something extra once every few days. Its harder here as at home to eat healthy but even here i try to take salad and meats.

Its all about choices i might be a bit more extreme but i got different goals. Still people will always have to limit foods.

[h90]

Fact is that people who are overweight often don't want to change. If they keep eating the way they did before they always stay fat. They still want to eat at KFC a lot and are not willing to make a lifestyle change. That is why people fail because diets don't work lifestyle changes do. There is too much food around you just have to learn to say no. Most don't want that because of peer pressure and such.

I was not going to comment on JT anymore but he took a cheap shot at me saying i shame people, while the only time I did that was with family and close friends to give them a bit of motivation. Guess what it worked my brother lost weight and so did my father. I would never do that with strangers. JT is an prime example of a weak willed guy because he blocked me and still keeps taking cheap shots at me while I cannot reply him because he blocked me.

JT is also the NR one restaurant reviewer, how can you be serious about loosing weight when your hobby is eating and reviewing restaurants. He is constantly talking about food and food rewards. He is just not able to have fun without food. That is why it goes so slow with him. I do applaud him for having progress at all. But he is looking at everything as an excuse to be able to continue his hobby. EATING.

I still say that people who cook their meals themselves and learn healthy eating habits wont fail. It will be hard especially if you have kids or are in a toxic food environment (meaning to much food around you). Also genetics play a role however EVERYONE can improve on him or herself if they are willing to make lifestyle changes.

My dad who is now with me was commenting on his friends who are so fat but too lazy to even go 1km with a bike instead of a car and keep on drinking beer and eating loads and at the same time complaining about their weight and heart problems. Those people fail... because they are not willing to change. Sure not everyone will be super skinny but as overweight as some are is really not necessary,

I am having a holliday and read a lot about genetics and diet and such written by a great author that backs things up with scientific research. Alan Aragon one of the best there is.

He states that some people have real bad genes and others have not, but both can reach normal weight its harder for those with bad genes. But certainly not impossible but they need to change what they eat. The ones with super genes can eat all the bad stuff and still stay relatively lean. Your genes do set limits on how lean one can be and I have accepted that I will not be fitness model lean (at least not year round) because my genes and body fight that too much. But the ones with bad genes are far less as the ones that are all obese, so you can't blame it only on that its bad genes, combined with a bad food environment and lack of willpower.

If I ate all I wanted Id be fat too and believe me I love eating too and feel hungry too. Its hard to moderate ones food if your hungry but its not impossible just less fun. But the current generation wants everything easy.

"Fact is that people who are overweight often don't want to change".

This is the basic assumption behind most posts but I would contend that it is more a problem of not being able to change, or deep down being very fearful of change. Certainly for obese people this is likely the problem. This misunderstanding leads to unmerited criticism and a hard punishing moralistic attitude because we assume they are being greedy, lazy, or stubborn, and time and time again you here the phrase 'lack of will power'. Then we blame. But many of my friends and family are overweight to varying degrees but I couldn't call them weak willed at all, on the contrary. It doesn't stop me feeling very angry at times though I must admit, it seems like they are behaving rather like hogs. And I have to remind myself that their internal reality is quite different, in fact they are defending themselves. Because to varying degrees they no longer have access to real enriching pleasures, it is likely they are tenaciously holding on to the one last thing in life that still affords unconditional pleasure.

I do strongly agree that post world war 2 generations have fallen in to the trap that life is rather easier than it actually is, and one of the most corrosive beliefs is feeling hard done by when in fact we are merely being presented with fundamental realities of life. This is something I am currently having to work on. It is very difficult to feel the necessary emotions and thoughts. Sometimes I feel absolute misery.

Good points, but it boils down to: If I eat too much I get health problems and my body will hurt. Most fat people know that. If you continue to eat too much knowing you get serious health problems is a lack of willpower (either to eat less or to accept the reality). Eating less doesn't mean you can never have the pleasure of eating anymore. You can still eat burger, cake, pizza, cookies, beer....just not everything every day.

I plan already to make a real opulent Pizza this week and I look forward to have the pleasure.....And sure it is more pleasure than eating the factory made Pizza every day.

That is a good point once your at a good weight you can eat that ice cream or that pizza as long as you don't eat it every day.

However when losing weight its gard to eat those things and still lose the weight.

Now here in Lipe i try to snorkle 2 to 3 hours and walk an other so i can eat something extra once every few days. Its harder here as at home to eat healthy but even here i try to take salad and meats.

Its all about choices i might be a bit more extreme but i got different goals. Still people will always have to limit foods.

Pizza is my favorite example: The bottom is basically a thin wheat bread (no sugar no fat). Tomatoes, herbs, garlic, ham (not much fat) (or Tuna (no fat)), a bit Salami (fat but not much Salami), Cheese (kcal wise this is a concern).

Over all the Pizza is not that bad, even while reducing weight.

Bad is what Pizza Company labels as Pizza.

Anything barbecue is still OK. Self made Burger is not bad.

(Speaking of getting from very fat to normal weight....Not speaking about reducing the last few mm of fat under the skin, which is a lot harder).

[mommysboy]

No, I am not singling out robb, I myself have posted similar. It was just a recent posting that was handy to use. Natibve Brits often use 'you' in an impersonal sense of everybody.

As I say, they do not seem to have true freewill choice.

I am only presenting the story from an oft overlooked angle. It can be told from many perspectives, another one being over indulgence.

But if someone does something to excess that makes them sick and can't stop, well that is addiction defined. And the thing about addiction is freewill goes out the window, so it does no good to speak of choice and then criticise, though I must admit it is very difficult not to when someone is eating you aout of house and home or running up medical bills for instance.

With most obese people (not necessarily just overweight) there is usually some form of depression and perhaps a troubled background.

[h90]

No, I am not singling out robb, I myself have posted similar. It was just a recent posting that was handy to use. Natibve Brits often use 'you' in an impersonal sense of everybody.

As I say, they do not seem to have true freewill choice.

I am only presenting the story from an oft overlooked angle. It can be told from many perspectives, another one being over indulgence.

But if someone does something to excess that makes them sick and can't stop, well that is addiction defined. And the thing about addiction is freewill goes out the window, so it does no good to speak of choice and then criticise, though I must admit it is very difficult not to when someone is eating you aout of house and home or running up medical bills for instance.

With most obese people (not necessarily just overweight) there is usually some form of depression and perhaps a troubled background.

No you have the freewill choice.....you can stop eating till you starve to dead (or eat vegan with many negative side effects). It is complete up to you what and how much you eat.

Of course the body want to protect it.....now it is fashion to say "addiction" to everything....shopping addiction, gambling addiction, sport addiction....so if you want there is a drink coke addiction and a eat pizza addiction.

But you have still the free will, people stop REAL addictions like smoking, heroin etc. so you can also stop the BigMac + Ice Cream addiction. Withdraw symptom is hunger. It is easy but it is not convenient. A first world problem....we can't eat as much as we want and whine about it.....most people have the problem that they can't as much as they need.