"not to lump everyone together who has a weight problem"

[Jingthing]

A combination of healthy habits works well for me.

I don't struggle with weight and never have, fast metabolism maybe, genes.

That's nice. I found myself obese at age 5 before I knew what hit me. So your experience is about as relevant as a practicing Mormon posting on an alcoholic forum.

[Jingthing]

There are no tips and tricks, eat less exercise more, how difficult is that to understand? There are however an endless torrent of excuses by the greedy and lazy with no will power and who blame others or their childhood for being over weight.

Wrong. You can eat all the steamed broccoli you want and food intake is much more important than exercise.

[laislica]

There are no tips and tricks, eat less exercise more, how difficult is that to understand? There are however an endless torrent of excuses by the greedy and lazy with no will power and who blame others or their childhood for being over weight.

Wrong. You can eat all the steamed broccoli you want and food intake is much more important than exercise.

I was also obese as a child and I have still an ongoing battle, also trying to reduce fat percentage and I can assure all that it does not get easier as you age!

Also, as a child, I was bullied by my well meaning parents into taking cod liver oil off the spoon. The damage they did still remains and I cannot eat seafood because I can't stand the smell.

There was a bbc series called the truth about food.

In one episode they proved that it is virtually impossible to beat cravings brought on by broken hormone responses.

Sorry that I have not read more than the first few and last few posts but I agree with jingthing and further more, exercise is a known way to increase appetite.

Scientists in the 60s and 70s got it wrong when they concluded that the cause of so much heart decease was too much fat in the diet.

Governments round the world followed the USA in reducing fat and increasing carbohydrate intake.

This diet has been followed for 50 odd years and has the incidence of heart des ease reduced? No, quite the contrary.

If average humans consume too much carbohydrates, it breaks the hormones that control appetite. Carbs are addictive.

As such us poor food addicts are rather bugga' docs other addicts like alcohol, fags, drugs don't need them and they can avoid them.

How does a food addict avoid food?

My lovely two daughters are also obese but they were not as children (now late 30s-40s), is there also a genetic factor at work here?

In her mid 20s one of them did the gym thing to the extent that she became slim, but she couldn't keep it off unless she was obsessive about her calorie intake and massive workouts. She had work, husband and a child to take care of. Should we condemn her to such an obsession just to stay slim?

Because it has been a life time struggle, I have tried many things during my 74 years, nothing has worked!

I have spent thousands of hours reading and trying to find an answer, I conclude that there isn't a satisfactory answer!

So if you see a drug addict do you just condemn them out of hand or do you accept that they are addicts and show compassion?

I was a nicotine addict and aged 30, successfully quit.

I shall give up alcohol tomorrow LOL, joking aside, I can drink and enjoy it without getting leg less or have DTs like many that I know.

But I can never give up food!

NO ONE CAN EXIST WITHOUT FOOD!

I wonder if the keep fit crew, muscle builders could actually give that up?

Are they also addicts?

I did know such a guy who was so addicted to exercise that when he damaged his an lie and was told to stop for a year, he persuaded his doc to allow him to swim.

He signed up at an Olympic swimming pool.

Got the keys to allow him to enter when he liked.

Went for his swim from 04:00-07:00 every day!

I wonder why people must be so judgemental and can't let things be?

[Jingthing]

Yes. Thanks. Both of those BBC docs were great. I posted them before here.

[robblok]

There are no tips and tricks, eat less exercise more, how difficult is that to understand? There are however an endless torrent of excuses by the greedy and lazy with no will power and who blame others or their childhood for being over weight.

Wrong. You can eat all the steamed broccoli you want and food intake is much more important than exercise.

I was also obese as a child and I have still an ongoing battle, also trying to reduce fat percentage and I can assure all that it does not get easier as you age!

Also, as a child, I was bullied by my well meaning parents into taking cod liver oil off the spoon. The damage they did still remains and I cannot eat seafood because I can't stand the smell.

There was a bbc series called the truth about food.

In one episode they proved that it is virtually impossible to beat cravings brought on by broken hormone responses.

Sorry that I have not read more than the first few and last few posts but I agree with jingthing and further more, exercise is a known way to increase appetite.

Scientists in the 60s and 70s got it wrong when they concluded that the cause of so much heart decease was too much fat in the diet.

Governments round the world followed the USA in reducing fat and increasing carbohydrate intake.

This diet has been followed for 50 odd years and has the incidence of heart des ease reduced? No, quite the contrary.

If average humans consume too much carbohydrates, it breaks the hormones that control appetite. Carbs are addictive.

As such us poor food addicts are rather bugga' docs other addicts like alcohol, fags, drugs don't need them and they can avoid them.

How does a food addict avoid food?

My lovely two daughters are also obese but they were not as children (now late 30s-40s), is there also a genetic factor at work here?

In her mid 20s one of them did the gym thing to the extent that she became slim, but she couldn't keep it off unless she was obsessive about her calorie intake and massive workouts. She had work, husband and a child to take care of. Should we condemn her to such an obsession just to stay slim?

Because it has been a life time struggle, I have tried many things during my 74 years, nothing has worked!

I have spent thousands of hours reading and trying to find an answer, I conclude that there isn't a satisfactory answer!

So if you see a drug addict do you just condemn them out of hand or do you accept that they are addicts and show compassion?

I was a nicotine addict and aged 30, successfully quit.

I shall give up alcohol tomorrow LOL, joking aside, I can drink and enjoy it without getting leg less or have DTs like many that I know.

But I can never give up food!

NO ONE CAN EXIST WITHOUT FOOD!

I wonder if the keep fit crew, muscle builders could actually give that up?

Are they also addicts?

I did know such a guy who was so addicted to exercise that when he damaged his an lie and was told to stop for a year, he persuaded his doc to allow him to swim.

He signed up at an Olympic swimming pool.

Got the keys to allow him to enter when he liked.

Went for his swim from 04:00-07:00 every day!

I wonder why people must be so judgemental and can't let things be?

To be honest i can easily give it up a few days, at times I have to push myself to do my exercise. But the other side of the medal is if I really give it up I will have no exhaust to relieve stress and I will end up grumpy. But seriously I am not waiting to train and often have to give myself a nudge to do the exercise (feeling satisfied when done but not always in the mood to do it).

I am obsessive about what I eat because I am real lean now (far below normal limits). I am sure that if i accepted an other level of lean I would have an easier time. Still I know that now I don't eat enough (because of getting lean) so now I am slowly reverse dieting (meaning adding lets say 100 calories every 7-10 days) so your body learn to burn extra calories without getting fat. Its a method that is successful for some.

To be honest everyone can reach a non obese level, we might not all get super slim but real obese is just a character flaw. Everyone can reduce his body-weight from obese to overweight. Do I condemn people.. no only those who moan about it and make excuses not to do it in the end. Blaming it all on external factors while not trying anything themselves.

[laislica]

There are no tips and tricks, eat less exercise more, how difficult is that to understand? There are however an endless torrent of excuses by the greedy and lazy with no will power and who blame others or their childhood for being over weight.

Wrong. You can eat all the steamed broccoli you want and food intake is much more important than exercise.

I was also obese as a child and I have still an ongoing battle, also trying to reduce fat percentage and I can assure all that it does not get easier as you age!

Also, as a child, I was bullied by my well meaning parents into taking cod liver oil off the spoon. The damage they did still remains and I cannot eat seafood because I can't stand the smell.

There was a bbc series called the truth about food.

In one episode they proved that it is virtually impossible to beat cravings brought on by broken hormone responses.

Sorry that I have not read more than the first few and last few posts but I agree with jingthing and further more, exercise is a known way to increase appetite.

Scientists in the 60s and 70s got it wrong when they concluded that the cause of so much heart decease was too much fat in the diet.

Governments round the world followed the USA in reducing fat and increasing carbohydrate intake.

This diet has been followed for 50 odd years and has the incidence of heart des ease reduced? No, quite the contrary.

If average humans consume too much carbohydrates, it breaks the hormones that control appetite. Carbs are addictive.

As such us poor food addicts are rather bugga' docs other addicts like alcohol, fags, drugs don't need them and they can avoid them.

How does a food addict avoid food?

My lovely two daughters are also obese but they were not as children (now late 30s-40s), is there also a genetic factor at work here?

In her mid 20s one of them did the gym thing to the extent that she became slim, but she couldn't keep it off unless she was obsessive about her calorie intake and massive workouts. She had work, husband and a child to take care of. Should we condemn her to such an obsession just to stay slim?

Because it has been a life time struggle, I have tried many things during my 74 years, nothing has worked!

I have spent thousands of hours reading and trying to find an answer, I conclude that there isn't a satisfactory answer!

So if you see a drug addict do you just condemn them out of hand or do you accept that they are addicts and show compassion?

I was a nicotine addict and aged 30, successfully quit.

I shall give up alcohol tomorrow LOL, joking aside, I can drink and enjoy it without getting leg less or have DTs like many that I know.

But I can never give up food!

NO ONE CAN EXIST WITHOUT FOOD!

I wonder if the keep fit crew, muscle builders could actually give that up?

Are they also addicts?

I did know such a guy who was so addicted to exercise that when he damaged his an lie and was told to stop for a year, he persuaded his doc to allow him to swim.

He signed up at an Olympic swimming pool.

Got the keys to allow him to enter when he liked.

Went for his swim from 04:00-07:00 every day!

I wonder why people must be so judgemental and can't let things be?

To be honest i can easily give it up a few days, at times I have to push myself to do my exercise. But the other side of the medal is if I really give it up I will have no exhaust to relieve stress and I will end up grumpy. But seriously I am not waiting to train and often have to give myself a nudge to do the exercise (feeling satisfied when done but not always in the mood to do it).

I am obsessive about what I eat because I am real lean now (far below normal limits). I am sure that if i accepted an other level of lean I would have an easier time. Still I know that now I don't eat enough (because of getting lean) so now I am slowly reverse dieting (meaning adding lets say 100 calories every 7-10 days) so your body learn to burn extra calories without getting fat. Its a method that is successful for some.

To be honest everyone can reach a non obese level, we might not all get super slim but real obese is just a character flaw. Everyone can reduce his body-weight from obese to overweight. Do I condemn people.. no only those who moan about it and make excuses not to do it in the end. Blaming it all on external factors while not trying anything themselves.

I'm sure you can give it up for a few days but try to give it up for life!

A different story then?

[robblok]

I have given it up for years.. and got fat and my health got worse. So yes I can give it up. (busy with work not a good excuse at all as there is always time)

But why give up something that is clearly good for your health, everyone knows you should stay active and hold on to your muscles as you age. But if there was a pil that gave me all the benefits id take it.

But how can you compare that with an addiction that is bad for your health being obese and such ?

[rogeroc]

But people really, really struggle to give up smoking and drinking as well.

[robblok]

But people really, really struggle to give up smoking and drinking as well.

I know some people do, im lucky that I don't have much problems addiction wise (do love my food). Did numerous drugs in the past (I am Dutch and even did the harder stuff and never got hooked could always stop it).

Alcohol really has no appeal to me as I don't like the taste of beer, if I drink I drink to get drunk. Smoking.. never did it and see it as a filthy habit that I don't want to acquire. I was the only one in my family who never smoked.. both my brother and dad stopped.. mom can't kick the habit.

But nobody ever said things should be easy.. why is it we expect things to be easy. Its like we want everything without effort.

JT over here seems to think that his hobby as restaurant reviewer has nothing to do with him being overweight. He blames everything but himself. Sure its hard and harder for some but that does not mean we should not try.

If you look back say 50 years people were not fat like they are now.. and our genes can't have changed in 50 years. So its clearly food related. Just cook your own food and accept you can't have it all. Its not like its our right to eat what we want and stay lean. It just does not work that way.

[botfly]

A combination of healthy habits works well for me.

I don't struggle with weight and never have, fast metabolism maybe, genes.

That's nice. I found myself obese at age 5 before I knew what hit me. So your experience is about as relevant as a practicing Mormon posting on an alcoholic forum.

Learn to read, it is a useful skill which will assist you in comprehension. 'A combination of healthy habits works well for me'.

The key word is 'habits'. There is absolutely no benefit to working out every day if you chug down pizza and a few beers after. Maintaining weight loss takes discipline and yoyo dieting is inadvisable.

Edited January 6, 2016 by botfly

[laislica]

A combination of healthy habits works well for me.

I don't struggle with weight and never have, fast metabolism maybe, genes.

That's nice. I found myself obese at age 5 before I knew what hit me. So your experience is about as relevant as a practicing Mormon posting on an alcoholic forum.

Learn to read, it is a useful skill which will assist you in comprehension. 'A combination of healthy habits works well for me'.

The key word is 'habits'. There is absolutely no benefit to working out every day if you chug down pizza and a few beers after. Maintaining weight loss takes discipline and yoyo dieting is inadvisable.

Well that's an interesting perspective - "the key word is habits".

My key word would be addiction.

[laislica]

But people really, really struggle to give up smoking and drinking as well.

I know some people do, im lucky that I don't have much problems addiction wise (do love my food). Did numerous drugs in the past (I am Dutch and even did the harder stuff and never got hooked could always stop it).

Alcohol really has no appeal to me as I don't like the taste of beer, if I drink I drink to get drunk. Smoking.. never did it and see it as a filthy habit that I don't want to acquire. I was the only one in my family who never smoked.. both my brother and dad stopped.. mom can't kick the habit.

But nobody ever said things should be easy.. why is it we expect things to be easy. Its like we want everything without effort.

JT over here seems to think that his hobby as restaurant reviewer has nothing to do with him being overweight. He blames everything but himself. Sure its hard and harder for some but that does not mean we should not try.

If you look back say 50 years people were not fat like they are now.. and our genes can't have changed in 50 years. So its clearly food related. Just cook your own food and accept you can't have it all. Its not like its our right to eat what we want and stay lean. It just does not work that way.

I agree that it is food related. 50-60 years ago, as I said before, scientists made a mistake and the world adapted its diet wrongly to reduce fat and increase carbs.

This error breaks the hormones of most people and they become addicts.

Count yourself as lucky that you are not an addictive type.

If we are to give blame then why not blame the scientists who have given us the wrong advice for so many years, rather than the addicts that they helped to create?

[robblok]

But people really, really struggle to give up smoking and drinking as well.

I know some people do, im lucky that I don't have much problems addiction wise (do love my food). Did numerous drugs in the past (I am Dutch and even did the harder stuff and never got hooked could always stop it).

Alcohol really has no appeal to me as I don't like the taste of beer, if I drink I drink to get drunk. Smoking.. never did it and see it as a filthy habit that I don't want to acquire. I was the only one in my family who never smoked.. both my brother and dad stopped.. mom can't kick the habit.

But nobody ever said things should be easy.. why is it we expect things to be easy. Its like we want everything without effort.

JT over here seems to think that his hobby as restaurant reviewer has nothing to do with him being overweight. He blames everything but himself. Sure its hard and harder for some but that does not mean we should not try.

If you look back say 50 years people were not fat like they are now.. and our genes can't have changed in 50 years. So its clearly food related. Just cook your own food and accept you can't have it all. Its not like its our right to eat what we want and stay lean. It just does not work that way.

I agree that it is food related. 50-60 years ago, as I said before, scientists made a mistake and the world adapted its diet wrongly to reduce fat and increase carbs.

This error breaks the hormones of most people and they become addicts.

Count yourself as lucky that you are not an addictive type.

If we are to give blame then why not blame the scientists who have given us the wrong advice for so many years, rather than the addicts that they helped to create?

I dont blame anyone, however once you are looking in the mirror and your huge i do feel that its up to the person himself to make the change. I am also aware that not all bodies are created equal and some will get better results as others. But EVERYONE can improve on themselves. I just never went with the everything is out of our hands and we can't change our destiny. I believe there is a lot that we can change in our own life (not only weight) and we are not slaves of our genes / upbringing. (though it certainly counts as I could do all the biking exercise I want I would not get near Lance his performance). But within limits we can all improve.

Every year / time i set new goals for myself but given that I am near the limit of my strength gains and adding extra muscle will be super hard as I am already near my genetic potential it is hard to keep motivated. Now i just go for leaner (less fat) while I am already quite lean. But I need something to work too and my exercise should be hard not easy. That is just how I am I need a challenge though I wont set impossible goals. I have totally changed my body in 5 years from fat to lean and muscular. (most changes in the first year). Other people doing the same as me might have gotten even leaner.. while others less lean and more muscle.. that is because we all change a bit in our genetic makeup. But I am sure that everyone who went the same way as me would have seen HUGE improvements.

You have to accept that all our bodies are different I got a friend that has a huge back (looks nice) but does not train it much.. i train it a lot and more intense and don't get what he has.. same with his abs he got great ones mine are different. Point is that you have to work with what you have but in that range you can all improve.

I just feel sometimes that people like JT are posting stuff making people feel there is no improvement possible and we are all doomed and slaves of our genes so its better not to bother at all. Maybe I am reading to much into it but he seems to be posting from a defeatist point of view while I post from a can do can improve. Its like some people need an excuse to fail.

I feel we can all improve.. like from obese to overweight (that is an improvement we can all make). I see my dad 67 loose 25 kg just like me by biking a lot (like me he does go to extremes). It just shows me that huge changes are possible if we really want it. But even if he had lost half of that weight it would still be a huge success. He did it by biking and not drinking to much sugary drinks and so on. He still eats plenty of bad stuff at times that I don't touch. But his bike rides are rides I would not even do or have the time for.

Point being even someone older can change, my mom on the other hand talks more about it and tries a bit and gives up. That is just a totally different attitude and she uses the excuses like age and stuff. My point is that by posting why things can't be done you take away much of the motivation of people. Sure people need realistic goals, and we need to know what is working against us but if you emphases that too much your discouraging people. (setting unrealistic goals is just as bad).

A balance should be struck.

[mommysboy]

But people really, really struggle to give up smoking and drinking as well.

I know some people do, im lucky that I don't have much problems addiction wise (do love my food). Did numerous drugs in the past (I am Dutch and even did the harder stuff and never got hooked could always stop it).

Alcohol really has no appeal to me as I don't like the taste of beer, if I drink I drink to get drunk. Smoking.. never did it and see it as a filthy habit that I don't want to acquire. I was the only one in my family who never smoked.. both my brother and dad stopped.. mom can't kick the habit.

But nobody ever said things should be easy.. why is it we expect things to be easy. Its like we want everything without effort.

JT over here seems to think that his hobby as restaurant reviewer has nothing to do with him being overweight. He blames everything but himself. Sure its hard and harder for some but that does not mean we should not try.

If you look back say 50 years people were not fat like they are now.. and our genes can't have changed in 50 years. So its clearly food related. Just cook your own food and accept you can't have it all. Its not like its our right to eat what we want and stay lean. It just does not work that way.

I agree that it is food related. 50-60 years ago, as I said before, scientists made a mistake and the world adapted its diet wrongly to reduce fat and increase carbs.

This error breaks the hormones of most people and they become addicts.

Count yourself as lucky that you are not an addictive type.

If we are to give blame then why not blame the scientists who have given us the wrong advice for so many years, rather than the addicts that they helped to create?

I dont blame anyone, however once you are looking in the mirror and your huge i do feel that its up to the person himself to make the change. I am also aware that not all bodies are created equal and some will get better results as others. But EVERYONE can improve on themselves. I just never went with the everything is out of our hands and we can't change our destiny. I believe there is a lot that we can change in our own life (not only weight) and we are not slaves of our genes / upbringing. (though it certainly counts as I could do all the biking exercise I want I would not get near Lance his performance). But within limits we can all improve.

Every year / time i set new goals for myself but given that I am near the limit of my strength gains and adding extra muscle will be super hard as I am already near my genetic potential it is hard to keep motivated. Now i just go for leaner (less fat) while I am already quite lean. But I need something to work too and my exercise should be hard not easy. That is just how I am I need a challenge though I wont set impossible goals. I have totally changed my body in 5 years from fat to lean and muscular. (most changes in the first year). Other people doing the same as me might have gotten even leaner.. while others less lean and more muscle.. that is because we all change a bit in our genetic makeup. But I am sure that everyone who went the same way as me would have seen HUGE improvements.

You have to accept that all our bodies are different I got a friend that has a huge back (looks nice) but does not train it much.. i train it a lot and more intense and don't get what he has.. same with his abs he got great ones mine are different. Point is that you have to work with what you have but in that range you can all improve.

I just feel sometimes that people like JT are posting stuff making people feel there is no improvement possible and we are all doomed and slaves of our genes so its better not to bother at all. Maybe I am reading to much into it but he seems to be posting from a defeatist point of view while I post from a can do can improve. Its like some people need an excuse to fail.

I feel we can all improve.. like from obese to overweight (that is an improvement we can all make). I see my dad 67 loose 25 kg just like me by biking a lot (like me he does go to extremes). It just shows me that huge changes are possible if we really want it. But even if he had lost half of that weight it would still be a huge success. He did it by biking and not drinking to much sugary drinks and so on. He still eats plenty of bad stuff at times that I don't touch. But his bike rides are rides I would not even do or have the time for.

Point being even someone older can change, my mom on the other hand talks more about it and tries a bit and gives up. That is just a totally different attitude and she uses the excuses like age and stuff. My point is that by posting why things can't be done you take away much of the motivation of people. Sure people need realistic goals, and we need to know what is working against us but if you emphases that too much your discouraging people. (setting unrealistic goals is just as bad).

A balance should be struck.

I must admit I have met a few guys down the gym who I would regard as being over fond of eating, and my impression was they were using muscle building to cover up just 'being normal' if you like. Still it is better than doing nothing and we all need exercise as you say. Not a solution though to being a food junkie.

Personally, I used to think much the same as you. But as I've got older realised things are not so simple when it comes to human motivation. Nobody is saying things can't be done, just simply that food issues are much more complex than people think and often involve lack of self esteem, and depression to varying degrees. And in this state, people lose motivation easily and tend to think things are hopeless. When this is the case it does no good to overemphasise positivity and will power. That actually makes things worse. And anyway we are not all the same.

I think it is this point which you appear not to be able to take on board. Perhaps you are just relatively young, or emotional crisis is something you have never faced in life as yet.

Edited January 7, 2016 by mommysboy

[robblok]

I dont blame anyone, however once you are looking in the mirror and your huge i do feel that its up to the person himself to make the change. I am also aware that not all bodies are created equal and some will get better results as others. But EVERYONE can improve on themselves. I just never went with the everything is out of our hands and we can't change our destiny. I believe there is a lot that we can change in our own life (not only weight) and we are not slaves of our genes / upbringing. (though it certainly counts as I could do all the biking exercise I want I would not get near Lance his performance). But within limits we can all improve.

Every year / time i set new goals for myself but given that I am near the limit of my strength gains and adding extra muscle will be super hard as I am already near my genetic potential it is hard to keep motivated. Now i just go for leaner (less fat) while I am already quite lean. But I need something to work too and my exercise should be hard not easy. That is just how I am I need a challenge though I wont set impossible goals. I have totally changed my body in 5 years from fat to lean and muscular. (most changes in the first year). Other people doing the same as me might have gotten even leaner.. while others less lean and more muscle.. that is because we all change a bit in our genetic makeup. But I am sure that everyone who went the same way as me would have seen HUGE improvements.

You have to accept that all our bodies are different I got a friend that has a huge back (looks nice) but does not train it much.. i train it a lot and more intense and don't get what he has.. same with his abs he got great ones mine are different. Point is that you have to work with what you have but in that range you can all improve.

I just feel sometimes that people like JT are posting stuff making people feel there is no improvement possible and we are all doomed and slaves of our genes so its better not to bother at all. Maybe I am reading to much into it but he seems to be posting from a defeatist point of view while I post from a can do can improve. Its like some people need an excuse to fail.

I feel we can all improve.. like from obese to overweight (that is an improvement we can all make). I see my dad 67 loose 25 kg just like me by biking a lot (like me he does go to extremes). It just shows me that huge changes are possible if we really want it. But even if he had lost half of that weight it would still be a huge success. He did it by biking and not drinking to much sugary drinks and so on. He still eats plenty of bad stuff at times that I don't touch. But his bike rides are rides I would not even do or have the time for.

Point being even someone older can change, my mom on the other hand talks more about it and tries a bit and gives up. That is just a totally different attitude and she uses the excuses like age and stuff. My point is that by posting why things can't be done you take away much of the motivation of people. Sure people need realistic goals, and we need to know what is working against us but if you emphases that too much your discouraging people. (setting unrealistic goals is just as bad).

A balance should be struck.

I must admit I have met a few guys down the gym who I would regard as being over fond of eating, and my impression was they were using muscle building to cover up just 'being normal' if you like. Still it is better than doing nothing and we all need exercise as you say. Not a solution though to being a food junkie though.

Personally, I used to think much the same as you. But as I've got older realised things are not so simple when it comes to human motivation. Nobody is saying things can't be done, just simply that food issues are much more complex than people think and often involve lack of self esteem, and depression to varying degrees. And in this state, people lose motivation easily and tend to think things are hopeless. When this is the case it does no good to overemphasise positivity and will power. That actually makes things worse.

I think it is this point which you appear not to be able to take on board. Perhaps you are just relatively young, or it is something you have never faced in life as yet.

I think your totally wrong.. and yes I am relatively young 41, but how do you think I got fat.. depression and lack of control. Did not do wonders for how I viewed myself. I hated being on pictures.. so I know more as you think.

Things are simple its just that people have other priorities and are used to having it all.

Actually when depressed it does more damage reading you can't be helped its your genes and there is no way out. Positive things do help a lot more then. Think you and I have a different idea about own responsibility and how easy things should be for people.

More and more people are accepting fat as normal now and don't even make the effort to change because of stories like how impossible it is.

Just think about it.. if you see everyone is fat around you and you constantly read how everything is working against you and you can't be saved. Would you have motivation ?

Or when you see people going to gyms, doing walking biking and eating healthy and reading how you can change your body and see people get results.

Guess we are different indeed.. I am more positive as you. I have more faith in things and in someones ability to change.

Maybe you should look at the vid and see what is possible for someone in crutches overweight and limited mobility. Seems this guy was in a far worse situation as many others and he succeeded. All that negativity is not needed.. but you do need to sacrifice stuff to get where you want to go.. That is the problem.. people want everything easy (me included)

Edited January 7, 2016 by robblok

[mommysboy]

I guess people see things differently. There is no right or wrong. Probably I would have said much the same at 41. Yes i am wary of people who are overly positive or who overemphasise effort over psychological change. I would ask again, if it is so do-able then why isn't everyone doing it ?. It is because they are in some part de-motivated yes, but that's it?.. no it's not. The key undoubtedly is some form of counselling I think. Just dieting and heroic change ends in failure for most people.

[inbound]

Well, it certainly sounds like a weighty issue. Putting on the pounds is all too easy with the variety of food on offer. Eating Thai food makes me shed weight quickly. Consider eating that awful noodle soup you can buy on the streets. I think I'd rather stick to farrang food. I have a HiSo digestive system that can only handle the finer things in life.

[robblok]

I guess people see things differently. There is no right or wrong. Probably I would have said much the same at 41. Yes i am wary of people who are overly positive or who overemphasise effort over psychological change. I would ask again, if it is so do-able then why isn't everyone doing it ?. It is because they are in some part de-motivated yes, but that's it?.. no it's not. The key undoubtedly is some form of counselling I think. Just dieting and heroic change ends in failure for most people.

Your putting so much emphasis on counseling but you don't want to do any statements about what is better, hearing positive news or getting drummed in that its impossible.

Guess that would sink your whole point if you admitted that being positive is the right thing instead of constantly hearing what you can't do and that your are going to fail.

You can't have it both way's mate saying its a mental problem and then completely ignoring positive thinking and a can do attitude over hearing you cant do it all the time.

Reason people are not doing it is clear.. its doable but costs effort. Its easier to hear your going to fail and chug an other beer and take an other burger.

Edited January 7, 2016 by robblok

[mommysboy]

I guess people see things differently. There is no right or wrong. Probably I would have said much the same at 41. Yes i am wary of people who are overly positive or who overemphasise effort over psychological change. I would ask again, if it is so do-able then why isn't everyone doing it ?. It is because they are in some part de-motivated yes, but that's it?.. no it's not. The key undoubtedly is some form of counselling I think. Just dieting and heroic change ends in failure for most people.

Your putting so much emphasis on counseling but you don't want to do any statements about what is better, hearing positive news or getting drummed in that its impossible.

Guess that would sink your whole point if you admitted that being positive is the right thing instead of constantly hearing what you can't do and that your are going to fail.

You can't have it both way's mate saying its a mental problem and then completely ignoring positive thinking and a can do attitude over hearing you cant do it all the time.

Reason people are not doing it is clear.. its doable but costs effort. Its easier to hear your going to fail and chug an other beer and take an other burger.

There's much more to the psyche, than 'mental' faculties. At root we are more driven by the irrational- moods, emotions, feelings, fear, destiny, etc, than we are by the rational mind. That is why simple cognitive action often fails.

We simply have to conclude that most people can't or won't change. You largely think they won't, or can change without dealing with underlying issues. I prefer to see it as a complex issue you see it more simply. All addictions have multifarious factors involved, individual, economic, environmental.

The simple solution would be for governments to regulate what food is sold, and how much sugar it might contain. That won't happen in a hundred years.

If someone is unable to get slim, and that's most people, then yes I think group help activities and counselling would yield results.

When someone gains insight, then it's time to talk of positive thought, of course its important.

But any change in habit has to be sustainable, otherwise one will be left like Tantalus, and that is not a happy state of affairs.

I would also say that at some point in their lives, perhaps at 20, 30, 50, most tire of constant struggle, and a solution can not really on constant will power and heroic struggle.

(I am neither positive or negative and don't want to get drawn in to polarized or dualistic arguments, that's something for you to resolve in yourself, it takes time and comes with age. One simple trick if it helps is to speak up for what it is you are rejecting. So as crazy as it sounds you might want to contemplate on the better aspects of negativity.)

[botfly]

Governments control food? What about self control?

[laislica]

Governments control food? What about self control?

So do you think an addict can exercise self control?

Then there is new research that shows that many prescription drugs will, as a side effect, increase your weight.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/12/22/6-reasons-were-fatter-than-30-years-ago-its-not-food-or-exercise/

This is a very complex subject and it may not be correct to look at it as it is a simple problem. Those fat bastards with no control who eat too much and do insufficient exercise.........

They only need to take control - get a grip and they will be slim and healthy!

It's doable, there is no excuse for their obesity they are just greedy and lazy.... Not like me who can control my calorie intake and can do shed loads of exercise, after all it only takes a spot of scheduling to fit all the necessary hours of exercise in?

They should stop whinging, and get a grip, oh and stop chugging another beer.......

Wow!

I didn't realise how easy it would be for me to regain a healthy fat percentage.

Unfortunately, the meds my Dr prescribes for me will totally cock up my good efforts but I and others will never know that, they will just bang on about how lazy

and greedy I am!

If I were a pier of curtains, I suppose you would tell me to pull myself together?

How about you smug lot who are lucky enough not to be inflicted with our fatties problems share your diets and exercise routines in a minute by minute level of detail?

I am sure that there are a few members who are young enough to follow your lead to the letter and report how it works or not.

What will you say if it doesn't work?

I would remind you of Mr Fines who spent a year with the Inuit Indians, ate seal blubber and no fruit or veg for a year and didn't get scurvy. He returned to the USA and reported this and his peers accused him of lying.

He booked himself into the mental hospital (Bell View) for half a year and they fed him the Inuit diet as best they could.

After this time he did not have scurvy!

After that he tried a diet without fat and got well I'll in one month. He reintroduced fat and was fine again in a week.

Just sayin........

[robblok]

I guess people see things differently. There is no right or wrong. Probably I would have said much the same at 41. Yes i am wary of people who are overly positive or who overemphasise effort over psychological change. I would ask again, if it is so do-able then why isn't everyone doing it ?. It is because they are in some part de-motivated yes, but that's it?.. no it's not. The key undoubtedly is some form of counselling I think. Just dieting and heroic change ends in failure for most people.

Your putting so much emphasis on counseling but you don't want to do any statements about what is better, hearing positive news or getting drummed in that its impossible.

Guess that would sink your whole point if you admitted that being positive is the right thing instead of constantly hearing what you can't do and that your are going to fail.

You can't have it both way's mate saying its a mental problem and then completely ignoring positive thinking and a can do attitude over hearing you cant do it all the time.

Reason people are not doing it is clear.. its doable but costs effort. Its easier to hear your going to fail and chug an other beer and take an other burger.

There's much more to the psyche, than 'mental' faculties. At root we are more driven by the irrational- moods, emotions, feelings, fear, destiny, etc, than we are by the rational mind. That is why simple cognitive action often fails.

We simply have to conclude that most people can't or won't change. You largely think they won't, or can change without dealing with underlying issues. I prefer to see it as a complex issue you see it more simply. All addictions have multifarious factors involved, individual, economic, environmental.

The simple solution would be for governments to regulate what food is sold, and how much sugar it might contain. That won't happen in a hundred years.

If someone is unable to get slim, and that's most people, then yes I think group help activities and counselling would yield results.

When someone gains insight, then it's time to talk of positive thought, of course its important.

But any change in habit has to be sustainable, otherwise one will be left like Tantalus, and that is not a happy state of affairs.

I would also say that at some point in their lives, perhaps at 20, 30, 50, most tire of constant struggle, and a solution can not really on constant will power and heroic struggle.

(I am neither positive or negative and don't want to get drawn in to polarized or dualistic arguments, that's something for you to resolve in yourself, it takes time and comes with age. One simple trick if it helps is to speak up for what it is you are rejecting. So as crazy as it sounds you might want to contemplate on the better aspects of negativity.)

I think your a bit over the edge.. most people are slim and not overweight.. so they are the norm not the overweight people. So they are the norm.. not the overweight they are a deviation of the norm. Your acting like its the other way around by saying that most people can't get slim.

Furthermore you seem to think that struggle is a bad thing and should be avoided, how can you do that as we all should keep exercising to get old healthy. For most people that is a struggle but a necessary one. I don't exercise because I love it I exercise because i love the effects. (more energy.. able to eat more.. fitter.. healthier.. more chance to grow old healthy.. less stress) were those benefits not there id stop. So its normal to have to do some things we might not always like. That is mental toughness. I think that is what the obese people miss. They can't put themselves to do hard things and accept that not everything in life is easy.

I think that is the major difference between people some of us are willing to accept that we have to do things we dont like. That is why some of us were better at studying then others. Its not only about brains (help a lot of course) but give two equally smart kids and the one with more mental toughness will win. That is also how special forces are selected on metal toughness. (the guy in the vid i posted had everything against him far more as the average obese person but overcame he had it far worse as me and overcame)

Think we better agree to disagree.. you seem to think people are slaves to their urges.. if that was the case our law based civilization would not work as our urges would always prevail. Because that is basically what you are saying that there is no free will.

Lets agree to disagree because we are running in circles.

[laislica]

So dear Rob, you didn't read my post or the link at all?

[botfly]

Get up every morning and do some cardio before you log into your computer. Take your meds. Have a good healthy breakfast.

Yeah, I can say I'm addicted to cheese or chocolate too, and I am, but I don't blow up like a balloon because I can't stop eating.

The apologists and excusers will always have something to complain about as to why they induge. Crutches man, same as smokers or alcoholics to some extent.

[robblok]

Governments control food? What about self control?

So do you think an addict can exercise self control?

Then there is new research that shows that many prescription drugs will, as a side effect, increase your weight.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/12/22/6-reasons-were-fatter-than-30-years-ago-its-not-food-or-exercise/

This is a very complex subject and it may not be correct to look at it as it is a simple problem. Those fat bastards with no control who eat too much and do insufficient exercise.........

They only need to take control - get a grip and they will be slim and healthy!

It's doable, there is no excuse for their obesity they are just greedy and lazy.... Not like me who can control my calorie intake and can do shed loads of exercise, after all it only takes a spot of scheduling to fit all the necessary hours of exercise in?

They should stop whinging, and get a grip, oh and stop chugging another beer.......

Wow!

I didn't realise how easy it would be for me to regain a healthy fat percentage.

Unfortunately, the meds my Dr prescribes for me will totally cock up my good efforts but I and others will never know that, they will just bang on about how lazy

and greedy I am!

If I were a pier of curtains, I suppose you would tell me to pull myself together?

How about you smug lot who are lucky enough not to be inflicted with our fatties problems share your diets and exercise routines in a minute by minute level of detail?

I am sure that there are a few members who are young enough to follow your lead to the letter and report how it works or not.

What will you say if it doesn't work?

I would remind you of Mr Fines who spent a year with the Inuit Indians, ate seal blubber and no fruit or veg for a year and didn't get scurvy. He returned to the USA and reported this and his peers accused him of lying.

He booked himself into the mental hospital (Bell View) for half a year and they fed him the Inuit diet as best they could.

After this time he did not have scurvy!

After that he tried a diet without fat and got well I'll in one month. He reintroduced fat and was fine again in a week.

Just sayin........

Most obese people are not on medicine.. the people who have medical grounds for obesity are a tiny percentage.

You can put it how you wan't but in the end its still an energy balance problem (if there are no other medical problems) and sure some have it easier as others. That is a given we are not all born the same. But as i said before our genes can't have changed much in the last 100 years so its our own doing not our genes that we are now more obese as then.

Can't blame external things all the time.

They all influence things.. but you have to take some of the blame yourself too. Its so easy to lay the blame elsewhere.

As i said.. my 67 yo dad lost 25 kg.. you are probably older.. but he has been quite a bit overweight for many years and he could do it. He certainly had his body-type against him.. but not his mental toughness.. all he did was eat less and bike more.

Using age as an excuse sure.. but its still not impossible.

[botfly]

Totally agree.

[robblok]

So dear Rob, you didn't read my post or the link at all?

I read it but most of us don't take anti depressant.. also much of this can be avoided if you cook your own food.

Sure there are things working against us but they are not so bad they cant be overcome.

Also I can find research stating the opposite.. remember this is just the opinion of someone not accepted fact.

Seems some people need to blame outside influences without examining themselves.

I can agree that its harder.. but still eat worse as back then and we move less as back then. So what does that mean.. that we should take control of our own food and move more.

[laislica]

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

Yes I am quite a bit older, it doesn't stop me climbing five or six flights of stairs whilst carrying a rucksack full of groceries weighing 20 Kg or more.

My missus worries that I am overdoing it!

Maybe I am?

But it says I'm not lazy, I do exercise, I eat salad and stir fried veggies, no bread, rice spuds, milk, cheese and and, it's still nearly impossible to get slim!

[laislica]

So dear Rob, you didn't read my post or the link at all?

I read it but most of us don't take anti depressant.. also much of this can be avoided if you cook your own food.

Sure there are things working against us but they are not so bad they cant be overcome.

Also I can find research stating the opposite.. remember this is just the opinion of someone not accepted fact.

Seems some people need to blame outside influences without examining themselves.

I can agree that its harder.. but still eat worse as back then and we move less as back then. So what does that mean.. that we should take control of our own food and move more.

I can arrange to come and stay with (Near) you and I'll pay my way, you feed and exercise me, monitor what you like and show how you can control my weight. I'm up for that - are you?

[robblok]

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

Yes I am quite a bit older, it doesn't stop me climbing five or six flights of stairs whilst carrying a rucksack full of groceries weighing 20 Kg or more.

My missus worries that I am overdoing it!

Maybe I am?

But it says I'm not lazy, I do exercise, I eat salad and stir fried veggies, no bread, rice spuds, milk, cheese and and, it's still nearly impossible to get slim!

There you have it you say nearly impossible to get slim, but you are making progress. I never said its easy or that you are lazy. It takes quite some time to loose your weight. The 25 kg I lost cost me a year.. some weeks no progress at all.. had months with little progress.

Same went for my dad.. it went slow.. The most important thing is not giving up.

I am not saying that there is nothing working against you.. I am saying that we have our own responsibility in our situation.

I do believe that there are things working against us but I also believe we can overcome these things.

Also you can be overdoing it..that is possible.. I might have done it myself as I lost a lot of weight in my holiday (so when I was not training though I was snorkeling for hours).

Don't take it personal what I am posting.. I am talking here about the average person.. not about every person.