Starting business, hiring four Thai's

[Soutpeel]

Better to bum off of someone else's business that meets capital requirements, or a law firm.

What is the passport nationality of the OP?

Canadian.

So it would be legal for me to find a farang who has the necessary thai - farang employee ratio, and have him hire me? He'd then pay me, pay for social security or whatever, and I'd compensate the farang for providing this service?

Sounds legal to me, but probably shady.. as there are job placement agencies where I come from where you pay for a job.

Why not be a legal "nomad" in Canada?

I am. I pay taxes in Canada and have employees in Canada.

The only issue I have with the back to back tourist visas, is I'd like to be able to drive legally here.. with insurance. I have no driver's license anywhere in the world, and am under the impression that I cannot get a driver's license with a tourist visa.

I think you will find you can get a 1 year DL on a tourist visa at some DMV's

[oncearugge]

Better to bum off of someone else's business that meets capital requirements, or a law firm.

What is the passport nationality of the OP?

Canadian.

So it would be legal for me to find a farang who has the necessary thai - farang employee ratio, and have him hire me? He'd then pay me, pay for social security or whatever, and I'd compensate the farang for providing this service?

Sounds legal to me, but probably shady.. as there are job placement agencies where I come from where you pay for a job.

Why not be a legal "nomad" in Canada?

I am. I pay taxes in Canada and have employees in Canada.

The only issue I have with the back to back tourist visas, is I'd like to be able to drive legally here.. with insurance. I have no driver's license anywhere in the world, and am under the impression that I cannot get a driver's license with a tourist visa.

You will also discover , if you have not already, that the back to back TV's will become increasingly difficult to obtain.

[Sharp]

In the end if you work out approx costs.... 4 x 750 Thai Social (3000)+ accountant fees (2500) + work permit(?) + personal tax(?) + company tax (?).. ( both a nominal amount) but surley the TE Visa is an option based monthly calculations..... Altho illegal when working it's basically what you are doing now but easier and assist you in obtaining a DL

Edited October 8, 2015 by Sharp

[Syke1911]

I heard there is some sort of Visa I can get, where I say that I'm in Thailand looking for investment opportunities. I can show proof of having $X in a bank account in Canada.. (I'd temporarily borrow it from family, and park it in an account in my name for however long is necessary)

Also, I have non Thai family who owns condos here if that changes anything.. I could get it put in my name, to show I have assets etc..

[Soutpeel]

I heard there is some sort of Visa I can get, where I say that I'm in Thailand looking for investment opportunities. I can show proof of having $X in a bank account in Canada.. (I'd temporarily borrow it from family, and park it in an account in my name for however long is necessary)

Also, I have non Thai family who owns condos here if that changes anything.. I could get it put in my name, to show I have assets etc..

Thats a non imm B visa... proof of funds has nothing to do with per se you need an invitation from a Thai entity and this doesnt permit you to work either

[oncearugge]

I heard there is some sort of Visa I can get, where I say that I'm in Thailand looking for investment opportunities. I can show proof of having $X in a bank account in Canada.. (I'd temporarily borrow it from family, and park it in an account in my name for however long is necessary)

Also, I have non Thai family who owns condos here if that changes anything.. I could get it put in my name, to show I have assets etc..

10 MILLION Bht will secure an investment visa but it has to be your money.

Trying to scam/pretend to own something you do not is doomed to failure!

I have now finished contributing to this troll tread.

[NickJ]

Returning the money every month........yeah let us know how that one works for you.....

But when they dont you could call ghostbusters.

[Syke1911]

I heard there is some sort of Visa I can get, where I say that I'm in Thailand looking for investment opportunities. I can show proof of having $X in a bank account in Canada.. (I'd temporarily borrow it from family, and park it in an account in my name for however long is necessary)

Also, I have non Thai family who owns condos here if that changes anything.. I could get it put in my name, to show I have assets etc..

10 MILLION Bht will secure an investment visa but it has to be your money.

Trying to scam/pretend to own something you do not is doomed to failure!

I have now finished contributing to this troll tread.

I don't see how that is scamming or pretending.. I can have someone happily give ownership of 10 million baht to me. I will then happily give ownership of the 10 million baht back to them at a later date.

Legally, I do own the 10 million baht for a certain period of time which is what the Thai government wants to see.

I don't even see how one would consider this immoral, let alone illegal.. it's a legal business transaction conducted to achieve a desired outcome, which is for the Thai government to see that I have ownership of 10 million baht at the time of application, until I no longer need the desired visa.

[oncearugge]

Another "interesting" post made by the OP on another thread/topic !

"I want to marry my Thai girlfriend. I literally have no money saved..................."

[glegolo]

Another "interesting" post made by the OP on another thread/topic !

"I want to marry my Thai girlfriend. I literally have no money saved..................."

And with that, this thread is dead..

Glegolo

[Soutpeel]

I heard there is some sort of Visa I can get, where I say that I'm in Thailand looking for investment opportunities. I can show proof of having $X in a bank account in Canada.. (I'd temporarily borrow it from family, and park it in an account in my name for however long is necessary)

Also, I have non Thai family who owns condos here if that changes anything.. I could get it put in my name, to show I have assets etc..

10 MILLION Bht will secure an investment visa but it has to be your money.

Trying to scam/pretend to own something you do not is doomed to failure!

I have now finished contributing to this troll tread.

I don't see how that is scamming or pretending.. I can have someone happily give ownership of 10 million baht to me. I will then happily give ownership of the 10 million baht back to them at a later date.

Legally, I do own the 10 million baht for a certain period of time which is what the Thai government wants to see.

I don't even see how one would consider this immoral, let alone illegal.. it's a legal business transaction conducted to achieve a desired outcome, which is for the Thai government to see that I have ownership of 10 million baht at the time of application, until I no longer need the desired visa.

And who would be paying the transfer fees, stamp fees etc every 12 months when you do this to legitimise the "ownership" ? Of said condos

Cunning plan Baldrick you have already stated you cant even afford a 500k TE visa

Edited October 8, 2015 by Soutpeel

[oncearugge]

"Baldrick" was bright in comparison!

[FBlue72]

You really only need one Thai employee for a WP and B visa but

1) you'll have exit Thailand to do 90 day border stamp runs ( never have figured out why you have to do this when you have a 1 year visa, and a 1 year work permit, just another annoyance immigration seems to delight in subjecting " farang" to.

2)and get a new B visa every year. Enter just before the expiry and get 15 months out of it.

3) You'll need 9 month validity on the WP to get that new B ( in Penang ) so time it right .

The 4 worker requirement is for 1 year extensions on the B which eliminates the 90 day border stamp runs.

[FBlue72]

I heard there is some sort of Visa I can get, where I say that I'm in Thailand looking for investment opportunities. I can show proof of having $X in a bank account in Canada.. (I'd temporarily borrow it from family, and park it in an account in my name for however long is necessary)

Also, I have non Thai family who owns condos here if that changes anything.. I could get it put in my name, to show I have assets etc..

10 MILLION Bht will secure an investment visa but it has to be your money.

Trying to scam/pretend to own something you do not is doomed to failure!

I have now finished contributing to this troll tread.

I don't see how that is scamming or pretending.. I can have someone happily give ownership of 10 million baht to me. I will then happily give ownership of the 10 million baht back to them at a later date.

Legally, I do own the 10 million baht for a certain period of time which is what the Thai government wants to see.

I don't even see how one would consider this immoral, let alone illegal.. it's a legal business transaction conducted to achieve a desired outcome, which is for the Thai government to see that I have ownership of 10 million baht at the time of application, until I no longer need the desired visa.

The money has to be in a fixed deposit CD and has to stay there the entire length of the visa's validity.

Taking it out voids the visa.

Also, back when I had one of these, ( and they were only 3 million) the money had to transferred in from out of the country. Not sure if this is still a requirement.

Edited October 8, 2015 by FBlue72

[Soutpeel]

You really only need one Thai employee for a WP and B visa but

1) you'll have exit Thailand to do 90 day border stamp runs ( never have figured out why you have to do this when you have a 1 year visa, and a 1 year work permit, just another annoyance immigration seems to delight in subjecting " farang" to.

2)and get a new B visa every year. Enter just before the expiry and get 15 months out of it.

3) You'll need 9 month validity on the WP to get that new B ( in Penang ) so time it right .

The 4 worker requirement is for 1 year extensions on the B which eliminates the 90 day border stamp runs.

So much completely incorrect information in this post....

[Syke1911]

I heard there is some sort of Visa I can get, where I say that I'm in Thailand looking for investment opportunities. I can show proof of having $X in a bank account in Canada.. (I'd temporarily borrow it from family, and park it in an account in my name for however long is necessary)

Also, I have non Thai family who owns condos here if that changes anything.. I could get it put in my name, to show I have assets etc..

10 MILLION Bht will secure an investment visa but it has to be your money.

Trying to scam/pretend to own something you do not is doomed to failure!

I have now finished contributing to this troll tread.

I don't see how that is scamming or pretending.. I can have someone happily give ownership of 10 million baht to me. I will then happily give ownership of the 10 million baht back to them at a later date.

Legally, I do own the 10 million baht for a certain period of time which is what the Thai government wants to see.

I don't even see how one would consider this immoral, let alone illegal.. it's a legal business transaction conducted to achieve a desired outcome, which is for the Thai government to see that I have ownership of 10 million baht at the time of application, until I no longer need the desired visa.

The money has to be in a fixed deposit CD and has to stay there the entire length of the visa's validity.

Taking it out voids the visa.

Interesting, this might work.

The money in question belongs to family and is sitting in Canadian dollars in a CD earnings 0.7%. I suspect interest rates are higher in Thailand.

So using options, I could hedge out any foreign exchange risk from holding Thai Baht for say two years. This hedge will cost about 1.2% per year.

#1) Do Thai banks have the US equivalent of FDIC, ie) bank deposit insurance? In Canada, I believe there is $250,000 insurance for CDs/deposits.

#2) What is the length of the visa's validity?

#3) Do I have to actually show proof that I'm looking at investment opportunities? Or is a fixed deposit CD with 10,000,000 all they care about?

[Mudcrab]

And the relevance of the criminal background check in OP's first post?

If there aren't any thus far......I suspect it will only be a matter of time.

Not married...too young for retirement....still wet behind the ears methinks.

Time for the OP to spend time in the real world, not the fantasy of the internet world dreaming up more scenarios than an author of thriller novels.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Mudcrab

[elviajero]

My understand is there are umbrella type companies who can legally facilitate working for them under their company structures in Thailand with a WP and its all legal...but you will be giving them circa 30% or there abouts from your turn over

OP, Soutpeel's suggestion is probably the best option for you if you want to go legit. They will take a big fee but you will be 100% legal.

Setting up a limited company is a pain in the ass unless it's legit. Anything suggested to you that gets around the obligations of a Ltd company is illegal.

[elviajero]

I heard there is some sort of Visa I can get, where I say that I'm in Thailand looking for investment opportunities. I can show proof of having $X in a bank account in Canada.. (I'd temporarily borrow it from family, and park it in an account in my name for however long is necessary)

Also, I have non Thai family who owns condos here if that changes anything.. I could get it put in my name, to show I have assets etc..

10 MILLION Bht will secure an investment visa but it has to be your money.

Trying to scam/pretend to own something you do not is doomed to failure!

I have now finished contributing to this troll tread.

I don't see how that is scamming or pretending.. I can have someone happily give ownership of 10 million baht to me. I will then happily give ownership of the 10 million baht back to them at a later date.

Legally, I do own the 10 million baht for a certain period of time which is what the Thai government wants to see.

I don't even see how one would consider this immoral, let alone illegal.. it's a legal business transaction conducted to achieve a desired outcome, which is for the Thai government to see that I have ownership of 10 million baht at the time of application, until I no longer need the desired visa.

The money has to be in a fixed deposit CD and has to stay there the entire length of the visa's validity.

Taking it out voids the visa.

Interesting, this might work.

The money in question belongs to family and is sitting in Canadian dollars in a CD earnings 0.7%. I suspect interest rates are higher in Thailand.

So using options, I could hedge out any foreign exchange risk from holding Thai Baht for say two years. This hedge will cost about 1.2% per year.

#1) Do Thai banks have the US equivalent of FDIC, ie) bank deposit insurance? In Canada, I believe there is $250,000 insurance for CDs/deposits.

#2) What is the length of the visa's validity?

#3) Do I have to actually show proof that I'm looking at investment opportunities? Or is a fixed deposit CD with 10,000,000 all they care about?

You can invest in whatever you want in Thailand. But no visa gives you the right to work without a WP. You can only get a WP as an employee of a Thai entity and only for specific role agreed to by the issuing department of labour.

[ubonjoe]

Interesting, this might work.

The money in question belongs to family and is sitting in Canadian dollars in a CD earnings 0.7%. I suspect interest rates are higher in Thailand.

So using options, I could hedge out any foreign exchange risk from holding Thai Baht for say two years. This hedge will cost about 1.2% per year.

#1) Do Thai banks have the US equivalent of FDIC, ie) bank deposit insurance? In Canada, I believe there is $250,000 insurance for CDs/deposits.

#2) What is the length of the visa's validity?

#3) Do I have to actually show proof that I'm looking at investment opportunities? Or is a fixed deposit CD with 10,000,000 all they care about?

It is a one year extension of stay not a visa.

See clause 2.5 of Police Order 327/2557 basis for extension of stay for info.

The equivalent of the FDIC is the Deposit Protection Agency. Website: http://www.dpa.or.th/main.php?filename=index___EN#language

Some info on fixed deposit accounts here. http://www.bangkokbank.com/BANGKOKBANK/PERSONALBANKING/DAILYBANKING/ACCOUNTS/FIXEDDEPOSITS/Pages/SpecialFixedDeposits.aspx

[1FinickyOne]

I think the idea is that they want to see a legit business - if the word "shady" comes to mind, [your word not mine] it is probably not going to work.

[Syke1911]

I heard there is some sort of Visa I can get, where I say that I'm in Thailand looking for investment opportunities. I can show proof of having $X in a bank account in Canada.. (I'd temporarily borrow it from family, and park it in an account in my name for however long is necessary)

Also, I have non Thai family who owns condos here if that changes anything.. I could get it put in my name, to show I have assets etc..

10 MILLION Bht will secure an investment visa but it has to be your money.

Trying to scam/pretend to own something you do not is doomed to failure!

I have now finished contributing to this troll tread.

I don't see how that is scamming or pretending.. I can have someone happily give ownership of 10 million baht to me. I will then happily give ownership of the 10 million baht back to them at a later date.

Legally, I do own the 10 million baht for a certain period of time which is what the Thai government wants to see.

I don't even see how one would consider this immoral, let alone illegal.. it's a legal business transaction conducted to achieve a desired outcome, which is for the Thai government to see that I have ownership of 10 million baht at the time of application, until I no longer need the desired visa.

The money has to be in a fixed deposit CD and has to stay there the entire length of the visa's validity.

Taking it out voids the visa.

Interesting, this might work.

The money in question belongs to family and is sitting in Canadian dollars in a CD earnings 0.7%. I suspect interest rates are higher in Thailand.

So using options, I could hedge out any foreign exchange risk from holding Thai Baht for say two years. This hedge will cost about 1.2% per year.

#1) Do Thai banks have the US equivalent of FDIC, ie) bank deposit insurance? In Canada, I believe there is $250,000 insurance for CDs/deposits.

#2) What is the length of the visa's validity?

#3) Do I have to actually show proof that I'm looking at investment opportunities? Or is a fixed deposit CD with 10,000,000 all they care about?

You can invest in whatever you want in Thailand. But no visa gives you the right to work without a WP. You can only get a WP as an employee of a Thai entity and only for specific role agreed to by the issuing department of labour.

Thanks. Upon further thought, I can handle being an 'illegal' worker here. I have an Internet business with no need for any more employees, and am helping the Thai economy.

So I guess my goal at this point, is to find a way to get an appropriate visa to allow me to get a Thai driver's license and insurance, since I don't have one anywhere in the world, and to open bank accounts, and not need to leave every 60/90 days.

Since I'm significantly below retirement age, am not married, can't justify the 500K elite Visa, I think this investment visa thingy or whatever it is called is likely the best bet.

[seancbk]

What you heard is not correct, the not paying them for real and only social security makes them ghost employees. That is not legal either, often advisers tell you this will be ok but it is not. If you want to be full legal you will still not be full legal.

OK, thanks. So if I were to create a paper trail showing I'm paying minimum wage + social security for 4 Thai employees, but they return the money to me in cash, is this legal?

This would appear to be shady, yet legal in my opinion.

Social security and insurance payments work out at around 750 baht per month per person.

You also need a registered office and you will need to show the 4 people sitting at desks working if the labour department want to check (which they do)

You will also need a registered Thai company with 51% owned by Thais.

Setting up a Thai company will cost you

Registering company in Bangkok 23000 Govt Fees, Company Seal etc 14500 Registering Capital (2 million THB) 10000

On top of those fees you'll also have to pay for the Work Permit (I don't have current fees for that).

However, as a digital nomad so long as you stay under the radar you are unlikely to have any real issues. Just fly in and out of the Kingdom every 90 days. Depending where you are from you can get a triple entry tourist visa and get almost 9 months here before needing to fly home for the next triple entry.

If triple entry visas are not available to you then just stay in Asia getting double entry ones from the numerous consulates around Asia.

[Syke1911]

What you heard is not correct, the not paying them for real and only social security makes them ghost employees. That is not legal either, often advisers tell you this will be ok but it is not. If you want to be full legal you will still not be full legal.

OK, thanks. So if I were to create a paper trail showing I'm paying minimum wage + social security for 4 Thai employees, but they return the money to me in cash, is this legal?

This would appear to be shady, yet legal in my opinion.

Social security and insurance payments work out at around 750 baht per month per person.

You also need a registered office and you will need to show the 4 people sitting at desks working if the labour department want to check (which they do)

You will also need a registered Thai company with 51% owned by Thais.

Setting up a Thai company will cost you

Registering company in Bangkok 23000 Govt Fees, Company Seal etc 14500 Registering Capital (2 million THB) 10000

On top of those fees you'll also have to pay for the Work Permit (I don't have current fees for that).

However, as a digital nomad so long as you stay under the radar you are unlikely to have any real issues. Just fly in and out of the Kingdom every 90 days. Depending where you are from you can get a triple entry tourist visa and get almost 9 months here before needing to fly home for the next triple entry.

If triple entry visas are not available to you then just stay in Asia getting double entry ones from the numerous consulates around Asia.

Excellent information, thank you.

If I were to do this, what about the minimum wage which I heard is 300 baht a day? Is this required? Or could I do as you suggested I could above, and consider them 'interns'?

[smotherb]

What you heard is not correct, the not paying them for real and only social security makes them ghost employees. That is not legal either, often advisers tell you this will be ok but it is not. If you want to be full legal you will still not be full legal.

OK, thanks. So if I were to create a paper trail showing I'm paying minimum wage + social security for 4 Thai employees, but they return the money to me in cash, is this legal?

This would appear to be shady, yet legal in my opinion.

No that is not be legal at all.

Also you need to have a company.

It almost impossible for a digital nomad to become legal. Most just don't need the employees or can't find work for them.

Hire four maids to keep your digital office very tidy and provide other duties as required.

[Friendly Stranger]

What you heard is not correct, the not paying them for real and only social security makes them ghost employees. That is not legal either, often advisers tell you this will be ok but it is not. If you want to be full legal you will still not be full legal.

OK, thanks. So if I were to create a paper trail showing I'm paying minimum wage + social security for 4 Thai employees, but they return the money to me in cash, is this legal?

This would appear to be shady, yet legal in my opinion.

I cannot believe I'm reading this. "this would appear shady, yet legal in my opinion". At first I thought you were serious about establishing something, but it sounds like another scheme so one can stay here longer, and a bad one at that too.

If truly serious, contact a lawyer and not a forum.

[Gringogazzer]

Can't justify ฿100,000 a year (tax) for a Thai Elite.

eBay sales a touch down this year.

Could probably write it of if you pay tax in Canada.

[Syke1911]

Is it possible for me to get an English teaching job, part-time, like 5 hours a week? Can I get a work permit that way?

I have a degree. And I'd work for free.

[thailanddogerator]

Yes, easy, but they also need to be able to tell what they are doing if they are questionned, so they need to be very good friends which I don't believe you have except if you are a dreamer...

What you heard is not correct, the not paying them for real and only social security makes them ghost employees. That is not legal either, often advisers tell you this will be ok but it is not. If you want to be full legal you will still not be full legal.

OK, thanks. So if I were to create a paper trail showing I'm paying minimum wage + social security for 4 Thai employees, but they return the money to me in cash, is this legal?

This would appear to be shady, yet legal in my opinion.

[thailanddogerator]

Only people who have been scammed paid this...

It actually costs less than half of what you are telling.

What you heard is not correct, the not paying them for real and only social security makes them ghost employees. That is not legal either, often advisers tell you this will be ok but it is not. If you want to be full legal you will still not be full legal.

OK, thanks. So if I were to create a paper trail showing I'm paying minimum wage + social security for 4 Thai employees, but they return the money to me in cash, is this legal?

This would appear to be shady, yet legal in my opinion.

Social security and insurance payments work out at around 750 baht per month per person.

You also need a registered office and you will need to show the 4 people sitting at desks working if the labour department want to check (which they do)

You will also need a registered Thai company with 51% owned by Thais.

Setting up a Thai company will cost you

Registering company in Bangkok 23000 Govt Fees, Company Seal etc 14500 Registering Capital (2 million THB) 10000

On top of those fees you'll also have to pay for the Work Permit (I don't have current fees for that).

However, as a digital nomad so long as you stay under the radar you are unlikely to have any real issues. Just fly in and out of the Kingdom every 90 days. Depending where you are from you can get a triple entry tourist visa and get almost 9 months here before needing to fly home for the next triple entry.

If triple entry visas are not available to you then just stay in Asia getting double entry ones from the numerous consulates around Asia.