Enormous Shakeup Of Visa And Immigration Rules

[Acharn]

I am genuinely married and have been for five and half years. The point here is that the Thai system, has no form of redress for mistakes, moreover after being married for a certain period of time, one should not have to be reliant on annual renewals, but be given some form of permanent residency, providing all the paper work and the circumstances are kosher! But that is not the case, I know someone who has been married here for 27 years and still has to go through the ridiculous process of annual renewal. If his wife had gone to the UK with him, should could have been a prominient local politician or even an MP by now! But here your just a foreigner!

Well, I've been here for 24 years and still have to renew my visa every year, but that's by my choice! I first used the married person's visa and often wish now I'd done the paperwork for a residence permit -- I would have been eligible in 1985, and I thing the cost then was 5,000 baht. I could apply for a residence permit now, but at almost 200,000 baht I can't afford it. By the way, my wife passed away eleven years ago and I had to switch to a retirement visa. At the time I couldn't meet the income requirement for a year, and the officials at Immigration *advised* me to make visa runs for the next year. I like those people -- they've always been helpful to me. If your friend is pissing and moaning because he has to renew his visa every year, tell him to put in the paperwork for a residence permit.

I was puzzled this year by the requirement for a medical certificate. I never had to produce one before, so I'm glad they are now doing away with it.

[Looper]

>>Investment visa: glad that they will grand-father renewals.

Yes good news indeed.

Does anybody know if I'll be able to use my wife's grandfather for this?

My own is getting a bit absent minded with the advancing years and I'm not sure how he would cope with the long haul travel.

I think his luggage would stand a better chance of arriving at the correct airport and I don't fancy spending 2 weeks trying to track him down in Singapore or Dubai.

[Acharn]

what level of pension do you need to negate the need for cash in bank ?

65000 Baht/mth

Even if one has a pension/income of 65K Baht/month or more this does not necessarily negate the need for at least SOME cash in the (Thai) bank when applying for the 365 day extension of stay

based on retirement. Ive seen numerous posts by those who have income in excess of 65K baht/month who were told they also need money in a Thai bank acct. How much that would be is,of course,dependent on the individual case involved. But I try to have as much as possible (in my case about 300K baht) even tho my income exceeds 65K baht/mo AND also show that Im actually using the acct. for living expenses throughout the year. The question now seems to be(for those of us who need less than the 800K baht each year) Does the amount we do keep in the bank have to be there as far in advance as it would if we actually needed the full 800K? Anyone who is 'in the same retirement boat" as I am,please dont hesitate to PM me with any info.

All the best,the Harpman

I used to worry about it, when they first told me I had to give them a copy of my bank book, but many years my bank balance at the time I get the letter from the bank made up is 3,000 or 4,000 baht. The first year I had a balance of about 20,000 baht and the official said I should have more but approved the visa. Since then the amount has always been lower, but none have made any remark.

I think they first started doing this in 1997, when they were desperate to get money into Thai banks -- and at that time the Bank of Thailand had a rule that foreigners couldn't open a bank account!

Anyway, as far as I know, as long as you meet the income requirement and have a bank account you're OK even if the balance is low. I get nervous/scared every year when renewal comes up, but I've never had a serious problem. And it used to be you had to keep coming back for three or four months before the committee finally considered your application -- a long time worrying. Now they stamp my visa the same day -- usually no more than about an hour. I've come to rather like Immigration; they've always been helpful to me.

[bluedragon]

I would like to know why all the people living in thailand on a so called permanent basis do not become a citizen of Thailand and saves themselve the hazzle of forever obtaining vizas

RAMSEE, As a U.S. citizen, with a militar retired penison, I see one problem with this.

As I understand it, if I become a citizen of another country, I effectively give up my U.S. citizenship and also my military pension.. I may be wrong on this, but if that's the case, I would be crazy to become a citizen of Thailand. Regards, BD.

[sbk]

I would like to know why all the people living in thailand on a so called permanent basis do not become a citizen of Thailand and saves themselve the hazzle of forever obtaining vizas

RAMSEE, As a U.S. citizen, with a militar retired penison, I see one problem with this.

As I understand it, if I become a citizen of another country, I effectively give up my U.S. citizenship and also my military pension.. I may be wrong on this, but if that's the case, I would be crazy to become a citizen of Thailand. Regards, BD.

You are wrong. This has been discussed in previous threads; it is possible to gain a second citizenship without forfeiting ones US citizenship.

Back to the topic at hand: new Thai visa regulations.

If I apply for a tourist visa at any embassy in the world before going into Thailand I get 60 days, then I can ask for 30 days more at the local immigration office. After 90 days I have too leave

Thailand, but when I get into the new country (ex Malaysia) I can ask for tourist visa again and get new

60 days + 30 days extending, All this without have to think about the 180 days.

roysv, you confuse me a bit here, according to the originally posted article it sounds like the 60 day tourist visa will be changed to 90 days, not 60 + 30 day renewal. Which is the correct answer?

[Acharn]

I would like to know why all the people living in thailand on a so called permanent basis do not become a citizen of Thailand and saves themselve the hazzle of forever obtaining vizas

RAMSEE, As a U.S. citizen, with a militar retired penison, I see one problem with this.

As I understand it, if I become a citizen of another country, I effectively give up my U.S. citizenship and also my military pension.. I may be wrong on this, but if that's the case, I would be crazy to become a citizen of Thailand. Regards, BD.

As another retired serviceman I used to worry about that, but over the last twenty years or so the Supreme Court ruled that you don't lose your U.S. citizenship unless you make a specific, public anouncement (in writing) that you mean to do so. I've read that the Department of Justice had decided, for all practical purposes, that even if you did that they had to consider that the renunciation could be cancelled, so would not attempt to withdraw *anyone's* citizenship (if you remember, Oswald [the guy who shot Kennedy] publicly renounced his U.S. citizenship when he went to live in the U.S.S.R., but was permitted to return as a U.S. citizen and bring his wife, a Soviet citizen).

The only reason I don't try to get Thai citizenship is that I think it would cost a lot of money (as I understand it you have to get Permanent Residence first -- 200,000+ baht). I'd still be a U.S. citizen and able to draw my pension. Although it's against Thai law to have dual citizenship, if I submit a legal renunciation of my U.S. citizenship, it's legal and accepted by the Thai government but not accepted by the U.S. government, who would still consider me a U.S. citizen even though the Thai government would say I'm not. Confusing?

[dsfbrit]

Pattaya People newspaper explained the new rule relating to funds for so called Retirement Extensions by saying that you will no longer receive your retirement visa on the same day, but will have to return after 90 days after all relevant checks have been carried out. During this time the 800,000 baht should still remain in the account.

In my experience, this is in line with the requirement for the Marriage extension, which I get each year and have to go back to immigration on up to 3 separate occasions on 30 day extensions totalling 90 days to get my final Marriage extension.

Last year after about 6 weeks into the process I had withdrawn about 70000 baht for living expenses etc… and was called by the lady at Pattaya Immigration and told she had been contacted by Bangkok Immigration and told me to replace the 70000 baht immediately. Bangkok Immigration had obviously phoned my bank. I didn’t bother arguing my point that the money was in the account on the first day I visited Immigration and this was money for living expenses – I never argue with Immigration – I still had about 20000 baht I had not spent and I just transferred some more cash from the UK.

This year I have left the 400,000 baht in the bank until the end of the process.

I was planning to switch to the Retirement extension next year as it was appealing that I could get a visa on the same day. I would appreciate any feedback on peoples experiences over the next few weeks on this.

[raslin]

what level of pension do you need to negate the need for cash in bank ?

65,000 baht/month

So where did this come from? Two years ago it was increased from 20,000 to 40,000/ month

Roger in Surin

[dsfbrit]

I'm beginning to feel that it's not really worth the effort to stay in Thailand.

Perhaps I'll chage my mind, but right now, I'm thinking the whole family is going to be moving, next time I get a contract outside Thailand.

You are right about all mentioned facts.

I am also tired after 12 years about:

unqualified sale staff, painters, electricians, mechanics etc.

poor services in banks and condo managments etc.

tired of signing useless photocopies for any applications

dirty, damaged streets and rubish public parks

the no maintance mentality

high bills such as UBC, Electricity

poor train system and horror public bus ghetto, old dirty taxis etc.

...

I don't feel very welcome here.

Thats how I felt in the UK, when I had my last trip 'home' to England. In the UK it was also raining at the time as well!! I dont mean to be 'flaming' you or whatever, but really take a trip back to your home country for just a month and I am sure these visa rules changes and Thailand will seem quite pleasant by comparison.

all the best

[andrewryan108]

On my way in soon with double entry , 60 days tourist a time. i had wanted to get a 30 day extension each time, do one visa run, for a period of 179 days , which meshed exactly with my ticket.

Does anyone know if thirty day extensions will be available to me, or do I need to do 3-4 visa runs instead of of one, and hope that the rules will allow me to get 30 days on the last two or three visa runs (reason why it is 4 is on each run you lose a day if you leave the country and come back in on the same day)? If extensions are no longer available, even to people with the previous generation 60 day visas,

....Is there anything that I can say to get a 90 day stay instead of the 60 stamped on the way in at the airport? (pls give me words, I am not too bright at the best of times, practically retarded after 24 hours on planes)?

or ..... alternatively is there anything that I can say at immigration suan phu bangkok to get them to somehow change 60 days to 90 days?

thanks,

ryan

incidentally Canada website still showing tourist visas as being 60 days a piece

Edited October 3, 2006 by andrewryan108

[sriracha john]

I would like to know why all the people living in thailand on a so called permanent basis do not become a citizen of Thailand and saves themselve the hazzle of forever obtaining vizas

ramsee

Newbie

Group: Members

Posts: 1

Joined: 2004-03-18

first post after 31 months on thaivisa...

oh well, look forward to your next post in mid-2009...

by the by, Thai citizenship is an extremely difficult process

[wilko]

Well ...I'm a little confused...I've chosen this time to change jobs!

So how do I stand as regards my Non im "B"?

I've got all the necessary permits for the current job and the new (large) company will do all the rest. there is a 2 day gap between jobs.

Will I have to leave the country to get a new Non im "B"? If so where will I have to go?

[chatette]

The point made by Marquess is spot on. Regardless of legitimacy, you will always be just a foreigner in Thailand unless you take citizenship. And getting that is without process. I qualify and lodged application 7 years ago but nothing has happened. The whole thing is so open ended. During this time, I spent several years working in Belgium. Regardless of marital ties, I was one year short of qualifying for Belgian citizenship based on length of residence. A colleague moved from Germany to Australia for work 3 years ago. She now has permanent residence. Again no marital ties. Meantime, back in Thailand, the whole ridiculous annual process and all that comes in between continues over and again after 10 years of marriage. Primative.

[keekwai]

I think the extension of the Tourist Visa to 90 days has simplified things enourmously. No more hassles with extensions.

Bugger the 30 day border hops. I'm sure the expense of doing 1 Tourist Visa Run every 3 months would be cheaper than 3 border hops in 3 months .. and less hassle to boot! I think a border hop to Cambodia with one of the visa run buses costs around 2000 Baht (never used them) .. thats 6000 baht every 3 months. How much to pop down to Penang ONCE every 3 months for a Tourist Visa? Anyone got the figures?

Just use Tourist Visas. 4 visa runs a year every 3 months. Simple.

Edited October 3, 2006 by keekwai

[andy1308]

Hi,

Like others here I cannot see the new rules affecting the condo market in any way. Anyone lucky enough to be in the position of considering buying a condo isn't going to be affected by this. My evidence - the number of people at last weekend's House and Condo show. There's certainly no slow-down at all in my opinion.

Andy.

[Naam]

"if she has an ID card and Tabien Baan she could apply for a Thai Passport in the US and use that to enter Thailand, then there is no need for a visa for her"

the U.S. does not allow dual citizenship as far as Thailand is concerned.

[bmanly]

A lot has been said on this thread about so called "Cheap Charlies" and "Backpackers". Firstly backpackers are highly motivated real travellers who just prefer to spend less on accommodation and more on travel, they live for travel and to see as much as possible. In Australia the department of tourism has found that the average backpacker that comes to Australia will spend between $6,000 to $8,000 on their visit. The Australian Government is well aware of the contribution backpackers make to the economy. They do spend money and boost the local ecomnomy and the Government and local businesses encourage it. If a place like Australia wants, needs and encourages this type of tourism why can't Thailand be showing the same type of support?

Secondly the "CheapCharlies", some have commented that they live on 25,000 to 30,000 baht per Month. That is 3 times more than what the average Thai family lives off. Surely then if this person is spending 3 times more per month then this must be of benefit to the Thai economy. I am not one of these people but I do know many expats who live on this sort of money and live very well and support their Thai partner as well. I think the contibution to the Thai economy of these 2 groups of spenders is highly underated, cheers.

[Thailand-Sawadee]

That is so sad that you may have to resort to those mesaures. It appears that the Thai Government has had it with farangs. After all this years I guess they all have enough of our money to now kick us out so they can go back to the way it was. I admit there are are lot of things in the country that the farang messed up and changed in the way the culture once was but now we all have to suffer.

I'm beginning to feel that it's not really worth the effort to stay in Thailand.

Recently I've been thinking about the reasons for being in Bangkok and I can't really come up with a unique selling point!

If you want to hang out in pool bars with lots of willing women who don't speak much english, then Bangkok is great. It gets boring after a while (several years ago!)

Restaurants serving western-style food are pretty poor or very expensive (even by western standards), Thai restaurants are blandly luxurious or great food but austere surroundings.

Entertainment? - Cinema? ummm....golf?

Work environment - don't get me started!

Traffic and cost of cars?

I'm tired of not being able to get an original version of movies, CDs and computer software, tired of getting sold stuff where the pacakaging has been opened already. Tired of buying fake Polo shirts, or getting tailored suits that fit worse than M&S off the shelf. Tired of pressing the 'guaranteed 60 second' button in McDonalds (has anyone ever been served in 60 seconds!?)

Tired of reporting every 3 months to say that I'm still with my wife and kids. Tired of signing all rights away.

Perhaps I'm just jaded, but now that I just spent a bundle of cash to set up an IT consultancy company over here, it seems I might find it difficult to get a work permit to work there! I wasn't planning on any more assignments in Thailand anyway, but I need the WP and salary so I can continue to live with my wife and kids in our house (in her name).

Perhaps I'll chage my mind, but right now, I'm thinking the whole family is going to be moving, next time I get a contract outside Thailand.

[aznyron]

@SCRATT UA.

there is no way even if you have money

this are clear and solid rules in many other countrys

for example MALAYSIA

www.imo.gov.my

you are below 50 and have money, you get 10 year RESIDENCE VISA without hassle, money under table or however.

bring 3 M baht you get

--free import of your car

--free householdgood

--you entiteld for buy land and house

--10 year RESIDENCE VISA

--can receive intrestincomming ( no 0 rule for foreigner)

everything you can apply with clear rules!

Question I am here on a non imm.O visa I am over 50 I get a pension more than 65000 bhat a month I have small amount of money in thai bank less than 150.000 baht Now what can Malaysia do for me I have a new pick up 2 months old I am tired of all these changes of rules and most immigration officer get the rules confused also and make mistakes it would be so simple to issue a six month visa for people who want to live here and be able to renew it for additional 6 months at any immigration office with out imposing any number of renewals just take the money most of us have no problem with paying visa fees it just the BS runs to border towns that annoy most of us as for tourist visa give a 90 with out the BS of border crossings and let them renew for additional 90 days at any immig. office and charge a fee it would save a lot of paper work and make it easier for both the Thai immigration officer and the visitor to Thailand I am sure many who read this article will come up with a better idea this is only a quick solotion to a simple problem

[Beachbunny]

I would like to know why all the people living in thailand on a so called permanent basis do not become a citizen of Thailand and saves themselve the hazzle of forever obtaining vizas

Simple , cos its virtually impossible to get one as a foreigner

Plus it costs 100,000 baht. I don't recall that we paid anything when my thai husband got his citzenship overseas.

beachbunny

[RalphS]

After reading 16 pages of very interesting postings, I still have a question. About the required 800k in a Thai bank account, is it there basically there to show that you won't be a burden to them or do you have to show that you are actually using money from that account for your support?

[lapamita]

maybe their is an othe part...................

i am owning condos here in thailand, the first ten years i came to thailand my parents never come here. the last 4 years yes. last year my mother bought one condo here, and is very upset now.

because she was only buying here, because i stayed here, and of course the main point the cheap livingcosts,no crime and firendly people. but to her fit other countrys as well.

so she want to stay here 6 month per year, but she not styed here when i have to go, ........

so when i have to go, there are already 2 more!

and alreday they are thinking negativly since i told them about what happend here (( comment oh if we know before, we woudnt bought there.................)

but another point................

when i stay in thailand myy average spending is about 80.000 THB a month,

my parents spending here ,is much much more less for 2 people, the first time they came here not,,, but now................they enjoying sitting in the condos terrace,daytime they went to the beaches, and eat some thaifood, and sometimes in foreign restaurant. when not included tours they make to hongkong,sgp,bali or what ever their daily spending is bellow 1000 thb together....

my parents are wealthy,,, but this not mean heavy spending like taxsin want it.

look at spain,, many famillys ,rich ,go shopping in discounters andmaybe go eat one time a week

THE AVERAGE SINGLE TOURIST WHO COME 2, 4,8 WEEKS OR LONGER SPEND MUCH MUCH MORE HERE THAN A SO CALLED QUALITYTOURIST..........................

and however the single, what he after invest, in however waht ( a nice house for thailady///) is even not counted here.................

[Noel]

Question I am here on a non imm.O visa I am over 50 I get a pension more than 65000 bhat a month I have small amount of money in thai bank less than 150.000 baht Now what can Malaysia do for me I have a new pick up 2 months old I am tired of all these changes of rules and most immigration officer get the rules confused also and make mistakes it would be so simple to issue a six month visa for people who want to live here and be able to renew it for additional 6 months at any immigration office with out imposing any number of renewals just take the money most of us have no problem with paying visa fees it just the BS runs to border towns that annoy most of us as for tourist visa give a 90 with out the BS of border crossings and let them renew for additional 90 days at any immig. office and charge a fee it would save a lot of paper work and make it easier for both the Thai immigration officer and the visitor to Thailand I am sure many who read this article will come up with a better idea this is only a quick solotion to a simple problem

All as you need do is get a letter from your embassy certifying your pension. You can then apply for a twelve month extension on the grounds of retirement.

There would then be no need for you to be annoyed by the "BS runs to border towns".

I really cannot see your problem...

[aznyron]

I would like to know why all the people living in thailand on a so called permanent basis do not become a citizen of Thailand and saves themselve the hazzle of forever obtaining vizas

Because they aren't eligible? Because they can't afford it? Because they don't want dual citizenship?

You don't just decide to become a Thai citizen and wander down to immigration one day and tell them so. Same thing for the PR, permanent resident visa. Many are simply not eligible. For example, my husband and I are here to retire, and will be getting our proper visas when the dust settles a bit. We will never have the years on an appropriate visa to apply for PR if, as I have read here, the retirement visa is ineligible. I would cheerfully pay Thai taxes if I thought it would help me get PR, but I have been told Thailand does not tax foreign pensions.

Please correct me if I am wrong. The day Thailand taxes my pension I am out of here I don't pay tax to my own country on my pension I am not apying tax to a country which does not welcome me the way it should

[BlackJack]

he also forgets that it was the usa british and austarlians who nurtured the repugnant sex trade that has so restricted the countries development and fostered its somewhat negative image amongst so many.still producing 60% of foreign male "tourism"

leading to an horific incidence of aids made worse by the farang ignorance that to be active is safe and the closet homosexual to carry the disease to his spouse or partner elsewhere.

i so want to live here and a few rules may need to be adhered to but lets hope a new generation of long stay and respectful farang will help turn this glorious country around.

hey dude the thai's were selling it a long time before ol' whitey arrived

check out how they were selling it to the Japanese during the war for loads more than we pay now

stick to the subject matter please

[bmanly]

After reading 16 pages of very interesting postings, I still have a question. About the required 800k in a Thai bank account, is it there basically there to show that you won't be a burden to them or do you have to show that you are actually using money from that account for your support?

It is suppose the be the amount they deem that a farang would spend in one year for all expenses including health insurance. Yes they do not want any farang to be a burden to their society, that is the reasoning behind it. Now if you don't spend that amount during the year it doesn't matter it just has to be topped up at the right time for renewal.

[pap]

Hi,

Like others here I cannot see the new rules affecting the condo market in any way. Anyone lucky enough to be in the position of considering buying a condo isn't going to be affected by this. My evidence - the number of people at last weekend's House and Condo show. There's certainly no slow-down at all in my opinion.

Andy.

I respectfully disagree with you. This change by itself would have had consequences but with the current situation with the government it is one more issue that foreigners must now consider. By itself it is not an insurmountable issue. Start combining other factors and you will see this does not encourage business.

Thailand for the time being has to be listed as risky investing in any sort of property markets until the dust settles. Time will tell. You probably won't notice for a few months what the effects of this are. Effects do not immediately manifest. Thailand has huge potential...but they have to do certain things to realize that potential. They are not currently giving signals that are encouraging. At least not yet. But give them time to decide how they really want to proceed.

[lopburi3]

"if she has an ID card and Tabien Baan she could apply for a Thai Passport in the US and use that to enter Thailand, then there is no need for a visa for her"

the U.S. does not allow dual citizenship as far as Thailand is concerned.

The US, like many countries, does not prevent dual citizenship. A Thai can have both Thai and US citizenship; and in thousands of cases do.

[OlRedEyes]

Why are they shooting themselves in the foot, yet again?

Because they do it so well?

[RalphS]

...Now if you don't spend that amount during the year it doesn't matter it just has to be topped up at the right time for renewal.

Thanks, that finally answers my question.

Ralph