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Samui dead!


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I can't find who said Lomprayah has a new root, but here it is...

Nathon%252520Nov%2525202015-134.jpg

Some thing I notice daily, there are more and more "white skins" around the island.... it's not as dead as some would like us to believe! rolleyes.giftongue.png

For mini bus service from Lomprayah Nathon, these are the rates, that take people to their hotel/ resort ...

Nathon%252520Nov%2525202015-143.jpg

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Arrivals in Samui are the highest they have ever been. It's the kind of tourists that is changing.

Many more tourists now are Chinese, Russian, or Boutique hotel guests. They never leave their resort while here. They stay in the hotel bar drinking. They eat in the hotel restaurant, and they go on tours organised through the hotel.

So businesses located in the tourism precincts are struggling, while resorts are making a fortune.

You could be right.

This is my 10th year coming to Lamai and I have never seen the bars so empty. They also seem to stay open as long as there are punters.

I was walking back at 0330 last night and loads were still open with music playing.

Definitely a change of tourist type though I am sure that will change next month. Speaking to a bar owner, they all seem to be banking on a good Dec and Jan.

The sort of western tourist that used to stay in cheap resorts ( 300 night ) and went to bars at night is not likely to be paying the high prices that are endemic now. I used to work with a Dr that holidayed in LOS but would never be seen dead in a Lamai bar beer, and I think that is probably the sort that mainly goes now. Of course the Asian tourists never go or went to bar beers anyway, and I doubt the Russians are keen on them either. So far as the bar beer sector is concerned, they should expect to have not many customers anymore. Can't say I'm really sorry, as the prices the girls charged were excessive compared to Pattaya or Patong.

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  • 2 weeks later...

When I first went to Samui I stayed in Charlie Hut or another bungalow for a pittance and had the time of my life. Within a few years it was ruined. I don't think I have been since 2002. Can't imagine what it is like now.

Most of it is still very pleasant thumbsup.gif ... many of us enjoy living here and thousands still enjoy visiting Samui and the the surrounding islands, every year, amazing I know, but it's true!

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When I first went to Samui I stayed in Charlie Hut or another bungalow for a pittance and had the time of my life. Within a few years it was ruined. I don't think I have been since 2002. Can't imagine what it is like now.

It's depending what you expect from a place like Samui.

If you wish to live in the past like "good old backpacker hippie-style days" at Charlie's Hut and the like, then "yes", Samui has changed to be ruined - by the way, Charlie's Hut is "still going strong" at Samui, same owners, but moved to different place - but so may every popular place be after 25-30 years progress; I recall the old pictures of a beautiful beach with a small fishermen village in a bay south of Bangkok...whistling.gif

However, if you look at Samui as a place to stay more permanent, it has IMO changed to the (much) better since 2002 - and 2001, when I came here first time and stayed in primitive backpacker huts - and even with the number of rants on the lists some folks posts, most of that stuff have actually improved since over the years; however there are more guests and therefore more traffic on the Ring Road, but compared to Phuket, Hua Hin or 2nd Road in Pattaya I can easily live with it...smile.png

And not to get off topic, the resort next to me at Maenam Beach was full all November, and is still loaded with guests like high season arrived early instead of the Monsoon...

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"backpackers" always used to refer to young people on a strict budget looking for everything cheap.I think a thing of the past.Today's young 'uns like their i phone,i pad,skype etc..............its essential to call mum and dad daily via skype and post on face book things that you are doing as you post.

From where i sit( an aged traveller from the 70's) it's kinda sad,but i'm sure they have just as much fun.

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i was in Samui last week and have never seen it so quiet for the beginning of Dec

I got to to Seatran ferry port at Donsak at 12.30 expecting a wait of probably an hour.

Could not believe it only 4 cars and a couple of trucks waiting.

Only saw about 6 falang on the ferry.

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i was in Samui last week and have never seen it so quiet for the beginning of Dec

I got to to Seatran ferry port at Donsak at 12.30 expecting a wait of probably an hour.

Could not believe it only 4 cars and a couple of trucks waiting.

Only saw about 6 falang on the ferry.

Its is desperately despite what some say but don't forget that at this time of year, if the weather is bad, a lot of tourists with prior intentions of visiting samui will redirect to the Andaman side, which i think has happened this year. Thats not to say that tourism isn't down because it obviously is, but the continued heavy rain has just made it worse for Samui

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When I first went to Samui I stayed in Charlie Hut or another bungalow for a pittance and had the time of my life. Within a few years it was ruined. I don't think I have been since 2002. Can't imagine what it is like now.

It's depending what you expect from a place like Samui.

If you wish to live in the past like "good old backpacker hippie-style days" at Charlie's Hut and the like, then "yes", Samui has changed to be ruined - by the way, Charlie's Hut is "still going strong" at Samui, same owners, but moved to different place - but so may every popular place be after 25-30 years progress; I recall the old pictures of a beautiful beach with a small fishermen village in a bay south of Bangkok...whistling.gif

However, if you look at Samui as a place to stay more permanent, it has IMO changed to the (much) better since 2002 - and 2001, when I came here first time and stayed in primitive backpacker huts - and even with the number of rants on the lists some folks posts, most of that stuff have actually improved since over the years; however there are more guests and therefore more traffic on the Ring Road, but compared to Phuket, Hua Hin or 2nd Road in Pattaya I can easily live with it...smile.png

And not to get off topic, the resort next to me at Maenam Beach was full all November, and is still loaded with guests like high season arrived early instead of the Monsoon...

The significant word is Mae Nam. That beach was much less ruined than Chaweng and Lamai last time I went, and is probably still reminiscent of the heyday of Samui in the 90s. You can't build zillion star resorts and horizon pools end to end and still expect the same numbers of visitors as when there were many cheaper places to stay. Thailand just doesn't have the infrastructure to attract the really rich people. They will go to places like the Maldives.

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When I first went to Samui I stayed in Charlie Hut or another bungalow for a pittance and had the time of my life. Within a few years it was ruined. I don't think I have been since 2002. Can't imagine what it is like now.

It's depending what you expect from a place like Samui.

If you wish to live in the past like "good old backpacker hippie-style days" at Charlie's Hut and the like, then "yes", Samui has changed to be ruined - by the way, Charlie's Hut is "still going strong" at Samui, same owners, but moved to different place - but so may every popular place be after 25-30 years progress; I recall the old pictures of a beautiful beach with a small fishermen village in a bay south of Bangkok...whistling.gif

However, if you look at Samui as a place to stay more permanent, it has IMO changed to the (much) better since 2002 - and 2001, when I came here first time and stayed in primitive backpacker huts - and even with the number of rants on the lists some folks posts, most of that stuff have actually improved since over the years; however there are more guests and therefore more traffic on the Ring Road, but compared to Phuket, Hua Hin or 2nd Road in Pattaya I can easily live with it...smile.png

And not to get off topic, the resort next to me at Maenam Beach was full all November, and is still loaded with guests like high season arrived early instead of the Monsoon...

The significant word is Mae Nam. That beach was much less ruined than Chaweng and Lamai last time I went, and is probably still reminiscent of the heyday of Samui in the 90s. You can't build zillion star resorts and horizon pools end to end and still expect the same numbers of visitors as when there were many cheaper places to stay. Thailand just doesn't have the infrastructure to attract the really rich people. They will go to places like the Maldives.

What’s so outstanding about Maldives’ infrastructure..?
I tend to disagree, based on the tiny part of Thailand I know, whish is loaded with 5-stars, and from my modest view, where I still believe people who can afford to spend $2,000 and up for sleeping one night in a beach bungalow have some level of funds – candlelight dinner-for-two at “W” I saw advertised for 16,000 baht, it’s half-price off-season bargain, but that of course includes a bottle of house red wine – believe service-charge and tax comes on top, as usual...
On Samui several-star resorts have replaced former backpacker places and number of visitors has still gone up each year – that’s why in my opinion the audience has changed, not less visitors.
By the way, Chaweng seems nicely packed for this time of tourist season – or rather lack of same – but again, different kind of audience than 200-baht huts and fried-rice-chicken-with-free-water from a street kitchen; seems like today’s youth are 10-fold spenders with 2,000 baht-a-day accommodation budget and rather 300 than 30 for a meal. Free market adjust to where business is, so if more-and-more trendy cafés, which can charge 100 baht and up for a coffee, opens over the years and stay in business, it’s because there’s a demand.
By the way, the “Food Mart” in Central Festival, which I thought would be something like in BigC and Tesco with affordable dishes, they charge 200-300 baht for what seems like the same kind of stuff – cheaper (and better) to dine in some of the restaurants the other end of the mall...
(Am I becoming a "cheap Charlie" in my mature days..?blink.png)
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By the way, the Food Mart in Central Festival, which I thought would be something like in BigC and Tesco with affordable dishes, they charge 200-300 baht for what seems like the same kind of stuff cheaper (and better) to dine in some of the restaurants the other end of the mall...

(Am I becoming a "cheap Charlie" in my mature days..?blink.png)

They got a Chiang Mai stall there now with Khao Soi Gai for 90 baht and Nam Prick Ong for 60 baht.

Excellent although expensive, Khao Soi Gai should be 50 baht.

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When I first went to Samui I stayed in Charlie Hut or another bungalow for a pittance and had the time of my life. Within a few years it was ruined. I don't think I have been since 2002. Can't imagine what it is like now.

It's depending what you expect from a place like Samui.

If you wish to live in the past like "good old backpacker hippie-style days" at Charlie's Hut and the like, then "yes", Samui has changed to be ruined - by the way, Charlie's Hut is "still going strong" at Samui, same owners, but moved to different place - but so may every popular place be after 25-30 years progress; I recall the old pictures of a beautiful beach with a small fishermen village in a bay south of Bangkok...whistling.gif

However, if you look at Samui as a place to stay more permanent, it has IMO changed to the (much) better since 2002 - and 2001, when I came here first time and stayed in primitive backpacker huts - and even with the number of rants on the lists some folks posts, most of that stuff have actually improved since over the years; however there are more guests and therefore more traffic on the Ring Road, but compared to Phuket, Hua Hin or 2nd Road in Pattaya I can easily live with it...smile.png

And not to get off topic, the resort next to me at Maenam Beach was full all November, and is still loaded with guests like high season arrived early instead of the Monsoon...

The significant word is Mae Nam. That beach was much less ruined than Chaweng and Lamai last time I went, and is probably still reminiscent of the heyday of Samui in the 90s. You can't build zillion star resorts and horizon pools end to end and still expect the same numbers of visitors as when there were many cheaper places to stay. Thailand just doesn't have the infrastructure to attract the really rich people. They will go to places like the Maldives.

What’s so outstanding about Maldives’ infrastructure..?
I tend to disagree, based on the tiny part of Thailand I know, whish is loaded with 5-stars, and from my modest view, where I still believe people who can afford to spend $2,000 and up for sleeping one night in a beach bungalow have some level of funds – candlelight dinner-for-two at “W” I saw advertised for 16,000 baht, it’s half-price off-season bargain, but that of course includes a bottle of house red wine – believe service-charge and tax comes on top, as usual...
On Samui several-star resorts have replaced former backpacker places and number of visitors has still gone up each year – that’s why in my opinion the audience has changed, not less visitors.
By the way, Chaweng seems nicely packed for this time of tourist season – or rather lack of same – but again, different kind of audience than 200-baht huts and fried-rice-chicken-with-free-water from a street kitchen; seems like today’s youth are 10-fold spenders with 2,000 baht-a-day accommodation budget and rather 300 than 30 for a meal. Free market adjust to where business is, so if more-and-more trendy cafés, which can charge 100 baht and up for a coffee, opens over the years and stay in business, it’s because there’s a demand.
By the way, the “Food Mart” in Central Festival, which I thought would be something like in BigC and Tesco with affordable dishes, they charge 200-300 baht for what seems like the same kind of stuff – cheaper (and better) to dine in some of the restaurants the other end of the mall...
(Am I becoming a "cheap Charlie" in my mature days..?blink.png)

Not to disagree with you, but IMO anyone that spends 16,000 baht for dinner needs to be seeing a psychiatrist- it's also exceedingly antisocial. No doubt the waiting staff, having to live on their 300 baht a day wages would rather stick the knife in the rich person's back than by the plate!

I was having candlelit dinners on the sand on Chaweng 25 years ago, and it only cost about 100 baht each. Yes, it costs more now to provide a dinner, but not 15,800 baht more

You may be correct about today's youth having a 2,000 baht accommodation budget, but I'd like to know where they get that sort of money. Even at 50 and working in a professional job I never earned that much money. When I was a youth, I couldn't even afford to travel.

BTW, I disagree that it's a "free market" that dictates the current state of affairs on the beaches of LOS. IMO it's people ignorant or uncaring about the environment that pick hotels from a brochure in a travel agency that populate the resorts on their two weeks holiday in the sun. You may not have noticed, but travel agents don't sell holidays in Charlie's Hut type places, only in beach destroying resorts with horizon pools. It's a minority that travel independently nowadays.

As for older ex backpackers- rather than seek to recreate their adventures in cheap places of their youth, they want the lux rooms and flash restaurants, so I guess the environment is on a hiding to nothing.

Oh well, as long as the Bkk businessmen get rich, who cares if the wonderful beaches of 30 years ago have vanished forever.

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By the way, the Food Mart in Central Festival, which I thought would be something like in BigC and Tesco with affordable dishes, they charge 200-300 baht for what seems like the same kind of stuff cheaper (and better) to dine in some of the restaurants the other end of the mall...

(Am I becoming a "cheap Charlie" in my mature days..?blink.png)

They got a Chiang Mai stall there now with Khao Soi Gai for 90 baht and Nam Prick Ong for 60 baht.

Excellent although expensive, Khao Soi Gai should be 50 baht.

Thanks, an alternative then to delicious chicken steak with pepper source, ff and salad in Santa Fee for 99 baht...wink.png

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By the way, the Food Mart in Central Festival, which I thought would be something like in BigC and Tesco with affordable dishes, they charge 200-300 baht for what seems like the same kind of stuff cheaper (and better) to dine in some of the restaurants the other end of the mall...

(Am I becoming a "cheap Charlie" in my mature days..?blink.png)

They got a Chiang Mai stall there now with Khao Soi Gai for 90 baht and Nam Prick Ong for 60 baht.

Excellent although expensive, Khao Soi Gai should be 50 baht.

Thanks, an alternative then to delicious chicken steak with pepper source, ff and salad in Santa Fee for 99 baht...wink.png

It amazes me how popular Santa Fe is with Thai's.... it's got to be the most tasteless food anywhere! bah.giftongue.png

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Judging by the number of "white wobblers" on their motorbikes on the road to Nathon today, things are starting to pick up ... thumbsup.gif

Nathon town was also bizzy with tourists along the main street ....

The resort next to me has perked up in the last few days.... ... mostly europeans so far.... wink.png

They are starting to come.... that will make lots of people happy! ... the weather seems to be co-operating to.... thumbsup.gif

Koh Tao daily trips busy too with a lot of Chinese tourists ... the Marine Park is closed for 45 days (I forget the reopening date, but soon!....)

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  • 3 weeks later...

In case you haven't noticed..

There is a recession in Europe/Russia/N. America for several years now..

..and it's starting to show.

Its not a lack of cash that's keeping some of us away...its value for money.

Where do you go to obtain "value for money" ?

I split my time now and live now upcountry in Thailand and Siem Reap in Cambodia.

I now go to Hanoi and Halong bay in Vietnam and Siem Reap in Cambodia. Decent priced air flights to both with a number of budget airlines, cheap priced food, drink, and luxury accommodation for 1300-1500 a night. 15 days free entry stamp on arrival at Hanoi airport for UK and European nationals (except Republic of Ireland who still need a visa), which they say will be increased to 30 days shortly.

Hanoi is vibrant, buzzing, plenty action. Halong bay they are spending tens and tens of millions creating the best beaches, party bars on the beach, funfairs, skytrains, seaplane trips and a mix of high and medium priced hotels, cheap seafood, spotlessly clean roads and sea water etc.

Siem Reap, same story,very few hookers,( Phnom Penn for that) plenty of tourists from backpackers to high end, busy town and a large beer is $2.50 which is 87 baht approximately. You don't need taxis, you can walk everywhere but the tuk tuk takes you home for no more than $2 usually $1 to most places. A full English breakfast is about $3-$4 ( 105-140 baht ) in a decent bar/cafe.

Yearly visa is $275 no 90 day reporting, no re-entry visas, no 800,000 baht in the bank and you come and go as you please. Work permit to work in yoiur own bar/restaurant unhindered by authorities is $100 a year.

My Samui, Phuket and Pattaya days are now out the window. I loved Pataya mid-nineties.

I was in Kata beach, Phuket looking at a place six months ago, same old, same old. cheating taxis, lousy looking hookers and silly prices for everything

I was checking out this forum for information as two friends asking me who are visiting in early May, as to whether to hit Samui or Koh Chang.

It sounds like Samui is now just a concrete jungle with a beach??

Last time I was in Samui was very early in the year 2000/2001 but I have heard it has changed a great deal.

I honestly don't like the sound of what I am hearing after an expensive Bangkok air flight to get there and then 500 baht taxis!

! I think I will steer them to Koh Chang and then on to Siem Reap.

Even Bangkok these days in a scabby scruffy outside table top beer bar in Patpong, they want 130 baht for a small bottle of beer listening to crap copy VDOs on the TV and ' hostesses ' the wrong side of 40 or early 50s begging a ' lady drink ' and wanting a tip for taking the top of a bottle of beer! No thanks!

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In case you haven't noticed..

There is a recession in Europe/Russia/N. America for several years now..

..and it's starting to show.

Its not a lack of cash that's keeping some of us away...its value for money.

Where do you go to obtain "value for money" ?

I split my time now and live now upcountry in Thailand and Siem Reap in Cambodia.

I now go to Hanoi and Halong bay in Vietnam and Siem Reap in Cambodia. Decent priced air flights to both with a number of budget airlines, cheap priced food, drink, and luxury accommodation for 1300-1500 a night. 15 days free entry stamp on arrival at Hanoi airport for UK and European nationals (except Republic of Ireland who still need a visa), which they say will be increased to 30 days shortly.

Hanoi is vibrant, buzzing, plenty action. Halong bay they are spending tens and tens of millions creating the best beaches, party bars on the beach, funfairs, skytrains, seaplane trips and a mix of high and medium priced hotels, cheap seafood, spotlessly clean roads and sea water etc.

Siem Reap, same story,very few hookers,( Phnom Penn for that) plenty of tourists from backpackers to high end, busy town and a large beer is $2.50 which is 87 baht approximately. You don't need taxis, you can walk everywhere but the tuk tuk takes you home for no more than $2 usually $1 to most places. A full English breakfast is about $3-$4 ( 105-140 baht ) in a decent bar/cafe.

Yearly visa is $275 no 90 day reporting, no re-entry visas, no 800,000 baht in the bank and you come and go as you please. Work permit to work in yoiur own bar/restaurant unhindered by authorities is $100 a year.

My Samui, Phuket and Pattaya days are now out the window. I loved Pataya mid-nineties.

I was in Kata beach, Phuket looking at a place six months ago, same old, same old. cheating taxis, lousy looking hookers and silly prices for everything

I was checking out this forum for information as two friends asking me who are visiting in early May, as to whether to hit Samui or Koh Chang.

It sounds like Samui is now just a concrete jungle with a beach??

Last time I was in Samui was very early in the year 2000/2001 but I have heard it has changed a great deal.

I honestly don't like the sound of what I am hearing after an expensive Bangkok air flight to get there and then 500 baht taxis!

! I think I will steer them to Koh Chang and then on to Siem Reap.

Even Bangkok these days in a scabby scruffy outside table top beer bar in Patpong, they want 130 baht for a small bottle of beer listening to crap copy VDOs on the TV and ' hostesses ' the wrong side of 40 or early 50s begging a ' lady drink ' and wanting a tip for taking the top of a bottle of beer! No thanks!

Halong bay they are spending tens and tens of millions creating the best beaches, party bars on the beach, funfairs, skytrains, seaplane trips and a mix of high and medium priced hotels, cheap seafood, spotlessly clean roads and sea water etc.

I think I would absolutely hate it, BUT, at least they are making the effort to provide an attractive infrastructure for those that do like that sort of thing, unlike in Thailand where the infrastructure is built badly, is never fixed till it breaks, and even then not very well. Pattaya is the prime example- really bad infrastructure, but they keep telling themselves the rich people will come if they chase the bar girls away!

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I left three years ago and as much as I reminis about the wonderful massages, white sand beaches and cheap drink. I simply can not be bothered with a 28 hr flight for the filth, and madness. There are too many options closer, safer, and cleaner.

But in how many of those places will the ladies shout out "handsome man!" as you walk by? :)

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On Bali they shout "hey Boss" but that's fine because i don't listen to anybody yelling to me.

Bali is imo a much better place then Samui. Much more to do, more beautifull, cheaper, better food and they speak english.

Another plus is that i get a visa-stamp while we go there for a holiday and can do taxfree shopping.

Chaweng stinks and has very loud music ALL night long, also it's impossible to walk around on the sidewalks.

Flying from BKK to Samui costs almost the same as to Bali or Malaysia/Singapore. Also the lack of any law on Samui doesn't attract me.

We've been there several times but could use another holiday after coming back home in BKK.

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On Bali they shout "hey Boss" but that's fine because i don't listen to anybody yelling to me.

Bali is imo a much better place then Samui. Much more to do, more beautifull, cheaper, better food and they speak english.

Another plus is that i get a visa-stamp while we go there for a holiday and can do taxfree shopping.

Chaweng stinks and has very loud music ALL night long, also it's impossible to walk around on the sidewalks.

Flying from BKK to Samui costs almost the same as to Bali or Malaysia/Singapore. Also the lack of any law on Samui doesn't attract me.

We've been there several times but could use another holiday after coming back home in BKK.

Lot's of other places on Samui, other than Chawang, that thousands of people enjoy and keep coming back for.... to each his or her own....

There are lots of things to do here, but obviously some only see it from a bar stool...coffee1.gif

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On Bali they shout "hey Boss" but that's fine because i don't listen to anybody yelling to me.

Bali is imo a much better place then Samui. Much more to do, more beautifull, cheaper, better food and they speak english.

Another plus is that i get a visa-stamp while we go there for a holiday and can do taxfree shopping.

Chaweng stinks and has very loud music ALL night long, also it's impossible to walk around on the sidewalks.

Flying from BKK to Samui costs almost the same as to Bali or Malaysia/Singapore. Also the lack of any law on Samui doesn't attract me.

We've been there several times but could use another holiday after coming back home in BKK.

Lot's of other places on Samui, other than Chawang, that thousands of people enjoy and keep coming back for.... to each his or her own....

There are lots of things to do here, but obviously some only see it from a bar stool...coffee1.gif

I've been all over samui , took 1 hour or so biggrin.png

I did like chaweng-noi beach to swim, not the other chaweng because it had seaweed. Lamai is only girlybars. Bophut the sea is too deep too fast.

The green mango i've been and saw a huge fight. The rock which should look like genitals, the waterfall where you can't swim.

Most fun was just walking along the beach and being in the resorts. Haven't been in a bar except for eating or a quick drink.

It was just too crowded and that was during the tsunami i was there for the last time, 10 years ago. Now it must be more busy i guess. First time i was on Samui was 20 years ago.

So what lots of things can we do on Samui today?

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On Bali they shout "hey Boss" but that's fine because i don't listen to anybody yelling to me.

Bali is imo a much better place then Samui. Much more to do, more beautifull, cheaper, better food and they speak english.

Another plus is that i get a visa-stamp while we go there for a holiday and can do taxfree shopping.

Chaweng stinks and has very loud music ALL night long, also it's impossible to walk around on the sidewalks.

Flying from BKK to Samui costs almost the same as to Bali or Malaysia/Singapore. Also the lack of any law on Samui doesn't attract me.

We've been there several times but could use another holiday after coming back home in BKK.

Lot's of other places on Samui, other than Chawang, that thousands of people enjoy and keep coming back for.... to each his or her own....

There are lots of things to do here, but obviously some only see it from a bar stool...coffee1.gif

I've been all over samui , took 1 hour or so biggrin.png

I did like chaweng-noi beach to swim, not the other chaweng because it had seaweed. Lamai is only girlybars. Bophut the sea is too deep too fast.

The green mango i've been and saw a huge fight. The rock which should look like genitals, the waterfall where you can't swim.

Most fun was just walking along the beach and being in the resorts. Haven't been in a bar except for eating or a quick drink.

It was just too crowded and that was during the tsunami i was there for the last time, 10 years ago. Now it must be more busy i guess. First time i was on Samui was 20 years ago.

So what lots of things can we do on Samui today?

Shopping, eating at expensive restaurants, shopping, drinking at expensive bars, shopping, walking on the beach, shopping, taking expensive songtheaws somewhere, shopping, going to expensive nightclubs, shopping, tour of the highlands, shopping, visit national park, shopping.

Hey, you're the perfect tourist for Samui. Come back again next year.

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