US to return to South China Sea

[webfact]

US to return to South China Sea after warship visit

WASHINGTON: -- The US has said it plans to return to contested areas of the South China Sea, with a top security official saying there will be "more demonstrations" of freedom of navigation in the region.

US deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes made the comments on Monday.

An unnamed US official also told Reuters news agency that patrols would take place at least "twice a quarter".

The sailing of a US warship within an area claimed by China last week angered Beijing, which issued a warning.

The guided-missile destroyer USS Lassen breached the 12-nautical mile zone that China claims around the Subi and Mischief reefs in the Spratly archipelago.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34707166


-- BBC 2015-11-03

[Publicus]

SecDef Ashton Carter said yesterday the USN will conduct these freedom of navigation exercises at least once each quarter indefinitely. The regularity kills any claim the CCP Boyz in Beijing could make of sovereignty or a territorial sea in connection with the artificial islands.

The CCP Boyz meanwhile stiffarmed the International Court in the Hague that will hear the Philippines arguments Beijing is acting illegaly, calling the Court a flawed institution.

So, here we are.....

Disputed Artificial Islands in the South China Sea: the US finally calls China’s Bluff

The United States stuck to its word by openly challenging China over the artificial islands that the latter has been building in the South China Sea, while sending USS Lassen, the guided-missile destroyer, within the 12 nautical mile of one of the islands, without the prior approval from China on Tuesday.

USS Lassen DDG 82 guided missile destroyer in the South China Sea last week.

The US went on to say that it would to send more warships to the region in order to safeguard the virtue of the freedom of navigation.

There were reliable reports that the US was going to make this move for the past few weeks; the Chinese military, while sensing the inevitability, had warned that such a move would warrant a military response. So, the world was expecting to see a stand-off between the two military powers in the South China Sea; it, however, didn’t develop into one, because, on this occasion China just backed down, while resorting to condemning the move rather than responding in kind.

http://asiantribune.com/node/88114

[Jingthing]

Good idea.

China is being a bully and testing the waters.

No response equals total surrender.

[Publicus]

This guy is the chief of the PLA Navy and he wants to ram the next USN warship that enters the waters.

The CCP political admiral is a close student of the navy of the former USSR. He notes that in 1988 two Soviet Russian destroyers rammed a USN cruiser in the Black Sea and all that came of it was a protocol agreement between Washington and Moscow.

The good political party hack admiral might not be wise to expect the same kind of benevolent outcome given the stakes in this conflict are much greater than those in the Black Sea ever were.

Admiral Wu Shengli made the terrifying remark during talks between the US and Beijing

How Will China Respond In the South China Sea? Ask the Soviet Union

Think one word: Ramming.

Chinese Navy guided missile cruisers entering the South China Sea October 28, 2015.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-will-china-respond-the-south-china-sea-ask-the-soviet-14221

Edited November 3, 2015 by Publicus

[connda]

Power Projection. One of the navy's primary missions. It works well until it doesn't. The Brass does what the Brass is told. They implement foreign policy, they neither create it nor interpret it. So, sail they will, until there is an incident. Then all bets are off. What the heck, war is a great way to eliminate the 'useless eaters', to coin a phrase by Henry Kissinger.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb - Dr. Strangelove

Edited November 3, 2015 by connda

[Thorgal]

US should train and arm moderate Chinese rebels, even if they don't exist today...

[sgtsabai]

A day late and a dollar short, but better late than never. The US should have done this long ago, with the accompaniment of the other nations disputing China's illegal push to claim the entire China Seas area-9 mile line. China will not stop until stopped. They only respect power, i.e. the big stick backed by speak softly. Send a few F-18's for a little "fly-by" next time. Some interesting reads on what's happening there.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/02/china-s-dangerous-war-talk-about-the-south-china-sea.html?via=newsletter&source=DDAfternoon

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/naval/2015/11/02/china-lassen-destroyer-spratly-islands-south-china-sea-andrew-erickson-naval-war-college-militia-coast-guard-navy-confrontation-territorial-dispute/75070058/

http://cimsec.org/new-cimsec-series-on-irregular-forces-at-sea-not-merely-fishermen-shedding-light-on-chinas-maritime-militia/19624

http://www.realclearworld.com/articles/2015/11/02/about_time_the_us_made_a_stand_in_south_china_sea_111537.html

[TheCruncher]

Go get them Admiral Wu.

The location may be disputed by a few other Asian countries, but the last one who has anything to do with it is the self proclaimed policeman of the world.

[SheungWan]

Go get them Admiral Wu.

The location may be disputed by a few other Asian countries, but the last one who has anything to do with it is the self proclaimed policeman of the world.

The location 'may be disputed by a few other countries'? 'may be disputed'? What weasel words are these, which line up with China's CCP trouble-making in the region? I assume that both the interests of Vietnam and the Philippines are to be dumped to support anti-Americanism as no doubt also that of Taiwan and Japan. Without the USA China would be making even bigger mischief.

[chilli42]

Go get them Admiral Wu.

The location may be disputed by a few other Asian countries, but the last one who has anything to do with it is the self proclaimed policeman of the world.

The location 'may be disputed by a few other countries'? 'may be disputed'? What weasel words are these, which line up with China's CCP trouble-making in the region? I assume that both the interests of Vietnam and the Philippines are to be dumped to support anti-Americanism as no doubt also that of Taiwan and Japan. Without the USA China would be making even bigger mischief.

x2

[sgtsabai]

As some posters know, I have a lot of problems with America's so-called foreign policy, starting wars, blowing hell out of countries that never did anything to us, setting the mid-east on fire and overthrowing legitimate governments, etc. I've said for years, China has been laughing their respective ass off at our destruction of American economics, lives, and civil liberties while they were the enemy the entire time. The US has treaties with "other countries" and while we should not be the "world's policeman" it is up to America to keep the sea lanes open for all. The "China Seas" is not China's lake, it is the world's. If it falls to America to do the right thing, for once since Korea, then so be it, just don't screw around, do it. When China sends their maritime militia out to try and make the US avoid collision, blow 'em out of the water and let China try to blame the US as is their policy.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Maybe bomb a Chinese hospital...that'll show them we mean business.

[Srikcir]

US should train and arm moderate Chinese rebels, even if they don't exist today...

Uighurs?

[TheCruncher]

Go get them Admiral Wu.

The location may be disputed by a few other Asian countries, but the last one who has anything to do with it is the self proclaimed policeman of the world.

The location 'may be disputed by a few other countries'? 'may be disputed'? What weasel words are these, which line up with China's CCP trouble-making in the region? I assume that both the interests of Vietnam and the Philippines are to be dumped to support anti-Americanism as no doubt also that of Taiwan and Japan. Without the USA China would be making even bigger mischief.

I think Asian countries can take care of their problems themselves, and don't need the US for that, same as Iraq- Afghanistan or Syria don't need them.

When does the US gonna mind it's own business? Asia is far from their bed.

[sgtsabai]

Please, do you actually think Asian nations can stand against China? Ask the Lao people what they think about being a satalite of China. China wants all of Asia and if somebody doesn't help the Asian nations they will have it.

[Publicus]

US should train and arm moderate Chinese rebels, even if they don't exist today...

So now we see why no one here works in the White House or the Pentagon.

There are still some openings though in the Congress, especially with the new Speaker in charge.

US should train and arm moderate Chinese rebels, even if they don't exist today...

Uighurs?

The Uighurs do hate the CCP Chinese who in 1950 marched into the East Turkistan Republic to rename it Xin Jiang (new frontier) as an autonomous region of the CCP China, which also aced out the Soviet Russians who'd always had historical influence there. Uighurs speak a Turkic tongue from the influence of the Ottomans who drifted over to there. The Turkish PM Erdogan celebrated several years ago being the first Turk leader ever to visit the place when the CCP Boyz allowed him to visit in Xinjiang for almost a week. That was when Erdogan and the CCP Boyz were on speaking terms, which they haven't been now for a couple of years. Erdogan keeps taking Uighur refugees (some via Thailand, others via India) but more to the fury of the CCP Boyz, won't apply any influence to stop the flow of weapons into Jinjiang via Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgizstan or the training of Xinjiang rebels there and in Syria for Jihad against the Boyz. After 9/11 GW Bush declared the Uighur fighters terrorists to much praise from the Boyz and some subsequent diplomatic reward from them here and there. However, Uighur exile groups long ago set up in the US where they can and do operate freely and meet often with Obama administration officials.

[Publicus]

Go get them Admiral Wu.

The location may be disputed by a few other Asian countries, but the last one who has anything to do with it is the self proclaimed policeman of the world.

The location 'may be disputed by a few other countries'? 'may be disputed'? What weasel words are these, which line up with China's CCP trouble-making in the region? I assume that both the interests of Vietnam and the Philippines are to be dumped to support anti-Americanism as no doubt also that of Taiwan and Japan. Without the USA China would be making even bigger mischief.

I think Asian countries can take care of their problems themselves, and don't need the US for that, same as Iraq- Afghanistan or Syria don't need them.

When does the US gonna mind it's own business? Asia is far from their bed.

There is almost 100% disagreement against the claim, Cambodia being the sore thumb exception along with North Korea too.

SecDef Ashton Carter is in the region today for a strategy session in Malaysia with Asean defense ministers. Beijing was not invited and will not be present unless the PLA invades..

The US move delighted China’s neighbours, which have territorial disputes with the rising military power in the region, particularly the Philippines and Japan.

http://asiantribune.com/node/88114

US gathers Korean support over South China Sea tensions

Defense chief Ashton Carter reaffirms military ties with South Korea on first leg of Asia-Pacific tour

—South Korea’s defense minister called for freedom of the seas and the skies in the South China Sea, in the strongest public remarks by a South Korean official over a recent spat between the U.S. and China over the contested waters.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/south-korea-calls-for-south-china-sea-rights-1446461006

S China Sea tensions increasing demand for US presence: Pentagon

US Defense Secretary Ashton Carter (right) and South Korean Defense Minister Han Min Koo look towards North Korea at an observation post near the border village of Panmunjom, which has separated the two Koreas since the Korean War. Photo: AP

U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter’s two-stop swing through the Asia-Pacific finds him in Malaysia this morning, knocking out some bilateral meetings on the margins of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations’ defense ministers meeting.

Mr Carter said discussions at the defence summit in Malaysia would include developments in the South China Sea, “the most notable of which in the last year has been the unprecedented rate of dredging and military activity by China”.

http://www.defenseone.com/news/2015/11/the-d-brief-november-02-2015/123315/

Edited November 3, 2015 by Publicus

[SheungWan]

Go get them Admiral Wu.

The location may be disputed by a few other Asian countries, but the last one who has anything to do with it is the self proclaimed policeman of the world.

The location 'may be disputed by a few other countries'? 'may be disputed'? What weasel words are these, which line up with China's CCP trouble-making in the region? I assume that both the interests of Vietnam and the Philippines are to be dumped to support anti-Americanism as no doubt also that of Taiwan and Japan. Without the USA China would be making even bigger mischief.

I think Asian countries can take care of their problems themselves, and don't need the US for that, same as Iraq- Afghanistan or Syria don't need them.

When does the US gonna mind it's own business? Asia is far from their bed.

What you think is not so. You may wish it so but that is not the same thing. Your fundamental mistake is to assume that in the case of the South China Seas US support for the small nations in the region is unwanted by the countries and that just isn't so. Sorry that the situation in the real world here does not match up to your anti-American narrative, but the scandal is that in practice lining up with Mainland China is inexcusable.

[Jingthing]

Yes. The USA is a PACIFIC nation. Not a PACIFIST nation.

Next ...

[spidermike007]

Good on the US for doing this. Someone has to stand up to the creeps in the CCP. Their intentions are positively heinous. And their ambitions know no bounds. Better to stand up to them alot sooner, rather than later. A confrontation with these super freaks is inevitable. Best to show them some limits now. And the US has countless obligations in this region. So, why not make a show of this?

[squarethecircle]

US should train and arm moderate Chinese rebels, even if they don't exist today...

Well that's sort of what Taiwan is, Nationalist government who fled to Taiwan after the CCP took over, but both sides officially consider Taiwan a province of China but disagree about the legitimate government of the country. US has protected Taiwan for the past 66 years and I think this is a shining example of a good US foreign intervention.

[TheCruncher]

Please, do you actually think Asian nations can stand against China? Ask the Lao people what they think about being a satalite of China. China wants all of Asia and if somebody doesn't help the Asian nations they will have it.

Sure China wants all of Asia, and the US doesn't consider to share even that part of the world with someone else.

@SheungWan : I never said that the involved countries don't welcome the interventions of the Americans, but as with every intervention they only do so if it is in their own interest.

Edited November 4, 2015 by TheCruncher

[Expat1]

Well, the chief sh#t stirrer is back, huh. They still think it's the 1990's. I don't hold with what the Chins did in fabricating these islands but the days of gun boat diplomacy won't work anymore for the Americans. They are no longer as formidable in comparison to possible high tech opponents as they were before. Ask the crew of the USS Donald Cook. That was embarrassing and showed precisely how lacking US arms is and has devolved. They make great US media hype and saber rattling but not much else as the other side is not blinking first anymore. Best to find other ways of working things out.

[Usernames]

There seems to be a certain sort of expat who has come to Thailand because they thought their homeland was on the verge of collapse, anarchy, or civil war. They've been here for awhile and and now are becoming frustrated that their great fear (hope!) did not happen. So, they continually dream of the great Chinese victory over the US and the West. That will justify their move to a country in which most of them seem to have become miserable. Hope springs eternal.

[TheCruncher]

There seems to be a certain sort of expat who has come to Thailand because they thought their homeland was on the verge of collapse, anarchy, or civil war. They've been here for awhile and and now are becoming frustrated that their great fear (hope!) did not happen. So, they continually dream of the great Chinese victory over the US and the West. That will justify their move to a country in which most of them seem to have become miserable. Hope springs eternal.

And all that ridiculing only because I don't share your views?

Ever heard of freedom of expression? Probably not.

Your post says a lot about your attitude. I bet you're an American.

Edited November 4, 2015 by TheCruncher

[Publicus]

Admiral Harry Harris was in Beijing today talking with CCP generals and admirals as SecDef Ashton Carter was in Malaysia conferring with Asean defense ministers. Adm Harris is Commander of US Forces Pacific based in Pearl Harbor, Honolulu Hawaii.

Commander U.S. Armed Forces Pacific Command, Adm Harry B Harris Jr, shakes hands with China’s General Fang Fenghui, chief of the PLA General Staff, before their meeting at the Bayi Building in Beijing, China, Tuesday, November 3, 2015. (AP Photo) Adm Harris was born in Japan in 1956 to an American army father married to his Japanese mother and grew up in Tennessee and Kentucky. Harris is a 1978 graduate of the US Naval Academy, Annapolis MD.

“We’ve been conducting freedom of navigation operations all over the world for decades, so no one should be surprised by them,” Admiral Harris said. “The South China Sea is not, and will not, be an exception.”

Admiral Harris emphasized that the United States had carried out such operations around the world “while avoiding military conflict, and that remains our goal.”

http://www.nytimes.com/video/world/100000004015652/officials-discuss-china-sea-operations.html?t=26

In rare event the CCP Boyz allowed a brief video to be released of the actual discussion between the top PLA generals and Admiral Harris. It's believed the CCP wants to show Asean and others the Boyz are willing to discuss things.

<iframe title="New York Times Video - Embed Player" width="480" height="321" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" allowfullscreen="true" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" id="nyt_video_player" src="http://graphics8.nytimes.com/video/players/offsite/index.html?videoId=100000004015652"></iframe>

[impulse]

Interesting that about 80 years ago, the USA muddled up someone's plans to do the same (except on land) to China...

Or they'd be speaking Japanese in the halls of power in Nanjing.

Edit: In fairness, or they may be speaking Russian..

Edited November 4, 2015 by impulse

[Usernames]

There seems to be a certain sort of expat who has come to Thailand because they thought their homeland was on the verge of collapse, anarchy, or civil war. They've been here for awhile and and now are becoming frustrated that their great fear (hope!) did not happen. So, they continually dream of the great Chinese victory over the US and the West. That will justify their move to a country in which most of them seem to have become miserable. Hope springs eternal.

And all that ridiculing only because I don't share your views?

Ever heard of freedom of expression? Probably not.

Your post says a lot about your attitude. I bet you're an American.

The post was not directed towards you or any individual. How hubristic of you to think so. The world does not revolve around you or your opinions.

[TheCruncher]

There seems to be a certain sort of expat who has come to Thailand because they thought their homeland was on the verge of collapse, anarchy, or civil war. They've been here for awhile and and now are becoming frustrated that their great fear (hope!) did not happen. So, they continually dream of the great Chinese victory over the US and the West. That will justify their move to a country in which most of them seem to have become miserable. Hope springs eternal.

And all that ridiculing only because I don't share your views?

Ever heard of freedom of expression? Probably not.

Your post says a lot about your attitude. I bet you're an American.

The post was not directed towards you or any individual. How hubristic of you to think so. The world does not revolve around you or your opinions.

Indeed, how stupid of me, it should have been obvious from your post and others in this thread that the world resolves around the opinion of Americans.

[Usernames]

There seems to be a certain sort of expat who has come to Thailand because they thought their homeland was on the verge of collapse, anarchy, or civil war. They've been here for awhile and and now are becoming frustrated that their great fear (hope!) did not happen. So, they continually dream of the great Chinese victory over the US and the West. That will justify their move to a country in which most of them seem to have become miserable. Hope springs eternal.

And all that ridiculing only because I don't share your views?

Ever heard of freedom of expression? Probably not.

Your post says a lot about your attitude. I bet you're an American.

The post was not directed towards you or any individual. How hubristic of you to think so. The world does not revolve around you or your opinions.

Indeed, how stupid of me, it should have been obvious from your post and others in this thread that the world resolves around the opinion of Americans.

Oh, dear. Big bad America, again. Somebody has an inferiority complex.