Adam Pickles attack: UK man jailed over Thailand assault

[Aussieroaming]

Despite the numerous derogatory comments about people who choose to hang out in Pattaya, sure there are some, but they are FAR outnumbered by the decent normal constructive peace loving punters who wish to call this place home I feel much safer here than in any other country I have lived in, and as long as one conducts one,s self in a normal manner you will never have a problem Walk out in the streets of any major american city at night and you take your life in your hands, and U.K is not much better

Agree. Unfortunately it's these kind of a$$h0les that give us decent law abiding people living here in Pattaya a bad name. When I am out I sometimes cringe at the low life excuses for human beings that come here to visit ... but we all know why they do. Pattaya will never ever lose its seedy image because this is where money talks but everyone here should not be tarred with the same brush.

I hate it when people cringe on my behalf

[catman20]

to attack someone with an iron bar makes him the lowest of the low a moron an animal a loathsome thing I do wish the powers that be had a purge to clear out all these undesirables they are like a festering sore on the face of pattaya .

I actually wonder if Tinsley did hit him with a iron bar as in the video on utube it shows him on cctv demonstrating to his friends how he hit him and that was 2 punching actions not a striking action.

[davethailand]

to attack someone with an iron bar makes him the lowest of the low a moron an animal a loathsome thing I do wish the powers that be had a purge to clear out all these undesirables they are like a festering sore on the face of pattaya .

I actually wonder if Tinsley did hit him with a iron bar as in the video on utube it shows him on cctv demonstrating to his friends how he hit him and that was 2 punching actions not a striking action.

At the time of the incident I heard it was a case of his head hitting the floor.

Doesn't make it any better though and I hope he recovers.

Edited November 7, 2015 by davethailand

[davethailand]

The scum tend to hang out around soi bukow and walking street. Real losers who hang out at bars all the time. Its like a freak show.

oh dear.

[JMS]

There are numerous scenarios about this case. One is that he was hit with a metal bar, another is that Pickles hit his head on the floor. If it was captured on CCTV why don't we know exactly what happened and why was he found not guilty at the first trial. It just doesn't make sense. Then there was an appeal and with/without new evidence he was found guilty. What I would like to know is why the judge on the appeal found him guilty and the other judge found him innocent. What new evidence was produced at the appeal that the first judge didn't see.

[crobe]

There has been some new evidence in the form of a witness statement.

According to the Thai language report from the police one of Sean Tillsleys friends who was at the bar that night has corroborated the police account that Sean hit Mr Pickles with an iron bar (presumed a tyre iron) after following him from the bar after a minor traffic incident. The friend - unnamed in the police report- has detailed a confession from Sean after the event

While hearday evidence such as this would not be allowed in other jurisdictions it is in Thailand.

No honour amongst these "friends"

[JMS]

At last, thank you Crobe

[TheCruncher]

There has been some new evidence in the form of a witness statement.

According to the Thai language report from the police one of Sean Tillsleys friends who was at the bar that night has corroborated the police account that Sean hit Mr Pickles with an iron bar (presumed a tyre iron) after following him from the bar after a minor traffic incident. The friend - unnamed in the police report- has detailed a confession from Sean after the event

While hearday evidence such as this would not be allowed in other jurisdictions it is in Thailand.

No honour amongst these "friends"

Oh you would consider concealing an attempted murder an act of honour?

[JMS]

I don't know Thai law but I guarantee if I was in the shoes of Tinsley I would appeal and ask this so called friend to be on the witness stand and ask him to prove I said these things as your word against mine doesn't work in any country.

Also to be convicted on the testimony of an unnamed person who gave a letter to the police is unbelievable in my eyes

[dabhand]

Looks like a number of associates of Tinsley are crawling out from the woodwork to, once again, try and sully the name of a guy who is now sentenced to a life that no-one should experience.

Pickles, it should be noted, was Head of English at Regents International school in Pattaya.

I well recall, at the time of the incident, that a number of outrageous posts were made on Thaivisa (subsequently deleted) and other Pattaya based sites that were nothing short of disgusting.

It would appear that a similar disinformation campaign is underway from guys who, no doubt, consider that Tinsley's actions were perfectly acceptable in their world.

Well done to the Thai court system and can only hope that there is a possibility of civil action against Tinsley, either in Thailand (unlikely) or the UK, brought by the family of Pickles on his behalf.

[JMS]

I for one don't know Tinsley and feel the right person who committed the crime be punished to the full extent of the law. My point to this is the guy was found not guilty and then guilty at the next trial. I was asking what the appeal was based on and was told by Croby. In this case if it's true that the police had a statement from an unnamed source who can't be cross examined how can that be fair. In any court in the world the said person should of made himself available to the court for the defendants lawyers to be able to cross examine him. Don't you think that would be fair, look at Koh Tao murders do you believe they have the right people behind bars. Don't get me wrong I deplore violence and if Tinsley carried out the attack he should be locked up for a long time but you have to prove this without any doubt

[TheCruncher]

I for one don't know Tinsley and feel the right person who committed the crime be punished to the full extent of the law. My point to this is the guy was found not guilty and then guilty at the next trial. I was asking what the appeal was based on and was told by Croby. In this case if it's true that the police had a statement from an unnamed source who can't be cross examined how can that be fair. In any court in the world the said person should of made himself available to the court for the defendants lawyers to be able to cross examine him. Don't you think that would be fair, look at Koh Tao murders do you believe they have the right people behind bars. Don't get me wrong I deplore violence and if Tinsley carried out the attack he should be locked up for a long time but you have to prove this without any doubt

Maybe you should take notice that Tinsley is know to have very good contacts in the police force, and that his previous acquittance came at a time before the army took over, and everything was still much easier when some money involved.

[dabhand]

I for one don't know Tinsley and feel the right person who committed the crime be punished to the full extent of the law. My point to this is the guy was found not guilty and then guilty at the next trial. I was asking what the appeal was based on and was told by Croby. In this case if it's true that the police had a statement from an unnamed source who can't be cross examined how can that be fair. In any court in the world the said person should of made himself available to the court for the defendants lawyers to be able to cross examine him. Don't you think that would be fair, look at Koh Tao murders do you believe they have the right people behind bars. Don't get me wrong I deplore violence and if Tinsley carried out the attack he should be locked up for a long time but you have to prove this without any doubt

I understand your point and agree that all sides need to be fairly treated, particularly in respect of ensuring that undue influence of the outcome is not present.

Not aware of the court procedure on criminal cases but have experience of civil cases in Thailand. The initial hearing is before a judge who sits alone whereas the appeal is decided by three judges. It would be no surprise, therefore, if the outcome of the initial case was, somehow, different to that of the appeal. As I say, don't know if that is also the situation in criminal cases.

[davethailand]

I for one don't know Tinsley and feel the right person who committed the crime be punished to the full extent of the law. My point to this is the guy was found not guilty and then guilty at the next trial. I was asking what the appeal was based on and was told by Croby. In this case if it's true that the police had a statement from an unnamed source who can't be cross examined how can that be fair. In any court in the world the said person should of made himself available to the court for the defendants lawyers to be able to cross examine him. Don't you think that would be fair, look at Koh Tao murders do you believe they have the right people behind bars. Don't get me wrong I deplore violence and if Tinsley carried out the attack he should be locked up for a long time but you have to prove this without any doubt

Maybe you should take notice that Tinsley is know to have very good contacts in the police force, and that his previous acquittance came at a time before the army took over, and everything was still much easier when some money involved.

Good point actually, alot of things changed when the Army turned up, I know of another case where a deal was done to solve a problem, Army involved. monies returned and jail time served.

Regarding this incident I'm glad that the family feel that they have seen some justice, I don't know what happened, heard a couple of versions and can't honestly say whether I think this happened or that happened but it doesn't excuse the tragic way that it ended up for Adam and his family.

[JemJem]

I am not really a hardcore anti-Pattaya person, and I know that the majority of expats and tourists there, including those who mostly hang out at bars, are decent folks; but there is sadly also a large number of nasty types, especially at bars. I am someone who likes to go bar-hopping often, so I will continue to give Pattaya a miss. No, thanks.

[davethailand]

I am not really a hardcore anti-Pattaya person, and I know that the majority of expats and tourists there, including those who mostly hang out at bars, are decent folks; but there is sadly also a large number of nasty types, especially at bars. I am someone who likes to go bar-hopping often, so I will continue to give Pattaya a miss. No, thanks.

Fair enough but you'll also find them in BKK, Phuket, Hua Hin etc etc.

[Basil B]

Prison is to good for this ____, he is an animal and as such should be banged up in a zoo.

[catman20]

to attack someone with an iron bar makes him the lowest of the low a moron an animal a loathsome thing I do wish the powers that be had a purge to clear out all these undesirables they are like a festering sore on the face of pattaya .

I actually wonder if Tinsley did hit him with a iron bar as in the video on utube it shows him on cctv demonstrating to his friends how he hit him and that was 2 punching actions not a striking action.

At the time of the incident I heard it was a case of his head hitting the floor.

Doesn't make it any better though and I hope he recovers.

I herd the same as you, I would like to know where everyone has see or herd of the ( evidence clearly state and iron bar )?

Edited November 8, 2015 by catman20

[catman20]

Prison is to good for this ____, he is an animal and as such should be banged up in a zoo.

you forget there are always two side to every story, im not saying I agree with what happened, but we don't and will never know what really happened.

[teacher]

who's to say what he did? he got cleared of attempted Murder for a lesser charge of an attack, nothing to do with an IRON BAR or any weapon.

[teacher]

to attack someone with an iron bar makes him the lowest of the low a moron an animal a loathsome thing I do wish the powers that be had a purge to clear out all these undesirables they are like a festering sore on the face of pattaya .

I actually wonder if Tinsley did hit him with a iron bar as in the video on utube it shows him on cctv demonstrating to his friends how he hit him and that was 2 punching actions not a striking action.

At the time of the incident I heard it was a case of his head hitting the floor.

Doesn't make it any better though and I hope he recovers.

I herd the same as you, I would like to know where everyone has see or herd of the ( evidence clearly state and iron bar )?

No pleae read this again, there was no evidence of this iron bar or he would have been found Guilty. He was actually found not guilty of attempted murder. He was found guilty of an attack only, not even ABH (Actual Body Harm) or GBH (Grevious Body Harm.)

[teacher]

There are numerous scenarios about this case. One is that he was hit with a metal bar, another is that Pickles hit his head on the floor. If it was captured on CCTV why don't we know exactly what happened and why was he found not guilty at the first trial. It just doesn't make sense. Then there was an appeal and with/without new evidence he was found guilty. What I would like to know is why the judge on the appeal found him guilty and the other judge found him innocent. What new evidence was produced at the appeal that the first judge didn't see.

"It just doesnt make sense" He was found not guilty (lack of evidence) of attempted murder and the Pickles family appealed against that. The appeal courts also found him not guilty but, found him guilty of Assault. As the heading states of this forum UK MAN JAILED OVER THAILAND ASSAULT

[crobe]

As far as I can understand from the police report (which admittedly lacks some clarity), the original charge brought before the court was of attempted murder, but the Thai judge put a lot of enphasis on the suspected weapon (wrongly quoted by some as an iron bar - it was in fact a tyre iron or in english a wheel brace) and this was translated into Thai as a "short metal club".

There was some back and forward (Police said the forensics proved short metal club, Sean's lawyer argued that he hit his head)

Due to the weapon not being a gun or a knife and the uncertainty over the weapon the judge found that there was insufficient evidence to convict on a charge of attempted murder but allowed an appeal to go forward so that the lesser charge of assault. With a new witness statement confirming the use of the weapon this was increased to the equivalent of aggravated assault and this is what he has now been convicted of.

He can, and probably will, also appeal this sentence, but his case may hinge on getting the informant to retract their statement, as an assualt and an 'accidental injury" wuld lessen the sentence to a shoirt prison term or a fine and deportation.

[tmd5855]

Despite the numerous derogatory comments about people who choose to hang out in Pattaya, sure there are some, but they are FAR outnumbered by the decent normal constructive peace loving punters who wish to call this place home I feel much safer here than in any other country I have lived in, and as long as one conducts one,s self in a normal manner you will never have a problem Walk out in the streets of any major american city at night and you take your life in your hands, and U.K is not much better

Lived here in Pattaya whilst working offshore for 10+ years. Never had a problem, have seen many, but, it usually involves 2 week holiday makers.

these type of characters would create problems in an empty room.

Have my home in Soi Bongkot, which is just off 3rd road. The number of Thai bars, Thai karaoke joints I need to walk past are many. Feel safer here than walking the streets of Glasgow and later years in Bristol in the early hours.

[teacher]

_{SO where did your information come from CROBE, surely the Judge (any Judge) would put the emphises on the weapon (Now being a short metal club) for the evidence that he was in fact attacked by this.}

_{There was no club, iron bar or any weapon produced in court as evidence so they could NOT convict him. Not a scrap of scientific evidence was produced either, no doctor's report to say iron fragments were found, not even a mention of any weapon what so ever went to the courts. So has this just been blown up becasue they have someone in holding? i really dont know, neither dose anyone else know, as nobody has come forward to say, I SAW THAT MAN DO THAT TO THAT MAN WITH THAT WEAPON.}

_{What do they say THE PROOF IS IN THE EATING.}

[teacher]

Seems the only evidence is a video, that was 100s of meters away from where this incedent happened. This video is showing a man in a bar/restaurant having chat and a drink with others, hitting his own fist. With no audio available, how can anyone get charge for attempted murder on that?

It really think this is the same as a hit and run case, without the car, or any scrap of evidence like someone actually saying, ''i saw that person in that car do that" there is not a case.

How many murders are solved without the body or evidence? I would say non....

I do feel sorry for Adam, and i hope he can make a full recovery. However, unfortunately and realistly how can this ever get resolved?

[marinediscoking]

_{SO where did your information come from CROBE, surely the Judge (any Judge) would put the emphises on the weapon (Now being a short metal club) for the evidence that he was in fact attacked by this.}

_{There was no club, iron bar or any weapon produced in court as evidence so they could NOT convict him. Not a scrap of scientific evidence was produced either, no doctor's report to say iron fragments were found, not even a mention of any weapon what so ever went to the courts. So has this just been blown up becasue they have someone in holding? i really dont know, neither dose anyone else know, as nobody has come forward to say, I SAW THAT MAN DO THAT TO THAT MAN WITH THAT WEAPON.}

_{What do they say THE PROOF IS IN THE EATING.}

Where are you getting this information about the case?

[crobe]

To respond to "teacher"

Where am I getting my information from?

The police report

Where is the evidence that was not produced at the first court trial

A witness statement from one of Sean's so called "friends"

"Teacher" seems to want to put forward the case from Sean's perspective, almost the same as his lawyer argued in court and the fact that there was no corroborative evidence leading to an attempted murder charge.

Now we have one of Sean's friends giving evidence against him.

"teacher seems a bit too keen to defend him, maybe he doth protest too much"

[champken]

There is no doubt in my mind that Tinsley did NOT attempt to murder Adam Pickles and i am also sure that he would not have wanted to have been responsible for how Adam is today, however, i do see Tinsley as a wannabe hard man that wanted to give somebody a good hiding and then show off about it and score points with his drinking buddies.

[djayz]

I wish Adam a full recovery, emotionally/psychologically at least.

The other guy can rot in prison for all I care.