Global push for end to Syria war seen as most serious yet

[webfact]

Global push for end to Syria war seen as most serious yet
By BASSEM MROUE

BEIRUT (AP) — The international community is mounting its most serious effort yet to end the nearly 5-year-old Syrian war, rallying around a second round of talks in Vienna this weekend amid the emergence of a Russian proposal that calls for early elections.

But the global push for peace so far excludes any of the Syrian players, and experts say any hasty decisions risk leading to even greater bloodshed.

While world leaders seem to be in agreement that the time has come to put an end to the carnage in Syria that has killed more than 250,000 people, there is still no clear roadmap on how to get there.

Still, the stepped up diplomatic activity, coupled with the U.S. decision to send special operation troops into northern Syria — something the Obama administration had long sought to avoid — reflects a new urgency and a shift in dealing with the world's most intransigent conflict.

The Russian proposal calls for drafting a new constitution within 18 months that would be put to a popular referendum and be followed by an early presidential election. But it makes no mention of Syrian President Bashar Assad stepping down during the transition — a key opposition demand and a sticking point in all previous negotiations to end the civil war.

Russia's military intervention in Syria has raised Moscow's profile when it comes to Syria and given Russian President Vladimir Putin a stronger say in how to end the conflict.

"This is really the first serious effort on the part of the United States and Russia to bridge the divide, to come up with some concrete ideas about the broad contours of a diplomatic settlement," said Fawaz Gerges, a Middle East expert at the London School of Economics.

The divides have narrowed considerably, he said, adding that the Americans and the Russians now seem to see eye-to-eye on restructuring the political system by drafting a new constitution and holding early elections.

The involvement of Russia and Iran, two key allies of Assad, is essential in any talks on Syria. Iran had been excluded from last year's talks in Switzerland, but attended the talks two weeks ago in Vienna along with its arch regional rival, Saudi Arabia, a key backer of the rebels fighting to topple Assad.

The Syria conflict has turned into a proxy war between regional and international foes, and observers have long said that any attempt to end the fighting will have to come from an agreement between the warring parties' regional backers, who can then strong-arm the groups they support into making the necessary concessions.

At the initial talks in Vienna on Oct. 30, the U.S., Russia, Iran and more than a dozen other nations agreed to launch a new peace effort involving Syria's government and opposition groups.

The second round on Saturday again excludes the Syrians, and it is not clear yet if the Russian proposal has been coordinated with the Syrian government. The proposal also does not address a mechanism for bringing about a cease-fire ahead of talks.

"The political future of Dr. Bashar Assad should only be decided by the Syrian people in democratic elections," said Iran's deputy foreign minister for Arab and African affairs, Hossein Amir-Abdollahian, speaking in Beirut on Wednesday following a visit to Moscow.

But that is easier said than done.

Syrian legislator Sharif Shehadeh, a member of the ruling Baath party, told The Associated Press there will be no presidential vote before Assad's latest term ends in 2021. He added that parliamentary elections are an internal Syrian affair and that it was still too early to hold them.

Assad was elected for a third seven-year term last year in an election boycotted by the opposition and dismissed as a sham by its Western supporters. The vote was held only in government-controlled areas of Syria, which have since shrunk further, with Islamic extremists seizing more areas of the country.

Allies of the Syrian government recognized the legitimacy of the election, and the fighting worsened.

Russia began launching airstrikes in support of Assad's troops on Sept. 30. The stated aim was hitting at Islamic State extremists, but the airstrikes have improved the position of Assad's forces, who have gone on the offensive in some areas. On Tuesday, government troops broke a siege imposed by the Islamic State group on a northern military air base since 2013, marking the first major achievement by Assad's forces since Russia began its airstrikes.

Hezbollah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, whose fighters have played a key role in backing Assad, said the latest battlefield gains by government forces show that their rivals "should move toward a political solution without preconditions that are impossible to achieve."

Prominent Syrian opposition figure Haitham al-Maleh said the very fact that Russia is carrying out airstrikes in support of Assad's troops shows Moscow wants the "current regime to stay," adding that the opposition will not accept any role for Assad during the transition. His words reflect the deep mistrust among Syria's myriad opposition and rebel factions of any proposal emerging from the Russians.

Iran, too, remains a wild card. It is unclear how far Tehran, which has pumped billions of dollars into supporting Assad, would compromise following its nuclear deal with the West.

Robert Ford, a senior fellow at the Middle East Institute and a former U.S. ambassador to Syria, warned that a new constitution and new elections can only be held after serious governance changes are made.

"Unlike diplomats meeting in Vienna and Geneva, Syrians have seen firsthand how the Syrian government operates and how it manages elections," Ford wrote in an article published by the think tank this week. "As hard as those negotiations surely will be, rushing to elections without serious, perceptible progress on the rule of law first is a sure-fire scenario to make the Syrian civil war even nastier."

Even though the latest talks represent the most serious opportunity yet, their success is a long shot, Gerges said.

"Not only because the devil is in the details, but because we are talking about regional powers that don't see eye-to-eye and you are talking about multiple factions that are going to fight until the end," he said.
____

Bassem Mroue has covered the Middle East for The Associated Press since 1992.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-11-12

[ezzra]

This push and others like it doomed to fail because you have external powers that want their pound of flesh

and get a part of Syria for themselves, namely the Russian and the Iranians, tow countries that decided to

curve a slice of Syria for their expansion plans, all thanks to Obama with his vision of the world without the

US playing a major part, big mistake, a mistake that the US is paying for it now and will pay even more

in years to come...

[shirtless]

They are not there to help the Syrian people , its a proxy war fought and paid for by taxpayers so big oil can make even more money,

[Expat1]

Surely you jest I agree with your comment however and well said. However, I paraphrase here..." This push and others like it doomed to fail because you have external powers that want their pound of flesh and get a part of Syria for themselves, namely the Americans and Israelis and their Sayanim, two countries that decided to curve a slice of Syria for their expansion plans (mostly Israeli concept of Americans forever must protect Israel), all thanks to Obama originally pushed by Sayanim agenda there, with his (their) vision of the world with the US playing a sole major part, big mistake, a mistake that the US is paying for it now and will pay even more in years to come..."

The US playing a major role in what they believe must be their monopolar world with the USA at the center. It would appear that the rest of the world is tired of it and has decided to take steps to create a multipolar world. About time.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Expat1

[craigt3365]

This is also a war about religions ideology. Western powers are involved. One because of money (Russia), one because of a so called war on terror (US) and another because of religion (Iran).

They should all leave Syria alone. Unfortunately, that won't happen with too many boots on the ground now.

[Pakboong]

There are so many issues at play here. None of them are simple. The big prize includes the oil in the Golan Heights which Syria believes is their sovereign right. Israel, however, is now occupying the Golan and does not want to give it up. A coalition of Shia tribes including Syrians, Hezbolla, Iran and Iraq are trying to force ISIS into the Golan. If they can accomplish this push toward Israel, the Israelis will be faced with letting them in and I don't think that will happen. But, it does set up a huge confrontation that very well could be the WW3 spark.

[retarius]

Ever wondered why the US never comes up with any proposals? They always leave it up to Russia and then complain about the ideas. There is enough hypocrisy in and around Syria to drown the whole world. Jesus hates hypocrites. The talks seemed already doomed by US intransigence, as they have realized that Russia might finally have a proposal that most reasonable people will agree with, and doesn;t end up with the US installing a charade puppet government like the did in Afghaistan and Iraq....and look how well they turned out.

People need to think. This heavily armed opposition didn't just spring into being when Syrian troops supposedly fired on civilians demonstrating against Assad. The heavily armed opposition was armed by foreign governments that wished to bring down Assad. Assad has always maintained, and I am inclined to agree with him that the demonstration was a false flag covert op carried out or planned by the CIA. For those who drink too much Kool-Aid remember the Gulf of Tonkin, the Battleship Maine...history is full of American false flags.

Now the Syrian 'opposition' leaders have refused to join talk with the legitimate rulers of Syria, ie Assad's regime. There were at the last count 15 different groups claiming to represent the views of the opposition, and they will not unite behind a single leader. You can see if fifteen went into an election against Assad, he would win and the fact is that the opposition are afraid of elections as they suspect Assad or pro-Assad parties will win. Assad is recognized by the UN as the legitimate ruler of Syria. In my view he should stay, but he is going to have to lose some territory to the Turks and to the Kurds.

[Publicus]

If there's an election in Syria the several million Syrian bedraggled refugees staying in several foreign countries of the region would have to be included. This would be a monumental task, which is to say all but impossible.

Assad and his gang of mass murderers don't want another election and certainly not a fair one until 2021 which is according to Assad's schedule as leader of Syria. The opposition boycotted the most recent election, last year. So the fighting and mayhem in what used to be a country starts with Assad and ends with Assad.

An election now or in a year or two means millions will not vote for Assad. Which means in reality millions will not ever get to vote while Assad is leader of what long ago ceased to be a functioning country with a government that long ago ceased to be a functioning government.

The proposal of a constitution and elections comes from Russia where political opponents are poisoned or shot to death in the open outside the Kremlin.

[Thorgal]

If there's an election in Syria the several million Syrian bedraggled refugees staying in several foreign countries of the region would have to be included. This would be a monumental task, which is to say all but impossible.

Assad and his gang of mass murderers don't want another election and certainly not a fair one until 2021 which is according to Assad's schedule as leader of Syria. The opposition boycotted the most recent election, last year. So the fighting and mayhem in what used to be a country starts with Assad and ends with Assad.

An election now or in a year or two means millions will not vote for Assad. Which means in reality millions will not ever get to vote while Assad is leader of what long ago ceased to be a functioning country with a government that long ago ceased to be a functioning government.

The proposal of a constitution and elections comes from Russia where political opponents are poisoned or shot to death in the open outside the Kremlin.

Just have a look at this, from one of the greatest democracies in the world...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/elections-in-syria-washington-pressured-several-countries-to-prevent-syrian-expats-from-voting/5385442

Instead, there have been 2 Syrian opposition governments staged by the West which are not supported by the Syrian public opposition. Moreover, they support openly like HRC, Laurent Fabius (French foreign minister) that Al Nusra is doing pretty good job !

[Chicog]

If there's an election in Syria the several million Syrian bedraggled refugees staying in several foreign countries of the region would have to be included. This would be a monumental task, which is to say all but impossible.

Assad and his gang of mass murderers don't want another election and certainly not a fair one until 2021 which is according to Assad's schedule as leader of Syria. The opposition boycotted the most recent election, last year. So the fighting and mayhem in what used to be a country starts with Assad and ends with Assad.

An election now or in a year or two means millions will not vote for Assad. Which means in reality millions will not ever get to vote while Assad is leader of what long ago ceased to be a functioning country with a government that long ago ceased to be a functioning government.

The proposal of a constitution and elections comes from Russia where political opponents are poisoned or shot to death in the open outside the Kremlin.

Just have a look at this, from one of the greatest democracies in the world...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/elections-in-syria-washington-pressured-several-countries-to-prevent-syrian-expats-from-voting/5385442

Instead, there have been 2 Syrian opposition governments staged by the West which are not supported by the Syrian public opposition. Moreover, they support openly like HRC, Laurent Fabius (French foreign minister) that Al Nusra is doing pretty good job !

Not a particularly impartial or truthful source, given that it's one of those nutjob sites that peddles such conspiratorial nonsense as Chemtrails and the US knowning about the 2004 tsunami in advance and covering it up.

And it usually parrots Press TV or RT propaganda.

Try again.

[Thorgal]

If there's an election in Syria the several million Syrian bedraggled refugees staying in several foreign countries of the region would have to be included. This would be a monumental task, which is to say all but impossible.

Assad and his gang of mass murderers don't want another election and certainly not a fair one until 2021 which is according to Assad's schedule as leader of Syria. The opposition boycotted the most recent election, last year. So the fighting and mayhem in what used to be a country starts with Assad and ends with Assad.

An election now or in a year or two means millions will not vote for Assad. Which means in reality millions will not ever get to vote while Assad is leader of what long ago ceased to be a functioning country with a government that long ago ceased to be a functioning government.

The proposal of a constitution and elections comes from Russia where political opponents are poisoned or shot to death in the open outside the Kremlin.

Just have a look at this, from one of the greatest democracies in the world...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/elections-in-syria-washington-pressured-several-countries-to-prevent-syrian-expats-from-voting/5385442

Instead, there have been 2 Syrian opposition governments staged by the West which are not supported by the Syrian public opposition. Moreover, they support openly like HRC, Laurent Fabius (French foreign minister) that Al Nusra is doing pretty good job !

Not a particularly impartial or truthful source, given that it's one of those nutjob sites that peddles such conspiratorial nonsense as Chemtrails and the US knowning about the 2004 tsunami in advance and covering it up.

And it usually parrots Press TV or RT propaganda.

Try again.

Other sources:

Belgium, Canada, Egypt, France, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, UAE and the United States did not allow the elections to be held in the Syrian embassy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_presidential_election,_2014

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/expats-in-lebanon-kick-off-syria-election-show-of-support-for-assad/

http://www.dw.com/en/syrian-refugees-stranded-and-unable-to-vote/a-17678741

[Chicog]

You do know the meaning of the word 'sham' right?

[Pakboong]

If there's an election in Syria the several million Syrian bedraggled refugees staying in several foreign countries of the region would have to be included. This would be a monumental task, which is to say all but impossible.

Assad and his gang of mass murderers don't want another election and certainly not a fair one until 2021 which is according to Assad's schedule as leader of Syria. The opposition boycotted the most recent election, last year. So the fighting and mayhem in what used to be a country starts with Assad and ends with Assad.

An election now or in a year or two means millions will not vote for Assad. Which means in reality millions will not ever get to vote while Assad is leader of what long ago ceased to be a functioning country with a government that long ago ceased to be a functioning government.

The proposal of a constitution and elections comes from Russia where political opponents are poisoned or shot to death in the open outside the Kremlin.

Just have a look at this, from one of the greatest democracies in the world...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/elections-in-syria-washington-pressured-several-countries-to-prevent-syrian-expats-from-voting/5385442

Instead, there have been 2 Syrian opposition governments staged by the West which are not supported by the Syrian public opposition. Moreover, they support openly like HRC, Laurent Fabius (French foreign minister) that Al Nusra is doing pretty good job !

Not a particularly impartial or truthful source, given that it's one of those nutjob sites that peddles such conspiratorial nonsense as Chemtrails and the US knowning about the 2004 tsunami in advance and covering it up.

And it usually parrots Press TV or RT propaganda.

Try again.

Funny thing about sources, they either make sense or they don't. It is our breadth of understanding of the various issues that matter most. Otherwise, we are very easy to fool. Anyone who believes that only their favorite source is always the truth is in deep trouble.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Pakboong

[Pakboong]

All governments classify information and all governments feed their mainstream media bogus stories as cover for some version of reality. Everybody does it and everybody will continue to do it. Business as usual.

[Chicog]

Ever wondered why the US never comes up with any proposals? They always leave it up to Russia and then complain about the ideas. There is enough hypocrisy in and around Syria to drown the whole world. Jesus hates hypocrites. The talks seemed already doomed by US intransigence, as they have realized that Russia might finally have a proposal that most reasonable people will agree with, and doesn;t end up with the US installing a charade puppet government like the did in Afghaistan and Iraq....and look how well they turned out.

People need to think. This heavily armed opposition didn't just spring into being when Syrian troops supposedly fired on civilians demonstrating against Assad. The heavily armed opposition was armed by foreign governments that wished to bring down Assad. Assad has always maintained, and I am inclined to agree with him that the demonstration was a false flag covert op carried out or planned by the CIA. For those who drink too much Kool-Aid remember the Gulf of Tonkin, the Battleship Maine...history is full of American false flags.

Now the Syrian 'opposition' leaders have refused to join talk with the legitimate rulers of Syria, ie Assad's regime. There were at the last count 15 different groups claiming to represent the views of the opposition, and they will not unite behind a single leader. You can see if fifteen went into an election against Assad, he would win and the fact is that the opposition are afraid of elections as they suspect Assad or pro-Assad parties will win. Assad is recognized by the UN as the legitimate ruler of Syria. In my view he should stay, but he is going to have to lose some territory to the Turks and to the Kurds.

You lost me at "supposedly" and entered the realms of fantasy with the false flag nonsense.

You've been listening to too much Alex Jones.

[craigt3365]

Ever wondered why the US never comes up with any proposals? They always leave it up to Russia and then complain about the ideas. There is enough hypocrisy in and around Syria to drown the whole world. Jesus hates hypocrites. The talks seemed already doomed by US intransigence, as they have realized that Russia might finally have a proposal that most reasonable people will agree with, and doesn;t end up with the US installing a charade puppet government like the did in Afghaistan and Iraq....and look how well they turned out.

People need to think. This heavily armed opposition didn't just spring into being when Syrian troops supposedly fired on civilians demonstrating against Assad. The heavily armed opposition was armed by foreign governments that wished to bring down Assad. Assad has always maintained, and I am inclined to agree with him that the demonstration was a false flag covert op carried out or planned by the CIA. For those who drink too much Kool-Aid remember the Gulf of Tonkin, the Battleship Maine...history is full of American false flags.

Now the Syrian 'opposition' leaders have refused to join talk with the legitimate rulers of Syria, ie Assad's regime. There were at the last count 15 different groups claiming to represent the views of the opposition, and they will not unite behind a single leader. You can see if fifteen went into an election against Assad, he would win and the fact is that the opposition are afraid of elections as they suspect Assad or pro-Assad parties will win. Assad is recognized by the UN as the legitimate ruler of Syria. In my view he should stay, but he is going to have to lose some territory to the Turks and to the Kurds.

You lost me at "supposedly" and entered the realms of fantasy with the false flag nonsense.

You've been listening to too much Alex Jones.

Lost me on the first sentence. No proposals ever from the US? And they always leave it up to Russia? Wow....couldn't read any further! LOL

[craigt3365]

Other sources:

Belgium, Canada, Egypt, France, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, UAE and the United States did not allow the elections to be held in the Syrian embassy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_presidential_election,_2014

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/expats-in-lebanon-kick-off-syria-election-show-of-support-for-assad/

http://www.dw.com/en/syrian-refugees-stranded-and-unable-to-vote/a-17678741

As was pointed out, Western nations did not support this election. Do some more research and you'll see why. From one of your articles:

Many among the refugees and opposition supporters abroad are expected to boycott the vote. There are two other candidates in the race but they are seen as mostly symbolic contenders and little known figures.

Assad is a road block to peace.

[Publicus]

If there's an election in Syria the several million Syrian bedraggled refugees staying in several foreign countries of the region would have to be included. This would be a monumental task, which is to say all but impossible.

Assad and his gang of mass murderers don't want another election and certainly not a fair one until 2021 which is according to Assad's schedule as leader of Syria. The opposition boycotted the most recent election, last year. So the fighting and mayhem in what used to be a country starts with Assad and ends with Assad.

An election now or in a year or two means millions will not vote for Assad. Which means in reality millions will not ever get to vote while Assad is leader of what long ago ceased to be a functioning country with a government that long ago ceased to be a functioning government.

The proposal of a constitution and elections comes from Russia where political opponents are poisoned or shot to death in the open outside the Kremlin.

Just have a look at this, from one of the greatest democracies in the world...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/elections-in-syria-washington-pressured-several-countries-to-prevent-syrian-expats-from-voting/5385442

Instead, there have been 2 Syrian opposition governments staged by the West which are not supported by the Syrian public opposition. Moreover, they support openly like HRC, Laurent Fabius (French foreign minister) that Al Nusra is doing pretty good job !

First off I never read a "news" article twice the length of my longest posts

Secondly, the link is to a website popular among only the new global order people of Putin and the CCP Boyz in Beijing, to include Assad, the ayatollahs, Mugabe, the falling Brics and Donald Trump.

Third, al Nusrah is not GW Bush's al Qaeda in the ME nor would Dick Cheney have the time of day for it. Al Nusrah are almost entirely Syrian fighters fighting against Assad. No global jihadists there, no sky pilots interested in blowing up towers, no Sharia law to impose on the world. The guys at al Nusrah even get along with the Israelis and the government of Israel, rather famously in certain instances.

Israel has opened its borders with Syria in order to provide medical treatment to Nusra Front and al-Qaida fighters wounded in the ongoing civil war, according to The Wall Street Journal.

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Israel-treating-al-Qaida-fighters-wounded-in-Syria-civil-war-393862

Edited November 12, 2015 by Publicus

[Publicus]

If there's an election in Syria the several million Syrian bedraggled refugees staying in several foreign countries of the region would have to be included. This would be a monumental task, which is to say all but impossible.

Assad and his gang of mass murderers don't want another election and certainly not a fair one until 2021 which is according to Assad's schedule as leader of Syria. The opposition boycotted the most recent election, last year. So the fighting and mayhem in what used to be a country starts with Assad and ends with Assad.

An election now or in a year or two means millions will not vote for Assad. Which means in reality millions will not ever get to vote while Assad is leader of what long ago ceased to be a functioning country with a government that long ago ceased to be a functioning government.

The proposal of a constitution and elections comes from Russia where political opponents are poisoned or shot to death in the open outside the Kremlin.

Just have a look at this, from one of the greatest democracies in the world...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/elections-in-syria-washington-pressured-several-countries-to-prevent-syrian-expats-from-voting/5385442

Instead, there have been 2 Syrian opposition governments staged by the West which are not supported by the Syrian public opposition. Moreover, they support openly like HRC, Laurent Fabius (French foreign minister) that Al Nusra is doing pretty good job !

Not a particularly impartial or truthful source, given that it's one of those nutjob sites that peddles such conspiratorial nonsense as Chemtrails and the US knowning about the 2004 tsunami in advance and covering it up.

And it usually parrots Press TV or RT propaganda.

Try again.

Funny thing about sources, they either make sense or they don't. It is our breadth of understanding of the various issues that matter most. Otherwise, we are very easy to fool. Anyone who believes that only their favorite source is always the truth is in deep trouble.

Sources are most often used as citations not revelations.

It remains true however that sometimes news is actually news.

In the specific instance of this thread and topic, the links posted by the fanboyz of Putin-Assad are the expected links and sources that have for years been trumpeting a new global order of an allied Germany, Russia, China. Which is why mainstream people and the MSM such as the WSJ completely ignore or immediately dismiss such links and sources.

Reality is that there are people who exist on the fringe and that lean on their well financed fringe media the way a drunk leans on a lamp post.

[derator01]

English language references only, please. And stay on topic, please.

[AlexRRR]

If there's an election in Syria the several million Syrian bedraggled refugees staying in several foreign countries of the region would have to be included. This would be a monumental task, which is to say all but impossible.

Assad and his gang of mass murderers don't want another election and certainly not a fair one until 2021 which is according to Assad's schedule as leader of Syria. The opposition boycotted the most recent election, last year. So the fighting and mayhem in what used to be a country starts with Assad and ends with Assad.

An election now or in a year or two means millions will not vote for Assad. Which means in reality millions will not ever get to vote while Assad is leader of what long ago ceased to be a functioning country with a government that long ago ceased to be a functioning government.

The proposal of a constitution and elections comes from Russia where political opponents are poisoned or shot to death in the open outside the Kremlin.

The guy who posted above you had a better view of the issues in Syria, your just parroting a typical US view, the middle east is not Canada or some nation in Europe, forget your or western ideas on democracy they don't apply to half the world yet zealots are trying to push it down everbodys throat, that you live in a democracy there fore everyone else should too...

Cast your memory back to before the spring rising even further when saddam reigned and even before 7/11 the region was much more stable, the fact is there system and ho yes they have there own system worked just fine, might be unpalatable to you but who are you?

As for Assad being a murderer lets not get above ourselves, he who throws stones should not live in a glass house, its amazing how Americans have amnesia.

[Scott]

Replies to removed posts have been deleted.

[craigt3365]

If there's an election in Syria the several million Syrian bedraggled refugees staying in several foreign countries of the region would have to be included. This would be a monumental task, which is to say all but impossible.

Assad and his gang of mass murderers don't want another election and certainly not a fair one until 2021 which is according to Assad's schedule as leader of Syria. The opposition boycotted the most recent election, last year. So the fighting and mayhem in what used to be a country starts with Assad and ends with Assad.

An election now or in a year or two means millions will not vote for Assad. Which means in reality millions will not ever get to vote while Assad is leader of what long ago ceased to be a functioning country with a government that long ago ceased to be a functioning government.

The proposal of a constitution and elections comes from Russia where political opponents are poisoned or shot to death in the open outside the Kremlin.

The guy who posted above you had a better view of the issues in Syria, your just parroting a typical US view, the middle east is not Canada or some nation in Europe, forget your or western ideas on democracy they don't apply to half the world yet zealots are trying to push it down everbodys throat, that you live in a democracy there fore everyone else should too...

Cast your memory back to before the spring rising even further when saddam reigned and even before 7/11 the region was much more stable, the fact is there system and ho yes they have there own system worked just fine, might be unpalatable to you but who are you?

As for Assad being a murderer lets not get above ourselves, he who throws stones should not live in a glass house, its amazing how Americans have amnesia.

Are you saying, in your last sentence, that a sitting US president murdered American citizens on US soil? If so, then yes, Americans have amnesia. I guess.

But yes, life in Syria was a bed of roses before the current PM, 9-11, the Arab uprisings and the Iraq wars:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Hama_massacre

The Hama massacre (Arabic: مجزرة حماة‎) occurred in February 1982, when the Syrian Arab Army and the Defense Companies, under the orders of the country's president Hafez al-Assad, besieged the town of Hama for 27 days in order to quell an uprising by the Muslim Brotherhood against al-Assad's government.^[2][3] The massacre, carried out by the Syrian Army under commanding General Rifaat al-Assad, effectively ended the campaign begun in 1976 by Sunni Muslim groups, including the Muslim Brotherhood, against the government.

Initial diplomatic reports from Western countries stated that 1,000 were killed.^[5][6] Subsequent estimates vary, with the lower estimates claiming that at least 10,000 Syrian citizens were killed,^[1] while others put the number at 20,000 (Robert Fisk),^[2] or 40,000 (Syrian Human Rights Committee).^[3][4] About 1,000 Syrian soldiers were killed during the operation and large parts of the old city were destroyed. Alongside such events as Black September in Jordan,^[7] the attack has been described as one of "the single deadliest acts by any Arab government against its own people in the modern Middle East".^[8] According to anti Syrian government claims the vast majority of the victims were civilians.^[9]

A fine and upstanding PM of Syria, respecting his citizens rights.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafez_al-Assad

In 1966, Assad participated in a second coup, which toppled the traditional leaders of the Ba'ath Party, and brought a radical military faction headed by Salah Jadid to power. Assad was appointed defense minister by the new government. In 1970 Assad seized power by toppling Jadid, and appointed himself the undisputed leader of Syria in the period 1970–71.

I think many in Syria might perhaps prefer a failed democracy to what they've endured over the past many years.

[AlexRRR]

There is always a wannabe warlord in and all over the Middle East, just needs someone to support them, that's the system over there, survival of the strongest rules, before the French introduced democracy it's went on everywhere.

Like I said the region was stable and little threat to Israel with guys like Assad in control, most of these countries were doing ok until someone decided to upset the balance.....you got to get it into your head, they were sovereign nations with leaders recognised in the UN.

The US has its own ghosts in both being directly involved or just an instrument of death, I'm not looking to start a debate on that but I do get pissed off with the politics coming out of the Americas.

[craigt3365]

There is always a wannabe warlord in and all over the Middle East, just needs someone to support them, that's the system over there, survival of the strongest rules, before the French introduced democracy it's went on everywhere.

Like I said the region was stable and little threat to Israel with guys like Assad in control, most of these countries were doing ok until someone decided to upset the balance.....you got to get it into your head, they were sovereign nations with leaders recognised in the UN.

The US has its own ghosts in both being directly involved or just an instrument of death, I'm not looking to start a debate on that but I do get pissed off with the politics coming out of the Americas.

The region was stable? Hmmm...perhaps ask the Lebanese about this. They've probably got a different opinion. I think the Israeli's also regarding Hamas in Lebanon.

Not sure I understand what the UN has to do with this. Nor US ghosts.

I do agree that the politics coming out of the US at times is not good!! LOL