Hasna Aitboulahcen did not detonate a suicide vest during the St. Denis shoot out

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Hasna Aitboulahcen did not detonate a suicide vest during the St. Denis shoot out

Hasna Aitboulahcen,one of the bodies found after the dawn raids in Paris did not detonate a suicide vest as was first thought. Witness accounts reveal she shouted “help me, help me” moments before the explosion. Police say she died when another terrorist next to her detonated a bomb.

It is the latest piece of information of the jigsaw being put together by the authorities. It has also emerged police watched Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the suspected mastermind of the Paris attacks being led into an apartment by Aitboulahcen the evening before both died during the dawn raid.

Police fired more than 5,000 rounds in the shoot out in St Denis. After a tip off from intelligence sources in Morocco officers had focused on Aitboulahcen. Her phone had been tapped as part of a drugs investigation and she unwittingly led them to their target.

The manhunt for Salah Abdeslam has so far thrown up blanks. An international arrest warrant was issued for the 26-year-old on Sunday. The French national has been identified as a key suspect and is said to be highly dangerous. He is now France’s most wanted man.

Two of the attackers who blew themselves up at the Stade de France had travelled through Greece. The Paris prosecutor said in a statement that they had their finger prints taken there on October 3 on their way to France. There is speculation they may have been posing as Syrian refugees.

Source: http://www.euronews.com/2015/11/20/hasna-aitboulahcen-did-not-detonate-a-suicide-vest-during-the-st-denis-shoot-out/

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2015-11-21

[ukrules]

I can live with this outcome.

[ezzra]

So when a women terrorist dies and goes to terrorist haven, dose she get to be with 72 virgin men?

I hope she will, and for entrnity she will be looking at the ceilings... knowing how kindly and humanly Muslims are treating their women folks...

[Seastallion]

So when a women terrorist dies and goes to terrorist haven, dose she get to be with 72 virgin men?

I hope she will, and for entrnity she will be looking at the ceilings... knowing how kindly and humanly Muslims are treating their women folks...

When will you give up with all this gratuitous bigoted nonsense?

[Jiu-Jitsu]

So when a women terrorist dies and goes to terrorist haven, dose she get to be with 72 virgin men?

I hope she will, and for entrnity she will be looking at the ceilings... knowing how kindly and humanly Muslims are treating their women folks...

When will you give up with all this gratuitous bigoted nonsense?

He is what he is. You cannot make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.

[ukrules]

Religion is evil.

[MaeJoMTB]

Police fired 5,000+ rounds to kill 5 terrorists?????

I think a bit more training is needed here.

[Scott]

I am quite well aware that emotions run high on these topics, however, posts which are little more than inflammatory remarks can result in a warning and suspension.

Please stay on topic and be civil in your remarks.

[Kerryd]

So when a women terrorist dies and goes to terrorist haven, dose she get to be with 72 virgin men?

I hope she will, and for entrnity she will be looking at the ceilings... knowing how kindly and humanly Muslims are treating their women folks...

It has been established (more or less) that they all get female virgins. This came about ages ago when Palestinian and Lebanese (female) suicide bombers would make their "pre-go boom" videos and bequeath their expected reward to male members of their family. Obviously in a male dominated society and religion, they weren't going to give males to be subservient to women, so they convinced women that they would get female virgins they could then give to their brothers, uncles, etc, etc.

Works out well for the male members of the family. They don't even have to die (themselves) in the name of their god and they'll still have 72 virgins waiting for them when they die. If they do die in the name of their god, they'll have double the number of virgins waiting for them ! "Hey sis - wear this vest I made for you and go run over there far away from me."

[ukrules]

So when a women terrorist dies and goes to terrorist haven, dose she get to be with 72 virgin men?

I hope she will, and for entrnity she will be looking at the ceilings... knowing how kindly and humanly Muslims are treating their women folks...

It has been established (more or less) that they all get female virgins. This came about ages ago when Palestinian and Lebanese (female) suicide bombers would make their "pre-go boom" videos and bequeath their expected reward to male members of their family. Obviously in a male dominated society and religion, they weren't going to give males to be subservient to women, so they convinced women that they would get female virgins they could then give to their brothers, uncles, etc, etc.

Works out well for the male members of the family. They don't even have to die (themselves) in the name of their god and they'll still have 72 virgins waiting for them when they die. If they do die in the name of their god, they'll have double the number of virgins waiting for them ! "Hey sis - wear this vest I made for you and go run over there far away from me."

Is this really what happened or a joke ?

[Kerryd]

When I first heard that her last words supposedly were "help me, help me" I was kind of wondering if she was calling out for help from the police as she suddenly decided she didn't want to die (and was presumably strapped into an explosive vest of some kind).

I also wondered if maybe, possibly, she was calling out to her accomplice because something was wrong with her vest and it didn't explode like it was meant to. Perhaps she was calling for him to help her set the explosives off. Hard to say and it would depend a lot on her state of mind and level of dedication "to the cause".

As she was known to drink alcohol and was being investigated for drugs, I'd go with the first case. Too early to say for certain though and I suspect we'll know a lot more about her in the near future.

I agree with the 5,000 rounds being excessive post. Too much "spray and pray" and nowhere near enough "aim and double-tap".

[Naam]

So when a women terrorist dies and goes to terrorist haven, dose she get to be with 72 virgin men?

I hope she will, and for entrnity she will be looking at the ceilings... knowing how kindly and humanly Muslims are treating their women folks...

or she might look against a wall

[Somtamnication]

So what do 72 MALE virgins look like?

[NeverSure]

Police fired 5,000+ rounds to kill 5 terrorists?????

I think a bit more training is needed here.

I posted this in another thread. It was probably what's called "suppressive fire." They shoot a lot of ammo, usually from fully auto weapons to make the bad guys keep their heads down and to keep them from returning fire. It also keeps them from spraying the neighborhood of innocents if they should so choose. The bad guys aren't going to have the resupply chain to make it possible for them to engage in suppressive fire.

It is simply astounding how many rounds the military fires for each wounding hit, but it's intentional and strategic.

Cheers.

[Kerryd]

Is this really what happened or a joke ?

It happened, though quite awhile ago now.

Reading up on the whole "72 virgins" and women bit. Months, years even, of material out there about it. It's something that has been debated almost since the invention of Islam and like many matters, in all religions, is subject to interpretation and re-interpretation every generation or so by various scholars. Some believe that a woman's only reward will be to be reunited with her husband and children. Others think her rewards will be to be beautiful, happy and never dissatisfied with her husband (and be virginal in perpetuity). Still others have decided that female suicide bombers will be reborn as the "fairest" of the 72 virgins given to male bombers (seems the woman gets the short end of the stick every time this issue is interpreted and re-interpreted - by men of course).

One Afghani female suicide bomber allegedly decided not to go through with it at the last minute because supposedly she didn't want to have to deal with 72 male virgins in heaven. That's the only reference I could find to women getting male virgins and I suspect she was told that by her male relatives and religious leaders who thought that a woman would be just as excited over the prospect of 72 virgins as a man would be.

"Although Muhammad was heard promising that “round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness: if thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered pearls,” Muslim scholars are emphatic that the pretty virgin boys in Paradise are not there for the women.’"

No surprise there I'm sure. However, as with any religion, people will believe almost anything they are told, especially if it comes from someone they think is knowledgeable on the subject such as a religious leader espousing the rewards one could expect for dying.

I mean it's no less incredulous than most other things they believe without question so why not ?

[Canucklehead]

maybe she is brought back in a new life as a goat in a no woman town....

[Tonto21]

Police fired 5,000+ rounds to kill 5 terrorists?????

I think a bit more training is needed here.

Hey 'MaeJoMTB'

Fact is that is a fair ratio of round expended per kill.......... I know it sounds a lot and we all know it only takes one round to kill.

So, it's a fair assumption of most rational thinking people that it should have took a well trained fire arms user a fraction of the amount fired in Paris to have done the job...... Right?

But........Did you know there were over 50,000 rounds of small arms ammunition fired by US forces for each enemy KIA in Vietnam, (lets not try and be smart about this figure..... most reading this were not there) and In a 10 minute fire fight one night in Northern Ireland, Cross Maglen in 1977 my section fired..... a total of 1500 round were expended..... How many the opposing force fired..... don't know, (they never filed an ammo expenditure report)

Why such a high rate of ammo expenditure? Its down to the nature of the engagement, this was not a planned armed engagement by French SF, they were having to react until they could 'fix' there targets and no I don't think that the security forces in Paris 'sprayed and prayed', many a time firing high volumes of small arms ammunition is done to 'supress' a target, even if they can't hit it (to limit a target to return fire, carry out an action or there plan)........ When the shit hits the fan.... Ammo is cheap!

I think I speak for many when I say I'd be happy to shoot out a barrel for each terrorist KIA.

[SOTIRIOS]

....let's see what 'the next account of events' states.....

[MaeJoMTB]

Police fired 5,000+ rounds to kill 5 terrorists?????

I think a bit more training is needed here.

I posted this in another thread. It was probably what's called "suppressive fire." They shoot a lot of ammo, usually from fully auto weapons to make the bad guys keep their heads down and to keep them from returning fire. It also keeps them from spraying the neighborhood of innocents if they should so choose. The bad guys aren't going to have the resupply chain to make it possible for them to engage in suppressive fire.

It is simply astounding how many rounds the military fires for each wounding hit, but it's intentional and strategic.

Cheers.

So you don't think it would be a good idea to train the police to shoot well, and whenever a terrorist head popped up, 1 shot for 1 kill?

Sorry, my training was, identify your target and then shoot. Spray and pray used to be the untrained terrorist tactic.

[MaeJoMTB]

But........Did you know there were over 50,000 rounds of small arms ammunition fired by US forces for each enemy KIA in Vietnam, (lets not try and be smart about this figure..... most reading this were not there) and In a 10 minute fire fight one night in Northern Ireland, Cross Maglen in 1977 my section fired..... a total of 1500 round were expended..... How many the opposing force fired..... don't know, (they never filed an ammo expenditure report)

So you think poorly trained army conscripts dumped in a foreign war zone should have the same skill sets as well trained police sniper specialists on their home ground?

Edited November 21, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[JoeLing]

Is this really what happened or a joke ?

It happened, though quite awhile ago now.

Reading up on the whole "72 virgins" and women bit. Months, years even, of material out there about it. It's something that has been debated almost since the invention of Islam and like many matters, in all religions, is subject to interpretation and re-interpretation every generation or so by various scholars. Some believe that a woman's only reward will be to be reunited with her husband and children. Others think her rewards will be to be beautiful, happy and never dissatisfied with her husband (and be virginal in perpetuity). Still others have decided that female suicide bombers will be reborn as the "fairest" of the 72 virgins given to male bombers (seems the woman gets the short end of the stick every time this issue is interpreted and re-interpreted - by men of course).

One Afghani female suicide bomber allegedly decided not to go through with it at the last minute because supposedly she didn't want to have to deal with 72 male virgins in heaven. That's the only reference I could find to women getting male virgins and I suspect she was told that by her male relatives and religious leaders who thought that a woman would be just as excited over the prospect of 72 virgins as a man would be.

"Although Muhammad was heard promising that “round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness: if thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered pearls,” Muslim scholars are emphatic that the pretty virgin boys in Paradise are not there for the women.’"

No surprise there I'm sure. However, as with any religion, people will believe almost anything they are told, especially if it comes from someone they think is knowledgeable on the subject such as a religious leader espousing the rewards one could expect for dying.

I mean it's no less incredulous than most other things they believe without question so why not ?

Just wondering what kind of propaganda scholar would translate from the

traditional Arabic something like:" ... if thou seest them, thou wouldst think them ...."

Sounds to me more like British Bible crap language than proper Arabic translation.

But yes, your right, people will believe almost everything they're told or read on the internet ...

Edited November 21, 2015 by JoeLing

[cephei]

Police fired 5,000+ rounds to kill 5 terrorists?????

I think a bit more training is needed here.

That is to destroy evidences. You would not want any witnesses to be alive, would only bring somebody in troubles.

[Nobbie49]

I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would be grateful let alone be delighted when given 72 virgins. I mean VIRGINS! and 72 of them at that. Give me 2 Thai hookers anytime.

[car720]

I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would be grateful let alone be delighted when given 72 virgins. I mean VIRGINS! and 72 of them at that. Give me 2 Thai hookers anytime.

and the real irony is that nobody ever tells them that they have to remain virgins.

Can you imagine being surrounded by 72 squawking, whining women.

[oztaurus]

Police fired 5,000+ rounds to kill 5 terrorists?????

I think a bit more training is needed here.

It is about time that Australia capitalised on its expertise and started hiring out Martin Bryant http://members.iimetro.com.au/~hubbca/port_arthur.htm

to train police and special forces around the world - nobody in history has ever come close to his Kill/Injured ratio and his ratio of shots fired to K/I effectiveness, at lightning speed. I am not even sure that Hollywood's action heroes could do better.

The French police could learn a thing or two.

[Enoon]

Religion is evil.

Surely it is a persons interpretation of religion and the way that they act upon their interpretation that is "good" or "evil"?

A chisel may be used to create a beautiful carving or it may be used to blind someone. The chisel is not good or evil, it's merely a tool to carry out the will of the person who holds it.

Also there is the obvious case that evil men will use whatever means they can to facilitate their evil.

For instance the Salvation Army (a Christian orientated group) spends a lot of time helping the less fortunate. My cousin is one of them and and during Christmas (something that I do not celebrate) they will be delivering Christmas supplies to the less well off in the the UK.

Now, the "Salvs" have had problems recently with cases of child abuse in some of their orphanages. That is not a result of their Christian orientation, it is because people with such tendencies will gravitate towards and infiltrate organizations and systems that facilitate their activities.

Schools, the Boy Scout movement, childrens choirs and youth groups are not evil because evil men use them for their own ends.

Maybe you are inspired (as were the Nazis and, apparently, many who post on TV) by Nietzsches attitude to religion. In this case Christianity:

"Christianity is called the religion of pity. Pity stands opposed to the tonic emotions which heighten our vitality: it has a depressing effect. We are deprived of strength when we feel pity. That loss of strength which suffering as such inflicts on life is still further increased and multiplied by pity. Pity makes suffering contagious."

It sort of sounds like something that ISIS would say doesn't it?

[MZurf]

Police fired 5,000+ rounds to kill 5 terrorists?????

I think a bit more training is needed here.

I posted this in another thread. It was probably what's called "suppressive fire." They shoot a lot of ammo, usually from fully auto weapons to make the bad guys keep their heads down and to keep them from returning fire. It also keeps them from spraying the neighborhood of innocents if they should so choose. The bad guys aren't going to have the resupply chain to make it possible for them to engage in suppressive fire.

It is simply astounding how many rounds the military fires for each wounding hit, but it's intentional and strategic.

Cheers.

https://www.quora.com/How-many-bullets-shells-in-a-war-actually-hit-the-enemy

[Srikcir]

"Police fired more than 5,000 rounds in the shoot out in St Denis."

If three police men were shooting the SIG 516 semi-automatic continously over a two-minute period, they would expend a total of 4,500-5,400 rounds. Considering the armed targets were barricaded in a building, explosives going off, and the siege lasted seven hours, firing more than 5,000 rounds is hardly excessive.

[Tonto21]

But........Did you know there were over 50,000 rounds of small arms ammunition fired by US forces for each enemy KIA in Vietnam, (lets not try and be smart about this figure..... most reading this were not there) and In a 10 minute fire fight one night in Northern Ireland, Cross Maglen in 1977 my section fired..... a total of 1500 round were expended..... How many the opposing force fired..... don't know, (they never filed an ammo expenditure report)

So you think poorly trained army conscripts dumped in a foreign war zone should have the same skill sets as well trained police sniper specialists on their home ground?

No ‘MaeJoMTB’ Firstly I don’t think for one minute that; “poorly trained army conscripts dumped in a foreign war zone should have the same skill sets as well trained police sniper specialists on their home ground”? This could be said of a large portion of the US troops that went to Vietnam......Mostly conscripts.... not all. The British army in 1977 was not a conscript army and each solider that went to N Ireland, under 'OP BANNER' carry out four months specialist training and marksmanship was high on the things covered. Just a little fact for you..... During the 70's the British army was regarded by most armed forces around the world as an authority on 'Fighting In Built Up Areas', (FIBUA)..... This was all down to the amount of training and deployment.

I respect your view, but find it a little warped as you obviously don't have experience in fire arms or there use in an urban environment..... And the realities of dealing with armed engagements like this....... From what you and some others have written regarding ammo expenditure your knowledge base comes from 'Hollywood' movies... Do you really think snipers killed these terrorists? ...... It is almost certain that these firefights were ended with small Cal, (9MM) high rate of fire Sub machine guns....Up close, personal and very dirty.....

I've just re edited my post...... As I did finish it with being a little rude to you........ New Ending: 'MaeJoMTB'..... You are basing, what could be seen a rational thinking as fact..... However you have no actual experience in this area do you? Stop digging!

Edited November 21, 2015 by Tonto21

[robertson468]

Religion is evil.

Religion is not evil, man is evil who manipulates it for his own purpose and kills others in the so called name of religion.