Putin sends air-defense missiles to Syria to deter Turkey

[webfact]

Putin sends air-defense missiles to Syria to deter Turkey
By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV

MOSCOW (AP) — In a move raising the potential threat of a Russia-NATO conflict, Russia said Wednesday it will deploy long-range air defense missiles to its base in Syria and destroy any target that may threaten its warplanes following the downing of a Russian military jet by Turkey.

The incident was the first time in half a century that a NATO member shot down a Russian plane. If Russia responds by downing a Turkish plane, NATO member Turkey could proclaim itself under attack and ask the alliance for military assistance.

Most observers believe that a direct military confrontation is unlikely, but that the shooting down of the plane will further fuel the Syrian conflict and complicate international peace efforts.

The situation is also alarming because the Russian and Turkish presidents both pose as strong leaders and would be reluctant to back down and seek a compromise.

The S-400 missiles, which Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered sent to the Hemeimeem air base in Syria's coastal province of Latakia, just 50 kilometers (30 miles) away from the border with Turkey, are capable of striking targets within a 400-kilometer (250-mile) range with deadly precision. The military also moved the navy missile cruiser Moskva closer to the shore to help protect Russian warplanes with its long-range Fort air defense system.

"It will be ready to destroy any aerial target posing a potential danger to our aircraft," Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said at a meeting with military officials. He also announced the severance of all military ties with Turkey and said that from now on, Russian bombers will always be escorted by fighters on combat missions over Syria.

Ozgur Unluhisarcikli, director of the German Marshall Fund in Ankara, said it is possible Russia could down a Turkish plane.

"Turkish planes violate the Syrian border daily, either for reconnaissance flights or for anti-IS operations," he said. "In the same way that Turkey argues it has rules of engagement, Russia could also declare its own rules of engagement, saying it has the right to protect the skies of its ally."

The Russian plane's downing marked a dramatic turnaround in relations between Russia and Turkey, who have proclaimed themselves to be "strategic partners" in the past and developed booming economic ties despite differences over Syria.

Putin described the Turkish action as a "crime" and a "stab in the back," and called Turkey an "accomplice of terrorists." In a sign of the escalating tensions, protesters in Moscow hurled eggs and stones at the Turkish Embassy, breaking windows in the compound. Police cleared the area and made some arrests shortly after the protest began.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has often been compared to Putin for his authoritarian ways, said Wednesday that his country doesn't wish to escalate tensions with Russia.

Speaking at an Organization of Islamic Cooperation economy meeting in Istanbul, Erdogan said Turkey favors "peace, dialogue and diplomacy." He defended his country's move to shoot down the plane saying: "No one should expect Turkey to stay silent to border violations or the violation of its rights."

Putin has dismissed Turkey's claim that the Russian warplane intruded its airspace, voicing particular annoyance about Ankara turning to NATO instead of speaking to Russia, "as if it were us who shot down a Turkish plane."

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg in turn said that the downing of the plane "highlights the need to strengthen mechanisms to avoid such incidents in the future."

"We should not sleepwalk into unintended escalation," he wrote in an op-ed that is to be published Thursday and was made available to The Associated Press.

Iran meanwhile lashed out at Turkey, with the official IRNA news agency quoting Presidednt Hassan Rouhani as saying Ankara is responsible for the heightened tensions in the region.

One of the Russian pilots was killed by militants in Syria after bailing out, while his crewmate was rescued by Syrian army commandos and delivered in good condition to the Russian base early Wednesday. A Russian marine was also killed by the militants during the rescue mission.

Speaking in televised comments from the Russian base in Syria, the surviving navigator of the downed plane, Capt. Konstantin Murakhtin, denied that his jet veered into Turkey's airspace "even for a single second." He also rejected Turkey's claim that it had issued repeated warnings to the Russian crew before shooting down the plane.

Putin said the Foreign Ministry's warning for Russians not to visit Turkey was needed "because we can't exclude some other incidents following what happened yesterday and our citizens in Turkey could be in significant danger."

Leading Russian tourist agencies have already suspended the sales of tour packages to Turkey, a significant blow to the country, which saw nearly 4.5 million Russian visitors last year, second only to German tourists.

Osman Ayik, the head of the Turkish Hoteliers Federation, told Taraf newpaper Wednesday that a decline in Russian tourists visiting Turkey would be a "disaster" for the tourism sector.

If Russia-Turkey tensions escalate further, both countries potentially could inflict significant pain on each other in many areas.

Russia was the biggest source of Turkish imports last year, worth $25 billion, which mostly accounted for Russian gas supplies. Most Turkish exports to Russia are textiles and food, and Turkish construction companies have won a sizable niche of the Russian market.

Unluhisarcikli said that along with economic moves, Russia may also increase its support to Syrian Kurdish groups, which have been fighting against IS but not against the Syrian regime. So far, Russia has refrained from doing so as not to anger Turkey, but now it could go ahead with plans to open an office in the Syrian Kurdish regions and supply arms to the fighters, Unluhisarcikli said.

Analysts said Turkey doesn't have the option of closing the Turkish Straits to Russia, which has used the route that connects the Black Sea to the Mediterranean to supply its forces in Syria. According to the Montreux Convention, which sets out international rules for using the straits, Turkey can only make the move if the two countries are formally at war.

Even if Russia downs a Turkish plane, Ankara can't close the straits unless it formally declares war on Moscow, according to Giray Sadik of Ankara's Yildirim Beyazit University.

Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu sought to ease tensions Wednesday, calling Russia Turkey's "friend and neighbor" and insisting relations cannot be "sacrificed to accidents of communication." He told his party's lawmakers that Turkey didn't know the plane was brought down Tuesday was Russian until Moscow announced it.

Turkey has informed the United Nations that two Russian planes disregarded warnings and violated Turkish airspace "to a depth of 1.36 miles and 1.15 miles in length for 17 seconds."

Russia's Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov shrugged off the Turkish argument that its rules of engagement required it to shoot down the plane, pointing at the 2012 downing of a Turkish warplane by Syria in its airspace. He said Ankara argued in that case that a brief incursion wasn't reason to shoot down its jet. He also pointed at routine violations of Greece's airspace by Turkish combat planes.

He said the Turkish action was a "planned provocation" and rejected his Turkish counterpart's proposal to meet at the sidelines of some international forum in the coming days to try to ease tensions.

Before Tuesday's incident, Russia and the West appeared to be inching toward joining efforts to fight the Islamic State group following the Nov. 13 attacks in Paris and the Oct. 31 bombing of a Russian airliner over Egypt's Sinai desert. The Islamic State group claimed responsibility for both attacks.

The downing of the warplane came as French President Francois Hollande was visiting Washington prior to a trip to Moscow set for Thursday in a bid to narrow the rift between the West and Russia and agree on a joint action against the IS.

"On NATO's side, I think there is a strong desire not to jeopardize the diplomatic mission of President Hollande," said Bruno Lete, a senior analyst at the German Marshall Fund in Brussels.

Lavrov said that Russia remains committed to efforts to try to negotiate a Syria peace deal, but emphasized the need to take action against the Islamic State group's sponsors. He accused Turkey of helping IS by buying oil from the group, and said that "terrorists" used Turkish territory to prepare terror attacks against other countries, which he didn't name.
___

Associated Press writers Suzan Fraser in Ankara, John-Thor Dahlburg in Brussels, Zeina Karam in Beirut, Nataliya Vasilyeva and Jim Heintz in Moscow contributed to this report.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-11-26

[ezzra]

The war of Gog and Magogg, where the Russian pride has been badly hurt by downing of the jetfighter and the

passenger plane,

now those idiot Turks went and did what no one dare to do since the 50'. actually down a plane for air space

incursions... kinda reminiscence of the Korean airliner flight 007 shot down by the Russian years back for the same

reason... now that the shoe is on the other foot...

Interesting days ahead of us....

[DirtyDan]

I hear these Russian surface-to-air missiles are also quite effective at dealing with any stray Boeing 777s that wander into the wrong skies.

[BuaBS]

If you're flying Turkish airways , you might think about switching airlines.

[sirineou]

Not sure if Putin provoked Turkey in to shooting his plane down I wonder how many concessions he will get for the price of a plane and a couple of soldiers.

[DoctorG]

I actually believe Russia in this instance.

Don't believe I have ever said that before.

[sirineou]

I actually believe Russia in this instance.

Don't believe I have ever said that before.

I am not very knowledgeable in this issue, so I am honestly asking,

why would Turkey shoot a Russian plane with out provocation, What is the Up side for Turkey?

I can see what Putin is getting out of this, in the case of this threads ,an argument for the need of missiles , and who knows what other concessions to get kim to calm down, But what is Turkey getting out of this?

[craigt3365]

This ups the game a lot. With so many foreign fighter planes in the area, one mistake by a Russian will be a disaster. Everybody said Russian's entry into this civil war was going to create problems. And it has. They need to cooperate with the coalition. But obviously, won't.

The analysis so far says the plane was in Syria when hit, but did violate Turkish airspace. Which has happened before, a "mistake" admitted by the Russians.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/06/nato-chief-jens-stoltenberg-russia-turkish-airspace-violations-syria

Turkey 'cannot endure' Russian violation of airspace, president says

Recep Tayyip Erdoğan condemns Moscow as Nato says incursions into Turkish airspace do not appear to be accidental

[stephenterry]

Gung- Ho Turks.

[SOTIRIOS]

...this may be 'it'.....

[Usernames]

The Turks have the right to close the Dardanelles to all Russian vessels. Their next convoy will need to be from Siberia or Leningrad.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Usernames

[MobileContent]

I think the Russian have learned their lessons now and bringing in the S-400 air defense system goes into the right direction.

As for some posters talking about the current coalition, lets not fool ourselves as the coalition is supporting other terror organisations such as Al Nusra Front and they have been knowing for a long time that the Turks have been sleeping with ISIS for a long time.

Also great to know that the Russian might open an office in Kurdish controlled area within Syria.

Here is a nice quote from Sultan Erdogan in 2012.

In 2012, Ankara accused Syria of shooting down a Turkish F-4 Phantom. That plane crash-landed in the Mediterranean after veering into Syrian airspace. In response, an outraged Erdogan lambasted the Syrian military for acting in haste. "A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack," he told Parliament at the time.

[craigt3365]

I think the Russian have learned their lessons now and bringing in the S-400 air defense system goes into the right direction.

As for some posters talking about the current coalition, lets not fool ourselves as the coalition is supporting other terror organisations such as Al Nusra Front and they have been knowing for a long time that the Turks have been sleeping with ISIS for a long time.

Also great to know that the Russian might open an office in Kurdish controlled area within Syria.

Here is a nice quote from Sultan Erdogan in 2012.

In 2012, Ankara accused Syria of shooting down a Turkish F-4 Phantom. That plane crash-landed in the Mediterranean after veering into Syrian airspace. In response, an outraged Erdogan lambasted the Syrian military for acting in haste. "A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack," he told Parliament at the time.

The S-400 is a grave mistake. Too many coalition planes in the air and Russia is not cooperating with them very well. If they accidentally shot down a coalition plane, we'll have WW3 on our hands.

Turkey has been openly supporting the Turkmen rebels in their "war" with Assad. As Assad has treated this minority terribly in the past.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34910389

Under the Assad regimes in Syria, the Turkmen were banned from publishing or writing in Turkish. The government did not recognise them or other ethnic groups as minorities, preferring to stress the unity of the Arab nation.

Supported by Turkey, a staunch foe of Bashar al-Assad, they took up arms against the regime soon after the start of the uprising in 2011.

Syrian Turkmen parties also united under the Syrian Turkmen Assembly, which is affiliated to Syria's Western- and Gulf-backed National Coalition opposition group.

And no, they are not sleeping with ISIS, they are fighting them...unlike Russia.

Their main opponents are the regular Syrian army and the Islamic State (IS) militant group.

We should be supporting these rebels, not bombing them like Russia is doing.

[MobileContent]

I think the Russian have learned their lessons now and bringing in the S-400 air defense system goes into the right direction.

As for some posters talking about the current coalition, lets not fool ourselves as the coalition is supporting other terror organisations such as Al Nusra Front and they have been knowing for a long time that the Turks have been sleeping with ISIS for a long time.

Also great to know that the Russian might open an office in Kurdish controlled area within Syria.

Here is a nice quote from Sultan Erdogan in 2012.

In 2012, Ankara accused Syria of shooting down a Turkish F-4 Phantom. That plane crash-landed in the Mediterranean after veering into Syrian airspace. In response, an outraged Erdogan lambasted the Syrian military for acting in haste. "A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack," he told Parliament at the time.

The S-400 is a grave mistake. Too many coalition planes in the air and Russia is not cooperating with them very well. If they accidentally shot down a coalition plane, we'll have WW3 on our hands.

Turkey has been openly supporting the Turkmen rebels in their "war" with Assad. As Assad has treated this minority terribly in the past.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34910389

Under the Assad regimes in Syria, the Turkmen were banned from publishing or writing in Turkish. The government did not recognise them or other ethnic groups as minorities, preferring to stress the unity of the Arab nation.

Supported by Turkey, a staunch foe of Bashar al-Assad, they took up arms against the regime soon after the start of the uprising in 2011.

Syrian Turkmen parties also united under the Syrian Turkmen Assembly, which is affiliated to Syria's Western- and Gulf-backed National Coalition opposition group.

And no, they are not sleeping with ISIS, they are fighting them...unlike Russia.

Their main opponents are the regular Syrian army and the Islamic State (IS) militant group.

We should be supporting these rebels, not bombing them like Russia is doing.

The S-400 is a grave mistake. Too many coalition planes in the air and Russia is not cooperating with them very well. If they accidentally shot down a coalition plane, we'll have WW3 on our hands.

No worry, only Turkish planes will fall off the skies and the West will do nothing and will come up with a document to ask for restrain. The UNSC is blocked any way and NATO and the Europeans will any way back-off. As for the US, nobody really take them serious and the last war the US won was WW2 in combination with the Russians. Every war the US started has been a failure.

All Assad has to do is giving Turkey a warning not to violate Syrian airspace (2012) and if they do fly in, then the missiles will bring them down. Their will be a lot of condemnation and live goes on.

[oneday]

Putin wants to turn this into World War III. He is begging for a fight.

[losworld]

I actually believe Russia in this instance.

Don't believe I have ever said that before.

I am not very knowledgeable in this issue, so I am honestly asking,

why would Turkey shoot a Russian plane with out provocation, What is the Up side for Turkey?

I can see what Putin is getting out of this, in the case of this threads ,an argument for the need of missiles , and who knows what other concessions to get kim to calm down, But what is Turkey getting out of this?

This is retaliation for bombing the oilfields which ISIS is using to sell bootleg oil to Turkey for 10 a barrel. It is very profitable. Additionally, this ends any co-operation between NATO and Russia in Syria which was about as probable as a Palestinian peace deal. You should be asking the question why did the attacks occur in France which led to the bombing of Syria and the introduction of ground troops. People need to realize ISIS is created to get rid of Assad and anything else is just collateral damage.

[losworld]

Putin wants to turn this into World War III. He is begging for a fight.

You are either misinformed or delusional. Putin has actually shown a great deal of restraint.

[DirtyDan]

Putin wants to turn this into World War III. He is begging for a fight.

Or is he merely testing all his borders and reinforcing them?

Russia has invaded Georgia and Crimea without the world being too upset. Now they fly over Turkey but actually held accountable for illegal incursions (assuming we believe the Western media saying the jet was in actually in Turkic air space).

Some interesting reads:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/12/30/yes-russias-military-is-getting-more-aggressive/

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21643220-russias-aggression-ukraine-part-broader-and-more-dangerous-confrontation (I like this one)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-myth-of-russian-aggression/5394632 (Interestingly showing a more Russian bias - Bangkok based writer )

Edited November 26, 2015 by DirtyDan

[craigt3365]

I actually believe Russia in this instance.

Don't believe I have ever said that before.

I am not very knowledgeable in this issue, so I am honestly asking,

why would Turkey shoot a Russian plane with out provocation, What is the Up side for Turkey?

I can see what Putin is getting out of this, in the case of this threads ,an argument for the need of missiles , and who knows what other concessions to get kim to calm down, But what is Turkey getting out of this?

This is retaliation for bombing the oilfields which ISIS is using to sell bootleg oil to Turkey for 10 a barrel. It is very profitable. Additionally, this ends any co-operation between NATO and Russia in Syria which was about as probable as a Palestinian peace deal. You should be asking the question why did the attacks occur in France which led to the bombing of Syria and the introduction of ground troops. People need to realize ISIS is created to get rid of Assad and anything else is just collateral damage.

ISIS was not created to get rid of Assad. But that is one of their goals, to create a large islamic state across the middle east.

Turkey did this because of Russia's continued violation of their airspace, the bombing of rebels in Syria they admit they support, and for the treatment of ethnic Turks in the Crimea. Which Russia annexed from Ukraine at the end of a barrel and is now treating very poorly. Strained relations due to Russia's aggression.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

[Pakboong]

I actually believe Russia in this instance.

Don't believe I have ever said that before.

I am not very knowledgeable in this issue, so I am honestly asking,

why would Turkey shoot a Russian plane with out provocation, What is the Up side for Turkey?

I can see what Putin is getting out of this, in the case of this threads ,an argument for the need of missiles , and who knows what other concessions to get kim to calm down, But what is Turkey getting out of this?

This is retaliation for bombing the oilfields which ISIS is using to sell bootleg oil to Turkey for 10 a barrel. It is very profitable. Additionally, this ends any co-operation between NATO and Russia in Syria which was about as probable as a Palestinian peace deal. You should be asking the question why did the attacks occur in France which led to the bombing of Syria and the introduction of ground troops. People need to realize ISIS is created to get rid of Assad and anything else is just collateral damage.

ISIS was not created to get rid of Assad. But that is one of their goals, to create a large islamic state across the middle east.

Turkey did this because of Russia's continued violation of their airspace, the bombing of rebels in Syria they admit they support, and for the treatment of ethnic Turks in the Crimea. Which Russia annexed from Ukraine at the end of a barrel and is now treating very poorly. Strained relations due to Russia's aggression.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

“ISIS is a reality and we have to accept that we cannot eradicate a well-organized and popular establishment such as the Islamic State; therefore I urge my western colleagues to revise their mindset about Islamic political currents, put aside their cynical mentalité and thwart Vladimir Putin's plans to crush Syrian Islamist revolutionaries,” Hakan Fidan, the head of Turkey's National Intelligence Organization, known as MİT

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[Rancid]

I actually believe Russia in this instance.

Don't believe I have ever said that before.

I am not very knowledgeable in this issue, so I am honestly asking,

why would Turkey shoot a Russian plane with out provocation, What is the Up side for Turkey?

I can see what Putin is getting out of this, in the case of this threads ,an argument for the need of missiles , and who knows what other concessions to get kim to calm down, But what is Turkey getting out of this?

It's an open secret Turkey helps ISIS as it seems to have dreams of expanding back to the old Ottoman Empire borders that included Syria.

Additionally Turkish President Ergodan's son owns the company that ships the oil from ISIS into Turkey, then onships it for sale. A great deal of money is being made for the family.

The Russians have recently started bombing those oil convoys and the Ergodans are naturally not pleased in their reduced cash flow.

Whether that was a warning to back off who knows, but the timing is interesting.

There is a lot of vested interest from many parties to keep ISIS running hence the BS girlie attacks against it that have done nothing. Russia has changed the rules and are killing them for real, many including Turkey are displeased.

[Baerboxer]

I actually believe Russia in this instance.

Don't believe I have ever said that before.

I am not very knowledgeable in this issue, so I am honestly asking,

why would Turkey shoot a Russian plane with out provocation, What is the Up side for Turkey?

I can see what Putin is getting out of this, in the case of this threads ,an argument for the need of missiles , and who knows what other concessions to get kim to calm down, But what is Turkey getting out of this?

This is retaliation for bombing the oilfields which ISIS is using to sell bootleg oil to Turkey for 10 a barrel. It is very profitable. Additionally, this ends any co-operation between NATO and Russia in Syria which was about as probable as a Palestinian peace deal. You should be asking the question why did the attacks occur in France which led to the bombing of Syria and the introduction of ground troops. People need to realize ISIS is created to get rid of Assad and anything else is just collateral damage.

ISIS was not created to get rid of Assad. But that is one of their goals, to create a large islamic state across the middle east.

Turkey did this because of Russia's continued violation of their airspace, the bombing of rebels in Syria they admit they support, and for the treatment of ethnic Turks in the Crimea. Which Russia annexed from Ukraine at the end of a barrel and is now treating very poorly. Strained relations due to Russia's aggression.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

Turkey regularly makes illegal incursions into Syrian and Greek air space and still illegally occupies a large part of Cyprus.

If, as you suggest, Turkey premeditated a plan to shoot down a Russian plane in reprisal for bombing insurgents they support and/or bombing ISIL oil fields as they buy cheap oil from them, then they are warmongers, and very dangerous ones.

Crimea was not historically linked to the Ukraine until Ukrainian USSR dictator Kruschev decided to make it part of his homeland.

Turkey has been a brutal oppressor and aggressor, of ethnic minorities, non Muslims, and it's neighbors throughout history.

Erdogan is a hypocrite and is the sort of loose cannon NATO can do without.

[retarius]

The Turks have the right to close the Dardanelles to all Russian vessels. Their next convoy will need to be from Siberia or Leningrad.

Read the article, they must declare war on Russia to close the straits.

[LuckyNo4]

Putin wants to turn this into World War III. He is begging for a fight.

No, Putin is defending his ally Syria which is the target of illegal regime change by the west who are using ISIS as a cover.

[losworld]

People do need to wake up.

[Usernames]

The Turks have the right to close the Dardanelles to all Russian vessels. Their next convoy will need to be from Siberia or Leningrad.

Read the article, they must declare war on Russia to close the straits.

You can read the Montreaux Convention itself, rather than what somebody says it says. A formal declaration of war is entirely unnecessary. http://cil.nus.edu.sg/rp/il/pdf/1936%20Convention%20Regarding%20the%20Regime%20of%20the%20Straits-pdf.pdf

ARTICLE 20 In time of war, Turkey being belligerent, the provisions of Articles 10 to 18 shall not be applicable; the passage of warships shall be left entire y to the discretion of the Turkish Government. ARTICLE 21 Should Turkey consider herself to be threatened with imminent danger of war she shall have the right to apply the provisions of Article 20 of the present Convention.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Usernames

[Chicog]

Putin wants to turn this into World War III. He is begging for a fight.

No, Putin is defending his ally Syria which is the target of illegal regime change by the west who are using ISIS as a cover.

You could have just said "Putin is defending a war criminal and mass murderer".

[Lukecan]

Putin wants to turn this into World War III. He is begging for a fight.

You are either misinformed or delusional. Putin has actually shown a great deal of restraint.

Yes indeed he has, by annexing crimea, sending his soldiers for "holiday " to "Ukraine. And now he's in Syria.

[Doc46]

I actually believe Russia in this instance.

Don't believe I have ever said that before.

I am not very knowledgeable in this issue, so I am honestly asking,

why would Turkey shoot a Russian plane with out provocation, What is the Up side for Turkey?

I can see what Putin is getting out of this, in the case of this threads ,an argument for the need of missiles , and who knows what other concessions to get kim to calm down, But what is Turkey getting out of this?

LiveTarget Practice.