Housing Slump or what ?

[Rancid]

We have an old saying. "There are only three things that matter in property valuation. Location, location, and location."

To me, all of Thailand is a poor location.

Anything and everything about Thailand is bad as far as you're concerned! Get over what ever happened to you out here and enjoy whatever you have out there (and stay there). Mostly, stop being so vindictive and grow up.

Naw, I don't think I'm ready to start doing what you tell me to do, but blabber on anyway.

I do think Thailand is a poor place for farangs to invest in real estate. What have you been doing that has you so edgy? Buying, LOL?

I don't think Thailand is bad for real estate at all, it's just like anywhere else in the world in that timing is everything.

My CM house has the same rental return as my Oz house but cost less than half. Timing, (or luck) I bought it years ago, good price and good location.

So what we have now is a nice bubble and oversupply, when it finally pops will be the time to find a bargain.

I've bought and sold quite a bit here, however the properties always had something going for them, view, fitout or location. If there's lots of competition then your place needs something to make it more desirable than the alternatives.

As to OP, this may not apply but one house I had wouldn't sell so I bit the bullet and finished off the things I hadn't wanted to put the money into. Then sold straight away.

[Farangdanny]

Ban Wiang Doi (aka 'Ban Mia Farang' to the locals) ain't all that great a place though.

Too far out of town, poor internet choices and liable to flood.

What rubbish ! I have lived here for 11 years. have fiber optic internet, best of all services, less pollution, no traffic chaos, good shops, never flooded. I can get to chaotic city in short time whenever I want.

[bangmai]

I know its another market.. But this, from the mouth of an agent, is fairly damning..

http://lovepattayaproperty.com/en-gb/news/2015/11/28/pattaya-property-market-update

Another agent was similarly honest on the stickman interviews a couple of months ago.

The article is actually a promotion of one developer, who gets quite a lot of press on Drummond....or just google his name. Notice they don't give one specific example of price discounts?

[Robert24]

Maybe it's because we're in a worldwide deflationary recession.

recession? where?

[Robert24]

Cant see why your blaming the housing market for not being able to sell. Its pretty easy really, if your house is priced to sell it will sell very quickly.

This seems like a silly comment ! Everyone agrees that the housing market is in a slump. Priced to sell !! It does not matter what the price is if NO ONE IS LOOKING !

correct. it's liquidity that's the problem in the property market here. Hence my comment previously to keep it at the current asking price but advertise yourself and give it some time, you may well have to wait a few years.

[Robert24]

Thais don't care about Euro kitchen, quality electric, insulation and all that nonsense. This is your mistake. They care about a nice shell and a car in front of the house. You simply don't understand the market.

Why would you want a nice kitchen if trying to sell when most Thais get there food in plastic bags from the market.

I understand the market much better than you assume. My brother and I and a friend have been, independently, building houses to sell here for a long time. The market we aim for is farang with Thai wife. He understands the quality, she just wants the house !! The particular house I mentioned is one very nice house that is being sold for less than the cost of completing it. That is why I am so surprised.

to be fair, the market has been like this now for a while in Chiang Mai. I don't think this is a surprise. I bought my house in Chiang Mai in 2012 and there was a massive oversupply of houses already back then. What is in demand though is if you have land in a good location. Those land prices have sky rocketed over the last years. And I suspect they go up even more.

[Farangdanny]

Cant see why your blaming the housing market for not being able to sell. Its pretty easy really, if your house is priced to sell it will sell very quickly.

This seems like a silly comment ! Everyone agrees that the housing market is in a slump. Priced to sell !! It does not matter what the price is if NO ONE IS LOOKING !

correct. it's liquidity that's the problem in the property market here. Hence my comment previously to keep it at the current asking price but advertise yourself and give it some time, you may well have to wait a few years.

Understand, but I am not desperate for the money. I just don't want to keep the house clean, grass cut etc.etc. for a few years, so I will sell it for whatever I can get. Money is not the problem. I am really surprised that such a nice house with wonderful views over rice paddies to temple on Doi Saket in distance is of no interest to anyone !

[Farangdanny]

Thais don't care about Euro kitchen, quality electric, insulation and all that nonsense. This is your mistake. They care about a nice shell and a car in front of the house. You simply don't understand the market.

Why would you want a nice kitchen if trying to sell when most Thais get there food in plastic bags from the market.

I understand the market much better than you assume. My brother and I and a friend have been, independently, building houses to sell here for a long time. The market we aim for is farang with Thai wife. He understands the quality, she just wants the house !! The particular house I mentioned is one very nice house that is being sold for less than the cost of completing it. That is why I am so surprised.

to be fair, the market has been like this now for a while in Chiang Mai. I don't think this is a surprise. I bought my house in Chiang Mai in 2012 and there was a massive oversupply of houses already back then. What is in demand though is if you have land in a good location. Those land prices have sky rocketed over the last years. And I suspect they go up even more.

Don't know where you got that idea from ? I also have a nice piece of land (156 sq.wah.)walled, electric, water, etc. I am offering it for 20% less than I paid over 2 years ago. No one looks !!!

[bangmai]

Cant see why your blaming the housing market for not being able to sell. Its pretty easy really, if your house is priced to sell it will sell very quickly.

This seems like a silly comment ! Everyone agrees that the housing market is in a slump. Priced to sell !! It does not matter what the price is if NO ONE IS LOOKING !

correct. it's liquidity that's the problem in the property market here. Hence my comment previously to keep it at the current asking price but advertise yourself and give it some time, you may well have to wait a few years.

Understand, but I am not desperate for the money. I just don't want to keep the house clean, grass cut etc.etc. for a few years, so I will sell it for whatever I can get. Money is not the problem. I am really surprised that such a nice house with wonderful views over rice paddies to temple on Doi Saket in distance is of no interest to anyone !

Ditch the yellow paint...with the wrought iron it looks like a tortilla shop. Neutral sells...anything else is too personalized.

[chiang mai]

Whenever I look at houses with the idea of potentially buying, one of the very first things I look at and an absolute deal maker/breaker for me is the ventilation in the roof. If the house doesn't have soffit/eves vents, doesn't have roof/gable/ridge vents, I loose interest straight away. Simply, without those things the house will be too hot and if the builder didn't bother to include them in a new build in the tropics, what else didn't he bother to do.

I don't mean to cause offense with the above and I'm not pointing a finger at the OP's house because I haven't seen it so I can't comment, just an observation however about why some places sell and some don't. The house I bought a year ago that I now live in has four large gable vents and full eves soffits and it really pays off.

[northernphil]

Estate agent is the cause. They don't do anything.

Advertise yourself (ensure 2 languages). Take your time to construct the ad well. Use good pictures. Research the market and place ads on sites and locations where things shift. Ensure you are contactable. Finally ensure everyone in your neighbourhood knows it is for sale. In Thailand, houses are much more likely to be sold someone already living in the same street / moo bahn than in Farangland.

I think you are right . Moved up here North of Chang Rai about 8 years ago lost money on the sale of house in Hua-Hin. Needed to find the real Thailand not Ghetto Thailand. Bought a nice house in Maechan for 1.9 million. I decide the garden and house needed too much maintenance , stuck an advert on the gate and sold it for 2.5 million in about 3 months , had a house built on land we bought , total cost about 1.3 million. But now I think these times are over. Last year 4 bars in my town ,one busy 'till 2am , now 3 closed and last night only me , a ladyboy and 2 others in a bar which I think will close soon. All very sad.

[Airalee]

Not including the issues pointed out by Chiang Mai and bangmai above, this is what I see.

Kitchen... No ventilation hood above cooktop. A window in front of the cooktop does not suffice. Is there an oven? No room for a full size refrigerator. Large gap between refrigerator location and counter to the left. Why doesn't the counter extend to the end of the window? European kitchen? Not like any I have ever seen, but I have never been to Albania.

Bathroom... Pink tiles with rose motif tiles set in. No thanks.

General style... 4 different kinds of unattractive tiles throughout the house. No continuity.

Outside... Garish driveway tiles, no landscaping other than grass. No curb appeal.

[bangmai]

Chiang Rai is another place, where the old shop houses in prime locations are more liquid than custom homes outside of town.

[bazza40]

"the wife is a broker"

If you buy real estate in Thailand, you will be "broker" than renting.

Real estate bubble? What's that?

555

I disagree. I have already saved more rent than the money I put out for land and house in someone else's name and I have a lease on. You can even figure in the interest if you like. Then there are other factore which would be paricular to a person's situation.

However, for most foreigners I would agree you are correct. That is quite the problem in Chiang Mai now.

I am really surprised by the number of people who say that it is better to rent !!! It has been proven over many, many years that that statement is pure bunkum, nearly always used by people who can not afford to buy. I have bought every house I ever lived in, in five different counties. I always sold at a profit and in two cases, more than doubled my money !!

Normally I would agree with you; however, this is Thailand. The fact as a falang you cannot own the land underlying whatever structure you put on it is a deal-breaker for me. Yes, you can own a condo apartment; however, the overall ownership of the condo has to be 51% Thai.

There are so many stories on TV ( including the OP ) of people who buy and then cannot sell. I'd suggest there aren't too many falangs who can claim they are profiting on real estate here, except perhaps those that bought 20 years ago. So yes, I think it's better to rent, even though I can easily afford to buy.

[TheSiemReaper]

The lesson here is - do your research before you invest in something and not at the point you intend to sell. This is a pure buyer's market and property will only sell if it meets the buyer's valuation. The fact that both Thai and farang have been hoist by their own greed is pretty much irrelevant to that.

This has been a 'pure buyers' market' ever since the European economy went pear shaped some ten years ago and has never recovered. Before that every Sunday would see some aging farang being scootered around my neck of the woods by his ti rak looking for something to buy her. I agree that a lot of greedy farang have contributed to the devastation of Phuket being enabled by the local bent OBJ's to throw up their Godawful multi storey condos in predominantly residential neighbourhoods, thus further devaluing their immediate neighbour's home's value at a stroke. I fortunately do not fall into this category but feel for the poor buggers who do.

I now also understand that to Thais, a structure is of very little importance/value, it's the land it sits on they prize, their coming from a culture where bamboo shacks were routinely replaced every year or so. They simply don't share Westerner's different value system.

I notice your nik. Toying with a relocation. How goes it in SR? Lovely town. Completely different vibe to here.

Already relocated. :-) I like Chiang Mai, it's not SR for sure but variety is the spice of life, right? :-)

[Dante99]

Cant see why your blaming the housing market for not being able to sell. Its pretty easy really, if your house is priced to sell it will sell very quickly.

This seems like a silly comment ! Everyone agrees that the housing market is in a slump. Priced to sell !! It does not matter what the price is if NO ONE IS LOOKING !

correct. it's liquidity that's the problem in the property market here. Hence my comment previously to keep it at the current asking price but advertise yourself and give it some time, you may well have to wait a few years.

Understand, but I am not desperate for the money. I just don't want to keep the house clean, grass cut etc.etc. for a few years, so I will sell it for whatever I can get. Money is not the problem. I am really surprised that such a nice house with wonderful views over rice paddies to temple on Doi Saket in distance is of no interest to anyone !

Re: photo included with the above post but not shown here.

Could be a strange camera lens but

Check the level on the lower edge of the roof over the garage and the lower edge of the roof directly above, they do not run at the same angle.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Dante99

[Lampang2]

Just let falangs own land and house.

Market recovery in 5 minutes.

[LivinLOS]

Cant see why your blaming the housing market for not being able to sell. Its pretty easy really, if your house is priced to sell it will sell very quickly.

This seems like a silly comment ! Everyone agrees that the housing market is in a slump. Priced to sell !! It does not matter what the price is if NO ONE IS LOOKING !

correct. it's liquidity that's the problem in the property market here. Hence my comment previously to keep it at the current asking price but advertise yourself and give it some time, you may well have to wait a few years.

Understand, but I am not desperate for the money. I just don't want to keep the house clean, grass cut etc.etc. for a few years, so I will sell it for whatever I can get. Money is not the problem. I am really surprised that such a nice house with wonderful views over rice paddies to temple on Doi Saket in distance is of no interest to anyone !

No offense intended.. But theres 100s perhaps 1000s of houses like this on the east of the city.. Whats the selling point aside from being a bargain ?? Its 'just another house' if its not real cheap.

Thais like new houses.. Theres so many new ones, often with attractive developer finance.. Whats the secret sauce to selling this one.

[williamgeorgeallen]

hard to sell now. I was lucky to offload my 2 houses last year. made a profit on one lost on the other. took years to sell. tried agents, complete waste of time. both sold on baht sold website.

[hml367]

One thing to take into account is the mone source (country) and exchange rates at the time of bringing monies and what happens with the money if the house is sold.

When I moved to Chiang Mai the exchange rate was 44-45 for a few years. Compared to today's rate is quite a difference. It depends which way the money is moving, if it is movung atall.

[bangmai]

Of course I don't want to hijack this thread, but...this is the best movie I have seen in months....No Down Payment, 1957, Joanne Woodward, Tony Randall....It takes a look at the lighter side of exurbia 1957...no nudity or profanity, but totally adult themes. Notice how big the freeways were in LA in 1957...also notice the billboard promising 52 USD per month payments.

[kanook]

We have an old saying. "There are only three things that matter in property valuation. Location, location, and location."

To me, all of Thailand is a poor location.

Any house located on land I can't own is in a poor location.

David

Exactly, and this is another problem with the real estate market here, it is essentially a domestic market with Non Thais excluded. Considering that wages are very low in CM it isn't surprising that the average Thai can't afford to buy a house or if they do, sustain the mortgage. Every month I hear a new story: Thai guy, girl, or family up to their neck in debt looking for a way to escape; renting, selling, renting and moving into a 2K฿ apartment, renting out 1/2 the house to a farang - do I know anyone. Not to mention the crazy things they do here to show off even if they can't afford what they want to buy, like financing their i-phone or taking out 2 loans to buy a truck (borrow the down payment from one bank and then finance the truck with another).

[tomyumchai]

Thais don't care about Euro kitchen, quality electric, insulation and all that nonsense. This is your mistake. They care about a nice shell and a car in front of the house. You simply don't understand the market.

Why would you want a nice kitchen if trying to sell when most Thais get there food in plastic bags from the market.

why waste internal space on a kitchen when a tap, a bowl and a gas bottle with a cooker ring out back in the yard will suffice most thais.....

[chiang mai]

Thais don't care about Euro kitchen, quality electric, insulation and all that nonsense. This is your mistake. They care about a nice shell and a car in front of the house. You simply don't understand the market.

Why would you want a nice kitchen if trying to sell when most Thais get there food in plastic bags from the market.

why waste internal space on a kitchen when a tap, a bowl and a gas bottle with a cooker ring out back in the yard will suffice most thais.....

why waste money on a roof or a toilet, why not just have a tent and a hole in the ground!

[LivinLOS]

Thais don't care about Euro kitchen, quality electric, insulation and all that nonsense. This is your mistake. They care about a nice shell and a car in front of the house. You simply don't understand the market.

Why would you want a nice kitchen if trying to sell when most Thais get there food in plastic bags from the market.

why waste internal space on a kitchen when a tap, a bowl and a gas bottle with a cooker ring out back in the yard will suffice most thais.....

You can laugh.. But I just moved into a decently valuable house (own pool etc) and that was exactly the kitchen..

Stainless sinks out back and a gaz ring burner on a table..

Pool out front people can see tho !!!

[cmsally]

A few years ago when Thais were more optimistic , the trend was to abandon the city and move to a nice moobahn with a flower bed and western kitchen etc. Now, with a depressed economy and inflation, the trend has reversed again, as they realise it is better to be in the city, where they can perhaps have a small business to supplement the salary. Hence reasonably priced property that can be used to produce an income is in more demand.

[kanook]

Thais don't care about Euro kitchen, quality electric, insulation and all that nonsense. This is your mistake. They care about a nice shell and a car in front of the house. You simply don't understand the market.

Why would you want a nice kitchen if trying to sell when most Thais get there food in plastic bags from the market.

why waste internal space on a kitchen when a tap, a bowl and a gas bottle with a cooker ring out back in the yard will suffice most thais.....

why waste money on a roof or a toilet, why not just have a tent and a hole in the ground!

I a knew a Thai guy who was living in a tent in Chiang Rai, but was driving a brand new Fortuner. Like the semi famous quote says and probably should be adopted by the TAT, to help tourists figure this place out quickly; 'It's not what it is, it's what it can be made to look like'.

[LivinLOS]

where they can perhaps have a small business to supplement the salary. Hence reasonably priced property that can be used to produce an income is in more demand.

How does that gel with the fact that on every ring rd of the city, theres rows of unoccupied shophouses, row after row with all vacant.. Some in very prime locations (like right on the promenada junction)..

Surely they cant all be asking too much rent ??

Actually been meaning to photo some of these.. As out the east side of the city there is block after block.. Sometimes 8 plus all empty and brand new never rented.. And further out they just keep breaking ground to make the next batch, while the first lot sit with zero return..

[MaeJoMTB]

where they can perhaps have a small business to supplement the salary. Hence reasonably priced property that can be used to produce an income is in more demand.

How does that gel with the fact that on every ring rd of the city, theres rows of unoccupied shophouses, row after row with all vacant.. Some in very prime locations (like right on the promenada junction)..

Surely they cant all be asking too much rent ??

Actually been meaning to photo some of these.. As out the east side of the city there is block after block.. Sometimes 8 plus all empty and brand new never rented.. And further out they just keep breaking ground to make the next batch, while the first lot sit with zero return..

Then want 5MBht for most of these places, and rents to match.

Promenada is almost empty, not surprising that the shops around it are empty too.

Hardly a prime site, way out of town, and zero public transport.

Anyway, my misses rented the ground floor of a shopfront to sell noodles.

Much better location than Promenada, rent 100bht/day.

Her income 60bht/day.

Very few business making any money in CM at the moment.

And if you can't make much money, no point in paying a high rent.

Everyone appears to be cutting their losses.

Edited December 1, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[LivinLOS]

Dont know.. Those ring roads are busy, and for us out of towners I far prefer to keep to the periphery, doubly so in a car, than the hassle of downtown.. So sure for foot traffic stuff no way, but for vets, services, many businesses, you would think they are solid locations.