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Newbie moving from UK early 2016 - I have loads of questions, hope it's ok post


Mover1

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Hello everyone,


I'm about to move to Thailand early next year for 5 years and have a lot of questions, hopefully it's ok to post them here and get some answers from you experienced expats. If I'm posting in the wrong place then please tell me where to go smile.png :


  1. I'm selling a business and have some rental properties in the uk. The properties are all being sold after April 2016 so i'm not liable for Capital Gains Tax, as long as i'm out the UK for 5 years, is this correct? I'm paying for professional tax advice at the moment but i'm interested if anyone here has some similar recent experience.
  2. How is it best to handle bank accounts when moving to another country? At the moment i've got a few uk accounts, is it best to keep these open and open another account in a Thai bank? Or use an offshore bank? If offshore, which currency is best to use?
  3. I'm about to apply for a Thai visa. I'm a bit confused as to which visa i should be applying for, is it a Tourist Visa valid for 60 days, then keep renewing it every 90 days? I'm 43 yrs old if it makes a difference.
  4. I've been to Thailand 6 times for short (2-3 week) holidays, but i've never rented an apartment on a long term basis. Is there things i should be watching out for? And how do i know it's a reasonable price? Where do i find places for long term rental?
  5. How does living in an apartment in Thailand compare the uk? I mean whats the differences i should be aware of, like kitchen appliances (oven, washing machine, etc), how to get uk tv channels, washing clothes and laundry, cooking, etc? Do i need any essentials to bring with me?
  6. I plan on moving around the country, and visiting other countries, maybe even going around the world at some point. In order to maintain my tax status as a Thai resident, how many days must i be resident in the country so the uk gov is satisfied concerning Capital Gains Tax (It could be a fxxxing big mistake if i get this wrong).
  7. How many days are you allowed back to visit friends and family in the UK for each year?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm excited about the move and also a bit nervous about how unprepared i feel! Any pointers regarding anything i've mentioned above would be really helpful!



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Some of your questions would be better asked (one at a time perhaps?) in the 'Jobs, economy, banking....' forum here on ThaiVisa.

I'm a Brit. I'll offer a thought on your point 2. A lot of UK bank accounts are for UK residents only. So If you tell some of those UK banks that you're moving abroad they may tell you they're going to have to close your account (and give you a new account, perhaps with one of their off-shore banks).

Are you going to try and maintain a UK address while you're living in Thailand? This is a very important consideration indeed.

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Hi AbeSurd,


Thanks for the reply, i'll repost some of the questions in the forum you mentioned.


I'll have to have a chat with the banks and see what i'm supposed to do, i don't know whether they're all for UK residents or not. And ask about each ones off-shore accounts, if they do one.


I wasn't planning on keeping a UK address, would a rental property be ok to do this with even if it's rented out? Can you tell me why this is so important, this isn't something i'd even thought about before as i was told to cut all ties because of tax reasons.

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I suggest keeping your existing bank accounts open and telling nobody apart from the local council that you're moving. Continue to be registered with your Doctor, etc.

You won't be considered a Thai resident if you're on tourist visas.

Getting UK TV channels is not as useful a thing as it might first appear. For a start they're 7 hours behind in the winter so a program that starts at 7pm in the UK will start at 2am in Thailand. I find its better to download TV programs from the internet. American programs can be found easily, a good site for UK programs is named tvchaos - you can get them all there.

As for renting an apartment the first thing to watch out for is the price of the electricity, some of them will overcharge you by 2 or 3 times the going rate. If you rent it directly from the owner you often pay the electric bill when it arrives just like you would do back in the UK but if the apartment rental is 'managed' by either an estate agent or the front office of the apartment block then they will almost certainly add something to each unit of electricity you pay. This is a normal and widely accepted practice, you just need to make sure you don't get ripped off with some outrageous rate.

Secondly you need to check on internet availability, I'm sure this isn't so much of an issue these days, especially in modern buildings but it was when I rented a place in Bangkok in an older building some years back. There were no phone lines available in the area, so no internet connection for me..... I managed to get it sorted in the end but it involved someone knowing someone who was a director at the phone company so I was lucky.

Maintaining visas will be your problem until you're 50 years old and it will become not just harder over time but a real pain in the ass to continuously get new tourist visas.

If you have plenty of money lying around I do recommend the 5 year Thailand Elite membership, it comes with a 5 year visa and your visa issues will disappear with the 1 year stamps and 1 year extensions. It costs 500k Baht which is currently less than £2000 a year so it's not a bad deal overall.

Edited by ukrules
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Hi AbeSurd,
Thanks for the reply, i'll repost some of the questions in the forum you mentioned.
I'll have to have a chat with the banks and see what i'm supposed to do, i don't know whether they're all for UK residents or not. And ask about each ones off-shore accounts, if they do one.
I wasn't planning on keeping a UK address, would a rental property be ok to do this with even if it's rented out? Can you tell me why this is so important, this isn't something i'd even thought about before as i was told to cut all ties because of tax reasons.

If you plan on returning to the UK after the 5 years are up you will find that you suddenly have no credit rating, presumably you also won't have been on the electoral roll for 5 years so opening a bank account will not be easy, even if you deposit a large amount of money. You will need to start from scratch and this can become a real pain, even for small things like getting a mobile phone - no electoral roll record + no bank account = no credit, even for the small things. For this reason I keep an active UK mobile phone and bank account.

I suggest keeping at least one bank account open and not telling them anything. I've heard of people just mentioning that they now live abroad on a visit back to the UK and the banks reaction was to instantly freeze / close all accounts along with their credit cards and overdraft facilities !

There is some obscure regulation which says if you're in the UK for less than a certain number of days per year then you can't be treated as a resident, I think it's 15 days or less - this is from memory so I would check with your advisors on that. I haven't been to the UK for years and don't plan to ever return apart from maybe a short visit so it's not something I've really looked into in much detail. There are also many other rules like the 90 day per year thing but from what I read the greatly reduced number of days limit is (or was) definitive.

There's still plenty of people over here paying UK tax though so you do need to plan it carefully even if you never go back.

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Hi ukrules,


Thanks for the reply. Can you tell me which visa i should be applying for if the tourist one is no good? I haven't heard of the Thailand Elite but will look into it, £9300 is a big unexpected chunk to cough up though! Haha.


Thanks for the tips on renting. Can you give me any pointers on how much the electric rates should be, just so i know i'm not getting ripped off? Are there any websites to check on this?


Cheers smile.png

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Hi ukrules,
Thanks for the reply. Can you tell me which visa i should be applying for if the tourist one is no good? I haven't heard of the Thailand Elite but will look into it, £9300 is a big unexpected chunk to cough up though! Haha.
Thanks for the tips on renting. Can you give me any pointers on how much the electric rates should be, just so i know i'm not getting ripped off? Are there any websites to check on this?
Cheers smile.png

You will probably be able to manage on tourist visas for a year or more with almost no problems.

If this was me (and it was one day years back) I'd get an METV (Multiple Entry Tourist Visa) for the first trip, this lasts 6 months and you can drag it out for just under 9 months by doing border runs. After that I would then travel around Asia a little bit picking up new visas as I go. When you get bored of that it's time to look at something more permanent.

The standard electric rate depends on how much you use, the more you use, the more you pay. I think it also depends on where abouts you live. I'm in Hua Hin and it's about 4.6 Baht per unit directly to the electric company. My bills are 4-8k a month, I like to use the air conditioning all the time though.

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Hi AbeSurd,
Thanks for the reply, i'll repost some of the questions in the forum you mentioned.
I'll have to have a chat with the banks and see what i'm supposed to do, i don't know whether they're all for UK residents or not. And ask about each ones off-shore accounts, if they do one.
I wasn't planning on keeping a UK address, would a rental property be ok to do this with even if it's rented out? Can you tell me why this is so important, this isn't something i'd even thought about before as i was told to cut all ties because of tax reasons.

If you plan on returning to the UK after the 5 years are up you will find that you suddenly have no credit rating, presumably you also won't have been on the electoral roll for 5 years so opening a bank account will not be easy, even if you deposit a large amount of money. You will need to start from scratch and this can become a real pain, even for small things like getting a mobile phone - no electoral roll record + no bank account = no credit, even for the small things. For this reason I keep an active UK mobile phone and bank account.

I suggest keeping at least one bank account open and not telling them anything. I've heard of people just mentioning that they now live abroad on a visit back to the UK and the banks reaction was to instantly freeze / close all accounts along with their credit cards and overdraft facilities !

There is some obscure regulation which says if you're in the UK for less than a certain number of days per year then you can't be treated as a resident, I think it's 15 days or less - this is from memory so I would check with your advisors on that. I haven't been to the UK for years and don't plan to ever return apart from maybe a short visit so it's not something I've really looked into in much detail. There are also many other rules like the 90 day per year thing but from what I read the greatly reduced number of days limit is (or was) definitive.

There's still plenty of people over here paying UK tax though so you do need to plan it carefully even if you never go back.

Loving the replies on this mate, so good to hear from someone experienced.

I understand what you're saying about credit rating and difficulties when going back, but i'm also concerned the gov could use this info against me for tax reasons if i did ever go back after 5 years. I'm sure I could use a relative's address for an account and mobile, so will need to make certain on this. Didn't consider any of these points so really appreciate the heads up. Definitely needs more investigation by accountants / advisors.

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As for renting an apartment the first thing to watch out for is the price of the electricity, some of them will overcharge you by 2 or 3 times the going rate. If you rent it directly from the owner you often pay the electric bill when it arrives just like you would do back in the UK but if the apartment rental is 'managed' by either an estate agent or the front office of the apartment block then they will almost certainly add something to each unit of electricity you pay. This is a normal and widely accepted practice, you just need to make sure you don't get ripped off with some outrageous rate.

The business of landlords 'overcharging' for electricity needs to be kept in perspective. My landlord charges me roughly double the electricity company rate, but I really like my apartment and, given the low rent, think my total accommodation package is very good value. I wouldn't dream of moving because I'm being 'overcharged' for electricity.

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Hi ukrules,
Thanks for the reply. Can you tell me which visa i should be applying for if the tourist one is no good? I haven't heard of the Thailand Elite but will look into it, £9300 is a big unexpected chunk to cough up though! Haha.
Thanks for the tips on renting. Can you give me any pointers on how much the electric rates should be, just so i know i'm not getting ripped off? Are there any websites to check on this?
Cheers smile.png

You will probably be able to manage on tourist visas for a year or more with almost no problems.

If this was me (and it was one day years back) I'd get an METV (Multiple Entry Tourist Visa) for the first trip, this lasts 6 months and you can drag it out for just under 9 months by doing border runs. After that I would then travel around Asia a little bit picking up new visas as I go. When you get bored of that it's time to look at something more permanent.

The standard electric rate depends on how much you use, the more you use, the more you pay. I think it also depends on where abouts you live. I'm in Hua Hin and it's about 4.6 Baht per unit directly to the electric company. My bills are 4-8k a month, I like to use the air conditioning all the time though.

I'll have to ask about the METV as it's not mentioned on the thai embassy uk website, or at least i couldn't see it! I intend on travelling around a bit, so will help with the visa's like you mentioned, good to know.

Thanks for electric bill info, very helpful!

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As for renting an apartment the first thing to watch out for is the price of the electricity, some of them will overcharge you by 2 or 3 times the going rate. If you rent it directly from the owner you often pay the electric bill when it arrives just like you would do back in the UK but if the apartment rental is 'managed' by either an estate agent or the front office of the apartment block then they will almost certainly add something to each unit of electricity you pay. This is a normal and widely accepted practice, you just need to make sure you don't get ripped off with some outrageous rate.

The business of landlords 'overcharging' for electricity needs to be kept in perspective. My landlord charges me roughly double the electricity company rate, but I really like my apartment and, given the low rent, think my total accommodation package is very good value. I wouldn't dream of moving because I'm being 'overcharged' for electricity.

Yes i'll keep the location and any premium in mind, thanks. The last couple of times i've been over I keep wondering why there isn't any solar panels up, can't help thinking someone could make a killing in that market.

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Your first major decision is to decide if you want to remain UK tax resident or not, mostly this is a maths question based on what your future tax liability might be. You mention you are selling rental properties and that you will avoid capital gains if out of the country for five years so you've obviously thought about this to some degree.

If you do decide to become non-UK resident for tax purposes you will need to ensure that you can actually manage to do this, that will mean seriously restricting your visits to the UK and potentially giving up any home there you might own - here's the rules on tax residency which you will need to understand thoroughly: http://www.cambridgetax.co.uk/ctp/New_Residence_Rules.html

And if you do decide to give up your UK residency, be aware that you will loose free access to the NHS, access to UK based IFA's, loose UK state pension increases and probably more. Frankly, if the tax picture is so compelling then loosing those things will not be an issue, if not, you need to think carefully about them.

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Your first major decision is to decide if you want to remain UK tax resident or not, mostly this is a maths question based on what your future tax liability might be. You mention you are selling rental properties and that you will avoid capital gains if out of the country for five years so you've obviously thought about this to some degree.

If you do decide to become non-UK resident for tax purposes you will need to ensure that you can actually manage to do this, that will mean seriously restricting your visits to the UK and potentially giving up any home there you might own - here's the rules on tax residency which you will need to understand thoroughly: http://www.cambridgetax.co.uk/ctp/New_Residence_Rules.html

And if you do decide to give up your UK residency, be aware that you will loose free access to the NHS, access to UK based IFA's, loose UK state pension increases and probably more. Frankly, if the tax picture is so compelling then loosing those things will not be an issue, if not, you need to think carefully about them.

That's a great link, I went searching for clarification of these rules some time ago but couldn't find them.

The part that I was referring to above is this :

Automatically Non-Resident

You cannot be UK resident if :

bullet_nb_box-blue_check.png you spend less than 16 days in the UK during the tax year

post-44895-0-68623800-1449444855_thumb.j

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Thanks chiang mai, i hadn't considered losing access to the NHS so I'll have to get proper medical insurance sorted out in case anything bad happens. The tax saving vastly outweighs the points you raised, and once invested will be even more beneficial - as long as everything goes to plan! I guess if it all goes tits up then I go home with my tail between my legs, file for bankruptcy and start again. Touch wood that will not happen.


ukrules - thanks for pointing out what you meant. Looks like i won't be visiting the uk for more than 16 days per year!

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Thanks chiang mai, i hadn't considered losing access to the NHS so I'll have to get proper medical insurance sorted out in case anything bad happens. The tax saving vastly outweighs the points you raised, and once invested will be even more beneficial - as long as everything goes to plan! I guess if it all goes tits up then I go home with my tail between my legs, file for bankruptcy and start again. Touch wood that will not happen.
ukrules - thanks for pointing out what you meant. Looks like i won't be visiting the uk for more than 16 days per year!

For medical insurance I use 'BUPA International'. I did some research and came to the conclusion that this is the best one.

Not to be confused with BUPA Thailand or BUPA UK, get it while you're young and keep it.

If you don't tell your Doctor that you've left they won't know and neither will the NHS....

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If you do go the non-residency route, an urgent priority for you will be health insurance with world wide coverage. Most of the big insurers offer an expat policy and these can be obtained either in or outside the UK. The question for you will be whether to include UK coverage in that policy, based on the number of days you intend to spend in the UK. If you can eliminate the UK from that coverage, the cost will be cheaper. On the subject of health care, generally this is not a great worry in SE Asia, there are excellent hospitals here, in Malaysia, Singapore and Hong Kong but they can get pricey if serious medical conditions involved.

On bank accounts: I still have my UK HSBC bank account in operation along with the associated cards and they have always known I live in Thailand (11 years) and it's not a problem - I suggest keeping a UK onshore account and perhaps opening a lesser account in Thailand for in country expenses plus an account with a Singapore bank or similar - UOB would be a good choice because they have branches throughout the region, including in Thailand plus they are consistently rated in the top 15 safest banks on the planet each year. Other options of course are Guernsey, Jersey and IOM but I do find their bank/deposit insurance protection policies to be less than great. FWIW I still have my UK Barclaycard and they also know where I live. So you may wish to explore such things since credit cards in Thailand at least are difficult to come by, unless you put down a substantial deposit.

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Thanks chiang mai, i hadn't considered losing access to the NHS so I'll have to get proper medical insurance sorted out in case anything bad happens. The tax saving vastly outweighs the points you raised, and once invested will be even more beneficial - as long as everything goes to plan! I guess if it all goes tits up then I go home with my tail between my legs, file for bankruptcy and start again. Touch wood that will not happen.
ukrules - thanks for pointing out what you meant. Looks like i won't be visiting the uk for more than 16 days per year!

For medical insurance I use 'BUPA International'. I did some research and came to the conclusion that this is the best one.

Not to be confused with BUPA Thailand or BUPA UK, get it while you're young and keep it.

If you don't tell your Doctor that you've left they won't know and neither will the NHS....

Excellent i'll check them out, thanks smile.png

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Except technically, your GP is supposed to prune his records of patients on his register that he hasn't seen for twelve months and to return that patients records to the NHS. In practice many haven't done that because they are paid in part based on the number of patients they have, mine didn't do so for nine years!

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I am not a UK citizen but can tackle a few of the questions:

Make sure that you have a good relationship with a manager in one of the banks and notify them of where you will be living. Open an account here. Money wires are easy or an ATM card. Notify your credit card company that you are coming here also.

Not sure where you will be moving to but most places have inexpensive laundry places nearby.

As to prices of rentals, comparison shop. You can start online but the better deals are going to be word of mouth. Some places like Chiang Mai have a tremendous glut of rental units…

good luck - don't act too impulsively - or long term on any rentals, start slow… enjoy your journey.

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My advice:

Sell your business but don't sell your rental property.

Maintain an address for bank purposes with a relative, maintain at least two bank accounts and two credit cards.

Keep the money from your business in the UK, taking only what you need to live on to Thailand.

Buy health insurance when you get to Thailand.

----

Reasoning:

You are 43 years old, your only short/midterm visa option is a tourist visa - you therefore have no security of residence in Thailand and will be relying on the vagrancy of visa runs.

You should factor that any money you take to Thailand will stay in Thailand, most probably not in your hands.

You need bank and credit card facilities, the latter will not be available in Thailand and the former will be restricted compared to your options in the UK.

The property market in the UK is showing no signs of shrinking - why change secure investments.

If you loose a significant amount of money (see losing money in Thailand above) and return broke to the UK after 5 years you will have extreme difficulty reestablishing yourself.

43 years old with cash in your pocket, you have my congratulations on your forthcoming marriage, family and family responsibilities.

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best visa option if i were you would be the non (o) you can get it in 2 days from the thai consulate in hull . it will do you for 1 year and 3 months im pretty sure though you,ll need to ask the experts in the visa section.

check this link, im sure you have the 800000k - http://www.youblawg.com/immigration-law/royal-thai-consulate-in-hull-uk-said-non-o-visas-now-need-800000-thb

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Hello everyone,

I'm about to move to Thailand early next year for 5 years and have a lot of questions, hopefully it's ok to post them here and get some answers from you experienced expats. If I'm posting in the wrong place then please tell me where to go smile.png :

  • I'm selling a business and have some rental properties in the uk. The properties are all being sold after April 2016 so i'm not liable for Capital Gains Tax, as long as i'm out the UK for 5 years, is this correct? I'm paying for professional tax advice at the moment but i'm interested if anyone here has some similar recent experience.
  • How is it best to handle bank accounts when moving to another country? At the moment i've got a few uk accounts, is it best to keep these open and open another account in a Thai bank? Or use an offshore bank? If offshore, which currency is best to use?
  • I'm about to apply for a Thai visa. I'm a bit confused as to which visa i should be applying for, is it a Tourist Visa valid for 60 days, then keep renewing it every 90 days? I'm 43 yrs old if it makes a difference.
  • I've been to Thailand 6 times for short (2-3 week) holidays, but i've never rented an apartment on a long term basis. Is there things i should be watching out for? And how do i know it's a reasonable price? Where do i find places for long term rental?
  • How does living in an apartment in Thailand compare the uk? I mean whats the differences i should be aware of, like kitchen appliances (oven, washing machine, etc), how to get uk tv channels, washing clothes and laundry, cooking, etc? Do i need any essentials to bring with me?
  • I plan on moving around the country, and visiting other countries, maybe even going around the world at some point. In order to maintain my tax status as a Thai resident, how many days must i be resident in the country so the uk gov is satisfied concerning Capital Gains Tax (It could be a fxxxing big mistake if i get this wrong).
  • How many days are you allowed back to visit friends and family in the UK for each year?
Sorry for all the questions. I'm excited about the move and also a bit nervous about how unprepared i feel! Any pointers regarding anything i've mentioned above would be really helpful!

Cheers smile.png

1 still liable to cgt. The rule was changed for non residences from April 2015.

2. Keep your uk bank accounts and keep your properties.

3. You probably have enough money to buy an elite card, then move onto retirement visa at 50.

4. Long term rental. Find a short term base then ask on here..

5. Not much difference. Probably have a gym and pool in the condo complex. As part of rental agreement insure Internet and cable included. Electricity rate to be negotiated.

6. You will never be resident for tax purposes here unless you work.

7. As previously stated your cgt situation will not change. As for being a uk tax residence, use to be 180 days outside, now it's more " life style" if you are continuously in and out, then you never really left. Just keep them ( visits )short .

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best visa option if i were you would be the non (o) you can get it in 2 days from the thai consulate in hull . it will do you for 1 year and 3 months im pretty sure though you,ll need to ask the experts in the visa section.

check this link, im sure you have the 800000k - http://www.youblawg.com/immigration-law/royal-thai-consulate-in-hull-uk-said-non-o-visas-now-need-800000-thb

On what grounds would he be eligible for a non-O?

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Way too much had to stop. Regarding the bank accounts, keep UK bank accounts and make sure you have online access. If it is possible open a Thai savings account online and transfer some money in. If not then come over with a couple of grand in your pocket and a visa card (with at least one spare in case the ATM snaffles it). The ideal situation would be to set up the UK bank account so you can transfer funds to your Thai account online.

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Hi ukrules,
Thanks for the reply. Can you tell me which visa i should be applying for if the tourist one is no good? I haven't heard of the Thailand Elite but will look into it, £9300 is a big unexpected chunk to cough up though! Haha.
Thanks for the tips on renting. Can you give me any pointers on how much the electric rates should be, just so i know i'm not getting ripped off? Are there any websites to check on this?
Cheers smile.png

As a starter, you might want to consider the new METV (multiple entry tourist visa). As you get settled, you can then choose the visa that most suits, eg, study visa, work visa, who knows marriage visa.

Renting an apartment is easy it usually involves 2 months deposit, and 1 month in advance. Some apartments offer weekly or monthly rates though these tend to be a lot more expensive.

Typically a self contained studio room will be 6000 baht upwards, and a nicer apartment 20000 baht per month, with plenty of choice in between.

Electricity will vary from 1000- 3000 baht per month depending on whether you use aircon.

Water rates generally 200-300 baht.

If I may suggest, you need to decide on a base from which to start, eg, Bangkok, Pattaya, or Hua Hin. If you were to choose a city like Bangkok, don't commit yourself to a long contract too soon as the heat and pollution can cause allergic illness that can't be controlled.

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In order to secure any money you transfer into Thailand, I recommend consulting "Mme Pum Pouey", mama-san at a well-known bar in Sukhumvit Soi 4; she has a range of eligible young ladies who are eminently qualified to help you with your investment decisions.

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I'm a Brit. I'll offer a thought on your point 2. A lot of UK bank accounts are for UK residents only. So If you tell some of those UK banks that you're moving abroad they may tell you they're going to have to close your account (and give you a new account, perhaps with one of their off-shore banks).

I, UK expat, have been warned by HSBC to close my current account so I requested them not to close it. They asked me a few questions - sorry I can't remember what were these questions except one they ask me if I have a personal tax allowance. I replied yes. They agree to let me using my existing account. So it should not be a problem.

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Hi ukrules,
Thanks for the reply. Can you tell me which visa i should be applying for if the tourist one is no good? I haven't heard of the Thailand Elite but will look into it, £9300 is a big unexpected chunk to cough up though! Haha.
Thanks for the tips on renting. Can you give me any pointers on how much the electric rates should be, just so i know i'm not getting ripped off? Are there any websites to check on this?
Cheers smile.png

If you are moving to Thailand as a complete newbie, you are going to be in for some nasty surprises. Ripped off at every opportunity, buying all the wrong stuff, not knowing where you`ve been or where you`re going or in which direction, lost in a wilderness of confusion.

What you should do is take your questions one by one and research everything online in detail, make a master plan for when you arrive here. On top of that, coming over here not knowing anything is pure stupidity. You should at least do a temporary stay in Thailand for 6 months before chucking all in in the UK. If you can`t, then the best of British luck, you`re going to need it.

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