Realistic chances of obtaining Thai citizenship?

[kiwikeith]

Am I right in thinking that one has to show prof that one has relinquished you former citizenship before obtaining Thai citizenship? And if so why would anyone wish to do this as it would create many problems when you want to travel abroad?

Maybe you would loose your pension and free medical care if your country has any, I know a Denmark man who has thai citizenship many years and he needs visa to go to Denmark.

[Colonel Klink]

Your post is not totally correct.

If you are married to a Thai or have a Thai child you do not have to get permanent residency before a applying for citizenship.

You don't pay for a residence certificate until your application is approved. Only the 7600 baht fee for the application is lost if not approved.

Ubonjoe, do you need to be actually working here when you apply for citizenship or could you have been working here for the requisite period but now be retired here? Secondly, is there any minimum period to be married to a Thai in order to apply for citizenship (and therefore avoiding the PR process)? Many thanks for your advice.

[djlest]

so first you need to apply for a permanent residency?

What about someone with the THAI ELITE Visa 5 years, does this in anyway make this easier? any perks?

[expatbrit]

so first you need to apply for a permanent residency?

What about someone with the THAI ELITE Visa 5 years, does this in anyway make this easier? any perks?

No "perks" in respect of citizenship or PR.

[ubonjoe]

Your post is not totally correct.

If you are married to a Thai or have a Thai child you do not have to get permanent residency before a applying for citizenship.

You don't pay for a residence certificate until your application is approved. Only the 7600 baht fee for the application is lost if not approved.

Ubonjoe, do you need to be actually working here when you apply for citizenship or could you have been working here for the requisite period but now be retired here? Secondly, is there any minimum period to be married to a Thai in order to apply for citizenship (and therefore avoiding the PR process)? Many thanks for your advice.

You have to be working for 3 years prior to submitting the application and until citizenship is granted.

I think you would have be married for the 3 years prior to application.

[ubonjoe]

Am I right in thinking that one has to show prof that one has relinquished you former citizenship before obtaining Thai citizenship? And if so why would anyone wish to do this as it would create many problems when you want to travel abroad?

Maybe you would loose your pension and free medical care if your country has any, I know a Denmark man who has thai citizenship many years and he needs visa to go to Denmark.

He was not required to give up his Danish citizenship to get Thai citizenship. I think though he had give up the his Danish citizenship when he got his Thai nationality because Denmark dose not allow dual nationalities.

[Colonel Klink]

You have to be working for 3 years prior to submitting the application and until citizenship is granted.

I think you would have be married for the 3 years prior to application.

Thank you Ubonjoe

[aronp1]

If married to a Thai the salary requirement is 40k baht. See here for more info: Guidelines and documents required for application for Thai citizenship by naturalization

There is also this existing long topic about getting citizenship: dbrenn's story of Thai citizenship application

you will never become a Thai citizen, you can get residence certificate at a very high price, but become a real thai citizen? forget it. having said that why in the world would you want to? have you reviewed the politics of thailand? have you seen the number of coups?

Who told you that you'll never become a actual citizen? Of course you can, and have all the same rights as someone actually born here.

[Fab5BKK]

Agree with you re. the rights (and duties) when you become a Thai citizen.

However, when talking about citizenship @ birth, according to the Thai Law, you're a Thai citizen not because you're born here (= in Thailand) but because, at least, 1 of your parents is Thai (difference between "jus soli" and "jus sanguinis")

Example #1: 2 foreign parents have a child born in Thailand, this kid will have his parent citizenship(s) and won't be Thai.

Example # 2: a child's born abroad and one of his parents is Thai, this kid is Thai and may have other citizenship(s) thanks to his foreign parent and from where he's born.

Unless the law has been changed recently

If married to a Thai the salary requirement is 40k baht. See here for more info: Guidelines and documents required for application for Thai citizenship by naturalization
There is also this existing long topic about getting citizenship: dbrenn's story of Thai citizenship application

you will never become a Thai citizen, you can get residence certificate at a very high price, but become a real thai citizen? forget it. having said that why in the world would you want to? have you reviewed the politics of thailand? have you seen the number of coups?

Who told you that you'll never become a actual citizen? Of course you can, and have all the same rights as someone actually born here.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Fab5BKK

[Lampang2]

Is income required also for the PR alone?

[gandalf12]

But there was something I didn't know:

"17. Affidavit from applicant’s embassy or consulate in Thailand that demonstrates the applicant’s intention to renounce his current nationality when his application for Thai nationality is approved."

So Thailand doesn't accept dual citizenship?? That could be a bit of a breaker though...

Thailand must accept dual nationality. Years ago, 1993 to be exact, myself and my Thai wife were living in Greece. We were looking into gettting her British citizenship so I asked the embassy in Athens if there was a problem. What they told me was "no problem, many Thai's have dual nationality". Since then I have met a number of Thai's, mostly wives of friends who have both Thai and another nationality (British, German etc)

[ubonjoe]

Is income required also for the PR alone?

Income and working here is required to get PR, See: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=residence

[asiasurfer]

Wow, I didn't expect my initial question unleashes such a long discussion. Meanwhile I tried to contact some lawyer. I sent out 6 requests and only two replied so far. One was asking me for fees which would have been enough to pay for the citizenship for 12 foreigners (well, if married to Thai) . The other law company simply didn't have a clue, providing false information. Even ubonjoe (Thank you!) on here had better advice than that...

So I guess, I will rather do all the leg work myself!

[asiasurfer]

Although you are only earning 36K a month, you may want to check how much you are actually paying tax on, it is quite common for Foreigners to pay tax on a salary of 50K however be earning less As for a lawyer....very few have any experience and will charge a considerable amount for what you can do yourself as above, if at all possible endear yourself at application.

Very interesting point. But wouldn't they find out out anyway? Even if I asked my employer to pay the tax for 40K in order to make it easier for me. In my contract it still states 36K. And in the letter confirming my salary, it would state the same. So, couldn't they guess, I'm just making up salary?

[asiasurfer]

If married to a Thai the salary requirement is 40k baht. See here for more info: Guidelines and documents required for application for Thai citizenship by naturalization

There is also this existing long topic about getting citizenship: dbrenn's story of Thai citizenship application

you will never become a Thai citizen, you can get residence certificate at a very high price, but become a real thai citizen? forget it. having said that why in the world would you want to? have you reviewed the politics of thailand? have you seen the number of coups?

Different folks, different strokes, I would say...

[micmichd]

Do you have to work in Thailand to get citizenship? I'm here on a retirement visa, have plenty of income from my home country and a Thai wife and daughter.

Yes you have to be working here to apply.

What about both?

Relative high pension + low income from working - would that do?

[Arkady]

A male applicant married to a Thai needs a salary of at least B40,000 a month. The B30,000 a month you mention is, I believe, for minorities living in Thailand (i.e. hilltribes etc). You will need a letter from your company confirming your salary and 3 years' of tax receipts. So you will need to get a pay rise to be eligible. I am not sure, if you need to have the B40,000 a month for the whole 3 years or just for the last year before you apply. I suspect it is the latter but, if you can get a pay rise and are interested in applying, you should go and Special Branch at Police National HQ in Bkk to ask their advice. Contrary to popular belief it is actually possible for applicants earning the minimum of B40,000 to be approved, since everything is being done by the book these days under the military government.

[asiasurfer]

A male applicant married to a Thai needs a salary of at least B40,000 a month. The B30,000 a month you mention is, I believe, for minorities living in Thailand (i.e. hilltribes etc). You will need a letter from your company confirming your salary and 3 years' of tax receipts. So you will need to get a pay rise to be eligible. I am not sure, if you need to have the B40,000 a month for the whole 3 years or just for the last year before you apply. I suspect it is the latter but, if you can get a pay rise and are interested in applying, you should go and Special Branch at Police National HQ in Bkk to ask their advice. Contrary to popular belief it is actually possible for applicants earning the minimum of B40,000 to be approved, since everything is being done by the book these days under the military government.

Yes, that is what I said as well in my post #44. Let's assume I have a base salary of 35,000 Baht per month. But over the whole year I get bonuses of additional 60,000 Baht. So on average over the whole year it would be still 40,000 Baht - just calculated over the whole year. Would it be a problem then, if the letter from the employer only states 35,000 Baht / month, although I have the tax receipts?

[Arkady]

A male applicant married to a Thai needs a salary of at least B40,000 a month. The B30,000 a month you mention is, I believe, for minorities living in Thailand (i.e. hilltribes etc). You will need a letter from your company confirming your salary and 3 years' of tax receipts. So you will need to get a pay rise to be eligible. I am not sure, if you need to have the B40,000 a month for the whole 3 years or just for the last year before you apply. I suspect it is the latter but, if you can get a pay rise and are interested in applying, you should go and Special Branch at Police National HQ in Bkk to ask their advice. Contrary to popular belief it is actually possible for applicants earning the minimum of B40,000 to be approved, since everything is being done by the book these days under the military government.

Yes, that is what I said as well in my post #44. Let's assume I have a base salary of 35,000 Baht per month. But over the whole year I get bonuses of additional 60,000 Baht. So on average over the whole year it would be still 40,000 Baht - just calculated over the whole year. Would it be a problem then, if the letter from the employer only states 35,000 Baht / month, although I have the tax receipts?

It is quite illogical but the salary stated in the letter from your employer and the total income you paid tax on the previous year have to match. They are not interested in hearing anything about pay rises, bonuses or job changes. This can be a bit of a headache but you just have to somehow get the two to match, which often requires an understanding employer.

[dbrenn]

The rules were relaxed a while back, so that those married to Thais can apply after just three years of residence, with no PR necessary. This would appear to make the expensive (and cumbersome) PR process an unnecessary step for all those (many of us) who are married to a local.

I was wondering - has anyone who applied after such a short period of residency, with no PR, actually been successful in receiving citizenship? Or, do their applications just sit in limbo?

Edited December 12, 2015 by dbrenn

[Arkady]

The rules were relaxed a while back, so that those married to Thais can apply after just three years of residence, with no PR necessary. This would appear to make the expensive (and cumbersome) PR process an unnecessary step for all those (many of us) who are married to a local.

I was wondering - has anyone who applied after such a short period of residency, with no PR, actually been successful in receiving citizenship? Or, do their applications just sit in limbo?

Although they were coy about publicising the 2008 amendment (it was not mentioned at all in the short version of 2009 guidelines that are still current), it turns out that applications under this rule are processed the same as applicants with PR without distinction. The MOI is scared of being sued in the Administrative Court, so they take a fairly black and white view, based on who is qualified according to the letter of the law and regulations. I think quite a few males with Thai wives but without PR have already obtained Thai citizenship.

The minimum residency requirement for males married is 3 years, even if they have a Thai child, because you still need the 3 years of tax receipts. There is definitely no point now in applying for PR, if you are married to a Thai and want to apply for citizenship.

[asiasurfer]

The rules were relaxed a while back, so that those married to Thais can apply after just three years of residence, with no PR necessary. This would appear to make the expensive (and cumbersome) PR process an unnecessary step for all those (many of us) who are married to a local.

I was wondering - has anyone who applied after such a short period of residency, with no PR, actually been successful in receiving citizenship? Or, do their applications just sit in limbo?

Well, I will let you know in a few years...

[asiasurfer]

A male applicant married to a Thai needs a salary of at least B40,000 a month. The B30,000 a month you mention is, I believe, for minorities living in Thailand (i.e. hilltribes etc). You will need a letter from your company confirming your salary and 3 years' of tax receipts. So you will need to get a pay rise to be eligible. I am not sure, if you need to have the B40,000 a month for the whole 3 years or just for the last year before you apply. I suspect it is the latter but, if you can get a pay rise and are interested in applying, you should go and Special Branch at Police National HQ in Bkk to ask their advice. Contrary to popular belief it is actually possible for applicants earning the minimum of B40,000 to be approved, since everything is being done by the book these days under the military government.

Yes, that is what I said as well in my post #44. Let's assume I have a base salary of 35,000 Baht per month. But over the whole year I get bonuses of additional 60,000 Baht. So on average over the whole year it would be still 40,000 Baht - just calculated over the whole year. Would it be a problem then, if the letter from the employer only states 35,000 Baht / month, although I have the tax receipts?

It is quite illogical but the salary stated in the letter from your employer and the total income you paid tax on the previous year have to match. They are not interested in hearing anything about pay rises, bonuses or job changes. This can be a bit of a headache but you just have to somehow get the two to match, which often requires an understanding employer.

Ah, that makes sense then also with what ubonjoe said:

1. I need to have the tax receipts that I paid taxes on a total of 480,000 Baht salary per annum (i.e. 40,000 Baht per month x 12 Months).

2. I need a letter from my employer, confirming that my total income averages 40,000 Baht per month.

And that's all legally correct then? Right?

[micmichd]

And 40,000 THB per month would be enough even if you're not married?

[ubonjoe]

And 40,000 THB per month would be enough even if you're not married?

It is 80,000 baht if not married to a Thai.

[Arkady]

A male applicant married to a Thai needs a salary of at least B40,000 a month. The B30,000 a month you mention is, I believe, for minorities living in Thailand (i.e. hilltribes etc). You will need a letter from your company confirming your salary and 3 years' of tax receipts. So you will need to get a pay rise to be eligible. I am not sure, if you need to have the B40,000 a month for the whole 3 years or just for the last year before you apply. I suspect it is the latter but, if you can get a pay rise and are interested in applying, you should go and Special Branch at Police National HQ in Bkk to ask their advice. Contrary to popular belief it is actually possible for applicants earning the minimum of B40,000 to be approved, since everything is being done by the book these days under the military government.

Yes, that is what I said as well in my post #44. Let's assume I have a base salary of 35,000 Baht per month. But over the whole year I get bonuses of additional 60,000 Baht. So on average over the whole year it would be still 40,000 Baht - just calculated over the whole year. Would it be a problem then, if the letter from the employer only states 35,000 Baht / month, although I have the tax receipts?

It is quite illogical but the salary stated in the letter from your employer and the total income you paid tax on the previous year have to match. They are not interested in hearing anything about pay rises, bonuses or job changes. This can be a bit of a headache but you just have to somehow get the two to match, which often requires an understanding employer.

Ah, that makes sense then also with what ubonjoe said:

1. I need to have the tax receipts that I paid taxes on a total of 480,000 Baht salary per annum (i.e. 40,000 Baht per month x 12 Months).

2. I need a letter from my employer, confirming that my total income averages 40,000 Baht per month.

And that's all legally correct then? Right?

It would be better if the employment letter said you were employed on a salary of exactly B40,000 a month or whatever income you declared the year before divided by 12, so long as it was at least 40k a month. Since they have no imagination, you need to make it as simple as possible for them and don't expect they will be interested in listening to any logical explanations.

[Arkady]

And 40,000 THB per month would be enough even if you're not married?

It is 80,000 baht if not married to a Thai.

This is correct but, assuming you are male, you will need PR first in this case and the chances of getting that with a salary of less than 80,000 are probably limited. Even though there is no specific salary qualification for PR, just about everything is tougher than for citizenship. This applies particularly to the level of documentation required for PR, e.g. home country police clearance, company documentation notarised by the auditor etc, none of which is required for citizenship, although you will need to submit some company documentation, if you are a shareholder.

One big difference between PR and citizenship applications though is that you are obliged to maintain your employment status and minimum salary throughout the citizenship application, whereas it is OK to retire from work after you have passed all the interviews and screening for PR.

For those planning to apply for citzenship, please remember to start collecting receipts of donations to registered Thai charities. The amount is not specified but It doesn't need to be a huge amount, say B5,000 a year. However, the guidelines state that the donations must not be made simply to apply for citizenship, which means that your application could techically be rejected if you just submit receipts from a month earlier when you just learned about the requirement.

[dbrenn]

The rules were relaxed a while back, so that those married to Thais can apply after just three years of residence, with no PR necessary. This would appear to make the expensive (and cumbersome) PR process an unnecessary step for all those (many of us) who are married to a local.

I was wondering - has anyone who applied after such a short period of residency, with no PR, actually been successful in receiving citizenship? Or, do their applications just sit in limbo?

Although they were coy about publicising the 2008 amendment (it was not mentioned at all in the short version of 2009 guidelines that are still current), it turns out that applications under this rule are processed the same as applicants with PR without distinction. The MOI is scared of being sued in the Administrative Court, so they take a fairly black and white view, based on who is qualified according to the letter of the law and regulations. I think quite a few males with Thai wives but without PR have already obtained Thai citizenship.

The minimum residency requirement for males married is 3 years, even if they have a Thai child, because you still need the 3 years of tax receipts. There is definitely no point now in applying for PR, if you are married to a Thai and want to apply for citizenship.

That's good to know for all those out there who want to be Thai.

PR these days seems much harder than when I applied in 1997. Back then, PR only cost 25k, the interview was easy and no need for foreign police clearance. I got mine eight months after applying.

Bypassing the PR process and five year wait with PR means that (including the waiting period for citizenship) married folk out there can be Thai only five or six years after arriving in Thailand - a similar waiting time to places like the UK and Oz, which should silence al those "why don't they give us the same rights as we give them" folks. Skipping PR also saves a fortune, with PR costing so much now.

I wonder how long it will be before the SB and MOI become overloaded with applications? The SB office was dickensian in it's excessive use of paper, the staff struggling to keep track, and the whole process seemed so creaky and overloaded when I applied. With no quota limiting the number of applicants (as is the case with PR), they'll surely need to upgrade the SB to keep up.

[KCPhuket]

I know it is now just a dream, but for us retirees who live here and nowhere else, we spend all our retirement income here with Thai wife and one or more children, why in the world can they not allow us to apply for the Thai citizenship? We are contributing much more than a worker here paying taxes; more often than not!

My Thai wife applied for US citizenship after three years as a spouse. There was NO employment requirement. So she is dual and my daughter is dual, but alas the poor farang lives here year by year with retirement extension as a guest who could be booted for several reasons. I do ask the Thais to call me Khun Farang so it doesn't offend me quite so much.

Waiting and hoping for my opportunity to apply!

[MobileContent]

If married to a Thai the salary requirement is 40k baht. See here for more info: Guidelines and documents required for application for Thai citizenship by naturalization

There is also this existing long topic about getting citizenship: dbrenn's story of Thai citizenship application

what if you have business and earn good amount money , will you eligible for citizenship ?

Possible - I have many friends in Thailand that became Thai citizen. It also helps if you give a million Baht to a charity such as the red cross and make sure you take a picture of it. Further more a character witness such as one or several hi so Thai's can be of great benefit.

I have never met one Farang that was on a salary of 36 - 40k a month that got citizenship but most of the guys I know make between 400-750k a month and citizenship applications doesn't take very long.