Boxing legend Muhammad Ali responds to Trump's call to ban Muslims from entering US

[jacky54]

Ali must be the most racist American sports personality, but because he's black, was good and beating people up in the ring and a Muslim of course he gets away with his drivel.

[7by7]

I must concede that you, Jacky54, are this forum's resident expert on racist drivel!

[arjunadawn]

Maybe he said this. Or, maybe someone associated with Ali said this. I am not commenting directly on the statement, each is afforded their right to a position. I am just surprised that Ali, a very famous muslim, actually said this. My suspicion is this was offered on his behalf. Again, perhaps the comment is valid, I just doubt he said it.

About 12 years ago I was in a private meeting with Ali, President Karzai, and Ali's friend/lawyer. Karzai was drooling over Ali's presence; he just was, fawning and going on (I get this too). Their meeting provided mutual legitimacy, though mostly to Karzai. Karzai offered to set up Ali in a private home in Kabul should he choose to live there. What was Ali's response? Well, not much. Ali was also nearly drooling, and I mean literally- this is my point. Ali could hardly articulate his own words this many years ago. While he could articulate some things it was in a way that was uniquely translated by those who live and know him well, his friend. Ali had by this time manifested advanced evidence of disability. It was a charming and wonderful experience but it was not marked by Ali saying much of anything. The entire conversation was carried by Karzai himself, and following a smile or nod from Ali, responses from his friend on Ali's behalf. I get that Ali represents a displeased resentment from muslims worldwide. I do not comment to the fact that he has been relatively silent regarding the inexorable march of jihad, as too has Cat Stevens, I just note I find it hard to believe this was actually Ali. These photos are that meeting.

[arjunadawn]

Don't recall the serial adulterer and bragart Ali spouting forth on the Boston bombing or the World trade center.

You are yet again displaying your ignorance.

No doubt, as with every other piece of evidence showing that Muslims worldwide condemn terrorists who claim to be Muslim, you will ignore this.

Wow, instead of editing my previous post (I only now saw this video from 2010, I think) I will comment: This is not the Ali I saw 12 years ago. Whatever treatment he has been taking has vastly improved his speaking. Good for him.

This actually is a very high profile condemnation if islamic jihad. Good! It is also good to see it too. However, the disconnect is still maintained. Islamic jihad does have something to do with islamic...

That is why disparate jihadis through time have all quoted the very same islamic sources for their authority. Great that he said this, wish there were more and even more importantly, I wish there was a real push to show as much collective outrage at the inexorable march of jihad as their has been to protest Trump. Do both. I dont care, but also unite and protest islamic jihad.

[rethaier]

Ali just lost my respect.

[JHolmesJr]

Please...ali is a lightweight muzzlim....in those days it was fashionable to follow dudes like louis farrakhan and malcolm x....im sure ali only picked the cool bits....like a cool name.....plus it gave him some noticeable press.

I dont see him as a muzzlim.....hes a beta muzzlim.

[jacky54]

I must concede that you, Jacky54, are this forum's resident expert on racist drivel!

We who follow the teachings of Elijah Muhammad don't want to be forced to integrate. Integration is wrong. We don't want to live with the white man; that's all.

Muhammad Ali

[billd766]

Ali doesn't go out much to a mall or a crowded place…he probably lives in a huge house with huge walls and security….plus he's a muzzlim….what has he to be afraid of?

Muhammad Ali also has Parkinsons disease and is 73 years old.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Parkinsons-disease/Pages/Symptoms.aspx

Parkinsons generally slows you down and keeps you from going out.

What has he to be afraid of?

Death, like all of us.

[billd766]

Don't recall the serial adulterer and bragart Ali spouting forth on the Boston bombing or the World trade center.

I don't remember you spouting forth on it either.

[Linky]

Please...ali is a lightweight muzzlim....in those days it was fashionable to follow dudes like louis farrakhan and malcolm x....im sure ali only picked the cool bits....like a cool name.....plus it gave him some noticeable press.

I dont see him as a muzzlim.....hes a beta muzzlim.

But all muslims are the same. For sure he has been out beheading people on the weekend. ?

[billd766]

Don't recall the serial adulterer and bragart Ali spouting forth on the Boston bombing or the World trade center.

You are yet again displaying your ignorance.

No doubt, as with every other piece of evidence showing that Muslims worldwide condemn terrorists who claim to be Muslim, you will ignore this.

Back in the UK where I came from, people like jacky54 are described as all mouth and trousers.

However if ignorance is bliss then he must be a happy person.

[jacky54]

Ali's opinion as a Muslim in denial of the faiths true nature is worth no more than anyone else's. The fact that he was a draft dodger, a misogynist (like so many Muslim men) an adulterer and a man who has spouted race hatred makes his opinion carry even less weight, he's a self obsessed clown and not a very funny one.

[spidermike007]

Mohamad Ali should just shut up and go back to sleep. Only changed to Islam to avoid the draft during VietNam. He is a coward and a embarrassment. No respect for him at all.

Ali is a coward? That is a good one. I suppose you would have been willing to get into the ring with Joe Frazier or George Foreman? Easy for you to say. And it means very, very little coming from you.

[smotherb]

If the Webster's definition of the term 'draft dodger' holds any weight.......there's a long list of prominent people who qualify. There's a good chance you've voted for one of them......if not already, probably in the next election.

From wiki:

The Vietnam era version ofWebster's Unabridged Dictionary (1968) simply defined draft dodger as "one who avoids military service" regardless how it was done.^[1] Some means of draft avoidance:

• Being a conscientious objector, whether one's anti-war sentiment is religious or otherwise. Peace churches, such as Jehovah's Witnesses, Mennonites, Amish,Brethren, Christian anarchists, Rastafari and Quakers, oppose any kind of military service for their members, even in non-combatant fields, but are not opposed to alternative non-uniformed civilian service. Note that many people^[who?] who support conscription will distinguish between "bona fide" conscientious objection anddraft dodging, which they view as evasion of military service without a valid excuse. Conscientious objection would be considered evasion if the sentiment was not genuine.
• Seeking excusal from military service due to health reasons - this would be considered evasion if the purported health issue was feigned or overstated.
• Marrying and/or fathering children, if the military in question will grant deferments to spouses and/or parents.^{[citation needed]}
• Claiming to be homosexual, when the military in question excludes homosexuals—this would be considered evasion if the claim was false, but if the potential conscript is in fact a homosexual, it would be the rules of the military body that prevent him from enlisting, even if he wished to do so.
• Seeking and receiving a student deferment. This would be considered evasion if false or misleading academic credentials were used. Some notable US figures avoided the draft as students, such as Bill Clinton,^[2]Joe Biden, and Dick Cheney.
• Being employed in or applying for a job in an "essential" civilian occupation and seeking deferment on those grounds. Farmers are usually exempt as are individuals employed in defense related industries. Often this required a letter from the potential draftee's employer to be accepted. After receiving deferment as a student, 2008 U.S. Presidential candidate Rudolph Giuliani received further deferment after his occupation as a law clerk was deemed "essential" by the Selective Service.
• Non-pacifist churches have at times deferred missionaries as "divinity students". During the Vietnam War The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) became embroiled in controversy for deferring large numbers of its young members.^[3] The LDS church eventually agreed to cap the number of missionary deferments it sought for members in any one state; however, this generally did not stop LDS missionaries who lived outside. This cap was church wide in the United States and was not limited to Utah. Only two missionaries a year were allowed from each ward.^[4]Utah^[3] (such as 2008 and 2012 presidential candidate Mitt Romney) from receiving deferments with relative ease.^[5][6]
• Simply declining to enlist, if the potential conscript appears likely to avoid the draft through sheer "luck of the draw". During the Vietnam War, not all eligible young men were drafted; many who had a high lottery number simply took no action, knowing that they were unlikely to ever be drafted. Declining to enlist is not evasion.
• Paying a stand-in to take one's place if drafted. In most countries this is no longer legally sanctioned, but it was a lawful and very common practice in the American Civil War. Grover Cleveland, who later became the Twenty-Second and Twenty-Fourth President of the United States, paid a substitute during the Civil War, an act for which he was criticized when he ran for President.
• In some countries it is often possible to evade military service by bribing corrupt draft officers, or by finding a doctor who will certify one as medically unfit.
• Deliberately making oneself medically unfit for duty. This could include consuming large quantities of drugs and alcohol for some time before the medical examination in order to appear addicted, or in more extreme cases, amputating a body part that is critical for service such as trigger fingers or even an entire limb. This could also include self-starvation, as in Abstinence (conscription) practiced by some Jewish conscripts in the Russian Empire.
• Moving out of the country (which, depending on the laws in question, may or may not exempt a citizen from the draft).

The term draft resister specifically refers to someone who explicitly refuses military service—simply attempting to flee the draft is draft evasion.

Absolutely great.. then there is nothing wrong with being a draft dodger.

[HerbalEd]

Mohamad Ali should just shut up and go back to sleep. Only changed to Islam to avoid the draft during VietNam. He is a coward and a embarrassment. No respect for him at all.

Hate him if you must, but try doing so based upon actual facts, and not misinformed emotion. Converting to Islam did not in any way help him avoid the draft. Given all that he lost and the hatred he incurred my refusing to go in the Army, I'd say he showed great courage and fortitude of his moral convictions.

BTW, I was drafted and served in the US Army during the Vietnam war.

Edited December 10, 2015 by HerbalEd

[simple1]

Ali's opinion as a Muslim in denial of the faiths true nature is worth no more than anyone else's. The fact that he was a draft dodger, a misogynist (like so many Muslim men) an adulterer and a man who has spouted race hatred makes his opinion carry even less weight, he's a self obsessed clown and not a very funny one.

You have no moral / ethical legs to stand on. You personally have posted and 'liked' misogynist posts concerning Thai women. You personally have posted advocacy for mass killings of Muslim civilians and 'liked' similar posts You personally have had numerous posts removed for OTT bigotry and 'liked' similar posts and so on.

About time hypocrites such as you to face reality - not a hell of a lot of differentiation in messaging to those you condemn.

Edited December 10, 2015 by simple1

[slerickson]

Ali's opinion as a Muslim in denial of the faiths true nature is worth no more than anyone else's. The fact that he was a draft dodger, a misogynist (like so many Muslim men) an adulterer and a man who has spouted race hatred makes his opinion carry even less weight, he's a self obsessed clown and not a very funny one.

Self obsessed. Are we talking about D Trump now?

You don't think blacks in America have any reason to be racist, then, now, or 200 years ago? He never struck me as racist just fed up with racism and he wasn't going to lay down. As he said Vietnam was a white man's war.

[louse1953]

Mohamad Ali should just shut up and go back to sleep. Only changed to Islam to avoid the draft during VietNam. He is a coward and a embarrassment. No respect for him at all.

Maybe he did,maybe he didn't,but why fight in an unwinable war in somebody elses country for nothing.Some of you Yanks will never learn to think for yourselves,just believe what pollies spout.Bush the minor was dangerous but Trump is taking it to a whole new level.

[louse1953]

The simple fact is that if Muslims are indeed the perfect picture of all great, good, honest poeple, I find it curious why NOT ONE Muslim stands in public to decry these terriosts. If I was a Muslim it would be in my interests to do everything I could to educate people otherwise.

Instead youu hear nothing from them. So one can conclude that it is indeed their religion beliefs that are dangerous to any that are not Muslim. Sure some are more forward than others (hence ISIS, Al Queda, etc). But the bottom line is Muslims core beliefs ARE dangerous to anyone who is not a Muslim. They are more akin to Nazi's.

It is curious probably because you are not listening. What Ali and others have done, mentioned all throughout this post, is exactly what you say that no one does.

I remember hearing all sorts of Muslim groups speaking about this very matter in the 1990's well up to this date, probably before but I was to young to take note of it.

The message has always been the same that what the terrorists call religion is nothing but a way to prevent a sacred and holy way of life.

Much love to any oppressed by the actions of the mad and insane.

=[...

It doesn't suit the mainstream media to give people with anti terrorist views airtime.This does not fit the right wing agenda.

[jacky54]

Ali's opinion as a Muslim in denial of the faiths true nature is worth no more than anyone else's. The fact that he was a draft dodger, a misogynist (like so many Muslim men) an adulterer and a man who has spouted race hatred makes his opinion carry even less weight, he's a self obsessed clown and not a very funny one.

You have no moral / ethical legs to stand on. You personally have posted and 'liked' misogynist posts concerning Thai women. You personally have posted advocacy for mass killings of Muslim civilians and 'liked' similar posts You personally have had numerous posts removed for OTT bigotry and 'liked' similar posts and so on.

About time hypocrites such as you to face reality - not a hell of a lot of differentiation in messaging to those you condemn.

Pity you are never so quick to question the 'morality' of the perfect man (what a joke) you know the one who started the religion of division and hate when he invented conversations with god. Mohamad was a killer who raped a nine year old and who persecuted other religions. if people dismissed this madman and his mentally ill commands there would be a lot less killing in his name and banning immigration to save us from his vicious followers would not need to be considered.

[JUDAS]

Edit

sent from my left foot

Edited December 11, 2015 by JUDAS

[jacky54]

More from the follower who says Islam means peace (submission) and that it is a religion of peace, after god destroys America presumably

"All black people! Get to your nearest Muslim mosque as soon as possible because god Allah says the time is short for the white man's rule. America is under divine chastism. There's gonna be earthquakes, even right here in this city, buildings are gonna go underground, there's gonna be all kinds of plagues and tornadoes and droughts. That's why so many white women are sent out into black neighborhoods, that's why immigration has been pushed so. Destruction is coming on America… God's gonna destroy America… The planet earth belongs to the black man… Hell is coming."

Muhamad Ali

[Jai Dee]

One flame post has been removed from this thread.

[geriatrickid]

Muhammed Ali must have been miraculously cured as he has gone from an incapacitated inarticulate brain damaged former boxer to a political commentator. He has had Parkinsons for 30+ years and it is becoming more severe as he ages.. Accompanying this type of long term illness at this stage is dementia and other serious physical issues. The poor guy is suffering at best. One need only look at the late Robin Williams to understand the toll the disease takes. The point I am making here is that it is doubtful that Ali made the comment. Someone else most likely spoke in his name.

I also see that Muhammed Ali has been elevated to the status of Saint. Sorry to say, but he is not great, nor did he do much for the USA. The image many have of him is the result of fabricated image building. This doesn't mean he is bad man or didn't accomplish much. Nor is he any worse than other boxers who came before and after him. His 4 wives and multiple extra marital affairs speak to his sense of honor and respect for women. Despite all the hoopla, he didn't make the contribution to society some of you think he did. He never campaigned against black on black violence, the leading cause of criminal death for afro americans. He didn't campaign on behalf of Parkinsons sufferers as Michael J. Fox has. When Ali was healthy, and physically able, he did not speak out on the match fixing and corruption in the professional boxing business. His last 2 matches were travesties, shams and broke every rule on ethics. He's been used by the established powers that be despite his claims of independence and embrace of various politically charged positions. He was just another uneducated used and abused by the system. And now, someone is using him to make a political statement.

[simple1]

You omit to mention Ali commenced his journey away from radicalism in 1975 and eventually transitioned to spiritual Islam.

[jacky54]

Spiritual Islam? Islam can never be spiritual if the believer still claims the koran is the word of god, as it contains 109 verses advocating violence it is not.Spiritual Islam is just PR spin for the ideology of hate and division.

[jacky54]

Muhammed Ali must have been miraculously cured as he has gone from an incapacitated inarticulate brain damaged former boxer to a political commentator. He has had Parkinsons for 30+ years and it is becoming more severe as he ages.. Accompanying this type of long term illness at this stage is dementia and other serious physical issues. The poor guy is suffering at best. One need only look at the late Robin Williams to understand the toll the disease takes. The point I am making here is that it is doubtful that Ali made the comment. Someone else most likely spoke in his name.

I also see that Muhammed Ali has been elevated to the status of Saint. Sorry to say, but he is not great, nor did he do much for the USA. The image many have of him is the result of fabricated image building. This doesn't mean he is bad man or didn't accomplish much. Nor is he any worse than other boxers who came before and after him. His 4 wives and multiple extra marital affairs speak to his sense of honor and respect for women. Despite all the hoopla, he didn't make the contribution to society some of you think he did. He never campaigned against black on black violence, the leading cause of criminal death for afro americans. He didn't campaign on behalf of Parkinsons sufferers as Michael J. Fox has. When Ali was healthy, and physically able, he did not speak out on the match fixing and corruption in the professional boxing business. His last 2 matches were travesties, shams and broke every rule on ethics. He's been used by the established powers that be despite his claims of independence and embrace of various politically charged positions. He was just another uneducated used and abused by the system. And now, someone is using him to make a political statement.

Hallelujah, good to see not everyone on here has been duped by this mans myth making. Afro Americans really deserve better role models than this idiot Ali.

Real American heroes are more like this guy, not loud mouthed racist show offs

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/09/us/tibor-rubin-is-dead-at-86-award-of-medal-of-honor-was-delayed-by-anti-semitism.html?_r=0

Edited December 11, 2015 by jacky54

[7by7]

This actually is a very high profile condemnation if islamic jihad. Good! It is also good to see it too. However, the disconnect is still maintained. Islamic jihad does have something to do with islamic...

That is why disparate jihadis through time have all quoted the very same islamic sources for their authority.

That they claim Islamic teachings and writings, including the Koran itself, justifies their actions, even instruct them to carry those actions out, does not make it true.

The persecution of Jews by Christians over the centuries was justified because they were deemed to be 'Christ killers.'

Today, the Pro Life activists who bomb abortion clinics in America believe they are doing the will of God.

I could go on and list many more examples; but that would take up many pages!

Great that he said this, wish there were more and even more importantly, I wish there was a real push to show as much collective outrage at the inexorable march of jihad as their has been to protest Trump. Do both. I dont care, but also unite and protest islamic jihad.

As has been shown many times in many different topics, Muslims across the world DO condemn IS and other terrorists who claim to be acting in the name of Islam.

From individuals in campaigns such as Not in my name and You aint no Muslim bruv (started after the stabbing at Leytonstone tube) to political leaders, religious leaders and community spokespeople. Muslims have demonstrated against IS etc. on the streets of European cities. Fatwas in the thousands have been issued against IS.

Yet you and those of a similar mindset constantly ignore or, at best, dismiss all of that.

Why?

[uptheos]

This actually is a very high profile condemnation if islamic jihad. Good! It is also good to see it too. However, the disconnect is still maintained. Islamic jihad does have something to do with islamic...

That is why disparate jihadis through time have all quoted the very same islamic sources for their authority.

That they claim Islamic teachings and writings, including the Koran itself, justifies their actions, even instruct them to carry those actions out, does not make it true.

The persecution of Jews by Christians over the centuries was justified because they were deemed to be 'Christ killers.'

Today, the Pro Life activists who bomb abortion clinics in America believe they are doing the will of God.

I could go on and list many more examples; but that would take up many pages!

Great that he said this, wish there were more and even more importantly, I wish there was a real push to show as much collective outrage at the inexorable march of jihad as their has been to protest Trump. Do both. I dont care, but also unite and protest islamic jihad.

As has been shown many times in many different topics, Muslims across the world DO condemn IS and other terrorists who claim to be acting in the name of Islam.

From individuals in campaigns such as Not in my name and You aint no Muslim bruv (started after the stabbing at Leytonstone tube) to political leaders, religious leaders and community spokespeople. Muslims have demonstrated against IS etc. on the streets of European cities. Fatwas in the thousands have been issued against IS.

Yet you and those of a similar mindset constantly ignore or, at best, dismiss all of that.

Why?

Yeah right and who is going to carry out all these thousands of fatwa's that in theory should eliminate ISIS?

[7by7]

Uptheos,

You obviously do not know what a fatwa is! I'm not surprised.

What is a Fatwa?

In recent years, the term “fatwā” has been widely used throughout the media, usually to indicate that a death sentence has been dealt to someone or some group of people. The limited use of this term has resulted in a limited understanding of its meaning. ISCA therefore offers the following statement to elucidate the true significance of the term “fatwā.”

Most importantly, a fatwā is not by definition a pronouncement of death or a declaration of war. A fatwā is an Islamic legal pronouncement, issued by an expert in religious law (mufti), pertaining to a specific issue......

In addition, you are ignoring the fact that the overwhelming majority of troops currently fighting IS on the ground are Muslims!