UK expats for EU exit

[buddy]

I just read an article on bloomberg.com regarding "divided Britain". It´s about yet another YouGov survey claiming to show that the "Brexiteers" are

- older folks

- less educated than the "remainers"

- lower class people

Wow, I immediately thought of us TVF users here in this thread. Not very flattering, ...lol......

Anyway, what I actually quite liked in the article was this piece of analysis:

Both those for and against staying in Europe told pollsters by 6-to-1 margins that the economy has fundamental problems, but as YouGov President Peter Kellner noted, the crucial difference is that they disagree about the causes. The “remain” voters blamed the problems on the banks, the Conservative government and growing inequality. The “leave” voters picked different scapegoats: EU regulations, low-wage immigrant workers and the previous Labour government.

The referendum is not really about Europe or at least it isn't just about Europe. It's about austerity and inequality, opportunity and insecurity. Europe is stuck in a battle for self definition, one that is playing out across major democracies. This is the undertow that threatens Cameron and his "remain" camp.

A political change in response to global changes and to expectations of Europeans may be states leaving what so many believe to be a failed or disappointingly ineffective EU beginning with the UK.

Exactly...If Britain doesn't get out of the EU now when the EU eventually fails and we are still in it it will drag us down with it.

[buddy]

True....

The sad thing is that whatever the outcome roughly half the population will feel hugely disappointed and in case of a Remain vote even cheated on and robbed. Britain will remain a vastly divided country when it comes to its relationship with the continent and the EU.... regardless of what June 23 will bring. :-(

Well the EU only has itself to blame as the EU wasn't confident enough to ask us by democratic vote to vote to be in a political union which has divided Britain and European countries.

Instead of a referendum in 1975 to vote for a political union it used the front of a trading block which makes absolute common sense to join, after that the EU used lies, function creep and deceit to to morph and achieve its aim of a European superstate that robbed nations of their sovereignty and hard fought democracy...thats the root cause of why we are divided.

My friends, my family and i want our stolen sovereignty and democracy back from unelected EU despots that stole it in the first place in collusion with self serving treacherous British politicians.

VOTE OUT!

Edited June 15, 2016 by buddy

[DUS]

My friends, my family and i want our stolen sovereignty and democracy back from unelected EU despots that stole it in the first place in collusion with self serving treacherous British politicians.

I accept that feeling even though I don´t share it. At least I don´t blame "the EU" for it but the politicians and governments in the member states because without them the EU could do sod all. I blame Cam, Merkel and all the others who for the last few decades pulled the EU in a direction that (at least today) a large proportion of the people (and maybe even a majority) does not want to head for.

The key decision makers at EU level are not an alien life form. These guys are the elected heads of state that you and I voted for. In that regard, you and I are partially to blame for the mess the EU is in at the moment. The good news for you is: you are about to make amends for it by voting out.

In a way, although I am pro EU in principle, I kind of hope Britain votes to leave since this might be the only and last chance for the EU to realise that imminent change is the only remaining hope of avoiding its total collapse. But then again, I guess I am asking for too much from our (EU) politicians. Sigh!

[nong38]

The scare stories continue as Georgie Osborne "I know all about money-I have a child savings account" has now threatened to raise income tax by 2p and put extra duty on beer and petrol as well as cutting more services ( although his pension will no doubt not be affected ).

If you put all these predictions together from the "remain" camp it would look truly terrifying to the general public and they should be ashamed of themselves, that they are not just shows how desperate they are to stay "in". It looks like too much hard work if we leave, not to mention all those nice little jobs that may just come up in the future.

It might be that Osborne might have to settle for a Scoutmasters job at Walmington-on-Sea, if only he could learn to tie his own shoes laces!

[DUS]

I admire the expats´ altruism, risking even more pension woes and a sharp drop in the pound all for a greater cause and to the benefit of future generations. Hat´s off to you!

[nong38]

You are right. If I was thinking of me and the right here and now I would to stay in, no doubt about it, but, I think about the future, my kids, their time and their future and I think we/ they would be better out. There will be a downside for a while, the £ will drop ( no one mentions that that will exporters, providing they dont have imports ) and the markets will slide, but the markets tend to build things in early, we may have seen the worst of the drops. Once the result has been declared things will soon settle down to the position it finds itself in.

In this debate there are few actual facts most of it is speculation, what might happen. The only cast iron fact is this. If we vote to leave then we will get our laws through our own Parliament and all the the EU laws can be repealed, we then make our own laws. We also get control back of our borders. These two things are the only facts, there is no speculation here.

There have always been three issues in the debate, economy, immigration and democracy, on the last two the is fact on the economy its all speculation, from both sides, so what it comes down to is a simple question. Are you willing to accept the economic risk to get control back of immigration and democracy?

[buddy]

SWITZERLAND have seen the light and have withdrawn their application to join the EU.

That very move saved Switzerland from being dissolved as a sovereign nation.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/680342/Switzerland-withdraws-application-join-European-Union-Brexit-Britain-vote-EU

[buddy]

I think the 'remain' camp are now verging on the stupid,the latest claim that Bus Passes and OAP TV licences 'MAY BE IN DANGER'

What in the hell has that got to do with the EU ??

All their claims have been preceeded by the word MAY.

Lets be more specific.....No one can possibly know what might happen should the UK vote for Brexit. The EU might act tough or they might be reasonable.Come June 23rd we will see.

Oceans will boil, oxygen will turn into mustard gas, the Earth will stop spinning, all your cats and dogs will contract rabies and infect you and the end of the world is nigh if you don't vote to remain in the EU.

The remain campaign instead of resorting to scaremongering and fear tactics should shout up what they consider are the positives of remaining in the EU...but alas!

[elliss]

Lets face it , most of us have chosen to leave the UK , and probably are not able to vote on EU membership ,and rightly so.

The only certainty , is that the PM. came into office on the strength of let , the British electorate decide on EU membership ,joker .

He is scare mongering and bullying ,the voters on his understanding , of a so called fair and Democratic vote .5555

Whatever , the outcome of the vote , only one thing is certain , there will be new leaders of both the major politcal parties , before Xmas .

[nong38]

I watched Paxman in Brussels last night, its on youtube and its an interesting programme on how the EU works, well worth a look. Get the kettle on, 1 hour.

[Ace of Pop]

If it's any use to you Brits the average Portuguese want out. We can remain poor without their help.Even the IMF lend us money that's spent on things we don't need,like Marina extensions,and Motorways we can't afford the Toii Rates.Least yo have chance to vote,it suits our super rich to stay in and beg for more, that You Brits cough up so easy.

[buddy]

I watched Paxman in Brussels last night, its on youtube and its an interesting programme on how the EU works, well worth a look. Get the kettle on, 1 hour.

If you could post the link for the Paxman programme on how the EU works that would be great.

Here is another -

[buddy]

If it's any use to you Brits the average Portuguese want out. We can remain poor without their help.Even the IMF lend us money that's spent on things we don't need,like Marina extensions,and Motorways we can't afford the Toii Rates.Least yo have chance to vote,it suits our super rich to stay in and beg for more, that You Brits cough up so easy.

And boy do the British cough up a ton of money into the EU bottomless corrupt money pit.

[harrry]

Only bigots want to leave the EU

You're not European are you, your attitude sounds like it. Ok I am a bigot then i want to leave, just to get The things back my grandfather fought for,in the first world war . Freedom of speech, democracy , things like, that not a dictatorship.

I think that is what they said when the predecessor to the US left Britain.

[nong38]

I watched Paxman in Brussels last night, its on youtube and its an interesting programme on how the EU works, well worth a look. Get the kettle on, 1 hour.

If you could post the link for the Paxman programme on how the EU works that would be great.

Here is another -

Sorry I am not that good at those sort of things but if you go to youtube and type Paxman in Brussels it comes up, also have a look for Brexit the Movie, both would tell you why we have to leave and how the EU behaves and treats ordinary people.

This is the rich and powerful against the people, our one chance to take back control of our lives and our future.

[elliss]

If it's any use to you Brits the average Portuguese want out. We can remain poor without their help.Even the IMF lend us money that's spent on things we don't need,like Marina extensions,and Motorways we can't afford the Toii Rates.Least yo have chance to vote,it suits our super rich to stay in and beg for more, that You Brits cough up so easy.

UK out . Then the domino effect , kicks in asap .

Could be worse , I could be a German , tax payer .

[nong38]

Interesting thing I was reading earlier is that the bookies and the pollsters are at odds with each other, pollsters veering towards and exit whilst bookies say its odds on we will stay. Then there are the voters themselves, who will be proved right? Sometimes the bookies catch a cold, sometimes they are forced to paint a picture a different colour than what it really is. This time next week we will know.

[DUS]

I hope the bookies have got it right this time....

[buddy]

I hope the bookies have got it right this time....

Why do you wish Britain to be ruled by a foreign power?

[HauptmannUK]

I really hope we stay - yes I believe the economic forecasts that say Britain will be worse off it we leave. I also believe the Norwegian PM when she says 'Britain won't like it' outside the EU.

I watched Michael Gove give his performance on BBC TV the other night, saying how Europe is run by an 'elite' who don't care about working people. This is the same Gove (along with Boris) who attended Rupert Murdoch's wedding... Frankly I would rather put my kids' futures in the hands of some Eurocrats than in the hands of those two chancers...

[wooloomooloo]

Frankly I would rather put my kids' futures in the hands of some Eurocrats than in the hands of those two chancers...

You're not putting your family's future in the hands of Gove and/or Boris.

It's a straight yes or no referendum and not a difficult question to comprehend. Make your own mind up.

[buddy]

I really hope we stay - yes I believe the economic forecasts that say Britain will be worse off it we leave. I also believe the Norwegian PM when she says 'Britain won't like it' outside the EU.

I watched Michael Gove give his performance on BBC TV the other night, saying how Europe is run by an 'elite' who don't care about working people. This is the same Gove (along with Boris) who attended Rupert Murdoch's wedding... Frankly I would rather put my kids' futures in the hands of some Eurocrats than in the hands of those two chancers...

Do you mean those economic forecasts that are produced by the LSE, the very same LSE that receives millions in funding from the EU?... or the economic forecast of the CBI and others who also received nearly a million pounds of funding from the EU?

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/economics/article4262740.ece

Isn't it better to listen to a man with economic knowledge put under scrutiny than EU vested interests?

Here Professor Minford puts the case to a House of Commons select committee -

You are doing the exact opposite of what you wish for your children by voting to remain in the EU...they will have no democratic say and they will live under unelected foreign rulers that they cannot get rid of if they don't like them, unlike in the UK we have the opportunity to vote them out of power every 5 years if we don't like them.

VOTE OUT!

[nong38]

I really hope we stay - yes I believe the economic forecasts that say Britain will be worse off it we leave. I also believe the Norwegian PM when she says 'Britain won't like it' outside the EU.

I watched Michael Gove give his performance on BBC TV the other night, saying how Europe is run by an 'elite' who don't care about working people. This is the same Gove (along with Boris) who attended Rupert Murdoch's wedding... Frankly I would rather put my kids' futures in the hands of some Eurocrats than in the hands of those two chancers...

Murdoch rich bloke that he is is banging the LEAVE drum now as well as a growing number of others. I would hardly describe Gove and Johnson as a couple of chancers. Boris comes over as a bit of a lad its true but he does make sense and Michael has risen to the position he is in through hard work, no silver spoon here, he makes his case well and does not get rattled or carried away easily.

Camerons Government will be carrying out the withdrawal from the EU if an OUT vote it is, what part Boris and Michael will play in that is yet to be decided.

I would suggest you do go an have a look at Paxman in Brussels and Brexit the Movie and see if you still feel the same way about staying in, you have nothing to lose by having a look.

[sawadee1947]

Any Brits in Thailand who feel strongly about UK leaving the failed federal EU and wanting to support the exit by registering to vote , Heres a link to new group

https://www.facebook.com/groups/177762889240890/

Oh yeah, all idiots in one group. What is the name of this group? Losers of the future?

[Eclipse]

In the unlikely event of a leave vote, I doubt we will leave anyway. Especially if the result is close.

The result is not legally binding and is only a recommendation to help Parliament decide .

Edited June 18, 2016 by Eclipse

[brewsterbudgen]

I hope the bookies have got it right this time....

Why do you wish Britain to be ruled by a foreign power?

Which "foreign power"? If we're in the EU we're part of it, and along with Germany and France, a substantial and influential part of it.

[GuestHouse]

It would be interesting to see how many 'UK expats for EU exist', have actually bothered to register to vote in the referendum.

A little honesty on that point might shed some light on the posts in this whole thread.

[nong38]

I sent my postal vote off on the 8th and I voted OUT.

It amazes me why people dont see the EU for what it is, a protectionist, power mad, un-democratic project run by the powerful and rich to the detriment of the poor. You can be sure that when it collapses the rich and powerful will still have well feathered nests and the poor people will spend the rest of their lives paying for it.

Things are moving on at a pace, main allies in the EU are our Nordic/Scandanavian friends, it seems almost certain that if we go the Swedes will demand a referendum ( according to reports on the BBC ) with Denmark and Finland wavering as they will isolated.

Someone mentioned Norway in an earlier post, the Norwegian Government wanted to Join the EU and I think still do, its the people who rejected it by referendum, I can foresee a small alliance forming here outside the EU, a good one based on shared interests and sovereign countries.

To his credit Cameron has said that the vote of the referendum is the deciding factor, if the majority vote out, then we leave, there will be no vote in Parliament. I can see why some would like the result to be verified in the House of Commons, after all we know that the EU is where old UK politicians go see out their lives and die at 3 times the salary and that I kid you not, there 10,000 employees in Brussels who earn more than 3 times that of our PM and that cannot be right!

[dick dasterdly]

I really hope we stay - yes I believe the economic forecasts that say Britain will be worse off it we leave. I also believe the Norwegian PM when she says 'Britain won't like it' outside the EU.

I watched Michael Gove give his performance on BBC TV the other night, saying how Europe is run by an 'elite' who don't care about working people. This is the same Gove (along with Boris) who attended Rupert Murdoch's wedding... Frankly I would rather put my kids' futures in the hands of some Eurocrats than in the hands of those two chancers...

I'm inclined to agree, but you also need to watch the Andrew Marr/Vaisey interview. Vaisey was revealed as a complete and utter fool.

Not to mention Osborne's 'emergency budget' in the event of Brexit .

[dick dasterdly]

I really hope we stay - yes I believe the economic forecasts that say Britain will be worse off it we leave. I also believe the Norwegian PM when she says 'Britain won't like it' outside the EU.

I watched Michael Gove give his performance on BBC TV the other night, saying how Europe is run by an 'elite' who don't care about working people. This is the same Gove (along with Boris) who attended Rupert Murdoch's wedding... Frankly I would rather put my kids' futures in the hands of some Eurocrats than in the hands of those two chancers...

Murdoch rich bloke that he is is banging the LEAVE drum now as well as a growing number of others. I would hardly describe Gove and Johnson as a couple of chancers. Boris comes over as a bit of a lad its true but he does make sense and Michael has risen to the position he is in through hard work, no silver spoon here, he makes his case well and does not get rattled or carried away easily.

Camerons Government will be carrying out the withdrawal from the EU if an OUT vote it is, what part Boris and Michael will play in that is yet to be decided.

I would suggest you do go an have a look at Paxman in Brussels and Brexit the Movie and see if you still feel the same way about staying in, you have nothing to lose by having a look.

I agree with the emboldened part - shame Paxman didn't address the cost of the EU, and only marginally addressed the ridiculous financial waste.