Prayut has democracy wish for the New Year

[metisdead]

Off topic posts, inflammatory posts and replies have been removed.

[phoenixdoglover]

There is not much hope when the PM believes the purpose of the judicial system is to give people the chance to prove their innocence.

Holy bass-ackwards, Batman!

Also, there is little hope as long as the Constitution omits proper accountability for the Military. Thailand has a continuous military government that takes a break from time to time.

The current crop of wise men just want to perpetuate this madness for another generation.

[tbthailand]

Easily done. Use powers you have granted yourself to reinstate the 1997 constitution with effect from today, lift the ban on political campaigning and freedom of assembly, call an election for 6 weeks time (17 January), . Accept and abide by the result, however much you may dislike it. Any disputes, decisions and disagreements about the election to be handled by the courts, with no interference.

Sorted, by 19 January you will have your wish - three weeks into the new year!

And 2017 we have the first demonstrations because the new Shinawatra government is extreme corrupt.

2018 the first shootings on the demonstrators and the first tear gas. Summer 2018 Thailand is on the brink to civil war. Autumn 2018 there is a coup as last resort to prevent civil war.

Great idea

There must be a real good solution to prevent that unfortunately Prayut is a kind of male version of Yingluck and won't be able to do it.

He could try to find someone smart and resign....Or he could ask the royal institutions "I have complete failed, please help repairing the country"

maybe the solution is that the military is neutered and doesn't launch another coup again, ever, ... period...

Then the people can decide about their government, and then the one side of the political divide that doesn't ever win will have to find out how to appeal to the voters or go the way of the military dinosaurs...

I know you don't see it, but the 97 constitution enfranchised a huge number of Thais. The country won't go back to a feudal elite system for very long because the majority of Thais have changed and won't accept being "ruled" any longer. They want to pick their own government, period.

[FangFerang]

Easily done. Use powers you have granted yourself to reinstate the 1997 constitution with effect from today, lift the ban on political campaigning and freedom of assembly, call an election for 6 weeks time (17 January), . Accept and abide by the result, however much you may dislike it. Any disputes, decisions and disagreements about the election to be handled by the courts, with no interference.

Sorted, by 19 January you will have your wish - three weeks into the new year!

If he did that! Don't you think it would lead to yet another coup in a few years? As much as I dislike not having a democratic gov I disliked even more the raping of country and they corruption instilled in the daily practices of almost every Thai against their own people and foreigners alike. I do realise that P is not doing a cutup job there and their are many bad things happening with his being in power but, if! And it is a tentative if, he can do even a little of what he promises and make so that Thailand doesn't have such corruption within the gov walls then that is a beginning to reform all of Thailand into a better place. This country does need a swift hand of justice right now in dealing with the outright robbery of its own people with their use of corruption which has developed over the past 50 years or so and it will not change overnight. Without the proper laws and guides to ensure a really democratic gov getting people to run the country who truly care about thais and Thailand and not about fattening their families portfolios Thailand will never move forward even if they hold elections next year.

As the devils advocate speaks through me P is totally clueless about how people perceive the job of the RTP. The people are totally aware of the bribes and mafia like organisation and are justified not to trust or call on a policeman for help.

18 coups, foolish man. 18. None solved anything. All had the same agenda. None succeeded.

18 coups. Explain that, dolt. Selective memory is laughable, and I am laughing. At you.

[Alwyn]

<"If people do not follow the law, the law will be less sacred. Please do not break the law. How can we live in a lawless land?" he said.> Says the man who broke the law by staging an illegal coup.... and then changed all the laws so he can not be arrested, Says the man who arrests people not for breaking the law, but because he is angry at what somebody says..... wow, the irony is over-powering

[thelonius]

Easily done. Use powers you have granted yourself to reinstate the 1997 constitution with effect from today, lift the ban on political campaigning and freedom of assembly, call an election for 6 weeks time (17 January), . Accept and abide by the result, however much you may dislike it. Any disputes, decisions and disagreements about the election to be handled by the courts, with no interference.

Sorted, by 19 January you will have your wish - three weeks into the new year!

And 2017 we have the first demonstrations because the new Shinawatra government is extreme corrupt.

2018 the first shootings on the demonstrators and the first tear gas. Summer 2018 Thailand is on the brink to civil war. Autumn 2018 there is a coup as last resort to prevent civil war.

Great idea

There must be a real good solution to prevent that unfortunately Prayut is a kind of male version of Yingluck and won't be able to do it.

He could try to find someone smart and resign....Or he could ask the royal institutions "I have complete failed, please help repairing the country"

the real good solution is a simple one - having a solid constitution that prevents elected governments from abusing power that then causes unrest and eventually involves the military having to step in to keep the peace, the key is having a properly written constitution that cannot be changed without either a referendum of the people or a 2/3 majority in both houses and even having some critical important single aspects of the constitution that """"must"""" go to the people to change

when Thaksin/PTP couldn't find a way to achieve their abusive goals because the constitution prevented it they then set about changing the constitution which as it happens was relatively easy to do - that is where the problem is, if the rules don't allow us to abuse power then we will change the rules - the typical mentality "we are the government we will do what we want" this is fundamentally wrong and flawed - it is the peoples constitution and only they can approve certain critical amendments

a fine example is the complexity and difficulty involved in getting amendments to the US and Australian constitution - it is almost impossible and that is how it should be

when Thaksin/PTP couldn't find a way to achieve their abusive goals because the constitution prevented it they then set about changing the constitution which as it happens was relatively easy to do - that is where the problem is, if the rules don't allow us to abuse power then we will change the rules - the typical mentality "we are the government we will do what we want" this is fundamentally wrong and flawed - it is the peoples constitution and only they can approve certain critical amendments

and now the reality of the situation;

The Constitutional courts ruled in 2012 that the PTP government could amend the constitution but only one article at a time. This they did wrt a couple of articles. One, the proposed change to a fully elected Senate was decreed by the CC as to be attempting to overthrow the state and they invoked article 68, a ridiculous accusation but there it was. The most misguided amendment, the Amnesty Bill, was debated for 19 hours in parliament in the final reading but the opposition threw their toys out of the pram (not for the first time) and boycotted the vote. To become Law the Bill then has to pass to the "second house", The Senate, which then has the power to pass the bill or throw it back did the latter. By law the Bill cannot then be re-submitted for 180 days under the constitution. The PTP government said that they would not re submit the Amnesty Bill. Nor would they because they had managed to upset their own supporters with the Bill and regardless of what some may say on this forum, they are not stupid.

So far so democratic. Please explain how any part of the attempt to amend the constitution reflects your assertion on "how relatively easy it is to do"?

I notice you make no reference to Abhisit making ammendments to the Constitution (successfully, with no interference by the CC) to change the constitution boundarys and increase the number of party list MPs just prior to the 20111 Eelction in a failed attempt to give the advantage to the Democrat Party.

Most notably of all I see you fail to mention the easiest way by far to amend a constitution is to carry out a military coup. Hence 19 coups, 20 constitutions - See a correlation there?

Edited December 13, 2015 by thelonius

[Thaidream]

Democracy has outlived its ability to be a governing principle simply because it is all controlled by the wealthy and their minions who are bankers, lawyers and accountants. People on this board extol the democratic process in their home countries yet they live in Thailand. As an American I am appalled by the so called democratic process. There is no one in the American Congress or running for president that represents the average person. They are all wealthy controlled by business interests. If the General had not intervened- Thailand would still be in chaos or controlled by a fugitive megalomaniac and his sister. You all want an election. Who is there to elect. Take a look at the potential candidates. They all represent the past which we need to bury forever. Thailand has an opportunity to destroy money politics. This takes a lot of time and effort because those that have it want even more. The US is the best example of what Thailand needs to avoid. Greed is not good- it destroys everyone. If the General succeeds in his quest, it will be a miracle envied by the poor of the West.

[MockingJay]

Spongebob Squarepants was yesterday... Here comes Pinocchio Flatnose!

[h90]

Easily done. Use powers you have granted yourself to reinstate the 1997 constitution with effect from today, lift the ban on political campaigning and freedom of assembly, call an election for 6 weeks time (17 January), . Accept and abide by the result, however much you may dislike it. Any disputes, decisions and disagreements about the election to be handled by the courts, with no interference.

Sorted, by 19 January you will have your wish - three weeks into the new year!

And 2017 we have the first demonstrations because the new Shinawatra government is extreme corrupt.

2018 the first shootings on the demonstrators and the first tear gas. Summer 2018 Thailand is on the brink to civil war. Autumn 2018 there is a coup as last resort to prevent civil war.

Great idea

There must be a real good solution to prevent that unfortunately Prayut is a kind of male version of Yingluck and won't be able to do it.

He could try to find someone smart and resign....Or he could ask the royal institutions "I have complete failed, please help repairing the country"

you described the coming (hopefully not) desaster very well. I can't see a solution for the future. Shinawatra will not give up and the fight between the clans will continue with clashes and (hopefully not) cicil war. You can't change a rotten system within a few years unless PM will stay in power for a longer time?

My problem is that I don't see any serious attempt to change things at the moment

[h90]

Easily done. Use powers you have granted yourself to reinstate the 1997 constitution with effect from today, lift the ban on political campaigning and freedom of assembly, call an election for 6 weeks time (17 January), . Accept and abide by the result, however much you may dislike it. Any disputes, decisions and disagreements about the election to be handled by the courts, with no interference.

Sorted, by 19 January you will have your wish - three weeks into the new year!

And 2017 we have the first demonstrations because the new Shinawatra government is extreme corrupt.

2018 the first shootings on the demonstrators and the first tear gas. Summer 2018 Thailand is on the brink to civil war. Autumn 2018 there is a coup as last resort to prevent civil war.

Great idea

There must be a real good solution to prevent that unfortunately Prayut is a kind of male version of Yingluck and won't be able to do it.

He could try to find someone smart and resign....Or he could ask the royal institutions "I have complete failed, please help repairing the country"

the real good solution is a simple one - having a solid constitution that prevents elected governments from abusing power that then causes unrest and eventually involves the military having to step in to keep the peace, the key is having a properly written constitution that cannot be changed without either a referendum of the people or a 2/3 majority in both houses and even having some critical important single aspects of the constitution that """"must"""" go to the people to change

when Thaksin/PTP couldn't find a way to achieve their abusive goals because the constitution prevented it they then set about changing the constitution which as it happens was relatively easy to do - that is where the problem is, if the rules don't allow us to abuse power then we will change the rules - the typical mentality "we are the government we will do what we want" this is fundamentally wrong and flawed - it is the peoples constitution and only they can approve certain critical amendments

a fine example is the complexity and difficulty involved in getting amendments to the US and Australian constitution - it is almost impossible and that is how it should be

I posted it somewhere else: instead of reinventing the constitution just copy one that has be proofed to work well. And the constitutions I know have something like that. But new they'll have another homebrew constitution with another 1000 mistakes.

[h90]

Easily done. Use powers you have granted yourself to reinstate the 1997 constitution with effect from today, lift the ban on political campaigning and freedom of assembly, call an election for 6 weeks time (17 January), . Accept and abide by the result, however much you may dislike it. Any disputes, decisions and disagreements about the election to be handled by the courts, with no interference.

Sorted, by 19 January you will have your wish - three weeks into the new year!

And 2017 we have the first demonstrations because the new Shinawatra government is extreme corrupt.

2018 the first shootings on the demonstrators and the first tear gas. Summer 2018 Thailand is on the brink to civil war. Autumn 2018 there is a coup as last resort to prevent civil war.

Great idea

There must be a real good solution to prevent that unfortunately Prayut is a kind of male version of Yingluck and won't be able to do it.

He could try to find someone smart and resign....Or he could ask the royal institutions "I have complete failed, please help repairing the country"

The single thing most likely to lead to a civil war in this country (and heaven forbid there is one, I have seen one at first hand, former Yugoslavia); is repeatedly overturning the government that the people have elected, and refusing to let them decide, through the ballot box, who is to form its replacement. Four times in nine years now isn't it?

Democracy, with the military subordinate (and willing to carry out the lawful instructions of) an elected civilian government will not lead to a civil war.

I am counting 2 times in the 15 years I am here......Yugoslavia.....I doubt you can compare Thailand with Yugoslavia (which has several different religions, languages and even ways of writing).

First of all we need clean elections and not make the cross here and collect 500 Baht. That isn't democracy. And the resulting government is often at least half police and half army which is also unknown in other countries.

On the other hand Thailand had 18 coups (I think 18) and beside some troubles downtown Bangkok no one ever cared much. Surprisingly only minor effect on the economic. No effect on tourism (well unless yellow blocks the airport or red burns down downtown).

So I guess the majority of the people don't care the coups much.

[JAG]

Easily done. Use powers you have granted yourself to reinstate the 1997 constitution with effect from today, lift the ban on political campaigning and freedom of assembly, call an election for 6 weeks time (17 January), . Accept and abide by the result, however much you may dislike it. Any disputes, decisions and disagreements about the election to be handled by the courts, with no interference.

Sorted, by 19 January you will have your wish - three weeks into the new year!

And 2017 we have the first demonstrations because the new Shinawatra government is extreme corrupt.

2018 the first shootings on the demonstrators and the first tear gas. Summer 2018 Thailand is on the brink to civil war. Autumn 2018 there is a coup as last resort to prevent civil war.

Great idea

There must be a real good solution to prevent that unfortunately Prayut is a kind of male version of Yingluck and won't be able to do it.

He could try to find someone smart and resign....Or he could ask the royal institutions "I have complete failed, please help repairing the country"

The single thing most likely to lead to a civil war in this country (and heaven forbid there is one, I have seen one at first hand, former Yugoslavia); is repeatedly overturning the government that the people have elected, and refusing to let them decide, through the ballot box, who is to form its replacement. Four times in nine years now isn't it?

Democracy, with the military subordinate (and willing to carry out the lawful instructions of) an elected civilian government will not lead to a civil war.

I am counting 2 times in the 15 years I am here......Yugoslavia.....I doubt you can compare Thailand with Yugoslavia (which has several different religions, languages and even ways of writing).

First of all we need clean elections and not make the cross here and collect 500 Baht. That isn't democracy. And the resulting government is often at least half police and half army which is also unknown in other countries.

On the other hand Thailand had 18 coups (I think 18) and beside some troubles downtown Bangkok no one ever cared much. Surprisingly only minor effect on the economic. No effect on tourism (well unless yellow blocks the airport or red burns down downtown).

So I guess the majority of the people don't care the coups much.

I make it 4:, Thaksin Shinawatra overthrown by a coup in 2006 whilst elections (widely expected to result in his re-election)were pending.

Samak Sundaravej thrown out in 2008 over the "cooking show business" (hardly the Constitutional Courts finest hour!).

Somchai Wongsarat, again ousted by the Constitutional Court.

Yingluck Shinawatrain 2014.

I mentioned Yugoslavia, not to compare it with Thailand, but because you mentioned civil war. I think my post makes that clear.

[micmichd]

My wish for the PM is a better reputation for the part of the country he comes from.

[mrrizzla]

Wait, coups AREN'T don't effect the economy and tourism?

So what is happening now is what? an anomaly?

[sawadee1947]

Easily done. Use powers you have granted yourself to reinstate the 1997 constitution with effect from today, lift the ban on political campaigning and freedom of assembly, call an election for 6 weeks time (17 January), . Accept and abide by the result, however much you may dislike it. Any disputes, decisions and disagreements about the election to be handled by the courts, with no interference.

Sorted, by 19 January you will have your wish - three weeks into the new year!

And 2017 we have the first demonstrations because the new Shinawatra government is extreme corrupt.

2018 the first shootings on the demonstrators and the first tear gas. Summer 2018 Thailand is on the brink to civil war. Autumn 2018 there is a coup as last resort to prevent civil war.

Great idea

There must be a real good solution to prevent that unfortunately Prayut is a kind of male version of Yingluck and won't be able to do it.

He could try to find someone smart and resign....Or he could ask the royal institutions "I have complete failed, please help repairing the country"

you described the coming (hopefully not) desaster very well. I can't see a solution for the future. Shinawatra will not give up and the fight between the clans will continue with clashes and (hopefully not) cicil war. You can't change a rotten system within a few years unless PM will stay in power for a longer time?

My problem is that I don't see any serious attempt to change things at the moment

yes, that's right. He got the power but doesn't use it. I'm not sure there would be improvement after 5 or more years of Prayut ruling the country.

[Srikcir]

Easily done. Use powers you have granted yourself to reinstate the 1997 constitution with effect from today, lift the ban on political campaigning and freedom of assembly, call an election for 6 weeks time (17 January), . Accept and abide by the result, however much you may dislike it. Any disputes, decisions and disagreements about the election to be handled by the courts, with no interference.

Sorted, by 19 January you will have your wish - three weeks into the new year!

And 2017 we have the first demonstrations because the new Shinawatra government is extreme corrupt.

2018 the first shootings on the demonstrators and the first tear gas. Summer 2018 Thailand is on the brink to civil war. Autumn 2018 there is a coup as last resort to prevent civil war.

Great idea

There must be a real good solution to prevent that unfortunately Prayut is a kind of male version of Yingluck and won't be able to do it.

He could try to find someone smart and resign....Or he could ask the royal institutions "I have complete failed, please help repairing the country"

Or he could ask the royal institutions "I have complete failed, please help repairing the country"

Turning to the royal institution to help restore the democratic constitutional monarchy sounds like a good idea.

[tbthailand]

My wish for the PM is a better reputation for the part of the country he comes from.

Isaan is just fine and doesn't need the BKK hiso looking down their noses at it.

[sjaak327]

I wasn't going to comment on this particular thread. But somehow I cannot resist.

Ok uncle dipshit, give us democracy now

[losgrad]

Will the elite in this country ever accept the results of a democratically elected government?

Do the elites really want equal treatment under the law?

Is it possible to create a single system of laws, where values are not assigned through 'corruption' ?

Will the poor accept the inequality of those with greater "values?"

Is equality realistic?

[lvr181]

"Democracy will never die from Thailand because I am a democratic soldier but I stay in power because I want democracy to survive” - General Prayuth Chan-O-Cha"

This quote on democracy seems to be an oxymoron? There is NO democracy while he (or any other military leader) continues to take and stay in power (whatever the excuse)! Why is it that no one seems to learn from Singapore, who have achieved so much in so short a time without continual military intervention? Is it because the "establishment" does not want to lose their privileged positions? And the propaganda machine tells the ordinary Thai citizen this continuous suspension is done for your benefit? Really?

[BuriramDevelopers]

Just in time to blame another, for the ruins there will be left economically i guess

[Aussieroaming]

Let's have a democracy where we can't speak out, can't have a contrary political view and one were we can't elect our own representatives.

[simon43]

The world will celebrate 2016, Thailand 1816...Prayut taking Thailand back to the dark ages

And there was I thinking that Thailand was years ahead of everyone else, 543 years to be exact.

[Sirbergan]

Easily done. Use powers you have granted yourself to reinstate the 1997 constitution with effect from today, lift the ban on political campaigning and freedom of assembly, call an election for 6 weeks time (17 January), . Accept and abide by the result, however much you may dislike it. Any disputes, decisions and disagreements about the election to be handled by the courts, with no interference.

Sorted, by 19 January you will have your wish - three weeks into the new year!

And 2017 we have the first demonstrations because the new Shinawatra government is extreme corrupt.

2018 the first shootings on the demonstrators and the first tear gas. Summer 2018 Thailand is on the brink to civil war. Autumn 2018 there is a coup as last resort to prevent civil war.

Great idea

There must be a real good solution to prevent that unfortunately Prayut is a kind of male version of Yingluck and won't be able to do it.

He could try to find someone smart and resign....Or he could ask the royal institutions "I have complete failed, please help repairing the country"

the real good solution is a simple one - having a solid constitution that prevents elected governments from abusing power that then causes unrest and eventually involves the military having to step in to keep the peace, the key is having a properly written constitution that cannot be changed without either a referendum of the people or a 2/3 majority in both houses and even having some critical important single aspects of the constitution that """"must"""" go to the people to change

when Thaksin/PTP couldn't find a way to achieve their abusive goals because the constitution prevented it they then set about changing the constitution which as it happens was relatively easy to do - that is where the problem is, if the rules don't allow us to abuse power then we will change the rules - the typical mentality "we are the government we will do what we want" this is fundamentally wrong and flawed - it is the peoples constitution and only they can approve certain critical amendments

a fine example is the complexity and difficulty involved in getting amendments to the US and Australian constitution - it is almost impossible and that is how it should be

That's the flaw in your thinking right there. They never had to step in, all they had to do was to stop sitting on the fence and instead restore order by aiding the government in controlling the situation. We were never anywhere near on the brink of a civil war or a situation that was running completely out of control. They chose to step in (just like they chose to do nothing during the unrest). They never had to.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Sirbergan

[smedly]

Easily done. Use powers you have granted yourself to reinstate the 1997 constitution with effect from today, lift the ban on political campaigning and freedom of assembly, call an election for 6 weeks time (17 January), . Accept and abide by the result, however much you may dislike it. Any disputes, decisions and disagreements about the election to be handled by the courts, with no interference.

Sorted, by 19 January you will have your wish - three weeks into the new year!

And 2017 we have the first demonstrations because the new Shinawatra government is extreme corrupt.

2018 the first shootings on the demonstrators and the first tear gas. Summer 2018 Thailand is on the brink to civil war. Autumn 2018 there is a coup as last resort to prevent civil war.

Great idea

There must be a real good solution to prevent that unfortunately Prayut is a kind of male version of Yingluck and won't be able to do it.

He could try to find someone smart and resign....Or he could ask the royal institutions "I have complete failed, please help repairing the country"

the real good solution is a simple one - having a solid constitution that prevents elected governments from abusing power that then causes unrest and eventually involves the military having to step in to keep the peace, the key is having a properly written constitution that cannot be changed without either a referendum of the people or a 2/3 majority in both houses and even having some critical important single aspects of the constitution that """"must"""" go to the people to change

when Thaksin/PTP couldn't find a way to achieve their abusive goals because the constitution prevented it they then set about changing the constitution which as it happens was relatively easy to do - that is where the problem is, if the rules don't allow us to abuse power then we will change the rules - the typical mentality "we are the government we will do what we want" this is fundamentally wrong and flawed - it is the peoples constitution and only they can approve certain critical amendments

a fine example is the complexity and difficulty involved in getting amendments to the US and Australian constitution - it is almost impossible and that is how it should be

That's the flaw in your thinking right there. They never had to step in, all they had to do was to stop sitting on the fence and instead restore order by aiding the government in controlling the situation. We were never anywhere near on the brink of a civil war or a situation that was running completely out of control. They chose to step in (just like they chose to do nothing during the unrest). They never had to.

wrong, restoring order would not have got rid of the faulty system that caused the problem in the first place, PTP had to go and reforms made before any election could take place - exactly the process we are in now, where we differ in opinion is whether or not the outcome of the process will for the first time in Thai history "stop the rot" - the endless cycle of government abuse and failure, one thing I do know is that something had to change, the question remains - will they get it right this time - who knows ? I don't and neither does anyone posting here (some think they do lol)

[MZurf]

Easily done. Use powers you have granted yourself to reinstate the 1997 constitution with effect from today, lift the ban on political campaigning and freedom of assembly, call an election for 6 weeks time (17 January), . Accept and abide by the result, however much you may dislike it. Any disputes, decisions and disagreements about the election to be handled by the courts, with no interference.

Sorted, by 19 January you will have your wish - three weeks into the new year!

And 2017 we have the first demonstrations because the new Shinawatra government is extreme corrupt.
2018 the first shootings on the demonstrators and the first tear gas. Summer 2018 Thailand is on the brink to civil war. Autumn 2018 there is a coup as last resort to prevent civil war.

Great idea

There must be a real good solution to prevent that unfortunately Prayut is a kind of male version of Yingluck and won't be able to do it.
He could try to find someone smart and resign....Or he could ask the royal institutions "I have complete failed, please help repairing the country"

the real good solution is a simple one - having a solid constitution that prevents elected governments from abusing power that then causes unrest and eventually involves the military having to step in to keep the peace, the key is having a properly written constitution that cannot be changed without either a referendum of the people or a 2/3 majority in both houses and even having some critical important single aspects of the constitution that """"must"""" go to the people to change

when Thaksin/PTP couldn't find a way to achieve their abusive goals because the constitution prevented it they then set about changing the constitution which as it happens was relatively easy to do - that is where the problem is, if the rules don't allow us to abuse power then we will change the rules - the typical mentality "we are the government we will do what we want" this is fundamentally wrong and flawed - it is the peoples constitution and only they can approve certain critical amendments

a fine example is the complexity and difficulty involved in getting amendments to the US and Australian constitution - it is almost impossible and that is how it should be

That's the flaw in your thinking right there. They never had to step in, all they had to do was to stop sitting on the fence and instead restore order by aiding the government in controlling the situation. We were never anywhere near on the brink of a civil war or a situation that was running completely out of control. They chose to step in (just like they chose to do nothing during the unrest). They never had to.

wrong, restoring order would not have got rid of the faulty system that caused the problem in the first place, PTP had to go and reforms made before any election could take place - exactly the process we are in now, where we differ in opinion is whether or not the outcome of the process will for the first time in Thai history "stop the rot" - the endless cycle of government abuse and failure, one thing I do know is that something had to change, the question remains - will they get it right this time - who knows ? I don't and neither does anyone posting here (some think they do lol)

Despite all the evidence to the contrary you still believe that the junta actually want to reform the system in a way that is for the good of the people/nation?
You must be a very, very optimistic guy. Nothing wrong with that though, I just don't share your optimism.

[mrrizzla]

The past 19 coups have fixed nothing. "But, but, this one is different, they are 'good people'".

Yep. That is certainly being shown right now eh?

[JAG]

the real good solution is a simple one - having a solid constitution that prevents elected governments from abusing power that then causes unrest and eventually involves the military having to step in to keep the peace, the key is having a properly written constitution that cannot be changed without either a referendum of the people or a 2/3 majority in both houses and even having some critical important single aspects of the constitution that """"must"""" go to the people to change

when Thaksin/PTP couldn't find a way to achieve their abusive goals because the constitution prevented it they then set about changing the constitution which as it happens was relatively easy to do - that is where the problem is, if the rules don't allow us to abuse power then we will change the rules - the typical mentality "we are the government we will do what we want" this is fundamentally wrong and flawed - it is the peoples constitution and only they can approve certain critical amendments

a fine example is the complexity and difficulty involved in getting amendments to the US and Australian constitution - it is almost impossible and that is how it should be

That's the flaw in your thinking right there. They never had to step in, all they had to do was to stop sitting on the fence and instead restore order by aiding the government in controlling the situation. We were never anywhere near on the brink of a civil war or a situation that was running completely out of control. They chose to step in (just like they chose to do nothing during the unrest). They never had to.

wrong, restoring order would not have got rid of the faulty system that caused the problem in the first place, PTP had to go and reforms made before any election could take place - exactly the process we are in now, where we differ in opinion is whether or not the outcome of the process will for the first time in Thai history "stop the rot" - the endless cycle of government abuse and failure, one thing I do know is that something had to change, the question remains - will they get it right this time - who knows ? I don't and neither does anyone posting here (some think they do lol)

"PTP had to go". Who are you to decide that a PTP (a Thai political party) "has to go"?

Who are the army or their backers to decide that PTP "has to go"

The PTP government, elected according to the constitution, in elections even their opposing party (The Democrats) accepted as free and fair, submitted themselves, in a wholly constitutional manner, to a general election, which would have allowed the Thai electorate to choose whether or not they should "go".

That election was trashed by a vocal minority, who whilst claiming to be a legitimate opposition, were not prepared to participate in an election, and were prepared to use violence to prevent it. Sirbergan is absolutely right, they could have ensured that the constitutional democratic process was followed by getting off the fence and ensuring that the election went ahead. Instead they chose to stage a coup, and install themselves in power, where they evidently intend to remain.

The "faulty system" is that the Thai military and those who they serve/answer to cannot and will not accept the will of the people, and are determined to deny them the right to select their own government. You obviously feel the same.

[smedly]

the real good solution is a simple one - having a solid constitution that prevents elected governments from abusing power that then causes unrest and eventually involves the military having to step in to keep the peace, the key is having a properly written constitution that cannot be changed without either a referendum of the people or a 2/3 majority in both houses and even having some critical important single aspects of the constitution that """"must"""" go to the people to change

when Thaksin/PTP couldn't find a way to achieve their abusive goals because the constitution prevented it they then set about changing the constitution which as it happens was relatively easy to do - that is where the problem is, if the rules don't allow us to abuse power then we will change the rules - the typical mentality "we are the government we will do what we want" this is fundamentally wrong and flawed - it is the peoples constitution and only they can approve certain critical amendments

a fine example is the complexity and difficulty involved in getting amendments to the US and Australian constitution - it is almost impossible and that is how it should be

That's the flaw in your thinking right there. They never had to step in, all they had to do was to stop sitting on the fence and instead restore order by aiding the government in controlling the situation. We were never anywhere near on the brink of a civil war or a situation that was running completely out of control. They chose to step in (just like they chose to do nothing during the unrest). They never had to.

wrong, restoring order would not have got rid of the faulty system that caused the problem in the first place, PTP had to go and reforms made before any election could take place - exactly the process we are in now, where we differ in opinion is whether or not the outcome of the process will for the first time in Thai history "stop the rot" - the endless cycle of government abuse and failure, one thing I do know is that something had to change, the question remains - will they get it right this time - who knows ? I don't and neither does anyone posting here (some think they do lol)

"PTP had to go". Who are you to decide that a PTP (a Thai political party) "has to go"?

Who are the army or their backers to decide that PTP "has to go"

The PTP government, elected according to the constitution, in elections even their opposing party (The Democrats) accepted as free and fair, submitted themselves, in a wholly constitutional manner, to a general election, which would have allowed the Thai electorate to choose whether or not they should "go".

That election was trashed by a vocal minority, who whilst claiming to be a legitimate opposition, were not prepared to participate in an election, and were prepared to use violence to prevent it. Sirbergan is absolutely right, they could have ensured that the constitutional democratic process was followed by getting off the fence and ensuring that the election went ahead. Instead they chose to stage a coup, and install themselves in power, where they evidently intend to remain.

The "faulty system" is that the Thai military and those who they serve/answer to cannot and will not accept the will of the people, and are determined to deny them the right to select their own government. You obviously feel the same.

The people decided PTP had to go

PTP were elected under a flawed and faulty system that allowed them to abuse in so many ways it was shocking

It is fortunate That Thailand has a safety valve called the army when things get out of hand, what do you think would have happened if the army had not stepped in when they did - and don't lecture about elections and other nonsense that you keep repeating, there was no point in holding elections until the system is repaired

How does the system get repaired, well if you believe in the current process then it is underway, I don't know the outcome and neither does anyone here

I don't agree with some of the things the current government are doing but I am willing to put up with it for now if the end result is a good one

I do not have an affiliation to any particular faction here, I see it as I see it unlike some posters here who are very obviously more involved

[JAG]

the real good solution is a simple one - having a solid constitution that prevents elected governments from abusing power that then causes unrest and eventually involves the military having to step in to keep the peace, the key is having a properly written constitution that cannot be changed without either a referendum of the people or a 2/3 majority in both houses and even having some critical important single aspects of the constitution that """"must"""" go to the people to change

when Thaksin/PTP couldn't find a way to achieve their abusive goals because the constitution prevented it they then set about changing the constitution which as it happens was relatively easy to do - that is where the problem is, if the rules don't allow us to abuse power then we will change the rules - the typical mentality "we are the government we will do what we want" this is fundamentally wrong and flawed - it is the peoples constitution and only they can approve certain critical amendments

a fine example is the complexity and difficulty involved in getting amendments to the US and Australian constitution - it is almost impossible and that is how it should be

That's the flaw in your thinking right there. They never had to step in, all they had to do was to stop sitting on the fence and instead restore order by aiding the government in controlling the situation. We were never anywhere near on the brink of a civil war or a situation that was running completely out of control. They chose to step in (just like they chose to do nothing during the unrest). They never had to.

wrong, restoring order would not have got rid of the faulty system that caused the problem in the first place, PTP had to go and reforms made before any election could take place - exactly the process we are in now, where we differ in opinion is whether or not the outcome of the process will for the first time in Thai history "stop the rot" - the endless cycle of government abuse and failure, one thing I do know is that something had to change, the question remains - will they get it right this time - who knows ? I don't and neither does anyone posting here (some think they do lol)

"PTP had to go". Who are you to decide that a PTP (a Thai political party) "has to go"?

Who are the army or their backers to decide that PTP "has to go"

The PTP government, elected according to the constitution, in elections even their opposing party (The Democrats) accepted as free and fair, submitted themselves, in a wholly constitutional manner, to a general election, which would have allowed the Thai electorate to choose whether or not they should "go".

That election was trashed by a vocal minority, who whilst claiming to be a legitimate opposition, were not prepared to participate in an election, and were prepared to use violence to prevent it. Sirbergan is absolutely right, they could have ensured that the constitutional democratic process was followed by getting off the fence and ensuring that the election went ahead. Instead they chose to stage a coup, and install themselves in power, where they evidently intend to remain.

The "faulty system" is that the Thai military and those who they serve/answer to cannot and will not accept the will of the people, and are determined to deny them the right to select their own government. You obviously feel the same.

The people decided PTP had to go

PTP were elected under a flawed and faulty system that allowed them to abuse in so many ways it was shocking

It is fortunate That Thailand has a safety valve called the army when things get out of hand, what do you think would have happened if the army had not stepped in when they did - and don't lecture about elections and other nonsense that you keep repeating, there was no point in holding elections until the system is repaired

How does the system get repaired, well if you believe in the current process then it is underway, I don't know the outcome and neither does anyone here

I don't agree with some of the things the current government are doing but I am willing to put up with it for now if the end result is a good one

I do not have an affiliation to any particular faction here, I see it as I see it unlike some posters here who are very obviously more involved

The people did not decide PTP had "to go", they were denied the right to make a decision on the future of the government. That right continues to be denied.

The system was not broken until the army allowed it to be broken by standing by idly whilst the constitutional electoral process was destroyed by Suthep's minority movement. Their reaction to the chaos which they allowed, some would say were complicit in, was to stage a coup.

Of course I recognize that you may define " broken" as likely to result in a government of which you do not approve.

As for lecturing, it is you who rule that the system is broken, and you who advocate a solution which does not give the people the right to choose. If that is not prescriptive lecturing then I don't know what is; but of course you don't support any particular faction here!

Edited December 14, 2015 by JAG