Thai schools ordered to improve scrutiny of foreign teachers after Walbran arrest

[arrowsdawdle]

How about someone at the ministry of education, in their crisp army type uniforms, get iff their fat ass and do a background check before giving them a teacher's license?

Ah no, ministry not understand, no problem at our school.

[arrowsdawdle]

Should also be checking on their qualifications, or lack of. Anyone teaching without the required degree should be immediately deported, teaching is meant to be a vocation and not a licence for nightlife lovers to stay here.

License teacher want too much money, cheap guy okay no problem.

[NCC1701A]

"Fairfax Media revealed last week that a simple Google search would have found that 59-year-old Walbran raped and sexually molested children as young as eight on the Indonesian island of Lombok over a nine-year period."

was it on facebook? i no have friends on google.

[optad]

Background checks are expensive and have differing levels of difficulty in getting them from each country. An australia. State and federal is about $60.

Rubbish. Takes 15 minutes online and 10 workings days to be processed regardless of the jurisdiction. The federal auth just legitimizes the states authority. You were right about the 60 dollars.

More importantly, the CRB can be sent to the registered authority to ensure integrity of process. Every teacher would apply and nominate Krusapa who could then give the school the nod if everything is A OK. Then off you go to labour ministry for the WP, and then immigration for the non-b.

Tweak the above if you like but it can be done easily. Straight swap for the syphilis test and your even.

Too many parties involved just cannot be bothered.

I am aware of the difference between those working in international schools [and those providing increased opportunities for language fluency generally but the argument does not have to demean the importance of creating safe environs for children. That is what it is about.

Edited December 14, 2015 by optad

[optad]

Addendum to the above.

In Australia state bodies will not process for applicants overseas. The federal police will.

It is 42.00 AUD and 15 workings day directly to the government agency.

http://www.afp.gov.au/what-we-do/police-checks/national-police-checks

Krusapa might need to hire some talented staff but this is not tat hard. Actually just standard professional practice.

[Inn Between]

the problem, as I see it, is that these schools simply cannot undertake background checks competently on English language websites.

It's OK, they will ask the foreign teachers to help them.

Or ask some NGO to do it for free. There must be at least a few of them dedicated to protecting children that would be happy to help.

[thailand49]

Solving the problem has to start somewhere! If requiring teaching credentials is too much to ask and if they did the only applicants would only want to work in International schools might be true and might already be happening?

But as long as the method Thais officials are using is the only requirement is anyone who speaks English can teach you are going to have problems like what is going on today. You get a bunch of people who aren't serious just want to supplement their income so the rest of the time they are only concern about the night life and young girls in High School and lower level Universities. Of course I speak in general like everyone else.

Thailand, has joined the Asean community and part of the requirement is they promised to advance the English language in their schools. Doing so means not going through the motion and hiring a bunch of half ass people to do the job so they can save money! Another suggestion is requiring all Thai future teachers, old, especially the Principals to learn English themselves so down the road they can teach it themselves. Give these future and old teacher some incentive (money) to learn so they can help themselves.

[optad]

I don't care if there is a witch hunt. These deviates ruin young lives and you think the should be protected?

Gaol them, make them the pariahs they are.

But whatever you do protect the children.

I guess you dont really know what a witch hunt means, I'll give you a hint, it means innocent people are accused and persecuted.

As opposed to innocent children having their lives destroyed because there is no background check on those who teach them.

Your priorities seem out of order. You seem more interested in protecting these predatory teachers than the children.

Why is that?

Ok, I'll bite.

What background checks do you want to do?

What do you think is the principle reason for most people coming to Thailand?

Is it to interfere with children or do you think there might be other reasons?

Bizarre the barriers people put up to what amounts to normal professional standards in most countries.

CBC, or a criminal background check from a national authority pertinent to child welfare. Nothing to do with DUIs or any other reason to get defensive. And yes those recruitment agencies should be part of the process.

Reasons for coming to Thailand are personal and not relevant if you meet basic standards and workplace requirements.

Why are these things problematic?

[Bernard Flint]

If Thailand is serious about education and protecting their greatest resource they first need to required the applicant (teachers) to have real credentials in teaching

A non-starter suggestion. No licenced teacher would consider teaching in Thailand, (other than at 'real' international schools), because the salaries and overall employment packages are so lousy.

Very true

Many teachers are getting tefl to stay here and are useless at teaching, i have seen them

[optad]

Solving the problem has to start somewhere! If requiring teaching credentials is too much to ask and if they did the only applicants would only want to work in International schools might be true and might already be happening?

But as long as the method Thais officials are using is the only requirement is anyone who speaks English can teach you are going to have problems like what is going on today. You get a bunch of people who aren't serious just want to supplement their income so the rest of the time they are only concern about the night life and young girls in High School and lower level Universities. Of course I speak in general like everyone else.

Thailand, has joined the Asean community and part of the requirement is they promised to advance the English language in their schools. Doing so means not going through the motion and hiring a bunch of half ass people to do the job so they can save money! Another suggestion is requiring all Thai future teachers, old, especially the Principals to learn English themselves so down the road they can teach it themselves. Give these future and old teacher some incentive (money) to learn so they can help themselves.

I don't think you are addressing the issue. It is not about "teaching credentials" in home country it is about not having any perpetrators against children working here simply because children are more vulnerable oversea post conviction.

On the issue of teaching credentials. Some uninformed comment has been made about nightlife and alternate reasons for 'being' in Thailand. Shows bias and i suspect some bar gossip value. In my experience, some of the best instructors are the ones who are not formally recognized, did not have all the stamps but found what they were good at or the profession found them, latterly. Also the sheer demand and absolute need for language tuition in Thailand is not going too be met by teachers from education backgrounds anyhow.

An industry where all is possible is possible just need to have a CBC and better practice all around.

[samsensam]

Two points:

1. Farang teachers have made the news dozens of times re this matter over many years and various authorities have quickly said there backgrounds etc., should be checked. Why is it still not happening?

2. Hope Thai teacher candidates are also checked re the same subject. You can hear / read about plenty of stories of Thai teachers who also touch / molest / rape Thai students.

The education ministry needs to be dismantled totally and re-birthed with completely different objectives, principles, and values. And hopefully 90% of the staff would be new and highly capable.

I agree with No. 1 that should happen all the time for ALL teachers.

No. 2 the answer is 'I a Thai' end of discussion

As for 90% of current teachers being inadequate, that is an insult to many foreign teachers (and indeed Thai teachers) that are hard working and competent.

The Thai Education system currently is a disgrace, it has the worst English literacy in ASEAN countries. Yet the current PM wants English to be taken over and taught by Thai teachers. Can't figure that one - oh yes I can, TIT.

The Education hierarchy and ground level school operational managers, are grossly incompetent. They change their minds every day on ciriculum direction, provide inadequate material for teachers to prepare lessons and testing papers. There is no such thing as failing, irrespective of the level of effort of the student. That is just some of the issues.

Your statement is ill informed.

agree in general however you cant deny there are an awful lot of unqualified, inexperienced and to be honest shocking foreign teachers working here. people who would not get within a mile of a classroom in their home country for very good reasons.

the solution lies with the education ministry and immigration getting their act together and operating in a professional and accountable way. this though will never happen.

[wow64]

Too many kiddie fiddlers here teaching.. Spoilt it for the rest of you..

They don't need foreign teachers unless they are a native speaker can read and write Thai and have a teachers degree.

Education is so expensive here, so called teachers with half assed qualifications should not be teaching children.. It's stealing their future.

Edited December 15, 2015 by wow64

[scorecard]

Two points:

1. Farang teachers have made the news dozens of times re this matter over many years and various authorities have quickly said there backgrounds etc., should be checked. Why is it still not happening?

2. Hope Thai teacher candidates are also checked re the same subject. You can hear / read about plenty of stories of Thai teachers who also touch / molest / rape Thai students.

The education ministry needs to be dismantled totally and re-birthed with completely different objectives, principles, and values. And hopefully 90% of the staff would be new and highly capable.

I agree with No. 1 that should happen all the time for ALL teachers.

No. 2 the answer is 'I a Thai' end of discussion

As for 90% of current teachers being inadequate, that is an insult to many foreign teachers (and indeed Thai teachers) that are hard working and competent.

The Thai Education system currently is a disgrace, it has the worst English literacy in ASEAN countries. Yet the current PM wants English to be taken over and taught by Thai teachers. Can't figure that one - oh yes I can, TIT.

The Education hierarchy and ground level school operational managers, are grossly incompetent. They change their minds every day on ciriculum direction, provide inadequate material for teachers to prepare lessons and testing papers. There is no such thing as failing, irrespective of the level of effort of the student. That is just some of the issues.

Your statement is ill informed.

I specifically mentioned total reform of the actual ministry and that's exactly what i meant.

I have no hesitation to agree there are some good Thai and Foreign teachers but there are also lots of Thai kids who are subjected to the whims, lack of capability, lack of professionalism, lack of motivation, etc., of some teachers.

[JAG]

The existing protection, a Criminal Record Bureau check (or whatever is your national equivalent) is entirely adequate.It just needs to be carried out. That is entirely up to the Thais.

That this fellow Walbran managed to obtain a new passport and leave Australia without any questions being asked is surely a fault of the Australian system rather than the Thai system?

On the wider subject which has been raised of the competence and qualifications of TEFL teachers, the Thai Ministry of Education lays down specific requirements, primarily a degree and a Teaching English as a Foreign Language qualification. Both are to be issued by recognised institutions, and both have to be capable of being verified. If they were then the fakes would be rapidly weeded out. TEFL teachers are employed, or should be, for just that - not as form teachers, or to teach other subjects in English. The proliferation of "English Programmes" in recent years, and establishments frankly masquerading as "international schools" has I feel led to some being misemployed doing just that.. If you are going to teach a variety of subjects then there is a valid argument for having a full teaching qualification, with the study and training that brings. If you are purely teaching EFL, as a supplement to the Thai curriculum, then the qualifications the system demands are sufficient. As for competence, well the schools should weed out the incompetent.

As for motivation, well that probably varies widely, as with any occupation. I do suspect that anyone attempting to fund a sexpat barhopping lifestyle on the salary offered would be dissapointed

[optad]

The existing protection, a Criminal Record Bureau check (or whatever is your national equivalent) is entirely adequate.It just needs to be carried out. That is entirely up to the Thais.

That this fellow Walbran managed to obtain a new passport and leave Australia without any questions being asked is surely a fault of the Australian system rather than the Thai system?

On the wider subject which has been raised of the competence and qualifications of TEFL teachers, the Thai Ministry of Education lays down specific requirements, primarily a degree and a Teaching English as a Foreign Language qualification. Both are to be issued by recognised institutions, and both have to be capable of being verified. If they were then the fakes would be rapidly weeded out. TEFL teachers are employed, or should be, for just that - not as form teachers, or to teach other subjects in English. The proliferation of "English Programmes" in recent years, and establishments frankly masquerading as "international schools" has I feel led to some being misemployed doing just that.. If you are going to teach a variety of subjects then there is a valid argument for having a full teaching qualification, with the study and training that brings. If you are purely teaching EFL, as a supplement to the Thai curriculum, then the qualifications the system demands are sufficient. As for competence, well the schools should weed out the incompetent.

As for motivation, well that probably varies widely, as with any occupation. I do suspect that anyone attempting to fund a sexpat barhopping lifestyle on the salary offered would be dissapointed

Great post.

I concur but would add that the CBC be done such that a central regulatory authority in Thailand collects or rather receives the CRB/CBC directly and then on-sends the okay to the school or labour office. There will be some stuff in those reports that is not pertinent to that individual working with children occasionally and should not prejudice the application.

Thailand does need fluency facilitators or language teachers to meet student needs and currently it is trying to do that. Processes could always be sharpened. CRB/CBC need to be mandatory and frankly not difficult. Actually, i cannot see how this issue goes away. Lots of other good stuff there.

Re Waldran. Not sure but as a duel citizen and also being requested to appear in front of the sex offenders committee i think he worked out his options and got to NZ. Yep he slipped through because he wanted to get to Asia. Scary huh. They really should tag or ankle bracelet these guys. It can be done right and may just stop this incidence arising again.

Edited December 15, 2015 by optad

[thailand49]

Solving the problem has to start somewhere! If requiring teaching credentials is too much to ask and if they did the only applicants would only want to work in International schools might be true and might already be happening?

But as long as the method Thais officials are using is the only requirement is anyone who speaks English can teach you are going to have problems like what is going on today. You get a bunch of people who aren't serious just want to supplement their income so the rest of the time they are only concern about the night life and young girls in High School and lower level Universities. Of course I speak in general like everyone else.

Thailand, has joined the Asean community and part of the requirement is they promised to advance the English language in their schools. Doing so means not going through the motion and hiring a bunch of half ass people to do the job so they can save money! Another suggestion is requiring all Thai future teachers, old, especially the Principals to learn English themselves so down the road they can teach it themselves. Give these future and old teacher some incentive (money) to learn so they can help themselves.

I don't think you are addressing the issue. It is not about "teaching credentials" in home country it is about not having any perpetrators against children working here simply because children are more vulnerable oversea post conviction.

On the issue of teaching credentials. Some uninformed comment has been made about nightlife and alternate reasons for 'being' in Thailand. Shows bias and i suspect some bar gossip value. In my experience, some of the best instructors are the ones who are not formally recognized, did not have all the stamps but found what they were good at or the profession found them, latterly. Also the sheer demand and absolute need for language tuition in Thailand is not going too be met by teachers from education backgrounds anyhow.

An industry where all is possible is possible just need to have a CBC and better practice all around.

Your point is well taken, but I guess you miss the part where I said we are talking in general which is what you are doing I assume. In Pattaya I've seen first hand and know a bunch that has no business teaching English at all. Sure there are people who do not have the credentials and do a better job than maybe those that have but should we just throw all standards because of it, And just go back to the wild west? Let's apply your theory to other profession and not have credential for Doctors, etc? What is or was your profession would you prefer anyone just come and do your job? What is the reason we all go to school for? There is got to be some standard. If they are so good go get the credential/license get rightfully pay for you hard work do the right thing?

The standard in which Thailand wants regarding English in the problem schools is just a joke. I live here have a son, and his friends from local schools can't even speak a lick of English! The local schools hires anyone that can obtain a certificate, in Pattaya they are a dime a dozen two week course, this process is a injustice to the Thai kids. Then take that process of hiring you have this type of story!

Yes, this story is about perpetrators on children if Thailand had required some of the item people are talking about here would you think this guy would have been teaching?

Edited December 15, 2015 by thailand49

[optad]

Solving the problem has to start somewhere! If requiring teaching credentials is too much to ask and if they did the only applicants would only want to work in International schools might be true and might already be happening?

But as long as the method Thais officials are using is the only requirement is anyone who speaks English can teach you are going to have problems like what is going on today. You get a bunch of people who aren't serious just want to supplement their income so the rest of the time they are only concern about the night life and young girls in High School and lower level Universities. Of course I speak in general like everyone else.

Thailand, has joined the Asean community and part of the requirement is they promised to advance the English language in their schools. Doing so means not going through the motion and hiring a bunch of half ass people to do the job so they can save money! Another suggestion is requiring all Thai future teachers, old, especially the Principals to learn English themselves so down the road they can teach it themselves. Give these future and old teacher some incentive (money) to learn so they can help themselves.

I don't think you are addressing the issue. It is not about "teaching credentials" in home country it is about not having any perpetrators against children working here simply because children are more vulnerable oversea post conviction.

On the issue of teaching credentials. Some uninformed comment has been made about nightlife and alternate reasons for 'being' in Thailand. Shows bias and i suspect some bar gossip value. In my experience, some of the best instructors are the ones who are not formally recognized, did not have all the stamps but found what they were good at or the profession found them, latterly. Also the sheer demand and absolute need for language tuition in Thailand is not going too be met by teachers from education backgrounds anyhow.

An industry where all is possible is possible just need to have a CBC and better practice all around.

Your point is well taken, but I guess you miss the part where I said we are talking in general which is what you are doing I assume. In Pattaya I've seen first hand and know a bunch that has no business teaching English at all. Sure there are people who do not have the credentials and do a better job than maybe those that have but should we just throw all standards because of it, And just go back to the wild west? Let's apply your theory to other profession and not have credential for Doctors, etc? What is or was your profession would you prefer anyone just come and do your job? What is the reason we all go to school for? There is got to be some standard. If they are so good go get the credential/license get rightfully pay for you hard work do the right thing?

The standard in which Thailand wants regarding English in the problem schools is just a joke. I live here have a son, and his friends from local schools can't even speak a lick of English! The local schools hires anyone that can obtain a certificate, in Pattaya they are a dime a dozen two week course, this process is a injustice to the Thai kids. Then take that process of hiring you have this type of story!

Yes, this story is about perpetrators on children if Thailand had required some of the item people are talking about here would you think this guy would have been teaching?

You are a wizened observer, and from what i can garner, balanced.

There might be a few things you are not aware of, so i will touch on those but will not even try to give a comprehensive answer here to the problem you present. There is not one.

Police-check just should be axiomatic. I am not talking about that again here. But these do not make the entire character picture required to be a good role model for your son, nor advance his peers SLA, second language acquisition. Nor will they inform the school what the applicant is like in the classroom week one and then again week forty one.

There are standards but these will varying according to governance. As such the MOE provide the minimal qualifications required to teach in Thailand. A degree i think it is, but as we all know, this is not a teaching tool nor designed to be one and as such is just a ticket to apply. There has been talk of the teacher's license in this thread however whilst it exists it appears to me to have been confused with the Thai culture appreciation certificate. Both at some point are mandatory in a longer career sense only the Thai teaching license impossible to earn. Something like 95% failure rate because of questions and language issues. Just silly. My point raising that is that the MOE have tried to augment professional standards which can be uniformly applied but they got it so very wrong. Their attempt was right though. Certification just mad. What to do about thet is really where you question goes and i am not sure if i can answer that in this installment. Perhaps some-else might add value too

ASEAN however has put pressure on where there was always too much lassitude for Thailand. Classroom performance and productive language results by any measure you wish to use. You used cannot cough a lick, well that is a starting measure and how far Thailand is behind. Thailand is one of the weakest members of this ASEAN group in SL, and in this case English. A major problem which will have problems for generations to come. Put this way, i was in HK last month for a university thing, all the locals were mostly conversant and on their way to fluency if not there already. Their system is incredibly reactive to needs to part of the success but also a problem for those left behind. another story.

Govt schools are compounded by the fact that Thai teachers are not comprehensive of basic English, fearful of being revealed, will just issue work sheets, cannot even chalk and talk, nor communicate in English anyhow it is a waste of time for all concerned. There isn't even a directed curriculum to help either party let alone an assessment system to help student and teacher reflect upon where they travel on a pathway.

Getting foreign language facilitators is another problem. International schools will pay around 110 -180 B/pcm for teachers and can be selective at those prices. More for leadership positions. It includes a host of benefits usually so those schools are good for X years and will get good teachers too. Govt schools however, start at 30 and may go to 45/50 and it is a grind for most teachers month to month. And then each year they are ticked over with visa issue et al. The rub here is these guys are needed. Conversational English and grammar structures are essential to literacy and even spoken communicative sentencing. Better teachers will get taken quickly but there will always be a 'down on his heel' types who will do more damage than good. It really beggars stronger administrative attention at the school level to fix that locally. I will think about mechanisms which may over arch the school provisions but they are not easy to surmount given the egos involved. This will revolve around achievable standards, very easily attainable benchmarks that can be consistently applied and achieved by student and teacher alike.

Thai students too need to get with a responsibility for a self-learning ethos too. That is going to sound crazy but really it is the only way to start bridging the gap and get the onus totally off teachers and become shared or a partnership. Thai students have a poor attitude to SLA and it is possibly the most costly factor individually, but also for your son as it affects the whole group dynamics. It is a total cancer in some schools and it must be dealt with but must be a concerted campaign form BKK. THREE media blitz to improve student attitude/desire to learning and taking personal responsibility for achievement. This will force everyone to perform better too.

I could go on but.... at the end of the day, all educators will tell the best students are the one who have the calmest and most stimulating home environments. Loving parents who have consistency in questioning and habits and all around respect. That is the starting point for any child.

Your last point re would Waldran and reaching .. i am not sure i understand the question. From all reports he was effective as a imparter of knowledge but that is not really the deal is it. Don't know.

Okay all the best with your boy,

[smotherb]

the problem, as I see it, is that these schools simply cannot undertake background checks competently on English language websites.

Ah, you better watch out, some numbnut will probably accuse you of Thai bashing--see my posts in another forum on this subject a few days ago which drew criticism when I stated that Thais have poor English proficiency which may hamper the checking of teachers' credentials.

Which other forum?

Try post #10 Posted 2015-12-10 09:35:15 in http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/877226-criminal-checks-on-sicko-teachers-in-thailand/?p=10174699&hl

[smotherb]

the problem, as I see it, is that these schools simply cannot undertake background checks competently on English language websites.

Ah, you better watch out, some numbnut will probably accuse you of Thai bashing--see my posts in another forum on this subject a few days ago which drew criticism when I stated that Thais have poor English proficiency which may hamper the checking of teachers' credentials.

Which other forum?

Try post #10 Posted 2015-12-10 09:35:15 in http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/877226-criminal-checks-on-sicko-teachers-in-thailand/?p=10174699&hl

Find it in the thread called:

Criminal checks on sicko teachers in Thailand in Teaching in Thailand Forum

[tuanku]

Even in UK, Aus, US, some pedophiles slip through the net and end up working with kids. Does help if the school administration is aware of the possibility and is constantly on the look out for indications that child abuse might be happening in their schools. That would apply whatever the nationality of the teacher. In UK all schools have a child protection policy and in-service training in child protection is a commonplace. Works better than turning a blind eye.