Burmese soldiers arrive in Thailand for agricultural exchange program

[webfact]

Burmese soldiers arrive in Thailand for agricultural exchange program



BANGKOK, 18 December 2015 (NNT) - Myanmar has sent military troops to Thailand, as part of a bilateral military program to exchange agricultural knowledge.

Chief of the Defense Forces Gen Sommai Kaotira welcomed 13 soldiers from the neighboring country, the fifth generation of trainees in the program. For one week, the Burmese soldiers learned agricultural skills and animal husbandry at the Royal Development Projects and Security Coordination Center of the Royal Thai Armed Forces Headquarters.

The exchange program was prompted by the devastation of Cyclone Nargis in 2008, which caused the worst natural disaster of Myanmar's history. Nargis resulted in 140,000 deaths, four billion US dollars in damages, and 42 percent of food stocks destroyed.

Her Royal Highness Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn had spearheaded Thailand's relief efforts for disaster victims in Myanmar through the use of royal funds, as well as directing the military to restore crop cultivation, build schools sponsored by the royal family, and hold workshops for Burmese authorities to rebuild after the devastation.


-- NNT 2015-12-18

[Thian]

Soldiers for agriculture programs? Did i miss something?

Well i hope they teach the Thai how to grow and pick avocado's....especially picking is the problem, many times they are inedible because picked too early.

[Artisi]

Soldiers for agriculture programs? Did i miss something?

Well i hope they teach the Thai how to grow and pick avocado's....especially picking is the problem, many times they are inedible because picked too early.

No you didn't miss anything expect the reason they are here but never mind, don't let facts destroy your posting.

However, agree 100 % on the avocado issue.

[chainarong]

This indeed good to see not so long ago the Thai , Burma border was closed and the Burmese were firing rocket propelled grenades into Thai backyards,..................

[ianf]

I guess this is so that the Burmese soldiers can work on the land that the military stole from the Karen.

[rubl]

I guess this is so that the Burmese soldiers can work on the land that the military stole from the Karen.

Did the Thai military steal land from the Karen in Myanmar?

[tomacht8]

Burmese soldiers arrive in Thailand for agricultural exchange program

Are there Burmese Farmers not better suited for an agricultural exchange program???

[Misterwhisper]

And next time they are perhaps sending Burmese farmers to exchange views on military knowledge. The mind just boggles.

[phoenixdoglover]

Try to keep up, people. This is just one element of an extensive bilateral skills development program between Thailand and Myanmar.

Just last week, a team of 17 rubber farmers from the Ban Dung area travelled to Myanmar, where they will spend four weeks learning jet engine maintenance and SCUBA diving.

What I love about Thailand is that what I just wrote is within the realm of the possible.

:-)

[klauskunkel]

swords to ploughshares, how nice...

[londonthai]

it's just a code name for a secret operation about human trafficking, drug production and smuggling and money laundering.

the military is under an international pressure, including eu and us, to sort out this problems. So a new operational modes have to be introduced. Now it won't be uniformed military doing those dirty jobs, but people camouflaged as rice farmers

[Seastallion]

great time for anybody to commit murder. There's a whole bunch of convenient suspects already.

[Emster23]

Ready...... aim....... bamboo shoots!

[klauskunkel]

Burmese soldiers arrive in Thailand for agricultural exchange program

Are there Burmese Farmers not better suited for an agricultural exchange program???

Thailand's Minister for Agriculture is General Surasak Kanjanarat. He is an avid rice planter.

[djayz]

Soldiers on an "agricultural exchange"?!?!?

What's going on?

[ianf]

I guess this is so that the Burmese soldiers can work on the land that the military stole from the Karen.

Did the Thai military steal land from the Karen in Myanmar?

How needless, pointless and silly. Everyone knows what the Burmese soldiers have done to the ethnic minorities including raping and murdering children aged 5 upwards and stealing the land off their parents. The Burmans carried out some of the worst atrocities against Burmese minorities while the world watched and did nothing. The Thai border police and police have also been involved, it is reported, in crimes against the refugees along the border. No one has their hands lean in this gross affair.

[rubl]

I guess this is so that the Burmese soldiers can work on the land that the military stole from the Karen.

Did the Thai military steal land from the Karen in Myanmar?

How needless, pointless and silly. Everyone knows what the Burmese soldiers have done to the ethnic minorities including raping and murdering children aged 5 upwards and stealing the land off their parents. The Burmans carried out some of the worst atrocities against Burmese minorities while the world watched and did nothing. The Thai border police and police have also been involved, it is reported, in crimes against the refugees along the border. No one has their hands lean in this gross affair.

Ah, you mean your sentence should read

"I guess this is so that the Burmese soldiers can work on the land that the (Burmese) military stole from the Karen."

As for the rest, true the Karen have been treated badly on both sides of the border. Mind you, we also have some bad Karen involved in the drugs trade. Allegedly even the CIA was somewhat involved in the 60sh, early 70sh when Communism was a common enemy to both Thailand and Burma.

As for the topic, well with agriculture one might expect to get dirty hands

[plachon]

I guess this is so that the Burmese soldiers can work on the land that the military stole from the Karen.

Did the Thai military steal land from the Karen in Myanmar?

I don't know about their land (Burma-Thai gas pipeline anyone?) but the Thai military have been complicit in stealing the Karen's forests and wildlife for many years, through their counterparts in the Burmese junta. Big Jiew was one of the worst offenders in this regard, exchanging Burmese students arrested in Thailand after they fled for their life following the 1988 crackdown for Burmese timber concessions, much of it sourced from Karen native territory. The Karen military also got into the act to a certain extent, but were a little less rapacious than their Burmese counterparts.

[DeepInTheForest]

I guess this is so that the Burmese soldiers can work on the land that the military stole from the Karen.

Did the Thai military steal land from the Karen in Myanmar?

I don't know about their land (Burma-Thai gas pipeline anyone?) but the Thai military have been complicit in stealing the Karen's forests and wildlife for many years, through their counterparts in the Burmese junta. Big Jiew was one of the worst offenders in this regard, exchanging Burmese students arrested in Thailand after they fled for their life following the 1988 crackdown for Burmese timber concessions, much of it sourced from Karen native territory. The Karen military also got into the act to a certain extent, but were a little less rapacious than their Burmese counterparts.

Excellent post. Thanks for this, plachon. Few know the history and sociopolitical implications of the deforestation of this region. Big Jiew's real name was Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, a Thai army general and politician. He did indeed cooperate with the Burmese Army in corrupt and dodgy scams that resulted in the deforestation of large swaths of Myanmar/Burma as well as Thailand. At one point, after logging was banned in Thailand, he had an operation that exported logs to Burma, where they were stamped with a forestry stamp to disguise their origin, then re-imported to Thailand. After awhile, they did away with shipping logs across the Salween-- why bother?-- and simply brought the stamp to Thailand. The great Thai forests disappeared into the pockets of Chavalit and others involved.

And not just in Burma and Thailand, either-- he moved his operations to Cambodia after the heat got turned up. This operation involved the Khmer Rouge. Global Witness says that pursuant to a meeting between Cambodian Ag minister Tao Seng Huor and then-Deputy Prime Minister Chavalit, Cambodia agreed to export 1.1 million cubic meters of 'old felled' timber to Thailand.

"All the logs were in Khmer Rouge (KR) held territory, making verification of their existence impossible. Global Witness’ investigations, however, showed that the loggers were in fact cutting to order and paying the KR between $35-90 per m3."

This Global Witness paper makes it clear that China was also involved in the pillaging of natural resources from minority areas of Burma.

(you can open the below link in Internet Explorer or some other browser)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiEpbXp6ujJAhXEFj4KHQRLDFoQFgg-MAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.globalwitness.org%2Fdocuments%2F14710%2F03sep3%2520conflict%2520of%2520interests%252060-89.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGD2Q0tfFt29sA8DDntz_2j75QoVA&bvm=bv.110151844,d.cWw

For a good summary, look into James Fahn's 'Land on Fire: the environmental consequences of the Southeast Asian boom': http://www.amazon.com/Land-Fire-Environmental-Consequences-Southeast/dp/0813342678

For a look at the political economy of deforestation in Thailand, check out these two posts:

https://www.ncsu.edu/project/amazonia/Delang.pdf

http://dev.mtnforum.org/sites/default/files/publication/files/857.pdf

Edited December 19, 2015 by DeepInTheForest

[cracker1]

Why didn't they send Burmese Farmers on this exchange program ?

[Caveat Emptor]

Does one week's training in two complex subjects now rate them as ' experts ' ? I wonder if the Burmese military will give them a medal as their Thai counterparts would do ?

At least they were not sent here for military training as i doubt they'd learn much as over the years all I've seen and heard suggests the Thai military are into everything except actual military matters.

[jaywalker]

Did they hire pancake street vendors for translators?

[ianf]

I guess this is so that the Burmese soldiers can work on the land that the military stole from the Karen.

Did the Thai military steal land from the Karen in Myanmar?

How needless, pointless and silly. Everyone knows what the Burmese soldiers have done to the ethnic minorities including raping and murdering children aged 5 upwards and stealing the land off their parents. The Burmans carried out some of the worst atrocities against Burmese minorities while the world watched and did nothing. The Thai border police and police have also been involved, it is reported, in crimes against the refugees along the border. No one has their hands lean in this gross affair.

Ah, you mean your sentence should read

"I guess this is so that the Burmese soldiers can work on the land that the (Burmese) military stole from the Karen."

As for the rest, true the Karen have been treated badly on both sides of the border. Mind you, we also have some bad Karen involved in the drugs trade. Allegedly even the CIA was somewhat involved in the 60sh, early 70sh when Communism was a common enemy to both Thailand and Burma.

As for the topic, well with agriculture one might expect to get dirty hands

I think my original post was quite clear. Also it seems that people here do not understand the divisions between the Christian Karen and the Buddhist Karen that broke away from the struggle and sided with the Burmese military.

[billd766]

it's just a code name for a secret operation about human trafficking, drug production and smuggling and money laundering.

the military is under an international pressure, including eu and us, to sort out this problems. So a new operational modes have to be introduced. Now it won't be uniformed military doing those dirty jobs, but people camouflaged as rice farmers

Of course with your top level intelligence friends and access to all the military secrets in both countries, you must believe that it is true.

Please accept my scepticism and disbelief, which of course you can clear up easily with a touch of realism such as internet links, newspaper reports etc instead of from your fevered imagination working overtime.

[Artisi]

Seems to me that some posters need to read the original story and not pick up on the many erroneous replies and further twist the story. They should also note the main influence behind this idea and what the intent is.

[Thian]

Why didn't they send Burmese Farmers on this exchange program ?

Because they can't speak Thai language.

[Artisi]

Why didn't they send Burmese Farmers on this exchange program ?

Because they can't speak Thai language.

Minor point - but has anyone thought that many Burmese military staff may have been- maybe still are farmers

and more than qualified to be sent on such a programme.

NAH! easier to knock everything just for the sake of being difficult.

[plachon]

I guess this is so that the Burmese soldiers can work on the land that the military stole from the Karen.

Did the Thai military steal land from the Karen in Myanmar?

I don't know about their land (Burma-Thai gas pipeline anyone?) but the Thai military have been complicit in stealing the Karen's forests and wildlife for many years, through their counterparts in the Burmese junta. Big Jiew was one of the worst offenders in this regard, exchanging Burmese students arrested in Thailand after they fled for their life following the 1988 crackdown for Burmese timber concessions, much of it sourced from Karen native territory. The Karen military also got into the act to a certain extent, but were a little less rapacious than their Burmese counterparts.

Excellent post. Thanks for this, plachon. Few know the history and sociopolitical implications of the deforestation of this region. Big Jiew's real name was Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, a Thai army general and politician. He did indeed cooperate with the Burmese Army in corrupt and dodgy scams that resulted in the deforestation of large swaths of Myanmar/Burma as well as Thailand. At one point, after logging was banned in Thailand, he had an operation that exported logs to Burma, where they were stamped with a forestry stamp to disguise their origin, then re-imported to Thailand. After awhile, they did away with shipping logs across the Salween-- why bother?-- and simply brought the stamp to Thailand. The great Thai forests disappeared into the pockets of Chavalit and others involved.

And not just in Burma and Thailand, either-- he moved his operations to Cambodia after the heat got turned up. This operation involved the Khmer Rouge. Global Witness says that pursuant to a meeting between Cambodian Ag minister Tao Seng Huor and then-Deputy Prime Minister Chavalit, Cambodia agreed to export 1.1 million cubic meters of 'old felled' timber to Thailand.

"All the logs were in Khmer Rouge (KR) held territory, making verification of their existence impossible. Global Witness’ investigations, however, showed that the loggers were in fact cutting to order and paying the KR between $35-90 per m3."

This Global Witness paper makes it clear that China was also involved in the pillaging of natural resources from minority areas of Burma.

(you can open the below link in Internet Explorer or some other browser)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiEpbXp6ujJAhXEFj4KHQRLDFoQFgg-MAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.globalwitness.org%2Fdocuments%2F14710%2F03sep3%2520conflict%2520of%2520interests%252060-89.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGD2Q0tfFt29sA8DDntz_2j75QoVA&bvm=bv.110151844,d.cWw

For a good summary, look into James Fahn's 'Land on Fire: the environmental consequences of the Southeast Asian boom': http://www.amazon.com/Land-Fire-Environmental-Consequences-Southeast/dp/0813342678

For a look at the political economy of deforestation in Thailand, check out these two posts:

https://www.ncsu.edu/project/amazonia/Delang.pdf

http://dev.mtnforum.org/sites/default/files/publication/files/857.pdf

Thanks too, for your further information and links. I do indeed remember the Salween logging scandal, but don't recall Chavalit being at the centre of it. Maybe he was, but I just don't recall his name coming up in the news reports at the time. I do remember his links with pulling a lot of the logs out of Cambodia, though, both before and after the UN elections, and his control of the trade along the Thai-Cambodian and Thai-Lao borders in Isaan, using his old military connections and new political alliances with Isaan godfather politicians to good effect. Wasn't Newin Chidchob initially a New Aspiration Party politician, bringing home the bacon for Chavalit in Buriram, for instance?

By the 90s, Chavalit was an old hand at the game of border logging, having presided over the 1987 debacle at Ban Rom Klao along the Loei-Pitsanuloke border with Laos, that started over rights to logging border forests and resulted in the deaths of an estimated 700 + Thai soldiers and heaven knows how many Lao soldiers, an incident that was deftly brushed under the carpet within the domestic media, though is featured in James Fahn's book you link to, in Grant Evans book on Lao modern history and was obliquely mentioned in Grossman & Faulder's 2011 biography of King Bhumibol (p.158).

If any living Thai politician deserves a critical biography more than Big Jiew and his amazing exploits, I can't think of any. Or perhaps there is one, but written in Thai and not yet translated to English? Historians note......

[DeepInTheForest]

Thanks too, for your further information and links. I do indeed remember the Salween logging scandal, but don't recall Chavalit being at the centre of it. Maybe he was, but I just don't recall his name coming up in the news reports at the time. I do remember his links with pulling a lot of the logs out of Cambodia, though, both before and after the UN elections, and his control of the trade along the Thai-Cambodian and Thai-Lao borders in Isaan, using his old military connections and new political alliances with Isaan godfather politicians to good effect. Wasn't Newin Chidchob initially a New Aspiration Party politician, bringing home the bacon for Chavalit in Buriram, for instance?

By the 90s, Chavalit was an old hand at the game of border logging, having presided over the 1987 debacle at Ban Rom Klao along the Loei-Pitsanuloke border with Laos, that started over rights to logging border forests and resulted in the deaths of an estimated 700 + Thai soldiers and heaven knows how many Lao soldiers, an incident that was deftly brushed under the carpet within the domestic media, though is featured in James Fahn's book you link to, in Grant Evans book on Lao modern history and was obliquely mentioned in Grossman & Faulder's 2011 biography of King Bhumibol (p.158).

If any living Thai politician deserves a critical biography more than Big Jiew and his amazing exploits, I can't think of any. Or perhaps there is one, but written in Thai and not yet translated to English? Historians note......

Thanks for the mention of Grant Evans' book, which I will hunt down, and Grossman and Faulder. I will look up Newin's history, as well, to satisfy curiosity. Good stuff, thanks!

The Salween saga is covered in the Fahn book on p. 141. Or here: https://books.google.com/books?id=281WqbKblukC&pg=PA140&dq=%22james+fahn%22+%22land+on+fire%22+%22the+salween+scandal%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiXnPmf1-7JAhVB4D4KHTF1B5YQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=%22james%20fahn%22%20%22land%20on%20fire%22%20%22the%20salween%20scandal%22&f=false Scroll down a little and readers will see it.

You mentioned that Chavalit would be a great subject for a book. Of course you are right. Many probing articles about his career were written by Pasuk Phongpaichit, the Thai economist, and her husband, Chris Baker, the journalist and historian. (They are usually referred to in order reverse to how I presented them!) You can see their work here: http://www.geocities.ws/changnoi2/main98.htm . The columns, published by The Nation, are a treasure trove-- essential if you're interested in the twists and turns of Thai history, society, and politics. The page of the link contains a link to a piece on Chavalit and the Salween.