SURVEY: Britain exiting the EU, do you support it or not?

[nontabury]

It amuses me that so many seem to think the decision is obvious.

It isn't.

Sadly the case for the EU is not being made strongly enough

The case against is being made in typical shrill fashion by appealing to the base instincts of the poorly informed.

The U.K. Is not part of the Euro zone and not part of Schengen. We also opted out of the social chapters that would have provided much better benefits including great pensions. We have already read that the UK now has American levels of inequality. Shameful.

I have benefitted from having lived in Denmark and in Germany. My sister retired to northern Spain. So I do know something of the conditions in these countries.

Being in Europe does not stop us building business with the BRICS and other developing countries.

Being in the EU brings great inward investment from countries who look on the UK as a door into Europe. The USA, Japan and Australia have all said as much.

If you want to understand the economic case, read the Economist or the FT( or I will spell it out in boring detail)

Sure, the EU is far from perfect - lack of democracy being a key issue for me

Overall, spare us the "shoot from the hip" comments and read up on this important topic.

Me? 80/20 in favour of staying in and fixing the issues from within.

I'm a social democrat at heart and much prefer European principles to American ones....

I think you are very mistaken,as more and more Brits become informed as to the advantages of exiting this corrupt and undemocratic organisation, the more people will want out.Unfortunately I foresee in the next few months a concerted effort by those in power, supported by many in the media to misinform the electorate as to the many advantages of leaving. My question to you, is why are some Brits prepared to accept the argument that we cannot go it alone and prosper, do some elements in the electorate lack the confidence in our own ability.

Undemocratic? Yes. Corrupt? Nah, not really compared with many others.

I think we can have our cake and eat it. We gain huge benefits and if you don't understand ask

Nothing to stop us building new business with developing countries.

But it's not just about business. For me, it's also about civilisation.

Do you spend much time on the continent? Go on, try it!

Not corrupt, perhaps that's one of the reasons they have not signed off their audit in 20 yrs. as I've said previously the British people are now starting to Ask "what are the benefits and disadvantages of remaining in the EU" this is why more and more people as they become more informed are stating their desire to exit this organisation.

[Richard W]

I suppose if I were to look at the problem from a Briton's point of view I'd have to say the EU is helping illegal immigration Britain in that there is the Schengen system

- doomed to failure for lack of protection of external borders - so anyone interested can more or less make it to Calais on public transport and possibly onward from there.

The departure of the UK from the EEA wouldn't affect that problem, except in so far as it reduced cross-channel traffic. Unpoliced movement across Europe seems doomed, anyway.

In the long run, a good portion of the 1 million "refugees" in Germany could be naturalized in some 6 years and would then enjoy the EU liberty of free movement. Technically

they would not be "illegal" by then.

I suppose this is another consequence of devolving EU implementation to the member states. There was concern at the plan of Malta to sell permits to reside in England in the form of Maltese citizenship. Only the rich could buy, so the problem would be dodgy multi-millionaires. (Nearly hit the Thai version of Godwin's Law!) There was a suggestion that the UK would start checking the moral validity of naturalisation by other member states!

I gather that consideration was given by the USA to removing the UK visa waiver privilege because of concerns over our citizens of Pakistani origin.

What you write on the European Convention is right, but that is actually more or less down to political will on the UK side. They got themselves an exception clause by which they

can disregard ECHR rulings based on necessities of public safety. Regularly did so with IRA cases. France has had a "deport now, complain later" system in force, mostly for their

Arab darling-boys for years - which flies in the face of the ECHR rulings on family life, for example - the UK has only adopted that scheme this year. However, there also is the

European Convention on Human Rights, which all EU-members have to adopt; can't disregard ECJ rulings. Cameron has claimed both those European Charters had entered into

"a toxic relationship" impeding Britain to get rid of "people who don't belong here and have no place in our community".

I suppose that is one of the things that must be seen to if the EU is to survive, not just with a view to the UK.

I'm confused by what you say. There's one convention, the European Convention of Human Rights (ECHR), which has to be interpreted by three court systems - British, European Court of Justice (ECJ) for EU law, and the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR). I'm not sure how we seem to avoid complications due to having largely separate English and Scottish systems.

As to "deport now, complain later", presumably losing a year or two of one's life while matters drag through the courts is not considered serious and irreversible harm.

[mrwebb8825]

100% for leaving and hope Scotland leaves UK as a result. Sincerely wishing for a totally independent England one day. Stronger together? What a load of old tosh! All this 'UK will have less say in world affairs' talk is totally immaterial. Like we do now and like anyone listens anyway. John Major is wrong on sovereignty and immigration. Independence and self respect is everything.

This thread will draw in the jealous uk haters. Flame away monkeys!

Well, you guys will never have to worry about being alone if what my British friend used to say is true: "England isn't Americas lapdog, we're it's Rottweiler". We'll take care of you just like we do with our other colonies.

[Slain]

I lived my adult life with no wars due largely to the economic power of the EU and Nato. Funded by the power of the EU economies grouped together with USA.

Almost all business and economic experts in UK say we would be worse off if we were outside of EU.

Friendly countries like USA and many others worry that we will leave.

Unfriendly countries view the opposite

Scotland is really scared if we do leave they will dip out in many ways. They will have to go back to the EU to join up. Probably with less favorable terms

Things like natural disasters i.e.flooding, erosion and other things like mass unemployment are made easier to bear by EU funding. Kinda like an inter-government insurance.

The UK prime minister and most of the other parties are for, continuing with Europe.

There is a greater understanding of the world view, due to the many differing contacts each country has to the outside world.

The first sentence above would be enough for me. To me its a bit like the old saying about democracy. Not perfect but better than the alternatives.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Slain

[MartinL]

This is the second time someone has made this comment. If the UK was a big enough market for German cars, the cars would be manufactured in the UK .... This is the prime reason manufacturers open plants around the world.

Looking at UK v USA sales figures above, do you still say that the UK is an insignificant market for German car manufacturers?

I'd say that, for a country with 5x UK population, German car sales in USA are quite weak.

BMW, at least & maybe others, have a manufacturing plant in Thailand. Does that imply that Thailand is a significant market for them?

BMWs manufactured in Germany can be shipped to UK very easily, not so with USA & Thailand. It therefore makes little sense to open a separate UK plant, especially as there are no tariff barriers Germany >> UK.

. BMW have a Factory in the US wake up

BMW are seen by most people as being a German car manufacturer, wherever those cars might actually be built, hence my phrase " ... German car sales in USA ...".

The main point of my post was to illustrate that the UK is far from being an insignificant market for German car manufacturers, as was claimed by another poster, NeverSure, and the USA was introduced to show that the far smaller UK population buys a proportionately greater number of 'German' cars than the States.

Really, I couldn’t give a rat’s arse what BMW have or don’t have in USA.

Edited December 22, 2015 by MartinL

[nontabury]

I lived my adult life with no wars due largely to the economic power of the EU and Nato. Funded by the power of the EU economies grouped together with USA.

Almost all business and economic experts in UK say we would be worse off if we were outside of EU.

Friendly countries like USA and many others worry that we will leave.

Unfriendly countries view the opposite

Scotland is really scared if we do leave they will dip out in many ways. They will have to go back to the EU to join up. Probably with less favorable terms

Things like natural disasters i.e.flooding, erosion and other things like mass unemployment are made easier to bear by EU funding. Kinda like an inter-government insurance.

The UK prime minister and most of the other parties are for, continuing with Europe.

There is a greater understanding of the world view, due to the many differing contacts each country has to the outside world.

The first sentence above would be enough for me. To me its a bit like the old saying about democracy. Not perfect but better than the alternatives.

Incorrect, it is only the very large companies that wish to remain in the EU,

The vast majority of small businesses, who happen to employ more people, actually want out.

Furthermore the Bank of England whose president is an American, are now saying that the EU's policies have helped to keep the wages of those on the bottom rug lower than they would have been if we were not governed by Brussels. So it would seem that for some the EU is a good thing, unfortunately this does not apply to the majority.

[Grouse]

I lived my adult life with no wars due largely to the economic power of the EU and Nato. Funded by the power of the EU economies grouped together with USA.

Almost all business and economic experts in UK say we would be worse off if we were outside of EU.

Friendly countries like USA and many others worry that we will leave.

Unfriendly countries view the opposite

Scotland is really scared if we do leave they will dip out in many ways. They will have to go back to the EU to join up. Probably with less favorable terms

Things like natural disasters i.e.flooding, erosion and other things like mass unemployment are made easier to bear by EU funding. Kinda like an inter-government insurance.

The UK prime minister and most of the other parties are for, continuing with Europe.

There is a greater understanding of the world view, due to the many differing contacts each country has to the outside world.

The first sentence above would be enough for me. To me its a bit like the old saying about democracy. Not perfect but better than the alternatives.

Incorrect, it is only the very large companies that wish to remain in the EU,

The vast majority of small businesses, who happen to employ more people, actually want out.

Furthermore the Bank of England whose president is an American, are now saying that the EU's policies have helped to keep the wages of those on the bottom rug lower than they would have been if we were not governed by Brussels. So it would seem that for some the EU is a good thing, unfortunately this does not apply to the majority.

The bank is headed by a Canadian I thought?

BTW the EU is a good thing for us all. You just need to read proper newspapers!

[nontabury]

I lived my adult life with no wars due largely to the economic power of the EU and Nato. Funded by the power of the EU economies grouped together with USA.

Almost all business and economic experts in UK say we would be worse off if we were outside of EU.

Friendly countries like USA and many others worry that we will leave.

Unfriendly countries view the opposite

Scotland is really scared if we do leave they will dip out in many ways. They will have to go back to the EU to join up. Probably with less favorable terms

Things like natural disasters i.e.flooding, erosion and other things like mass unemployment are made easier to bear by EU funding. Kinda like an inter-government insurance.

The UK prime minister and most of the other parties are for, continuing with Europe.

There is a greater understanding of the world view, due to the many differing contacts each country has to the outside world.

The first sentence above would be enough for me. To me its a bit like the old saying about democracy. Not perfect but better than the alternatives.

Incorrect, it is only the very large companies that wish to remain in the EU,

The vast majority of small businesses, who happen to employ more people, actually want out.

Furthermore the Bank of England whose president is an American, are now saying that the EU's policies have helped to keep the wages of those on the bottom rug lower than they would have been if we were not governed by Brussels. So it would seem that for some the EU is a good thing, unfortunately this does not apply to the majority.

The bank is headed by a Canadian I thought?

BTW the EU is a good thing for us all. You just need to read proper newspapers!

You are correct, he is Canadian. My apologies.

From an 18yr old up to the present I have read on a daily basis most of the UK newspapers from the communist Daily Worker, now called the Morning Star to the Daily Express, Daily Mirror,Daily Mail, the Telegraph, the Times, the Independent,the Guardian. Perhaps you could suggest others, or do you restrict yourself to reading only those newspapers that agree with you?

[englishoak]

-snip-

Will Mercedes or BMW or even Volkswagen not wish to sell cars to the UK - their biggest single market? Will the French car industry, perfume industry and wine industry stop selling to the UK?

This is the second time someone has made this comment. If the UK was a big enough market for German cars, the cars would be manufactured in the UK if for no other reason than to protect the companies from currency value swings. "Manufacture in the currency you sell in." This is the prime reason manufacturers open plants around the world.

The UK should now ask itself why every major German and Japanese car manufacturer manufactures its cars in the US for the US market. 17 brands are manufactured in the US.

If the UK stopped buying German cars, Germany wouldn't even sneeze.

The BIG question as to viabilities of economies is: "Where is the UK auto manufacturing wealth creator along with its TV sets, computers, and so on that the UK has developed to manufacture and export"?

If you want to measure the strength of an economy you have to ask what that economy does to create new wealth, usually in manufacturing its own products or inventions.

Where are they?

Really ? I mean really ?

Your really going to play stupid ?

There will be no reductions in trade either way because the market will demand otherwise,the fear mongering its all BS.

To measure the strength of an economy one first needs to measure how much has been printed out of nothing to create the illusion of grandeur.

You should pipe down with such fine examples of a flat economy such as Japan despite printing trillions and the short to be lived boom created in the US only happening out of even more created out of nothing Trillions, soon to be lots more.

Oh and the new helicopter drop the Euro has already announced its doing in the new year, no doubt GB will add in even more at some point next recession....

The point here is you are skating on shattered ice m8 to talk about the measure of any of the economies mentioned, its all a load of BS propped up by pumped in trillions... but you know this...

Oh an far as Europe is concerned they just went total right wing heaven if they ever get in by voting to have this new gestapo unit who can cross all borders even if told not to by a nation member....

That right there is over a big fat line and very dangerous territory .... wake up europe your slipping into that trap the nazis pulled on its people..

The UK does not belong to this mindset or ideology, Time to ship on out ASAP before its too late.

You are so badly mistaken. Where do you get this stuff? You said:

"To measure the strength of an economy one first needs to measure how much has been printed out of nothing to create the illusion of grandeur.

You should pipe down with such fine examples of a flat economy such as Japan despite printing trillions and the short to be lived boom created in the US only happening out of even more created out of nothing Trillions, soon to be lots more."

This is hogwash. "The US and "created out of nothing trillions, soon to be lots more."

The US can't create money out of nothing. It can't just "print money." It is violation of US law. When the US has a deficit it has to borrow the money which is what causes the national debt. If the US could just print money or create it out of nothing, there would be no need for a national debt.

Get it?

However, FYI, the EU can just print money out of nothing and that's where a great danger lies.

You do know that the UK's debt is fast approaching that of the US as a percentage of GDP? Yet the UK doesn't have the economic engine to support it. It doesn't have the vast farm and timber land and minerals and other natural resources. It doesn't have the inventions or the manufacturing. It doesn't have the 88,000 miles of saltwater shoreline that the US has. It doesn't have much of anything other than burgeoning debt and a failing NHS and Muslim no-go zones.

Cheers.

You have no intention or abilty to repay the national debt, thats why it only goes in one direction, its all BS your pretending and you know it...... you have the petro dollar monopoly, if that isnt making money out of nothing i dont know what is

Being a banker i wouldnt expect you to admit the US faults or the finance secotr, there is no point having that discussion tbh we are never going to agree.

Your impression of the UK its revenue streams and options are ... ummm pretty limited it seems, we arnt a resource based economy and havnt been for a long time,the £ can and will be devalued but nothing like the Euro will, we vote in for good then we are committed to the Euro in time as well and no one thinks thats a good move for the UK, wait until they roll that one out in the campaign .....really im almost embarrassed for you, as for the Muslim no go areas indeed...total BS, what a putz. Tell me where I dare you, we have areas that are more dangerous than others and even some the police or post wont go in alone with certain demographic minorities in some of them but.... there are no "Muslim" no go areas in the UK, just trouble areas. Fact.

Jesus what media do you watch fox or something ?

Im mindful plenty in the world are desperate to see the UK absorbed into some federal Europe, especially for some reason most Americans, big is better mentality i guess.

[phantomfiddler]

British by birth, English by the grace of God It was a terrible idea from the start, and no way should some clown in Europe be telling us what we can or can,t do. A resounding failure, and an expensive one at that !

[bkk_mike]

Only England wants to leave, and even then, only barely.

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland want to stay in. (Latest polls in Scotland are 2:1 in favour of staying in - possibly because it's European law that has overridden some of the odder laws that have come out of Westminster this millenium.) *

The problem for the others is that the English form the vast majority of the population of the UK.

Everyone that wants to leave talks about how many German cars get imported. They completely forget that the Japanese build large numbers of cars for export to Europe in the UK (Nissan in Sunderland, Honda in Swindon, Toyota in Derby).

Those jobs wouldn't disappear immediately after a Brexit, but do you honestly think expansion plans wouldn't get shelved? They already have to cope with the fact that the UK didn't join the Euro (another poster said you should build cars in the currency they're being bought in), and if tariff barriers come along, that would be the end of Britain as a "gateway to Europe".

The bigger issue is what's the alternative?

Norway and Switzerland are both touted as options because they've signed up to free trade agreements with the EU, but that ignores why they're not in the EU. After all, both are in Schengen, and have free movement of people within the Schengen area, which seems to be the bit that the "out"ers have the biggest issues with. Norway, like Iceland, isn't in the EU because of the Common Fisheries policy. Switzerland isn't in because they applied, then had a referendum, and the people voted not to join. But they have signed up to so many of the rules that there is not much difference to if they'd been members anyway (with a Euro currency opt-out like Denmark and the UK).

The more realistic alternative would be Turkey. Turkey has a customs union with the EU, but not free movement. This appears to be what people say they want.

What they seem to really want would appear to be free movement of Brits in the EU - so they can still retire to Spain or Cyprus, and not have to deal with visas (or more likely Electronic Travel Authorities - like the US and Australia make us get - and pay for) when they go on holiday, but without the free movement of other Europeans into the UK... - I can't think of a better definition of wishful thinking...

There are two really "bad" scenarios though... - an out vote - where Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland all voted to stay in. Scotland will then almost certainly have a second Independence referendum, this time with the thought in the back of voters minds of large numbers (nowhere near all - but a not insignificant number) of well-paid Financial jobs moving from London to Edinburgh (as a lot of trading that takes place in London on European markets is only permitted because the UK is INSIDE the EU).. If Scotland leaves, Northern Ireland could follow (maybe joining the Republic?).

The other scenario which could be a problem, is a narrow vote to stay in, but where England has voted to leave, just not decisively enough to overcome the stay votes from the rest of the UK. Expect UKIP to do really well in the polls, and possibly also in elections (in England) if that happens.

* - Example - the permission for a British citizen to marry a non-EU national in the UK needing to get approval from the government (for which, there was, as always, a fee). This by itself is quite nasty (the government telling you who you can or cannot marry is taking things too far in my opinion), but would have been seen as fine legally except that it had a regional division by having an exemption for the Church of England. (not the Catholic Church, the Church of Scotland, or any other church with a large membership north of the border...) - The predominantly English parliament in Westminster had essentially brought in a new tax on Scots and Catholics (and people of all other religions except Anglicans...). It's only the European Court ruling it illegal that prevents this relatively recent law (we're talking Blair government here, not something from the time of Henry VIII) still being around.

[MMF]

I've a feeling that the pound will weaken if we leave, so although my heart says leave my head says stay.

So, you feel like and agree with Nick Clegg then. England is not strong enough, England is not capable, England is weak.

In my opinion E is strong, the £ against other currencies proves it. 55 Mil a day to the EU bureaucrats for nothing in return is enough for me to leave and keep that money where is needed, UK!

[maximillian]

Hi everybody

I am from Germany and I truly hope GB will leave the EU. After a GB exit, possibly and hopefully, other countries would follow.

There was a good intention from the founders of the EU but it turned into a bureaucratic monster. Many countries were able to join the EU that better not had joined. e.g. Greece, Bulgaria, Romania. They would even have accepted Ukrainia into the EU. (!!!) After all I am afraid EU politics, NATO politics, US politics are too much interwoven. There is another sinister plan behind the EU, I am afraid.

Now the US together with its allies are not only de-stabilising the Middle East and Northern Africa but they are already busy de-stabilising the EU and the whole of Europe, including Russia. We are heading for another war, I fear.

[nontabury]

Only England wants to leave, and even then, only barely.

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland want to stay in. (Latest polls in Scotland are 2:1 in favour of staying in - possibly because it's European law that has overridden some of the odder laws that have come out of Westminster this millenium.) *

The problem for the others is that the English form the vast majority of the population of the UK.

Everyone that wants to leave talks about how many German cars get imported. They completely forget that the Japanese build large numbers of cars for export to Europe in the UK (Nissan in Sunderland, Honda in Swindon, Toyota in Derby).

Those jobs wouldn't disappear immediately after a Brexit, but do you honestly think expansion plans wouldn't get shelved? They already have to cope with the fact that the UK didn't join the Euro (another poster said you should build cars in the currency they're being bought in), and if tariff barriers come along, that would be the end of Britain as a "gateway to Europe".

The bigger issue is what's the alternative?

Norway and Switzerland are both touted as options because they've signed up to free trade agreements with the EU, but that ignores why they're not in the EU. After all, both are in Schengen, and have free movement of people within the Schengen area, which seems to be the bit that the "out"ers have the biggest issues with. Norway, like Iceland, isn't in the EU because of the Common Fisheries policy. Switzerland isn't in because they applied, then had a referendum, and the people voted not to join. But they have signed up to so many of the rules that there is not much difference to if they'd been members anyway (with a Euro currency opt-out like Denmark and the UK).

The more realistic alternative would be Turkey. Turkey has a customs union with the EU, but not free movement. This appears to be what people say they want.

What they seem to really want would appear to be free movement of Brits in the EU - so they can still retire to Spain or Cyprus, and not have to deal with visas (or more likely Electronic Travel Authorities - like the US and Australia make us get - and pay for) when they go on holiday, but without the free movement of other Europeans into the UK... - I can't think of a better definition of wishful thinking...

There are two really "bad" scenarios though... - an out vote - where Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland all voted to stay in. Scotland will then almost certainly have a second Independence referendum, this time with the thought in the back of voters minds of large numbers (nowhere near all - but a not insignificant number) of well-paid Financial jobs moving from London to Edinburgh (as a lot of trading that takes place in London on European markets is only permitted because the UK is INSIDE the EU).. If Scotland leaves, Northern Ireland could follow (maybe joining the Republic?).

The other scenario which could be a problem, is a narrow vote to stay in, but where England has voted to leave, just not decisively enough to overcome the stay votes from the rest of the UK. Expect UKIP to do really well in the polls, and possibly also in elections (in England) if that happens.

* - Example - the permission for a British citizen to marry a non-EU national in the UK needing to get approval from the government (for which, there was, as always, a fee). This by itself is quite nasty (the government telling you who you can or cannot marry is taking things too far in my opinion), but would have been seen as fine legally except that it had a regional division by having an exemption for the Church of England. (not the Catholic Church, the Church of Scotland, or any other church with a large membership north of the border...) - The predominantly English parliament in Westminster had essentially brought in a new tax on Scots and Catholics (and people of all other religions except Anglicans...). It's only the European Court ruling it illegal that prevents this relatively recent law (we're talking Blair government here, not something from the time of Henry VIII) still being around.

There is now quite a majority of the English who according to option polls wish to leave the EU. You are correct in saying that the Scottish voters have been polled with a majority wishing to remain in, however I'm sure you know that the reasons for that are not straight forward. The Welsh voters do wish to opt out, not by a large majority but by ever increasing numbers.As for the Northern Irish, anybody who tries to guess what will happen there are sure to be wrong.

As for your assumption that in the event of Scotland separating from the rest of the Union, many financial jobs will move to Edinburgh from London. I don't think you could be more wrong. If the SNP had got their way in 2014, there were already plans for the reverse to happen, and that was when oil was valued at approx $100 a barrel, now I think the figure is closer to $34 a barrel.

finally regarding your comments on the Christian religions, I don't see how that is relevant in modern day UK, however I would point out to you that Tony WMD Blair is not only Scottish, but is also RC.

[Grouse]

I lived my adult life with no wars due largely to the economic power of the EU and Nato. Funded by the power of the EU economies grouped together with USA.

Almost all business and economic experts in UK say we would be worse off if we were outside of EU.

Friendly countries like USA and many others worry that we will leave.

Unfriendly countries view the opposite

Scotland is really scared if we do leave they will dip out in many ways. They will have to go back to the EU to join up. Probably with less favorable terms

Things like natural disasters i.e.flooding, erosion and other things like mass unemployment are made easier to bear by EU funding. Kinda like an inter-government insurance.

The UK prime minister and most of the other parties are for, continuing with Europe.

There is a greater understanding of the world view, due to the many differing contacts each country has to the outside world.

The first sentence above would be enough for me. To me its a bit like the old saying about democracy. Not perfect but better than the alternatives.

Incorrect, it is only the very large companies that wish to remain in the EU,

The vast majority of small businesses, who happen to employ more people, actually want out.

Furthermore the Bank of England whose president is an American, are now saying that the EU's policies have helped to keep the wages of those on the bottom rug lower than they would have been if we were not governed by Brussels. So it would seem that for some the EU is a good thing, unfortunately this does not apply to the majority.

The bank is headed by a Canadian I thought?

BTW the EU is a good thing for us all. You just need to read proper newspapers!

You are correct, he is Canadian. My apologies.

From an 18yr old up to the present I have read on a daily basis most of the UK newspapers from the communist Daily Worker, now called the Morning Star to the Daily Express, Daily Mirror,Daily Mail, the Telegraph, the Times, the Independent,the Guardian. Perhaps you could suggest others, or do you restrict yourself to reading only those newspapers that agree with you?

Horses for courses

Try the FT and The Economist

Not many tits, but wise words.......

[nontabury]

Hi everybody

I am from Germany and I truly hope GB will leave the EU. After a GB exit, possibly and hopefully, other countries would follow.

There was a good intention from the founders of the EU but it turned into a bureaucratic monster. Many countries were able to join the EU that better not had joined. e.g. Greece, Bulgaria, Romania. They would even have accepted Ukrainia into the EU. (!!!) After all I am afraid EU politics, NATO politics, US politics are too much interwoven. There is another sinister plan behind the EU, I am afraid.

Now the US together with its allies are not only de-stabilising the Middle East and Northern Africa but they are already busy de-stabilising the EU and the whole of Europe, including Russia. We are heading for another war, I fear.

Agree with every thing you say, and You are certainly not alone in what you wish for. I personally have had many discussion with continentals who expressed their regret at being forced to accept the EURO,this is especially so of those who previously used the Deutschmark.

[55Jay]

Hi everybody

I am from Germany and I truly hope GB will leave the EU. After a GB exit, possibly and hopefully, other countries would follow.

There was a good intention from the founders of the EU but it turned into a bureaucratic monster. Many countries were able to join the EU that better not had joined. e.g. Greece, Bulgaria, Romania. They would even have accepted Ukrainia into the EU. (!!!) After all I am afraid EU politics, NATO politics, US politics are too much interwoven. There is another sinister plan behind the EU, I am afraid.

Now the US together with its allies are not only de-stabilising the Middle East and Northern Africa but they are already busy de-stabilising the EU and the whole of Europe, including Russia. We are heading for another war, I fear.

Dissolve the EU because it's a pile of sh*te, but blame it on the Americans.

[Grouse]

Search "The Economist Brexit"

Read and decide.............

[Songlaw]

There is more than one way to look at this. Is it good for the EU and/or is it good for the UK?

Who would benefit most by a UK exit?

The UK. The EU seems to be imploding under it's own weight. Some experiments just don't turn out as hoped.

[hobobo]

Leave the EU, the sooner the better. Just one of the hundreds of examples of stupid EU rules: it took Britain 10 years to deport a convicted Jordanian terrorist, because the Brussels bureaucrats and "do gooders" decided that deportation would infringe on his human rights! And in those ten years the Council had to provide him a 6 bedroom house for his murdering brats and a couple of filthy wives. When Italy deports Arab terrorists they give Brussles or Strassburgh the finger! A small example, but one could write a book! Best England goes it alone and trades with whomever she chooses!

[mpa]

Reading some posts here someone thinks Britain is not a part of Europe.

Geography much?

[yogi100]

Hi everybody

I am from Germany and I truly hope GB will leave the EU. After a GB exit, possibly and hopefully, other countries would follow.

There was a good intention from the founders of the EU but it turned into a bureaucratic monster. Many countries were able to join the EU that better not had joined. e.g. Greece, Bulgaria, Romania. They would even have accepted Ukrainia into the EU. (!!!) After all I am afraid EU politics, NATO politics, US politics are too much interwoven. There is another sinister plan behind the EU, I am afraid.

Now the US together with its allies are not only de-stabilising the Middle East and Northern Africa but they are already busy de-stabilising the EU and the whole of Europe, including Russia. We are heading for another war, I fear.

I doubt there will be a war but there are going to be some very serious internal civil disturbances that can only be avoided by segregation or mass deportations. I think this internal strife will begin in Sweden, Germany or Belgium.

There was a German fellow in my hotel and when Merkel opened the gates he was furious and sincerely announced that he hoped someone would put a bullet in the woman's head.

[elgordo38]

A few rich and nothing more

That just about describes any country in the world.

[Dustdevil]

Fact check! Some Eurocentric loose-with-the-facts here says the EU is the world's largest economy. Fact: the 2014 US GDP was just under $19 trillion. The EU GDP was about $2 trillion less, and is now worth less than that in dollar terms. China, btw, is at $10 trillion. Source: World Bank

[elgordo38]

The EU is a stitch up by powerful multi nationals and bankers, just like every other 'economic' and/or 'trading' block. It is a way of cutting wages, staff, investment, tax and the smaller competition. It serves the rich and powerful and does nothing for most people. The incredibly dim witted socialists are kept on board with fat salaries and a few 'social engineering' rulings and regulations. Getting out is only step one.

yeah right, because UK governments look after their people so well, what did i read this morning, in the UK 1% have more than 57%. I lived nigh on 40 years in Germany,what a difference to the UK that was, better treatment for the working person all round, better benefits, higher wages, better health service, higher pensions,longer holidays etc.

Yes Germany has done better for its citizens and yes the 1% club has a lot of members in the UK as well as world wide. The 1% club is to be feared as they want to gain a foothold in every country. Germany could be destabilized by the 100,000's of immigrants pouring in. Throw in a big business scandal like VW and its a real can of worms. VW should be prosecuted but the German government has shown little stomach to do so. Big business is edging closer day by day to the day when they will make the rules not the government.

[Dustdevil]

Hi everybody

I am from Germany and I truly hope GB will leave the EU. After a GB exit, possibly and hopefully, other countries would follow.

There was a good intention from the founders of the EU but it turned into a bureaucratic monster. Many countries were able to join the EU that better not had joined. e.g. Greece, Bulgaria, Romania. They would even have accepted Ukrainia into the EU. (!!!) After all I am afraid EU politics, NATO politics, US politics are too much interwoven. There is another sinister plan behind the EU, I am afraid.

Now the US together with its allies are not only de-stabilising the Middle East and Northern Africa but they are already busy de-stabilising the EU and the whole of Europe, including Russia. We are heading for another war, I fear.

Dissolve the EU because it's a pile of sh*te, but blame it on the Americans.

Right. Let Germany become part of their beloved Russia.

[HikeFromLA]

.a clutter of non like minded countries controlled by a megalomaniac female that must be a descendant of Hitler

Well put my friend. I agree with every word you have spoken. especially the descendant of Hitler. Give us back our Island.

Actually she is the daughter of Commies.

[HikeFromLA]

Praying for an exit, Britain has been saved by virtue of being an Island in the past, the EU seems to have a death wish so exit is desperately needed.

The UK can not afford to "go it alone" due to their GNP not being to support itself.

I wonder how Singapore does it?

[HikeFromLA]

You mentioned Germans exporting cars to the UK.

Correct, Germany earns money with these exports. Good for Germany.

And UK earns money by specializing in different products, that they are better at. Good for UK.

The advantages of free trade (between equals).

This is a simple example of the answer that Adam Smith (1776) gave to the mercantilists (1650+).

Adam Smith was not a pure laissez-faire free trader, but he has become an icon to those who are.

In any case, the rise of Japan and the BRIC's has demonstrated that private enterprise that is protected by tariffs, and that is guided by wise nationalist regulation, produces faster economic development.

It is time to quit talking about Adam Smith, and start talking about what actually works.

[thaibeachlovers]

Praying for an exit, Britain has been saved by virtue of being an Island in the past, the EU seems to have a death wish so exit is desperately needed.

The UK can not afford to "go it alone" due to their GNP not being to support itself.

I wonder how Singapore does it?

They do it because they are on a tiny island with low infrastructure costs of transportation, but mainly because their political system is rather draconian and doesn't allow unions to rock the boat. When I lived there, there were never any strikes, at a time when the west was beset by them. I liked it there, but I think many in the west would find it hard to tolerate the restrictions.