Relationships with Students

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think the traditional ethical lines are pretty clear on this:

--For a teacher, it would be UNETHICAL to have a relationship with any adult student who they are teaching at the time or may be teaching in the future, or over whom they have any professional role/involvement (department chair, counseling, etc.)

--On the other hand, if it's a relationship between a teacher and an adult student where the only connection is that they both are at the same school -- but aren't in class together and no professional connection -- then that would NOT generally be considered unethical -- although personally I'd consider it to be bad form and risky behavior on the teacher's part.

Are people now expected to know the future ?

In the university world, some things can be reasonably foreseen, such as...

If you're teaching in a major and the relationship involves a student in the same major, there's a reasonable likelihood the student could end up in one of your courses. Or the same thing if you're teaching a core course that's required of all students. Or same thing if you're the department chair for the student's major.

If someone is an ethical teacher, then they're going to want to avoid actual conflicts of interest, and take steps to avoid likely ones.

The core underlying issue here is it's simply not professional or ethical for a teacher or administrator to be grading or making any other academic decisions involving a person with whom they're having a simultaneous romantic/sexual relationship.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think the traditional ethical lines are pretty clear on this:

--For a teacher, it would be UNETHICAL to have a relationship with any adult student who they are teaching at the time or may be teaching in the future, or over whom they have any professional role/involvement (department chair, counseling, etc.)

--On the other hand, if it's a relationship between a teacher and an adult student where the only connection is that they both are at the same school -- but aren't in class together and no professional connection -- then that would NOT generally be considered unethical -- although personally I'd consider it to be bad form and risky behavior on the teacher's part.

That would depend on the ethics you follow.

Christian Victorian ethical values are what you suggest.

Plato would suggest an entirely different set of values (Usually with male students).

Buddhist as practiced in Thailand ...... Who could guess?

I'm talking about the generally accepted Western professional ethics for teachers and school administrators in today's world -- not some theoretical ethical philosophies out of history books.

As for Thailand, I have no idea of whether professional ethics even enter into the realm of consciousness for Thai educators. But then again, I'm going to be guided by my sense of professional ethics, not theirs.

I'm not saying sexual relationships don't occur between students and their current teachers, because obviously they do. But, in general, I think you'd have to look pretty far and wide to find any professional education entity that considers those kinds of relationships to be ethical or professionally correct.

Edited December 23, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JHolmesJr]

Id never do it, simply because Id always suspect I was being set up.

[simon43]

Although, in a teacher/students relationship, I would question if the latter really loves the former and isn't just infatuated.

Or even the other way round

[bwpage3]

The fact you are in Thailand and working as a teacher says it all. Right bro?

What kind of teacher uses the word "bro"?

People that have moved 10,000 miles away from their own country to take job as a teacher in Thailand making peanuts, it begs to have the question asked what was the motive for doing so?

Predatory tactics mentioned by the OP, makes us aware that the OP has already thought about this topic and probably feeling some remorse that is his motivation for being a teacher.

As far as relationships don't last? Relationships where there are unethical people involved never last.

I have not heard too many farang teachers telling their potential "victims", Gee I am a teacher in Thailand. I am piss poor broke, living in a one room flat, making less than 30,000 THB a month.

I don't hear these said "teachers" telling these girls, by the way, I will never have enough money to get married (sin/sot), buy you a house, car or anything else you dream about. I don't have enough money to fly home and I have no where to stay in my own country.

In this the "Sincere Connection" you are talking about?

You surely cannot be so good looking handsum man that a young thai girl would fall in love with your broke ass?

If you were, you probably would not be in Thailand in the first place.

So predatory tactics is probably a goal of the majority of farang teachers in Thailand.

Because if you had any ethics, you would not trap girls into sex when you have absolutely nothing or no future to offer.

It sure cannot be for the money.

It sure cannot be for the teaching experience which is worthless in any other civilized country in the world.

Anyone that would write a post on this topic is already a predator; not a teacher.

[MaeJoMTB]

I have not heard too many farang teachers telling their potential "victims", Gee I am a teacher in Thailand. I am piss poor broke, living in a one room flat, making less than 30,000 THB a month.

Just to point out,

Most of the potential 'victims' have parents struggling to make 10k a month.

A teacher earning 30k a month might look like a good prospect to many of them.

Not to mention the potential 'foreign passport & citizenship' that comes with marriage.

[eldragon]

I have not heard too many farang teachers telling their potential "victims", Gee I am a teacher in Thailand. I am piss poor broke, living in a one room flat, making less than 30,000 THB a month.

Just to point out,

Most of the potential 'victims' have parents struggling to make 10k a month.

A teacher earning 30k a month might look like a good prospect to many of them.

Not to mention the potential 'foreign passport & citizenship' that comes with marriage.

Not to mention the victims that are often times more clever than the predators and already have/had it going on with a handful of Thai sugar daddies plus a couple young giks.

[bigt3116]

I think the traditional ethical lines are pretty clear on this:

--For a teacher, it would be UNETHICAL to have a relationship with any adult student who they are teaching at the time or may be teaching in the future, or over whom they have any professional role/involvement (department chair, counseling, etc.)

--On the other hand, if it's a relationship between a teacher and an adult student where the only connection is that they both are at the same school -- but aren't in class together and no professional connection -- then that would NOT generally be considered unethical -- although personally I'd consider it to be bad form and risky behavior on the teacher's part.

That would depend on the ethics you follow.

Christian Victorian ethical values are what you suggest.

Plato would suggest an entirely different set of values (Usually with male students).

Buddhist as practiced in Thailand ...... Who could guess?

Just for your information - http://www.differencebetween.net/language/difference-between-ethics-and-values/

[bigt3116]

The fact you are in Thailand and working as a teacher says it all. Right bro?

What kind of teacher uses the word "bro"?

People that have moved 10,000 miles away from their own country to take job as a teacher in Thailand making peanuts, it begs to have the question asked what was the motive for doing so?

Predatory tactics mentioned by the OP, makes us aware that the OP has already thought about this topic and probably feeling some remorse that is his motivation for being a teacher.

As far as relationships don't last? Relationships where there are unethical people involved never last.

I have not heard too many farang teachers telling their potential "victims", Gee I am a teacher in Thailand. I am piss poor broke, living in a one room flat, making less than 30,000 THB a month.

I don't hear these said "teachers" telling these girls, by the way, I will never have enough money to get married (sin/sot), buy you a house, car or anything else you dream about. I don't have enough money to fly home and I have no where to stay in my own country.

In this the "Sincere Connection" you are talking about?

You surely cannot be so good looking handsum man that a young thai girl would fall in love with your broke ass?

If you were, you probably would not be in Thailand in the first place.

So predatory tactics is probably a goal of the majority of farang teachers in Thailand.

Because if you had any ethics, you would not trap girls into sex when you have absolutely nothing or no future to offer.

It sure cannot be for the money.

It sure cannot be for the teaching experience which is worthless in any other civilized country in the world.

Anyone that would write a post on this topic is already a predator; not a teacher.

You make a lot of assumptions, (in poor English), do you have any data or links to back it up ?

[bangmai]

I was subbing at Nogales High School, 2 miles from the Mexican border, and a number of female students worked in the sex industry across the border, which I did indeed visit. Most were 18+. That being stated, in education, appearances are everything. So I say never with a high school student, even if she has three kids and five years in the business. Maybe at least a few years after they graduate, even if they are hookers. Uni girls...absolutely not if they are your students, and not in a way, which would get the gossip networks going. Especially, if you planned to keep the job. A lot of Uni-girls are mid-twenties, but I don't even think I would friend them on FB until they were finished with my class. I think any public displays of affection would also be a big mistake...I saw a 27 yo High School teacher get 4 years in prison for 100% consensual sex with a former student, who was 17.5 yo. What a difference a few months can make. They could have starred in porn movies, but in the eyes of the law, she is either 18 or not. The femminazis have attempted to expand the meaning of paedophile to include anyone interested in younger girls...couldn't be further from the truth. A paedophile has desires for pre-pubescent. But, the clear fact that some of these 15 year olds have had a mile of dick, and are going on 35, is a disaster waiting to happen. Giving them a ride, or showing any kind of relationship, in any way is a huge mistake, and besides you could probably do their moms for a lot less money.

[eldragon]

The fact you are in Thailand and working as a teacher says it all. Right bro?

What kind of teacher uses the word "bro"?

People that have moved 10,000 miles away from their own country to take job as a teacher in Thailand making peanuts, it begs to have the question asked what was the motive for doing so?

Predatory tactics mentioned by the OP, makes us aware that the OP has already thought about this topic and probably feeling some remorse that is his motivation for being a teacher.

As far as relationships don't last? Relationships where there are unethical people involved never last.

I have not heard too many farang teachers telling their potential "victims", Gee I am a teacher in Thailand. I am piss poor broke, living in a one room flat, making less than 30,000 THB a month.

I don't hear these said "teachers" telling these girls, by the way, I will never have enough money to get married (sin/sot), buy you a house, car or anything else you dream about. I don't have enough money to fly home and I have no where to stay in my own country.

In this the "Sincere Connection" you are talking about?

You surely cannot be so good looking handsum man that a young thai girl would fall in love with your broke ass?

If you were, you probably would not be in Thailand in the first place.

So predatory tactics is probably a goal of the majority of farang teachers in Thailand.

Because if you had any ethics, you would not trap girls into sex when you have absolutely nothing or no future to offer.

It sure cannot be for the money.

It sure cannot be for the teaching experience which is worthless in any other civilized country in the world.

Anyone that would write a post on this topic is already a predator; not a teacher.

Did you lose a girl to an English teacher or something? Seriously. You do realize many of these girls work at spas, go gos, and the countless karaoke bars throughout the country, right? So they're not all as innocent as you seem to suggest. When I worked at a uni, a couple very cute girls approached me and asked me how much English teachers make, which btw can be in the neighborhood of 100K/month, or more. They then said their boyfriends were English teachers elsewhere in Thailand and wanted to know how much they could get out of em. I knew a handful of other girls that were engaged to marry guys twice their age. Not trying to justify anything. I don't teach adults and have zero interest in students. But it begs wondering who the real predators are in some of these situations. Edited December 23, 2015 by eldragon

[aarontendo]

Grad students ok, undergrads not so much.

I see the difference, but there's still the matter of grades and authority hanging over everything. That being said, I think it's fine provided there's a sincere connection, the teacher is not using predatory tactics, and the student is not just infatuated. And I would suggest waiting until the course is over. Sometimes students aren't as impressed with the teacher when the position of authority is taken away.

I should have been more specific. In no way, shape, or form should they be your students. I figured we already knew that!

Also, I think we have to distinguish between when a person as a uni instructor meets an honest to goodness girl he likes (and he wasn't looking for) and a fella who's there for that as a primary purpose.

[MaeJoMTB]

.I saw a 27 yo High School teacher get 4 years in prison for 100% consensual sex with a former student, who was 17.5 yo. What a difference a few months can make. They could have starred in porn movies, but in the eyes of the law, she is either 18 or not.

We aren't in America, laws are different here. Morality is different here.

[brewsterbudgen]

Teachers are in a position of authority. If you need to date your students your sad, unprofessional and disgusting. Predatory behavior and should be sacked. Any questions?

Only one. "Your" (sic) obviously not a teacher yourself, so why should anyone take your views on the topic seriously?

[bangmai]

.I saw a 27 yo High School teacher get 4 years in prison for 100% consensual sex with a former student, who was 17.5 yo. What a difference a few months can make. They could have starred in porn movies, but in the eyes of the law, she is either 18 or not.

We aren't in America, laws are different here. Morality is different here.

Except for an American traveling abroad is subject to the 18 yo rule and can (and have been) extradited and prosecuted in the States for sexual deviance in countries, where the "morality is different."

[brewsterbudgen]

.I saw a 27 yo High School teacher get 4 years in prison for 100% consensual sex with a former student, who was 17.5 yo. What a difference a few months can make. They could have starred in porn movies, but in the eyes of the law, she is either 18 or not.

We aren't in America, laws are different here. Morality is different here.

Sex with under 18 year olds is still illegal for foreigners here.

[eldragon]

.I saw a 27 yo High School teacher get 4 years in prison for 100% consensual sex with a former student, who was 17.5 yo. What a difference a few months can make. They could have starred in porn movies, but in the eyes of the law, she is either 18 or not.

We aren't in America, laws are different here. Morality is different here.

Sex with under 18 year olds is still illegal for foreigners here.

Can we not turn this into a thread about underage/secondary school aged sex? Thx.

[MaeJoMTB]

Can we not turn this into a thread about underage/secondary school aged sex? Thx.

I've been married to a Thai girl for the 4 years of her secondary school education, and the first term of her university education.

But I wasn't her teacher during that time. Although I was a secondary school teacher in the UK.

During my younger years, teaching at a 6th form college in the UK (students aged 16-18), almost all the single male teachers were dating their students.

(Not me, because I was married to one of the other teachers, she was 21)

Totally off topic,

When we started working there, my wife was thrown out of the school during lunch break, the older teacher shouted 'All students outside at lunch time', she replied 'But I'm a teacher'

Yes, when I was young I dated and married a student, now I'm old ............ I've done it again.

Edited December 24, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[lostinisaan]

I have not heard too many farang teachers telling their potential "victims", Gee I am a teacher in Thailand. I am piss poor broke, living in a one room flat, making less than 30,000 THB a month.

Just to point out,

Most of the potential 'victims' have parents struggling to make 10k a month.

A teacher earning 30k a month might look like a good prospect to many of them.

Not to mention the potential 'foreign passport & citizenship' that comes with marriage.

And not to forget the chances to give birth to a future Miss Universe, of course only if the baby maker's Germish.

No skin whitener needed. A win- win situation for all.

[ev1lchris]

Once they have graduated it's fair game.

[eldragon]

Can we not turn this into a thread about underage/secondary school aged sex? Thx.

I've been married to a Thai girl for the 4 years of her secondary school education, and the first term of her university education.

But I wasn't her teacher during that time. Although I was a secondary school teacher in the UK.

During my younger years, teaching at a 6th form college in the UK (students aged 16-18), almost all the single male teachers were dating their students.

(Not me, because I was married to one of the other teachers, she was 21)

Totally off topic,

When we started working there, my wife was thrown out of the school during lunch break, the older teacher shouted 'All students outside at lunch time', she replied 'But I'm a teacher'

Yes, when I was young I dated and married a student, now I'm old ............ I've done it again.

One thing I've learned in Thailand is even when you don't agree with someone's decisions you can still respect em for doing what they want.

[bangmai]

How old was Joseph, when he married Mary, and how old was she? Seems they may of had to go to the Prathom to find a bona fide virgin, back then, too.

[BlindMagician]

Very bad. Crosses professional ethical boundaries, full stop.

I'm not a die hard old stick in the mud. This is a serious cornerstone in the professional relationship that should exist between teacher and student. Has nothing to do with legal age of consent.

[simon43]

Three Dutch schoolteachers and their pupils at a girls school in Indonesia, c1941.

Is the teacher on the left gay??

[blazes]

If they're old enough for it to be legal, why worry about anything else?

If you don't want to do it, why think about what others are doing?

Good point. But I can still think it's creepy. Young Thai students tend to seek the approval of their teacher. They also tend to think the foreign teacher is cooler than he/she might really be. And then there's grades hanging over everything. Could be some expectations involved. All things considered, it seems like exploitation.

I would be more than happy to give a student an 'A' they didn't earn, in return for sexual favours (or cash in an envelope).

Am I exploiting them, or are they exploiting me?

An 'A' for a lay?

[MobileContent]

Sadly the way the OP thinks many Farang or other foreign teachers are thinking about the trophies they can pick up in this country.

Farang or any foreign teacher that even doesn't have children on his own should never be allowed to teach in this country.

What you find in Thai schools of teachers are the leftovers that Korea, China and other countries don't want.

Went yesterday to a city in Sakon Nakhon at an evening festival fair. One foreign teachers who spoke with a British accent and was colored took photos from three students in the age of around 12-13 and the teacher told them sexy boy. I was discussed to see when the teacher took his arm over the arm of the student and I think rules surely have been broken and this teacher seems to be attracting to children's and is a pedophile.

If the OP think it is appropriate I can only say on one issue at AIT in Bangkok that the foreign lecturer was fired when it became clear that he banged both local and foreign students and he was reported to the MoE.

Their is so much wrong with this country and the way the OP ticks many <snips> are thinking in the same way. Met so many foreign teachers already in Thailand and most of them I wouldn't even let near my kid.

Maybe the Thai government should reconsider getting rid of the males and change them to females. I am seeing this trend already in Sakon Nakhon that foreign male teachers do not get renewed their contracts and female farangs are hired. Hopefully the trend goes on.

Edited December 24, 2015 by MobileContent

[simon43]

I am seeing this trend already in Sakon Nakhon that foreign male teachers do not get renewed their contracts and female farangs are hired. Hopefully the trend goes on.

For those dedicated, male teachers such as myself, who have no plans to 'bang' their female or male students - this is not a good trend.

[jdlancaster]

It's absolutely unethical... student teacher... police prisoner. .. psychiatrist patient... military officer and young enlisted soldiers. ... all wrong. It's also wrong to assume it's all male teacher female student... it can go the other way... or male-male female- female. I understand that some subordinates may try to goo down that road but it part of the job to say no.... I can't imagine banging students fits into best practices

[jdlancaster]

And to add... ethics aren't there just to protect the student and the teacher... They are there to protect to organization and the profession. To use the most ethically ambiguous example... a university student not in your department... If the community at large to include parents know professors are sleeping with students it damages the university's reputation and enrollment... something you are expected to protect... as is often in your contract or in a code of conduct (though they shouldn't have to give you a book).

Edited December 24, 2015 by jdlancaster

[laobali]

Id never do it, simply because Id always suspect I was being set up.

And in Thailand, probably more likely so than anywhere else.