State of Palestine passports for 2016

[webfact]

State of Palestine passports for 2016



ATHENS: -- On a visit to Greece the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said his administration could start issuing passports under the ‘State of Palestine’ as early as next year.

At the moment the documents are issued under the title of the Palestinian Authority but Abbas said that is no longer acceptable.

Abbas is in Greece on a two day official visit to Athens during which the Greek government is expected to recognise the state of Palestine in a non-binding parliamentary vote.


-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2015-12-22

[Clutch]

Netanyahu, stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

[ehs818]

If "The State of Palestine" begins to issue passport, you can expect more worldwide terrorism, including here in Thailand. Those people have their priorities totally screwed up. Had they spent their time and money on improving things within that sh*t hole, and not wasted time fighting with the Israelis, they could have had a really nice country by this time. But they clearly would rather hate the Israelis more than love their own kids and build a future for them. Sad and sick.

[abrahamzvi]

If "The State of Palestine" begins to issue passport, you can expect more worldwide terrorism, including here in Thailand. Those people have their priorities totally screwed up. Had they spent their time and money on improving things within that sh*t hole, and not wasted time fighting with the Israelis, they could have had a really nice country by this time. But they clearly would rather hate the Israelis more than love their own kids and build a future for them. Sad and sick.

I wonder if you have ever been to the occupied territories. Gaza is the largest prison in the world and the Apartheid system is revived in the West bank, where land is confiscated from Palestinians for Jewish settlement. I decry and condemn any terrorist acts against innocent civilians, anywhere and by whoever against whoever. Having said this, I also condemn the brutal military occupation of the Palestinian territories and the subjugation of millions to such inhuman treatment!

[dexterm]

If "The State of Palestine" begins to issue passport, you can expect more worldwide terrorism, including here in Thailand. Those people have their priorities totally screwed up. Had they spent their time and money on improving things within that sh*t hole, and not wasted time fighting with the Israelis, they could have had a really nice country by this time. But they clearly would rather hate the Israelis more than love their own kids and build a future for them. Sad and sick.

They could have had a very nice country and been issuing passports for the last 100 years if Zionists had not stolen the land from them.

This is another peaceful step of resistance in the right direction, which ought to be applauded. I notice Greece is yet another country this week to recognize the state of Palestine and the OP passport. Excellent news.

Edited December 22, 2015 by dexterm

[arjunadawn]

Those who think this circumlocution around negotiations will lead to a viable Palestinian State in spite of Israeli opposition you miss a very important point- you will then have, in essence, two states at war, in one defined battlespace. It positively increases the chances of greater suffering. Its just IMO. This circuitous legal insurgency may have all the appeal of an underdog getting over on the master but the final outcome will be a set of circumstances that will heighten low/mid intensity conflict, not lessen it.

[Jingthing]

Palestinian Authority residents already can get passports. So now they have a choice of passports? A bit of a patchwork. Will that mean all the old ones are instantly invalid? I wonder how Kuwait Airlines will respond.

The passport thing is a manifestation of a strategy of Palestinian refusal to deal directly with Israel. Good luck with that if that is actually a real path to two states living side by side in peace. Because it obviously isn't.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Jingthing

[Seastallion]

Palestinian Authority residents already can get passports. So now they have a choice of passports? A bit of a patchwork. Will that mean all the old ones are instantly invalid? I wonder how Kuwait Airlines will respond.

The passport thing is a manifestation of a strategy of Palestinian refusal to deal directly with Israel. Good luck with that if that is actually a real path to two states living side by side in peace. Because it obviously isn't.

"Refuse to deal directly with Israel" is a bit of spin.

The fact is, Israel refuses to deal with Palestine unless they drop their insistence that Israel stop settlements! In other words, Israel's participation in talks is dependent on nobody objecting to their further illegal expansion. A ridiculous stance.

It's like a wife-beater agreeing to matrimonial counselling and anger management only on condition that he doesn't have to stop hitting his wife.

[dundee48]

There will be a good few posters on this site applying for dual citizenship no doubt if the amount of terrorist defending is anything to go by.

[uptheos]

Good luck getting on any decent airline.

Next step Palestine International Airport?

Big tourist advertising programme?

[Morch]

Abbas says a lot of things regarding unilateral steps aimed at realizing Palestinian self-determination. Some materialize, and some do not. IMO, this statement got more to do with making waves, keeping the Palestinian issue in the media spot light. Coming over to Greece for yet another recognition vote wouldn't be as dramatic or interesting without some flare.

Issuing new passports is a possibility, but considering they would have to be used going through Israeli controlled border passes, remains to be seen how this bit will pan out.

Granted, this will not contribute much to promoting dialogue with Israel, but then again, not a whole lot of that happening anyway.

[Jingthing]

Yes, and I want to emphasize it's a two way street for actual talks to take place between the sides and the blame for the failure of that is on BOTH sides.

[Morch]

Palestinian Authority residents already can get passports. So now they have a choice of passports? A bit of a patchwork. Will that mean all the old ones are instantly invalid? I wonder how Kuwait Airlines will respond.

The passport thing is a manifestation of a strategy of Palestinian refusal to deal directly with Israel. Good luck with that if that is actually a real path to two states living side by side in peace. Because it obviously isn't.

"Refuse to deal directly with Israel" is a bit of spin.

The fact is, Israel refuses to deal with Palestine unless they drop their insistence that Israel stop settlements! In other words, Israel's participation in talks is dependent on nobody objecting to their further illegal expansion. A ridiculous stance.

It's like a wife-beater agreeing to matrimonial counselling and anger management only on condition that he doesn't have to stop hitting his wife.

The main Palestinian demands for renewal of talks are that ALL Israeli construction related to the illegal settlements will cease, a partial release of Palestinian prisoners, and more recently, a set of unclear propositions regarding the Temple Mount.

Overall, most relevant construction is currently (and for some time now) more to do with existing illegal settlements rather than creating new ones. Netanyahu's government position is that these will continue, as they are not considered new settlements. This is one point where Israel and the USA differ, with the Americans generally rejection such interpretation.

As for release of Palestinian prisoners, there were several previous instances where some formulations were agreed upon. It was only partially carried out as other components of understandings fell apart. The result is lack of clarity as to which prisoners are referred to.

The Temple Mount/Al-Aqsa issue is even more muddied. There are various demands raised, some doable, some already in place, some unrealistic. The thing is that there are parallel dealing with Jordan, and a certain amount of jostling for better position in future stake.

I think that the tone and way things are presented got a lot to do with the chances of them being realized. Defining issues as conditions and demands turns it into a matter of win/lose from the start. Surely there are better diplomatic ways of formulating things, allowing sides to accept without much lose of face and issues vs. their relative hardliners. As this is rarely done, one way of seeing it is that sides are not all that eager to sit down and iron things out. Too much at stake, better to improve position and delay tough decisions. Most of the "conditions" above can be quite easily met - to an extent, and in some cases more as PR. The question is which becomes the essence - the conditions or the dialogue they are supposed to make possible.

Obviously, there will be no mention from certain quarters that the last couple of refusals to meet and negotiate (even on the Temple Mount issue), were by Abbas. Same goes for the Palestinian Authority either unable or unwilling (probably a bit of both) to deliver anything resembling clamping down on Palestinian violence in the West Bank.

[dexterm]

Those who think this circumlocution around negotiations will lead to a viable Palestinian State in spite of Israeli opposition you miss a very important point- you will then have, in essence, two states at war, in one defined battlespace. It positively increases the chances of greater suffering. Its just IMO. This circuitous legal insurgency may have all the appeal of an underdog getting over on the master but the final outcome will be a set of circumstances that will heighten low/mid intensity conflict, not lessen it.

Not necessarily.

Israel has never defined its borders...they seem to keep expanding... whereas the Palestinians are willing to accept the 67 lines. Maybe it will force Israel to state exactly where Israel is, and allow the international community to recognize both.

[Seastallion]

Palestinian Authority residents already can get passports. So now they have a choice of passports? A bit of a patchwork. Will that mean all the old ones are instantly invalid? I wonder how Kuwait Airlines will respond.

The passport thing is a manifestation of a strategy of Palestinian refusal to deal directly with Israel. Good luck with that if that is actually a real path to two states living side by side in peace. Because it obviously isn't.

"Refuse to deal directly with Israel" is a bit of spin.

The fact is, Israel refuses to deal with Palestine unless they drop their insistence that Israel stop settlements! In other words, Israel's participation in talks is dependent on nobody objecting to their further illegal expansion. A ridiculous stance.

It's like a wife-beater agreeing to matrimonial counselling and anger management only on condition that he doesn't have to stop hitting his wife.

The main Palestinian demands for renewal of talks are that ALL Israeli construction related to the illegal settlements will cease, a partial release of Palestinian prisoners, and more recently, a set of unclear propositions regarding the Temple Mount.

Overall, most relevant construction is currently (and for some time now) more to do with existing illegal settlements rather than creating new ones. Netanyahu's government position is that these will continue, as they are not considered new settlements. This is one point where Israel and the USA differ, with the Americans generally rejection such interpretation.

As for release of Palestinian prisoners, there were several previous instances where some formulations were agreed upon. It was only partially carried out as other components of understandings fell apart. The result is lack of clarity as to which prisoners are referred to.

The Temple Mount/Al-Aqsa issue is even more muddied. There are various demands raised, some doable, some already in place, some unrealistic. The thing is that there are parallel dealing with Jordan, and a certain amount of jostling for better position in future stake.

I think that the tone and way things are presented got a lot to do with the chances of them being realized. Defining issues as conditions and demands turns it into a matter of win/lose from the start. Surely there are better diplomatic ways of formulating things, allowing sides to accept without much lose of face and issues vs. their relative hardliners. As this is rarely done, one way of seeing it is that sides are not all that eager to sit down and iron things out. Too much at stake, better to improve position and delay tough decisions. Most of the "conditions" above can be quite easily met - to an extent, and in some cases more as PR. The question is which becomes the essence - the conditions or the dialogue they are supposed to make possible.

Obviously, there will be no mention from certain quarters that the last couple of refusals to meet and negotiate (even on the Temple Mount issue), were by Abbas. Same goes for the Palestinian Authority either unable or unwilling (probably a bit of both) to deliver anything resembling clamping down on Palestinian violence in the West Bank.

ALL construction should be halted! It's a perfectly reasonable demand for negotiations to commence or continue.

How many hectares was it that were taken over a week or two after the last ceasefire following the 2014 Gaza slaughter? Was it 40 or 400? I forget. How many Palestinians lost their homes and/or gardens to make way for that? Was it 300? Expanding the illegal settlements, and spinning it as "not a new settlement" is diversionary and not realistic. Follow that rationale, and eventually the Euphrates to the Mediterranean could be just an extension of the existing settlements.

I agree that the question of prisoners is debatable. However, there is no doubt that many prisoners Israel holds are political prisoners or held for no real crime. Of course they should be released, and they should not even be a bargaining chip. Effectively, they are hostages. Prisoners of war should be released, too. As for criminals, well, as we have seen Israel can release criminals when it wants something, so do they want peace or not? This is the central question.

Abbas is in a very difficult position. He needs to stand firm on solid principles such as demanding a cessation of settlement expansion and requiring guarantees regarding Al Aqsa, but is vilified by Israel apologists when he does so stand firm. To say that he is refusing to talk is spinning things away from the reality in an attempt to blame him.

He has no choice but to follow a unilateral approach, and Palestinian passports, along with UN and ICC manouvres are the right way to do it. If Israel doesn't get serious about peace soon, it will really be between a rock and a hard place.

[Ulysses G.]

Isael has never defined its borders...they seem to keep expanding... whereas the Palestinians are willing to accept the 67 lines.

This is nonsense - as you well know. Hamas are not willing to recognize Israel - under any circumstances - and they refuse to renounce their charter which calls for the destruction of Israel and genocide of the Jewish people.

[dexterm]

Isael has never defined its borders...they seem to keep expanding... whereas the Palestinians are willing to accept the 67 lines.

This is nonsense - as you well know. Hamas are not willing to recognize Israel - under any circumstances - and they refuse to renounce their charter which calls for the destruction of Israel and genocide of the Jewish people.

This is your old chestnut debunked many times before. Do a forum search if you are interested in replies to your red herring.

In that Israel won't define its own borders it is very difficult for anyone to recognize Israel. Where do you start....the 47 Mandate lines, the 48 self declared land grab lines, the 67 ceasefire lines, the Wall (twice the length of the 67 lines), or the Jordan River?

Edited December 23, 2015 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

In that Israel won't define its own borders it is very difficult for anyone to recognize Israel.

You have just admitted that I am right, but at least you came up with a new - but rather silly - excuse why.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

In that Israel won't define its own borders it is very difficult for anyone to recognize Israel.

You have just admitted that I am right, but at least you came up with a new - but rather silly - excuse why.

Nonsense.

Please can you tell us where Israel's borders are, so that the whole world can recognize them. It will give Palestinians a chance to know where their state is too.

Edited December 23, 2015 by dexterm

[Scott]

I strongly suggest you stick to the issue of issuing passports and the implications.

[dexterm]

The way things are headed it looks like the conflict will end in a one state solution encompassing historic 1922 Mandated Palestine. How about citizens of Israelistine hold Israeli or Palestinian passports in a confederated state? Equal but separate citizenship. But with people free to live, work, and worship wherever they like.

It will de facto probably happen one day if both states were admitted to the EU.

[Seastallion]

Forgive my lack of geography.....in this case because it is so ambiguous. If Palestinians have their own passports, do they actually have to travel through (defined) Israeli borders before they can reach the outside world? Doesn't the West Bank border Jordan? Why can't a Palestinian passport holder enter Jordan without Israeli consent? Why couldn't a Palestinian enter Egypt?

How about airspace? Could a Palestinian passport holder fly out on his home-made microlight and enter a neighbouring country?

If not...why not? Are the Palestinians prisoners?

[Morch]

The way things are headed it looks like the conflict will end in a one state solution encompassing historic 1922 Mandated Palestine. How about citizens of Israelistine hold Israeli or Palestinian passports in a confederated state? Equal but separate citizenship. But with people free to live, work, and worship wherever they like.

It will de facto probably happen one day if both states were admitted to the EU.

There ain't going to be no one-state solution anytime soon. There is no telling how such a hypothetical eventuality will pan out. Waiving non-existent and unlikely EU membership is an illusion. So other than using the topic as a platform to air the usual agenda, the post above does not have any bearing on the topic.

To put things in perspective, not a single Palestinian State passport been issued, and remains to be seen if any will be. The main effect, as of now, is in the realm of PR, not to say propaganda.

[Morch]

Forgive my lack of geography.....in this case because it is so ambiguous. If Palestinians have their own passports, do they actually have to travel through (defined) Israeli borders before they can reach the outside world? Doesn't the West Bank border Jordan? Why can't a Palestinian passport holder enter Jordan without Israeli consent? Why couldn't a Palestinian enter Egypt?

How about airspace? Could a Palestinian passport holder fly out on his home-made microlight and enter a neighbouring country?

If not...why not? Are the Palestinians prisoners?

One would have imagined that prolifically posting on related issues, you'd actually have a clue. Short of that, most of your queries were either thoroughly discussed on many a topic, or are rather easily found on the internet.

Israel is the sovereign and controls border passes with Jordan. Hence, Palestinian passports will need to be recognized and approved by Israel, in order to be used at said border passes. The West Bank is not a country, nor a state, but a geographical designation. If and when the Palestinian State becomes a reality, things might change some.

Egypt exercises a tight control over passage of Palestinians through the border pass in the Gaza Strip. The Gaza Strip side is not controlled by Israel. Whether Egypt will acknowledge such hypothetical passports remains to be seen. As long as the current Egyptian policy is maintained, the suggested new passports will be irrelevant.

There is no Palestinian airspace, it is controlled by Israel. Not much likelihood of any major changes there anytime soon, even if an agreement was to be reached tomorrow. A Palestinian attempting such a a flight will be shot out of the sky, if detected (either by the Israelis or by the Jordanians). As far as I am aware, crossing borders with microlights etc. is not normally acceptable in most parts of the world. This got nothing to do with having a State of Palestine passport.

The Palestinian live under Israeli occupation and military rule. It ain't fair, but it is what it is.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

[Radar501]

I can just see it..............

Jacob Cohen from Tel Aviv wishes to enter Palestine at the border checkpoint. An immigration official is checking his documentation and asks, "Occupation?"

Mr Cohen replies, "No, just a holiday."

[dexterm]

The Palestinians have come a long way since Golda Meir infamously said:"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people"....herself an llegal immigrant to Palestine born in the Ukraine travelling on a US passport. Now the Palestinians will have passports.

In 2015 over 70% of the world's countries recognize the State of Palestine, the Palestinian flag is flying outside the UN, and now Palestinian passports will be issued. All peaceful steps in the right direction. Slow progress, but facts on the ground which seems to be the norm in this part of the world.Time is on the side of the Palestinians.

Shalom and Merry Christmas

Edited December 24, 2015 by dexterm