Koh Tao: Suspects found guilty of murdering British backpackers

[MrTee]

I know exactly what an IMEI..

Are you that blinded by your own eagerness to see these 2 men convicted that you cannot even read my post?

"I understand that some iPhones have the IMEI in different locations on the phone.. where exactly was the IMEI taken from in this phone."

jog on.

It seems that it was an i-4 so either from the Sim tray or the back of the phone. When the Miller's retrieved it , this could have been from the box or possibly the original purchase receipt.

It is hard to say whether or not the prosecutors did actually get the confirmation from the UK embassy or not but it did become clear that it could not be submitted in court because of this ridiculous business that they were not allowed to do so because if it would lead to a death penalty....

Regardless it was resubmitted - this time through the Thai Embassy in the UK.

So are you now you are going to say that the Thai Embassy officials can't be trusted or that they were bribed by a village headman??

And I would take it that the defense lawyers would have had a good look at the evidence. Or do you believe that they are incompetent as well - like every other Thai??

The millers got the number from Davids computer,

Where did the police get it from?

And is there anything to to support it like a photo or anything?

[dennis123]

Death sentence for two guys who most likely didn't commit any crime, only in Thailand of course, the longer I stay here the more I start to hate this country, soon I'm out.

[aslimversgwm]

The Miller family have been expertly manipulated by the Thai police.

It wouldn't be hard. They come from Jersey, a small island. They are decent, law-abiding people. They are conditioned to put their trust in authority. They can't speak Thai. Their interpreted information will come from police sources. Thais can be charming, flattering and sycophantic in the extreme if required. The Miller family have been under unimaginable stress and grief.

exactly and very well presented

You post very well and I always respect your professional thoughts on this case but my personal opinion is that statement went over and beyond what you would expect from persons in that situation..I cannot understand how you would feel standing there after the judgement but it seemed to me it went over board to absolve the RTP of any incompetence or failures. I'm sorry but that just doesn't ring true.. I really don't know what I think about the possible compliance of the Embassy etc but just something doesn't sit right in the tone of that statement...It was very assertive in tone and while I accept they will have been fed a watered down version of the true happenings it still doesn't sit right.. As I said I understand your logic and I agree they have more than a right to say what they want but just something really doesn't feel right about the content and tone of it...My opinion for what it's worth Smedly and I so respect yours...

As the leader of a specialist group here in Chiang Mai I have been actively publicising this case to my group's membership, asking them to support the defence team's funding and care of the boys whilst in custody. The news of the verdict greatly shocked me and then statement by the brother of one of the victims disturbed me even more.

As Nigeone implies: something just doesn't add up. Has he seen something no-one reporting the case has seen - perhaps something in the UK's Metropolitan Police report, which they've refused to publish publicly or the UK Coroner's report, yet to be published publicly? I can think of no other logical explanation for making such a strong statement of support for the verdict, but he certainly needs to explain himself in view of all that has been publicised and reported by many reliable media sources who've followed the case.

[somo]

As I understand it the prosecution claims that the defendants seamen was found in the murdered woman but this cannot be confirmed as samples have been rather mysteriously used up. Surely the UK coroner can confirm or deny this rather important point. If not then it just remains an assertion nothing more. Evidence without some independent confirmation is nothing more than an unsubstantiated accusation.

[catsanddogs]

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Thai foreign minister warns media not to dig into "suspicious" aspects of Koh Tao murder probe. http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/media-told-not-to-revive-doubtful-issues-regarding-the-murder-of-british-backpackers-in-koh-tao … via @RichardBarrow

[than]

It's fun to see that this forum is full of lawyers, judges and private detective

[catsanddogs]

He (the foreign minister) said that British police who were previously involved in examining the case were satisfied with the performance of the Thai police and had informed the victims’ relatives who have expressed their recognition and satisfaction with the Thai justice system.

There's the answer to David Miller's brothers public statement then.

The British police were not involved in examining the case we have been told. We've been told they simply observed. Maybe it's just another lie in the mix. Not proud to be British at the moment.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/media-told-not-to-revive-doubtful-issues-regarding-the-murder-of-british-backpackers-in-koh-tao

[DiscoDan]

You are the on spreading misinformation all samples were replicated, even if they produced original sperm you lot would of said the police must have given the B2 some hand relief

There are so many posts to wade through here I would like to ask a simple question to get something clear.

Has any DNA belongin

If that is the case then the police findings can also be replicated but they have not been and seemingly cannot be, Without replication the forensics are meaningless. That's why I feel so confused. The police say they have the forensic evidence but when others say they want to see it there is nothing there. If they really had it then the case would be conclusive which it, in many peoples minds, is not.

I can't help feeling that if the police had such a watertight case as they claim they would not have lost all the evidence.

For that alone heads should roll.

Regarding Hannah's clothes even if the B2s dna was found on it, it wouldn't prove they had killed her it just means they came into contact with her, the police has all the DNA needed when they found the semen in Hannah, what does a cig butt with there dna prove ? nothing

If the dna is forged why when the police were allegedly torturing ZL with bags over his didn't they put the hoe handle in his hand ? easy case closed

Also the UK police in house forensics are also not ISO or international standard.

and even if they were ISO standard and all there paperwork was perfect and the graphs it could all still be fake all you need is there dna.

The most important dna that needed to be tested was found in Hannah, and the defense did a u turn and said they didn't need to test it.

[swerver]

This Koh Tao court case reminds me of the Cherry Duncan murder some twenty years ago when the BKK boys in khaki did hung out to dry a couple of laborers that were working on a construction site near the spot were the lifeless body of the girl was found.

Lucky in some sort of way the boys were not committed to the dead penalty, they were put in jail.

Jo Duncan, the father of the girl did not go along with the verdict pf the laborers and kept pursuing the case for a couple a years and in the end unearthed that there was a Thai politician involved who was having an affair with the girl and whose girlfriend from a well to do Thai business family in her jalousie had hired a Thai professional killer for hire who killed the girl.

The girl's father forced the court to open the case again and in the end the laborers who had been wrongly convicted and jailed were exonerated of the crime and set free, except that on of them had died in jail and the other was a physical wreck from living in jail for which he was given by the Thai Justice system a handful of money and send on his way.

In this Koh Tao case there are two adult westerners killed by two scrawny Burmese who didn't even have a gun and the two adult westerners couldn't even defend themselves. Sounds screwy, there must be aa lot more to this case the public has not been told about, same as in the Cherry Duncan murder case. A couple nobodies hung out to dry, case closed, next case. Except that in this case they got the dead sentence dead people don't talk. Thai justice system are fast learners, from the Americans of course, were there always is a gun fight in which the perpetrators are blown away, dead people don't talk. San Bernardino, California, most recent case.

[MrTee]

The most important dna that needed to be tested was found in Hannah, and the defense did a u turn and said they didn't need to test it.

The most important aspect of this case, yet there is no chain of custody, there are no methodologies reported, there is no data, there is no record of quantification process, there are no electropherograms, the only A4 report has corrections on it and an incorrect date, the evidence has been lost\all used up\gone walkies! The evidence is unreliable. It is meaningless.

There is no proof that the DNA tested came from an alien or whether it was extracted from a coconut. no chain of custody!

If "sperm" was found in Hannah, unless these Men are both jaffas, then you'd expect there to be ample for 1000 tests. Where is it now?

[asiamaster]

Hey Mr Asia if you read Smedley's post 1082, you will learn that it was the judge who disallowed Dr Taupin, not the defense, so much false info from " Lets hang the Burmese" brigade.

For example : Rapists. Hannah was not raped.

For example : Serial Killers. The B2 have no prior convictions.

For example: The phone, the RTP had David's phone all along right from the beginning.

and so on and so on.

Hey Mr. Glenmohr

If you read discodan's post no 1069 you will learn that the decision that Dr. Taupin should not testify was made by the defence

Jane Taupin, a renowned Australian forensic scientist brought in by the defence team, questioned the plausibility of working this quickly, saying extracting DNA from mixed samples was difficult and time-consuming.

Ms Taupin was not allowed to testify, one of several inexplicable decisions by the defence, but she highlighted several important aspects of DNA testing which neither the defence team, the police, nor the judges appeared to understand.

[glenmohr]

The whole story is just BS. The real killers are still on that Island.

There are rumours going around that the perps are now outside of Thailand for now. There will be an ongoing backlash therefore they better be living pretty quietly.

[glenmohr]

Koh Tao Murders: Myanmar Journalists Urge Thai Press to ‘Reveal the Truth’

By Teeranai Charuvastra

Staff Reporter

A van carrying Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo leaves Samui prison for Nakhon Si Thammarat prison Saturday morning.

BANGKOK — The Myanmar Journalists Association is urging its Thai counterpart to work together and “reveal the truth” behind the conviction of two Myanmar men for the killings of two British backpackers in southern Thailand last year.

In its open letter addressed to the Thai Journalist Association, the Myanmar media group said justice will prevail if media from the two nations work together in the coverage of the case, which has drawn intense scrutiny from the public.

“We do believe that our close cooperation in seeking justice after revealing the truth behind this controversial case will further promote the existing friendship not only between our two journalist associations but also between the peoples of our two countries,” the statement read, without mentioning any specifics.

On Thursday Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, two Myanmar men who were bar workers on Tao island, were found guilty of killing British tourists David Miller and Hannah Witheridge on Sept. 15, 2014. They were also convicted of raping Witheridge.

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1451111886

-- Khaosod English 2015-12-26

What's this? is it to be 'trial by media' now. Someone tell them that what they print will have no influence on the proceedings to come and that they are wasting ink.

It so happens Lucky that a couple of hard working and honest journalists brought down a President of the world's most powerful country. Can see no reason why some hard working honest journalists cannot cope with helping to tame a few powerful locals in the Gulf of Thailand.

[DiscoDan]

I will ask you again if she was not raped how did there semen end up inside her ?

most serial killers are necrophiliacs this is why no one heard anything and also explains no sign of rape she would have been dead before alll those awful things happened to her.

The police could have had Davids phone all along but the B2 confessed to giving there friends the phone who then destroyed it because they thought it was connected to the murders.

What is wrong with you?

Nothing why do ask ?

[glenmohr]

There are so many posts to wade through here I would like to ask a simple question to get something clear.

Has any DNA belonging to the B2 been found on or in either of the murdered people? The UK examination said there was no sign of rape but what of foreign DNA?

Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere but just too many posts to check.

Yes It was the DNA found in Hannah, DNA matched both rapists. also the defense were offered to retest it but turned it down instead focusing on the hoe that wasn't even part of the prosecutions case.

Hang on a minute Disco Dan: " rapists"?? the Norfolk coroner decided in the interests of justice to release " We found no evidence on the body that Hannah was raped"

the Norfolk coroner decided in the interests of justice to release " We found no evidence on the body that Hannah was raped" - please provide a link to that remark as it's extremely significant.

Did not save it as some months ago, however the info is repeated under Sara Yuen column in the Great Yarmouth Mercury news paper dated 24 th Sept, that report also confirms there were no bite marks on her body which directly contradicts the Thai pathologist who stated there bite marks. By the time the body reached her native Norwich the bite marks had mysteriously disappeared. A bit unusual. It is virtually unheard of for bruising to disappear from a lifeless body.

[glenmohr]

There are so many posts to wade through here I would like to ask a simple question to get something clear.

Has any DNA belonging to the B2 been found on or in either of the murdered people? The UK examination said there was no sign of rape but what of foreign DNA?

Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere but just too many posts to check.

Yes It was the DNA found in Hannah, DNA matched both rapists. also the defense were offered to retest it but turned it down instead focusing on the hoe that wasn't even part of the prosecutions case.

Hang on a minute Disco Dan: " rapists"?? the Norfolk coroner decided in the interests of justice to release " We found no evidence on the body that Hannah was raped"

So did the thai autopsy maybe you want to explain how there semen ended up inside the victim?

Cannot explain that DD because the Thai police said the B 2 used a condom. Anyway, stop calling them rapists, there was no rape.

[IslandLover]

catsanddogs, on 26 Dec 2015 - 16:35, said:

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Andrew RC MarshallVerified account‏@Journotopia

Thai foreign minister warns media not to dig into "suspicious" aspects of Koh Tao murder probe. http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/media-told-not-to-revive-doubtful-issues-regarding-the-murder-of-british-backpackers-in-koh-tao … via @RichardBarrow

Unbelievable! Anyway, something is coming in the New Year .......

Edited December 26, 2015 by IslandLover

[DiscoDan]

Did not save it as some months ago, however the info is repeated under Sara Yuen column in the Great Yarmouth Mercury news paper dated 24 th Sept, that report also confirms there were no bite marks on her body which directly contradicts the Thai pathologist who stated there bite marks. By the time the body reached her native Norwich the bite marks had mysteriously disappeared. A bit unusual. It is virtually unheard of for bruising to disappear from a lifeless body.

Correct no bite marks. A dead body needs to be embalmed before its allowed on a plane, and embalming washes out bite marks.

[Mises]

As the leader of a specialist group here in Chiang Mai I have been actively publicising this case to my group's membership, asking them to support the defence team's funding and care of the boys whilst in custody. The news of the verdict greatly shocked me and then statement by the brother of one of the victims disturbed me even more.

As Nigeone implies: something just doesn't add up. Has he seen something no-one reporting the case has seen - perhaps something in the UK's Metropolitan Police report, which they've refused to publish publicly or the UK Coroner's report, yet to be published publicly? I can think of no other logical explanation for making such a strong statement of support for the verdict, but he certainly needs to explain himself in view of all that has been publicised and reported by many reliable media sources who've followed the case.

Michael Miller appears to be both misinformed and ill-informed. His statement: He [David] was hacked down from behind dragged into the sea and left to die rather gives this away. It seems Michael Miller does not know about the wounds on David's front shoulder and neck. Have they done another autopsy in Guernsey?

And what was Hannah doing while the B2 dragged David to the water? Waiting quietly? Or slowly moving 20m away and lying down between two rocks with her legs in the water ready to be raped and bludgeoned? Hannah was already dead or unconscious when bludgeoned. You cannot hit a moving target dead centre with a heavy hoe. And she would have defended herself with her hands. She was not held down, how do you hold someone whilst another strikes her face with a hoe without being in the way and how do you hold their head straight? In any event she could not have been held down from the side as the rocks are too close.

Like many others have said, I have no idea whether the B2 were involved but the official story just does not pass muster.

Why was David naked apart from one sock whilst Hannah was fully clothed (albeit in disarray) apart from her panties?

Why was Hannah's body arranged in that pose?

What happened to the condom found with supposedly Hannah's DNA on the outside and no DNA on the inside?

What happened to Hannah's clothes?

What happened to the shoe found at the scene? Whose was it? It was not either of the B2's. I recall there was also mention of some black trousers found at the scene.

Why did the Thai authorities initially say there was no sign of Hannah having been raped? A view later confirmed by the British Autopsy.

[DiscoDan]

Government Press release is now out .

[glenmohr]

The Miller family have been expertly manipulated by the Thai police.

It wouldn't be hard. They come from Jersey, a small island. They are decent, law-abiding people. They are conditioned to put their trust in authority. They can't speak Thai. Their interpreted information will come from police sources. Thais can be charming, flattering and sycophantic in the extreme if required. The Miller family have been under unimaginable stress and grief.

exactly and very well presented

You post very well and I always respect your professional thoughts on this case but my personal opinion is that statement went over and beyond what you would expect from persons in that situation..I cannot understand how you would feel standing there after the judgement but it seemed to me it went over board to absolve the RTP of any incompetence or failures. I'm sorry but that just doesn't ring true.. I really don't know what I think about the possible compliance of the Embassy etc but just something doesn't sit right in the tone of that statement...It was very assertive in tone and while I accept they will have been fed a watered down version of the true happenings it still doesn't sit right.. As I said I understand your logic and I agree they have more than a right to say what they want but just something really doesn't feel right about the content and tone of it...My opinion for what it's worth Smedly and I so respect yours...

As the leader of a specialist group here in Chiang Mai I have been actively publicising this case to my group's membership, asking them to support the defence team's funding and care of the boys whilst in custody. The news of the verdict greatly shocked me and then statement by the brother of one of the victims disturbed me even more.

As Nigeone implies: something just doesn't add up. Has he seen something no-one reporting the case has seen - perhaps something in the UK's Metropolitan Police report, which they've refused to publish publicly or the UK Coroner's report, yet to be published publicly? I can think of no other logical explanation for making such a strong statement of support for the verdict, but he certainly needs to explain himself in view of all that has been publicised and reported by many reliable media sources who've followed the case.

If the millers had secret info from authorities in the UK, then the Witheridge family will be on the same level, but the Witheridge family statement takes a different tack and does not suggest the sharing of any unpublished info. It is likely the Miller statement was drafted/ composed by a sophisticated member of the RTP. I was supsicious when the the statement was down on paper as soon as the the judgement was delivered. Pre arranged it would seem. The two bereaved families do not seem to be on the same page at present.

[kcirtapyelrah]

Anyone who has the slightest understanding of the physical ability and the effort that it would have taken to restrain a physically fit woman in danger of losing her life and to overcome a giant of a man like David faced with the same prospect and cant except that they couldnt have done it, there must be something wrong with you. One of them would have had to restrain Anna, while the other would have had to have taken David out, two little wimps, come to you senses, under the circumstances it would have been physically impossible. The whole scene was staged to look the way it did, the hoe left to be conveniently found, the condom left to make it look as if they were in the act of sexual activity. as I stated over a year ago, they werent killed on the beach and two little guys didn't do it.

[glenmohr]

You are the on spreading misinformation all samples were replicated, even if they produced original sperm you lot would of said the police must have given the B2 some hand relief

There are so many posts to wade through here I would like to ask a simple question to get something clear.

Has any DNA belongin

If that is the case then the police findings can also be replicated but they have not been and seemingly cannot be, Without replication the forensics are meaningless. That's why I feel so confused. The police say they have the forensic evidence but when others say they want to see it there is nothing there. If they really had it then the case would be conclusive which it, in many peoples minds, is not.

I can't help feeling that if the police had such a watertight case as they claim they would not have lost all the evidence.

For that alone heads should roll.

Regarding Hannah's clothes even if the B2s dna was found on it, it wouldn't prove they had killed her it just means they came into contact with her, the police has all the DNA needed when they found the semen in Hannah, what does a cig butt with there dna prove ? nothing

If the dna is forged why when the police were allegedly torturing ZL with bags over his didn't they put the hoe handle in his hand ? easy case closed

Also the UK police in house forensics are also not ISO or international standard.

and even if they were ISO standard and all there paperwork was perfect and the graphs it could all still be fake all you need is there dna.

The most important dna that needed to be tested was found in Hannah, and the defense did a u turn and said they didn't need to test it.

Wrong the defense did need to retest the DNA, however because there was no chain of custody it was no longer practical, the retesting could have been anyone's DNA, even yours or mine who knows. So no retest was apropriate, no chain of custody.

[glenmohr]

I did not make any mistake, Dr Taupin was to give testimony at the trial and was refused by the judges, she is a well respected forensic expert, she was called as a witness by the defence but I see her simply as an expert telling it as it is, no deflections untruths or lies - a spade is a spade

I already corrected that but you were also stating that Porthip did not testify which is not correct - she was even asked to do the DNA testing on the hoe and testified in court.

Also Dr. Taupin was only CONSIDERED to be called by the defense but it was the defense that decided not to let her take the stand, not the prosecution.

Hey Mr Asia if you read Smedley's post 1082, you will learn that it was the judge who disallowed Dr Taupin, not the defense, so much false info from " Lets hang the Burmese" brigade.

For example : Rapists. Hannah was not raped.

For example : Serial Killers. The B2 have no prior convictions.

For example: The phone, the RTP had David's phone all along right from the beginning.

and so on and so on.

I will ask you again if she was not raped how did there semen end up inside her ?

most serial killers are necrophiliacs this is why no one heard anything and also explains no sign of rape she would have been dead before alll those awful things happened to her.

The police could have had Davids phone all along but the B2 confessed to giving there friends the phone who then destroyed it because they thought it was connected to the murders.

What you say about serial killers may be right. However the B2 had no previous convictions which to an average person would mean that they are not serial killers. The RTP announced at the time of the arrests the B2 had no criminal records. If they were the sort of people you allege then there would be dozens of corpses all over Koh Tao because the B2 had been working there for some time. Instead there are only a handful of unexplained deaths locally, plus assisted suicides, and only one was female. hardly the work of necrophiles.

[Nigeone]

catsanddogs, on 26 Dec 2015 - 16:35, said:

45]

User Actions FollowAndrew RC MarshallVerified account‏@Journotopia

Thai foreign minister warns media not to dig into "suspicious" aspects of Koh Tao murder probe. http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/media-told-not-to-revive-doubtful-issues-regarding-the-murder-of-british-backpackers-in-koh-tao via @RichardBarrow

Unbelievable! Anyway, something is coming in the New Year .......

I hope so as I believe this isn't over and for sure people are going to talk !! Or the UK media will sort it...I truly believe justice will be done

[rudy h]

Such a sham job. These poor boys did not need a defense team, they needed a political team like the one from the Ferrari driving red bull heir because it's not about what you know, it is who you know in Thailand. Money has nothing to with it, ask Mr Billionaire.

There was absolutely no "convincing" motive for the b2 to get so riled up for the raping, defiling, and double murder.

The b2 had been on the island for about 2 years, surely they had witnessed this behavior before and on this tragic night they decided to act? It does not add up.

Who had the motive to be pissed off at Hannah? That person or persons had the power to recruit accomplices and was able to skew the investigation. A policeman, a politician, someone in power on the island?

If your street wise look at the photo of the uncle. Why would he chase Sean and threaten violence?

If the good General can't control a little island, the future of Thailand is surely doomed when the next great moment of time comes to pass for Thailand.

[balo]

Can moderator remove the thai link above asap ? It got nothing to do with this case and be warned about graphic images.

[B166ER]

....gosh golly gee wizz batman....dj on certain island wears "Blonde" wig when performing....looses phone in the kefluffle....Asia's not known for a lot of "Blondies" running around....could there be some "dot connecting" here....if certain Peps were involved as oh...99.3% of peps on this forum believe....how many in THAT group would actually have Blonde hair....Occam's razor Pheuxn.....

Edited December 26, 2015 by B166ER

[SiSePuede419]

"Anyway, something is coming in the New Year"

True. But remember this year was last year's 'New Year'.

Personally, I am internally optimistic and externally pessimistic.

I was right in 1987, 2001 and 2008.

And I'll be right again in the future, 555.

[iReason]

"The foreign minister warned the media to not dig into suspicious issues in the police investigation of the murder case"

Interesting choice of words.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/media-told-not-to-revive-doubtful-issues-regarding-the-murder-of-british-backpackers-in-koh-tao