DHL price gouging? Not really (at least not this time).

[Crossy]

General forum wisdom (which I subscribe to) is to never use any of the couriers due to excessive duty / tax / fees, DHL seems to get a particularly bad rep.

I ordered some items from aliExpress which had DHL as the best shipping option.

Anyway, I decided to bite the bullet as the item in question (a gearbox) should be duty exempt under the Thai / China free trade agreement.

All-in (CIF) cost was $126.41 including DHL shipping.

Item arrived just before lunch yesterday (driver was given a mince pie by Wifey).

Amount to pay ... 460 Baht ($13), about 10% of CIF, consisting of 7% VAT and a 3% "clearance fee", IMHO not excessive in the big scheme of things.

If I had used the alternative shipping method (EMS) which would have cost an extra $11, it may have got through. But equally it may still have attracted the same VAT on the (larger) CIF cost, worth the risk for a < $2 saving?

I agree, customs fees are a rip-off generally, charging duty and VAT on the freight and insurance cost is just wrong (but global practice).

You can check how much you're going to get stung for here http://igtf.customs.go.th/igtf/en/main_frame.jsp if you have the Tariff Code for your item (ask the seller, the gearbox was 84834090) it makes searching easier and more accurate. Make sure you select the appropriate option from the Duty Reduction drop-down.

EDIT Food supplements (Tariff Code 2106.90.70 ) which many members have customs issues with will attract a base rate of 60% of CIF + VAT on the CIF. Could be nearly 100% of the item cost

[CharlieH]

Great info and always good to get more info and other peoples experiences.

[ezzra]

In Thailand, when you buy stuff on line, it's pretty much a crap shoot what will you have to pay

when it's arrived, and sending items with currier service is a sure guarantee that you will be

charge for all sorts of taxes and levies, case in point when I have ordered some harmless

vitamins from Iherb to be sent by currier, but when they arrived I was asked to provide an

importer license and a doctor script authorizing the use of vitamins.. ludicrous...

ended up sending it back to the sate and have it resent to another country....

[CWMcMurray]

It's also important to understand that just because goods ordered from China and goods ship from China, it does NOT automatically mean you are going to receive any duty reduction

Things to remember about ASEAN/China FTA---

1. You would need to receive a special certificate of origin from the Chinese shipper called a 'Form E'(this means the Chinese government has inspected the shipper and ensures that at least min amount of local Chinese content is included in the manufacturing of the goods to meet FTA requirement)

2. The form E must be issued exactly correct, all details must be completely correct and matching with shipper's invoice and the air way bill Or bill of lading (if even 1 letter or punctuation difference or if even 1 penny difference in value on the invoice or description not exactly matching invoice of if HS code is not correct-- then can not be used)

3. If form E is not exactly correct , you would need to have the shipper re-issue correctly and send original to you in Thailand, as must be original Form E for customs processing.

4. So in this case, can either wait until correct docs all received and then clear (all the while storage charges accruing) or you can clear paying all duties and vat with putting notice in customs system that you will later get Form E and then request a refund (takes months to get get funds back from revenue department)

5. Also in order to use FORM E , you must use formal customs clearance. This is NOT the normal bulk clearance that courier companies like DHL or UPS or FEDEX use for most shipments. (Unless shipment flagged by customs for formal clearance - usually can happen if goods high value or larger size or controlled commodity that normally require special import permit for clearance)

You would need to tell the courier company in advance (contact them once you have tracking number before shipment arrives)

So just remember the above before you think someone is trying to rip you off---

[Crossy]

Interesting stuff CW.

Do you know if there's a value below which the Form-E rigmarole is not / less rigorously applied?

I've had two shipments recently from China, the DHL one I quoted and one via TNT with a value of just over $1000. Both had duty exempt tariff codes under the FTA, neither had a Form-E (that I am aware of), neither attracted anything more than the VAT plus a clearing fee.

[CWMcMurray]

Interesting stuff CW.

Do you know if there's a value below which the Form-E rigmarole is not / less rigorously applied?

I've had two shipments recently from China, the DHL one I quoted and one via TNT with a value of just over $1000. Both had duty exempt tariff codes under the FTA, neither had a Form-E, neither attracted anything more than the VAT plus a clearing fee.

If looking to receive duty reduction under ASEAN / China FTA, then is required even for lower valued items

Although there are a number of HS codes under which the normal general duty rate is already 0%, so it could be vary we'll be the case in the example mentioned above , that duty already 0%

Would need more details to know for sure

[CWMcMurray]

Just for a bit more info on why the Form is required ...

As the goal of the FTA is to promote the trade of goods manufactured in the countries that are members of the FTA

It is not just shipped from China...

Otherwise, you could by goods from any country in the world and then just arrange for a transshipment in Any Chinese port... And get the BL TO SHOW origin port in China

Then get duty reduction...

As you can imagine, that would not be the intent of any such FTAs

[Crossy]

The unit in question is definitely manufactured in China and was shipped with a tariff code of 84834090 (gearbox) which according to the Thai customs website I linked to has a basic duty of 30%.

[TheCruncher]

The unit in question is definitely manufactured in China and was shipped with a tariff code of 84834090 (gearbox) which according to the Thai customs website I linked to has a basic duty of 30%.

Probably you had your reasons to ship it with DHL and use official clearing documents, but depending on the size of the item which I assume is small, in my opinion with EMS it had arrived below the radar.

[CWMcMurray]

Also when looking at the first page of tariff website, that is the ceiling rate that shows, not the actual rate

Actual current rate is under General rate

Which for the HS CODE advised is either 5% or 0% depending on further details of the cargo

[Crossy]

Also when looking at the first page of tariff website, that is the ceiling rate that shows, not the actual rate

Actual current rate is under General rate

Which for the HS CODE advised is either 5% or 0% depending on further details of the cargo

That makes things clearer, although I don't appear to have been charged any duty at all, just VAT.

To those wondering why I chose to use DHL, if you read my OP you'll see that EMS was $11 more expensive with the possibility of still getting hit up for duty. My reasoning may have been flawed going by CW's information but all has turned out OK. Item is quite small (about 15cm on a side) but heavy (it's a gearbox).

The general advice to avoid the couriers if possible still stands.

[elgenon]

Why give the driver a mince pie? I thought you were happy with the service. 555555

[NoshowJones]

In Thailand, when you buy stuff on line, it's pretty much a crap shoot what will you have to pay

when it's arrived, and sending items with currier service is a sure guarantee that you will be

charge for all sorts of taxes and levies, case in point when I have ordered some harmless

vitamins from Iherb to be sent by currier, but when they arrived I was asked to provide an

importer license and a doctor script authorizing the use of vitamins.. ludicrous...

ended up sending it back to the sate and have it resent to another country....

I have had many things shipped to Thailand from both the UK and the US, among them, motorcycle gear, trainers, etc,etc, and only once was I charged, it was around 800Bt, and I cannot remember what it was for, I just paid it.

[4evermaat]

Can someone provide a photo or screenshot of where on the waybill or shipping label the tariff code is normally placed?

[Jeffrey346]

You did well Crossy What bothers me is the additional fee charged by DHL to clear customs. As far as I know it only exists here in Thailand and is not mentioned at all on the DHL website..

http://www.dhl.com/en/express/customs_support/duties_taxes/duties_taxes_receivers.html

[DonaldBattles]

Note that the FTA with China only covers fresh fruits and vegetables. The ASEAN AEC does not go into effect until after Jan. 1. You may rest assured that thai customs will continue to impose non tariff barriers to keep their pockets full. Customs is a lot like the law it is whatever they make it today. Courier company employees are the ones who charge you and then pocket the money. Most of the people up country are agents for courier companies. Keep thinking 100% including freight and you will be OK.

[thailandstupidlife]

You have just been lucky or you definitively do not live in the same Thailand as us...

[Crossy]

Can someone provide a photo or screenshot of where on the waybill or shipping label the tariff code is normally placed?

There are as many airwaybill formats as there are shippers. Google is your friend for examples, but the tariff code is usually part of the item description, either with an entry of its own or in with the written description itself.

EDIT I suspect that many of the duty issues are caused by NOT including a tariff code in the description (how many of us would know where to look?), leaving it wide open for the authorities to make it up as they go along. I've had this problem in the past with courier shipments to Europe so it's not purely a Thailand problem.

You have just been lucky or you definitively do not live in the same Thailand as us...

I sometimes think the same, we see very few of the issues that seem to plague other forum members.

[Suradit69]

If I had used the alternative shipping method (EMS) which would have cost an extra $11, it may have got through. But equally it may still have attracted the same VAT on the (larger) CIF cost, worth the risk for a < $2 saving?

I think Customs allows the major couriers to assess the duty owed according to " the book" and acting as agents on behalf of Thai Customs and they therefore will charge the maximum amount they believe applicable to avoid coming up short. When things come through the post office and, presumably, customs officers do the processing, they have the authority to make the call, which means some things pass without being charged or they might attract a nominal amount.

I used to order shirts from Lands' End in the US. Then recently they got the idea to use some global shipping service that pre-charged the customs duty upfront at the time of the order. The last order I made (and then cancelled) they calculated customs at something ridiculous like 80% of the price of the merchandise. Obviously they were doing the assessment of customs duty on their own. It wasn't a Thai Customs Officer.

I have since put in essentially the same order (two different times) via Lands' End in UK. They charged a small amount for shipping and sent the items via the post office. Both of those orders arrived in my condo office without any customs notice. For some reason that I never understood, the lady in the condo office who handles parcels said there was a 7 baht (yes seven baht) charge due on each of those shipments. The condo never charges for handling parcels so it had to have been something to do with the post office or customs.

In the first case I would have had to prepay something like $100/Baht 3600 to cover customs duty but the amount due was determined by a shipping service in the US. not Thai Customs... and in the second two cases I paid next to nothing as determined by Thai Customs.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Suradit69

[Dan5]

My experience has been that with UPS, DHL, FedX, I almost always had to pay tax and duties, and sometimes even customs storage and handling charges to boot. There was one time when they totalled more than the price item shipped. They actually charged me about $100 in storage and handling fees for an item that weighed less than a pound. And there was no delay on my part.

So I started using EMS. Out of 50 or more EMS shipments, I had to pay taxes and duties on just one shipment. I always use EMS now unless I'm really in a hurry.

[6NS]

Just for a bit more info on why the Form is required ...

As the goal of the FTA is to promote the trade of goods manufactured in the countries that are members of the FTA

It is not just shipped from China...

Otherwise, you could by goods from any country in the world and then just arrange for a transshipment in Any Chinese port... And get the BL TO SHOW origin port in China

Then get duty reduction...

As you can imagine, that would not be the intent of any such FTAs

Customs needs to know what you seam to know then. And I agree.

I understand and know it is the same in the North American free-trade agreement,,, BUT, if you buy something (made/manufactured here in Thailand) from say America and have it shipped here, DHL and the others still throw the entire book at you. They are ignorant of the true facts of importation.

Like always, just grab the money.

DHL is the worst for over charging.

[orpheus454]

If I had used the alternative shipping method (EMS) which would have cost an extra $11, it may have got through. But equally it may still have attracted the same VAT on the (larger) CIF cost, worth the risk for a < $2 saving?

I think Customs allows the major couriers to assess the duty owed according to " the book" and acting as agents on behalf of Thai Customs and they therefore will charge the maximum amount they believe applicable to avoid coming up short. When things come through the post office and, presumably, customs officers do the processing, they have the authority to make the call, which means some things pass without being charged or they might attract a nominal amount.

I used to order shirts from Lands' End in the US. Then recently they got the idea to use some global shipping service that pre-charged the customs duty upfront at the time of the order. The last order I made (and then cancelled) they calculated customs at something ridiculous like 80% of the price of the merchandise. Obviously they were doing the assessment of customs duty on their own. It wasn't a Thai Customs Officer.

I have since put in essentially the same order (two different times) via Lands' End in UK. They charged a small amount for shipping and sent the items via the post office. Both of those orders arrived in my condo office without any customs notice. For some reason that I never understood, the lady in the condo office who handles parcels said there was a 7 baht (yes seven baht) charge due on each of those shipments. The condo never charges for handling parcels so it had to have been something to do with the post office or customs.

In the first case I would have had to prepay something like $100/Baht 3600 to cover customs duty but the amount due was determined by a shipping service in the US. not Thai Customs... and in the second two cases I paid next to nothing as determined by Thai Customs.

According to my friend in the customs department it's post office workers who do the duty estimation, not customs officers. He says the department has asked that they be less severe.

And yes, the 7 baht for some packages is official, but I am still to figure out the criteria on which it is levied.

[cyborgx]

Actually in my experience, DHL are a particularly bad in Thailand.

If you actually check the paperwork properly concerning your charges, you will probably find that the "Clearance Fee" you mention is not from Customs, but added by DHL themselves!

I have seen this many times, and refuse to pay it. I even went to the point of checking contract agreements from overseas. I pay for Door to Door service, and in the case of International shipping, that obviously includes getting it through customs!

Other couriers seem to much better in this respect, but DHL appear to add Bt.200 to EVERY incoming package regardless. That's a lot of additional income, but an amount that most people just pay as being a small inconvenience and don't actually check what it's for.....

I REFUSE to pay it every time, but avoid DHL as a courier because of this ridiculous and IMHO inappropriate, possibly even fraudulent double charging!

In a case where there is a problem getting a package through customs, PERHAPS there is some justification for additional charges, but this charge is made by DHL on EVERY package and is totally unacceptable!

You will now it's not a charge from the Customs department, because the Customs department issue you a formal government receipt for their charges (normally Blue with the Customs logo on it).

I hope enough people read this post, and refuse to pay it too. It is just adding fees tor a service which you have already paid for as part of the Sender's agreement!

Edited December 26, 2015 by cyborgx

[Crossy]

@cyborgx - Indeed the clearance or disbursement fee is a courier (not just DHL, they all do it) charge, it even has VAT added separately.

Whilst I agree with the sentiments of not paying, for a couple of hundred Baht on a delivery of several thousands (which I need today) it's not worth the hassle. I assume the couriers rely on others having the same sentiments to cough up.

[DonaldBattles]

The post office in Chiang Rai told me that if the value was less than 1500 Baht there is no duty or taxes.

[Naam]

[cyborgx]

@cyborgx - Indeed the clearance or disbursement fee is a courier (not just DHL, they all do it) charge, it even has VAT added separately.

Whilst I agree with the sentiments of not paying, for a couple of hundred Baht on a delivery of several thousands (which I need today) it's not worth the hassle. I assume the couriers rely on others having the same sentiments to cough up.

Not Disbursement Fee, Clearance Fee as mentioned in the OP, and they do not ALL do it.

Yes, as I already said, most people just pay it to avoid hassle and get their package asap, but on the smaller frequent packages it starts to add up.

Edited December 27, 2015 by cyborgx

[Tom Cahill]

customs.jpg

Nice one for this. A picture tells a thousand words.

I've downloaded this.

Please explain, do they have the Thai version of that on the other side?

I'm just planning ahead in case I ever need to send anything, as my feeling is they rip themselves off more than white people as they know they can be twikincwewer.