Thai police defend Koh Tao murders investigations

[dannyman]

Have you graduate already

[DavisH]

So allowing outsiders to trample through the crime scene is in accordance with International standards? I beg to differ...

[klauskunkel]

“The DNA evidence cannot lie” announced a senior police officer

He said DNA testing proved they committed the crimes.

”The DNA evidence cannot lie,” he said.

"...and I tell you three times: the DNA evidence cannot lie"

and I thank you three times, because you are right: the DNA evidence cannot lie. Which brings us to the question: who can lie?...

Who in this country has a track record for falsifying and producing evidence, for protecting perpetrators and intimidating witnesses, for fouling up crime scenes and protracting processes, and so on...

well, I thought really hard three times and I cannot find anybody for who this shoe fits, and I cannot lie.

[sweatalot]

They should stop reaffirming their innocence and correctness of work and instead prove it by allowing independent foreign experts to recheck their proceeding by letting them use all the evidence and all the DNA they have. Saying the DNA is not available anymore should be considered as no DNA evidence ever existed.

And btw. not having checked the victims' clothes for (murderer's) DNA and not having investigated what happened in AC Bar that night could be seen as attempt to cover up something or somebody and is unprofessional at the very least.

Edited December 28, 2015 by sweatalot

[kannot]

Well done why not give yourself a reward???

Place gets more absurd by the day

[emilymat]

A Mandy Rice Davies OP.

[scorecard]

Royal Thai Police insists transparency, justice standards in Koh Tao murder case

BANGKOK: -- The Royal Thai Police yesterday reiterated strongly that the probe into the Koh Tao murder case met international standards, was transparent, and most of all supported by forensic DNA testing.

The DNA samples collected from both Myanmar migrant workers matched DNA samples collected at the scene of murders and in the body of a victim.

“The DNA evidence cannot lie” announced a senior police officer, Pol Maj Gen Piyaphan Pingmuang, one of the team of police spokesmen, designated by the Royal Thai Police to defend the country’s justice system yesterday.

The team included police forensic chief and Surat Thani’s Koh Pha-ngan district police chief handling the investigation.

The Royal Thai Police came out in full force to defend following protests in Yangon and on the Thai-Myanmar border against the death sentence handed down to two Myanmar migrant workers, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 22, for the murders of two British backpackers in September last year.

Pol Maj Gen Piyaphan said the police investigation of the case was based on the DNA evidence that linked the two Myanmar defendants to the crime they committed.

The probe was conducted in accordance with international standards, and transparent.

He said DNA testing proved they committed the crimes.

”The DNA evidence cannot lie,” he said.

He said some groups had tried to exploit the court’s ruling case to instigate protests.

As there was growing concern that the protest could spread to the extent that it could jeopardise the good relations of the two countries, he urged all people not to be misguided into falling victim to these groups.

He recalled there were criminal prosecutions in 126 murder cases involving Myanmar people in Thailand in the past year, but there were no protests against those.

The protests against the Koh Tao murder case were suspicious, he said.

Local court paid no attention to the initial confessions by the accused but rather focused on the evidence.

Meanwhile forensic police chief Political Maj Gen Thawatchai Mekprasert assured transparency and international standard practises in all steps of the DNA collection and testing.

He said forensic police needed to remove the bodies of the victims from the scenes due to the sea tides, and one day after all evidences were sent for examinations in Bangkok.

These evidences collected at the scenes included cigarette butts, he said.

He said the police had primary DNA filing from the bodies and after the testing, they all matched those evidences collected from the suspects.

DNA collected from cigarettes linked to the scene where a blood stained hoe was discovered, he said.

When the police collected DNA samples from both suspects for DNA testings with the cigarette butts, and from the body of a victim, they all matched, he said.

Another officer Pol Col Prachum Ruengthong, chief of Pha-ngan station police, said local police followed every step required by law and international standards in handling the investigation as the case was serious and involved foreigners as both suspects and victims, and which maximum penalty is death.

He said the police had to use interpreters and lawyers in every step of investigation.

He said after the police had finished the investigation and sent all evidence to the prosecution, the prosecutor didn’t further the case to the court immediately,

Instead, he said, the prosecutor had ordered the police to reinvestigate on more issues for three times to make the case file complete and solid, adding that the process was a check and balance of the police power by the prosecutor.

The team of officers later rejected a request to reinvestigate the case as now it has entered the judicial process that also allows appeals to two higher courts.

Earlier, Myanmar’s envoy to Thailand called on Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha to review the case file.

The Myanmar embassy on Saturday issued a statement clarifying it did not accept the court ruling, in which two Myanmar nationals were sentenced to death for last year’s murder of British backpackers, but instead “respected” it.

Myanmar’s army chief also called on Thailand to review the sentencing after the controversial trial, which sparked protests.

According to the state-run New Light of Myanmar newspaper, Gen Min Aung Hlaing, head of the country’s influential military, has asked Thailand for a “review of the evidence” against the men.

Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun were found guilty by the Koh Samui Provincial Court on Thursday of killing David Miller, 24, and raping and murdering Hannah Witheridge, 23, on a beach on Koh Tao in Surat Thani province in September last year.

In another development Courts of Justice spokesman Suebpong Siripongkul said the case is not final as the defendants can lodge an appeal with the Appeal Court within 30 days.

At the same time, the Lawyers Council of Thailand, which fought the case on behalf of the two workers at the request of the Myanmar embassy, also called on the Myanmar people to have confidence in the Thai justice system as the judicial process was not finished.

The council said all factual evidence would be considered justly when the case reaches the Appeals Court, or even the Supreme Court

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/royal-thai-police-insists-transparency-justice-standards-in-koh-tao-murder-case

-- Thai PBS 2015-12-28

Pure arrogance,..............

This event was also presented in good English.

The most notable part of the 'speech' was the the phrase '... strictly according to international standards...' and very similar phrases.

It was said after almost every sentence.

Obvious they are hoping Thai people / the world would be convinced by saying it a million times.

Edited December 28, 2015 by scorecard

[MaxLee]

Justice vs Tourism ? Who wins ?

Corruption

[dannyman]

It means something , university grad Sawa dee pemai!

[taony]

Two of the guys in the picture have only one row of medals. Did they just start yesterday? Impressive they could get such a good seat after so soon.

[oldsailor35]

Filthy, disgusting, corrupt, pathetic 3rd world country, liars.

They can control and fool simple uneducated natives, but not the ex-pats , many who are highly educated and can and will think for themselves.

[greenchair]

Don't know if they were tortured.

The dna was certainly collected poorly.

The dna was presented badly in court by both the prosecutor and the defense.

But no getting around they had David's phone. They were there.

And for now are in the correct place.

[SCARLETIBIS1]

"Koh Pha Ngan Police Station's superintendent Pol Colonel Prachum Ruangthong said public prosecutors had asked police to improve investigation report three times before the case was accepted for prosecution."

Improve? 3 times eh?

Improve, yeah, sure you did, sure you did.

Could the kindly police chief expound on why the first two reports were lacking? Not saying much for the investigators in my view. What made the third time acceptable?

[balo]

I think the best thing for RTP would be to not hold press conferences at all. Every time they open their mouth it comes out silly because nobody believes a word.

Just like with the terror bomb in Bangkok , they did catch the right guys in the end there after giving out a big reward , but every word they spoke at the press conferences were laughed at from the public. It will never change I'm afraid.

.

[oldsailor35]

Handled the case very carefully to ensure that their reputation for corruption and incompetence remains intact.

So why did a previous judge send the case back for them to re write. Why was critical "so called" evidence not available, DNA used up or lost.

Careful ... my ass ! They thought that it was all 'sewn up' in the first round of BS.

[SCARLETIBIS1]

Just asking but if they are basing their conviction on the DNA evidence and it was done properly the first time why did the prosecutors ask them to do a better job two more times? And got made better? If it wasn't the DNA then the DNA evidence could not have been good enough the first time and if it was the DNA how they upgrade it a second and third time? This is beyond bizarre but again why no outcry from the Brits sent to oversee or watch?

Royal Thai Police insists transparency, justice standards in Koh Tao murder case



BANGKOK: -- The Royal Thai Police yesterday reiterated strongly that the probe into the Koh Tao murder case met international standards, was transparent, and most of all supported by forensic DNA testing.

The DNA samples collected from both Myanmar migrant workers matched DNA samples collected at the scene of murders and in the body of a victim.

“The DNA evidence cannot lie” announced a senior police officer, Pol Maj Gen Piyaphan Pingmuang, one of the team of police spokesmen, designated by the Royal Thai Police to defend the country’s justice system yesterday.

The team included police forensic chief and Surat Thani’s Koh Pha-ngan district police chief handling the investigation.

The Royal Thai Police came out in full force to defend following protests in Yangon and on the Thai-Myanmar border against the death sentence handed down to two Myanmar migrant workers, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 22, for the murders of two British backpackers in September last year.

Pol Maj Gen Piyaphan said the police investigation of the case was based on the DNA evidence that linked the two Myanmar defendants to the crime they committed.

The probe was conducted in accordance with international standards, and transparent.

He said DNA testing proved they committed the crimes.

”The DNA evidence cannot lie,” he said.

He said some groups had tried to exploit the court’s ruling case to instigate protests.

As there was growing concern that the protest could spread to the extent that it could jeopardise the good relations of the two countries, he urged all people not to be misguided into falling victim to these groups.

He recalled there were criminal prosecutions in 126 murder cases involving Myanmar people in Thailand in the past year, but there were no protests against those.

The protests against the Koh Tao murder case were suspicious, he said.

Local court paid no attention to the initial confessions by the accused but rather focused on the evidence.

Meanwhile forensic police chief Political Maj Gen Thawatchai Mekprasert assured transparency and international standard practises in all steps of the DNA collection and testing.

He said forensic police needed to remove the bodies of the victims from the scenes due to the sea tides, and one day after all evidences were sent for examinations in Bangkok.

These evidences collected at the scenes included cigarette butts, he said.

He said the police had primary DNA filing from the bodies and after the testing, they all matched those evidences collected from the suspects.

DNA collected from cigarettes linked to the scene where a blood stained hoe was discovered, he said.

When the police collected DNA samples from both suspects for DNA testings with the cigarette butts, and from the body of a victim, they all matched, he said.

Another officer Pol Col Prachum Ruengthong, chief of Pha-ngan station police, said local police followed every step required by law and international standards in handling the investigation as the case was serious and involved foreigners as both suspects and victims, and which maximum penalty is death.

He said the police had to use interpreters and lawyers in every step of investigation.

He said after the police had finished the investigation and sent all evidence to the prosecution, the prosecutor didn’t further the case to the court immediately,

Instead, he said, the prosecutor had ordered the police to reinvestigate on more issues for three times to make the case file complete and solid, adding that the process was a check and balance of the police power by the prosecutor.

The team of officers later rejected a request to reinvestigate the case as now it has entered the judicial process that also allows appeals to two higher courts.

Earlier, Myanmar’s envoy to Thailand called on Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha to review the case file.

The Myanmar embassy on Saturday issued a statement clarifying it did not accept the court ruling, in which two Myanmar nationals were sentenced to death for last year’s murder of British backpackers, but instead “respected” it.

Myanmar’s army chief also called on Thailand to review the sentencing after the controversial trial, which sparked protests.

According to the state-run New Light of Myanmar newspaper, Gen Min Aung Hlaing, head of the country’s influential military, has asked Thailand for a “review of the evidence” against the men.

Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun were found guilty by the Koh Samui Provincial Court on Thursday of killing David Miller, 24, and raping and murdering Hannah Witheridge, 23, on a beach on Koh Tao in Surat Thani province in September last year.

In another development Courts of Justice spokesman Suebpong Siripongkul said the case is not final as the defendants can lodge an appeal with the Appeal Court within 30 days.

At the same time, the Lawyers Council of Thailand, which fought the case on behalf of the two workers at the request of the Myanmar embassy, also called on the Myanmar people to have confidence in the Thai justice system as the judicial process was not finished.

The council said all factual evidence would be considered justly when the case reaches the Appeals Court, or even the Supreme Court

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/royal-thai-police-insists-transparency-justice-standards-in-koh-tao-murder-case


-- Thai PBS 2015-12-28

[MaxLee]

Don't know if they were tortured.

The dna was certainly collected poorly.

The dna was presented badly in court by both the prosecutor and the defense.

But no getting around they had David's phone. They were there.

And for now are in the correct place.

Just to make it simple, that whole farce was RIGGED from the beginning to the end............

[WaiLai]

Forget about these lackeys!

Focus on the power play!

A general from Myanmar has called into question the integrity of the investigation and proceedings.

Now it is time for the general who lead a military coup to answer in kind!

He is only a general - he is not a Prime Minister and therefore of higher rank.

Stand up and account for yourself and your minions Mr. junta leader!

[jing jing]

Ok, here is my take on the overall trajectory of events since the murders and initial discovery of the bodies:

Cops on the scene unable to resist posting grisly, sexually explicit photos of the victims on FB

First glimpse of the guiding principle used in identifying the "true" perpetrators of this crime: "a Thai person would never do something like this"

Initially, every attempt is made to find a "foreigner" suspect to arrest, but worldwide media attention makes this more difficult than usual, and those early "likely suspects" prove too unlikely even by RTP standards.

One of the RTP's more competent senior investigators, Colonel Panya Mamen, is given the unenviable task of solving this crime in a manner acceptable to an international audience.

Despite the rapid progress he is able to make in tracking down the perpetrators, whose identities are not a secret for very long, the investigation hits an insurmountable roadblock when it becomes evident who their families are and how far up the food chain their connections really go.

Plan B not having panned out, it's back to Plan A: find some Burmese laborers who were somewhere in the vicinity sometime that night. No need to look very far; helpful Uncle Mon knows a couple of his Burmese employees were around the bar just before the murders - maybe they could take the fall?

The deal is done, Thai style - arrangements are made by power brokers behind closed doors, the details of which may be speculated about forever but will never actually be known. At this point the "investigation" is over and the result of the "trial" is already a foregone conclusion.

Cheer up folks, because here's the good part: the door has been left open for face to be saved and still give the Burmese scapegoats a reprieve. Thai authorities have said all along, and are again reminding us, that the process is not over - there will be appeals.

Mark my words, there may yet be a measure of mercy shown - albeit exclusively as a result of the intense international backlash against the scapegoating of the Burmese.

[MaxLee]

Forget about these lackeys!

Focus on the power play!

A general from Myanmar has called into question the integrity of the investigation and proceedings.

Now it is time for the general who lead a military coup to answer in kind!

He is only a general - he is not a Prime Minister and therefore of higher rank.

Stand up and account for yourself and your minions Mr. junta leader!

He doesn't have, he won't answer to a historical enemy, but rather s****ck up to big brother China..... what is International relations with "poor Myanmar relations anyways"

[taony]

Ok, here is my take on the overall trajectory of events since the murders and initial discovery of the bodies:

Cops on the scene unable to resist posting grisly, sexually explicit photos of the victims on FB

First glimpse of the guiding principle used in identifying the "true" perpetrators of this crime: "a Thai person would never do something like this"

Initially, every attempt is made to find a "foreigner" suspect to arrest, but worldwide media attention makes this more difficult than usual, and those early "likely suspects" prove too unlikely even by RTP standards.

One of the RTP's more competent senior investigators, Colonel Panya Mamen, is given the unenviable task of solving this crime in a manner acceptable to an international audience.

Despite the rapid progress he is able to make in tracking down the perpetrators, whose identities are not a secret for very long, the investigation hits an insurmountable roadblock when it becomes evident who their families are and how far up the food chain their connections really go.

Plan B not having panned out, it's back to Plan A: find some Burmese laborers who were somewhere in the vicinity sometime that night. No need to look very far; helpful Uncle Mon knows a couple of his Burmese employees were around the bar just before the murders - maybe they could take the fall?

The deal is done, Thai style - arrangements are made by power brokers behind closed doors, the details of which may be speculated about forever but will never actually be known. At this point the "investigation" is over and the result of the "trial" is already a foregone conclusion.

Cheer up folks, because here's the good part: the door has been left open for face to be saved and still give the Burmese scapegoats a reprieve. Thai authorities have said all along, and are again reminding us, that the process is not over - there will be appeals.

Mark my words, there may yet be a measure of mercy shown - albeit exclusively as a result of the intense international backlash against the scapegoating of the Burmese.

probably all part of the plan, then we get to hear later how generous and kind someone is. total bs of course.

[DiscoDan]

"Those reports are groundless. Doctors have examined the defendants' physical health and there is no sign of torture," Prachum said.

Water boarding and rubber hoses don't leave any physical signs. That might be the only "professional law enforcement procedure" the police carried out skillfully.

Well you can put that down to another thing the can't do properly because Zaw Lin claimed the bruising on his chest was from torture, and not from David fighting back when he attacked him

[oldsailor35]

Let's see video which wasn't mentioned picture a Thai male that looked very much like son of village head. But then doctored video of him in Bangkok walking past person in hall who was either blind or video doctored Didn't even see him oh shadow was different from each other. One shadow was right leaning other forward leaning from same light.

All those videos were so blatently and obviously doctored.

[oldsailor35]

It's an disgrace but par for the course here. How we got from this in the beginning to 2 x completely new suspects (conveniently) is insane:

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run

"The police have arrested a suspect in the murder of two British tourists in Koh Tao and are still hunting for a second suspect who has escaped into Bangkok.

Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon.

He is the brother of a village headman in Koh Tao.

He was arrested after evidence which police collected were examined and proved he was involved, he said.

He also said another suspect is also a son of that village headman. But he has already to Bangkok.

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders."

That was before Pol Lt-Gen Panya was transferred & changed by someone else

Why was'nt Panya x examined during the case. Why does he remain silent.

[jing jing]

Some of the posts I've seen from the Flat Earth acolytes are not worth dignifying with a response. It's fairly obvious who the pure wind up merchants are versus those who have a reasoned opinion to express.

[oldsailor35]

Don't know if they were tortured.

The dna was certainly collected poorly.

The dna was presented badly in court by both the prosecutor and the defense.

But no getting around they had David's phone. They were there.

And for now are in the correct place.

Just to make it simple, that whole farce was RIGGED from the beginning to the end............

Incorrect ! Not rigged from the beginning as the first investigating officer found and declared who the real murders were, namely brother of Village headman, owner of AC bar, MON and head mans son. Proved, so he said by CCTV. However this person Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen , was quickly replaced by another. Then the RIGGING began.

[Krenjai]

Just read on Andy Hall Twitter account in a reckoning statement of the Court:

"The DNA in the vagina of the victim matched the DNA of Win Zaw Htun, while the DNA found in the rectum of the victim matched that of both defendants"

Well, well, well...... I wonder

1) I never heard before she was anally raped? I thought this was dismissed at the very beginning of this case? Am I wrong?

2) I thought that the British coroner didn't find any signs of rape? Am I wrong again?

This case is beyond fabrication, and even if she was (anally) raped, I bet you anything the DNA found in her vagina/rectum will match the DNA on the hoe. Sorry, we cannot do a retest, all samples are used up, but we promise you the samples matched!

This case is beyond utterly disgusting!

Edited December 28, 2015 by Krenjai

[dopenhagen]

"The Thai who kills an innocent and runs away, lives to blame a Burmese and kill another day"

[dannyman]

MAFIA

[jing jing]

Don't know if they were tortured.

The dna was certainly collected poorly.

The dna was presented badly in court by both the prosecutor and the defense.

But no getting around they had David's phone. They were there.

And for now are in the correct place.

Just to make it simple, that whole farce was RIGGED from the beginning to the end............

Incorrect ! Not rigged from the beginning as the first investigating officer found and declared who the real murders were, namely brother of Village headman, owner of AC bar, MON and head mans son. Proved, so he said by CCTV. However this person Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen , was quickly replaced by another. Then the RIGGING began.

Oldsailor35 may have misunderstood which "farce" was being referenced in the included quote. I take it as referring to the shell game played by the police with the victims' iPhones.

It is impossible for any of us, Ms. greenchair included, to be certain of who placed which phone in what location. It is entirely possible that, as part of the setup, the police placed a phone - found by or perhaps given to them previously - behind the scapegoats' dwelling. That would be quite likely to happen under the circumstances; straight out of the Evidence Planting for Dummies book, actually.

Whatever the Burmese are reported to have said under interrogation can be taken with a massive boulder of salt - no videotape of the interview, no credible witnesses present, just the word of those paragons of honesty and incorruptibility - you guessed it, the RTP.