What's so great about Chiang Mai?

[JaseTheBass]

The best thing about Chiang Mai is that almost anyplace is only about 5 minutes away from being in the country or even wilderness. There aren't many cities that can make that claim.

What do you drive? A helicopter?

Not so much what he drives but where he lives: Likely in Not-Nimman.

True.

We had a lovely house out near San Kamphaeng. Brand new, nice village and only 9.5k a month. The downside was that the commute (CB500 bike) was literally nearly killing me and there were 4 or 5 grotty Thai 'restaurants' on the main road that created the usual noise pollution every night. We had a choice of buying a second car and adding to the problem (and having an even longer commute) or moving into Nimman and being within walking distance of work.

We moved about a year ago and the quality of life has improved (except we no longer have a garden for my lad to run around in). It's much quieter here and all we need (except for Namton's) is in walking distance.

So for us being in town is better than being on the periphery.

Many have mentioned the air pollution. It doesn't really get to me, but the wife is talking about spending a month or so back in Udon when the pollution gets to the point where its affecting her.

[alfieconn]

Taking into consideration increasing house prices, rents, medical fees, labour costs and noise levels, I think the same could be said for the whole of Thailand, only that Chiang Mai is no longer as good value for money as in other regions.

Number one, immigration has become a nightmare the worst in the whole country, the pollution in Chiang Mai is bad, early closing of bars and general lack of things that maybe taken for granted in other regions. I am becoming disillusioned with Chiang Mai and would not recommend settling here.

I used to live ther 2006/7 but now stay Hua Hin ,I go back now and again to visit friends , the place has a bit of charm around the river restuarants at night and has some nice parts.

However I now find it overun with chinese tourists that have recked the Sunday market , for me anyhow they just walk over people in droves.

The streets smell a bit of sewerage and my friend who owned a guest house off moon muang soi 9 said the party is over in Chiang Mai.

I found the bar area and restuarants around LOi krow empty of falangs and looking a bit sad , some are filthy.

As for the burgers in moon muang just up from spicy very good, the angus burger from Burger KINg is nearly 300 BHT $15.00 NZ rediculous.

I find it good for a visit but getting crowded and expensive.

Hua Hin is getting crowded and expensive as well ,New Year last night the traffic and amount of people in town was unbelievable.

But I don't cherish the thought of playing bingo in an RSA or Bowling club looking at old farts bored sheetless if decided to go back home.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

"Labor costs are way up. Many housekeepers think they should be paid B100/hour, which is approaching a US minimum wage level". .

I thought slavery was abolished years ago, So you can hire labour at just over $3 an hour in the US???

In answer to your question my wife and I came from the UKto take early retirement here ,House rentals are half of what they are in the uk Municipal tax (council tax is the equivalent to 6000 baht per month

Electriciy gas and water come to around an average of 5000 Baht per month.

The weather is nicer and we are well placed in Asia to travel.

Thai people are very friendly and have made us most welcome here especially in the community we live in

We don,t read or speak much Thai so we are pretty oblivious to all that political crap that we get atat home.

I enjoy not living in a nanny state as well

As far as I am concerned I am living in paradise.

Ya yea...

Until something happens in your paradise.

Then you'll be crying to go back to your "Nanny" state and paying that council tax with pleasure.

I never understood arrogant posts like this. You are keeping your UK passport, no? You apparently made a good living in the "Nanny state", so you can use the overvalued British pound in Thailand? You are comparing completely irrelevant cost of living in a "Nanny state" to a third world (pardon, developing) country?

[villagefarang]

Quote

I live in a house, in a field, in a valley with a view ...

I could never live in a place with a view but no trees on the property. For me, that's beautiful slumming. But maybe you've got some Thai blood in you since Thais HATE trees. (I have never seen a people with such disdain for trees, particularly large ones that provide shade, coolness, are home to songbirds and squirrels, and provide natural beauty. "That tree is TOO BIG; let's cut it completely down!" A very sad state of affairs.)

The pond looks nice as does the rice, but in the non-growing seasons, it must look bleak...and hot as the hobs of hell out there.

We do have trees and lots of different birds but I made it clear from the beginning, that particular slice of view was to remain unimpeded. You can no longer see the house when coming down the driveway because of the trees. Unfortunately we lost our biggest tree to a windstorm but those things happen. Fortunately it fell at just the right angle and missed the house.

You made me realize that I didn't really have any house shots from the East entrance side, so I took a couple this morning with an iPhone while walking the dog.

Edited January 2, 2016 by villagefarang

[banter68]

A lot of informative posts here.

Some not so informative. Some infuriating. The guy who described B100/hour for housekeeping work as "slavery" (because he is happy to pay even more than that?) is most likely part of the problem--the #1 problem for us, and also for many Thais here--of foreigners driving up prices.

A few years ago my (farang) wife and I, and <1-yr old baby, were happy here. We lived in a very nice, ~$500/mo 1BR apartment with a fantastic view of Doi Suthep. Kad Suan Kaew was a 10 minute scooter ride away; Maya when it opened was 5 minutes away.

Then the noise at night started getting worse, so that we eventually had to close the windows while sleeping instead of enjoying the fresh air.

And then our son became a toddler and we needed a larger place. We started searching for a house in a neighborhood with other families. We looked at a bunch of moo bans--this was over a year ago--but what we found was really depressing. In the nice ones with decent-seeming expat families the rents started at B30K for something unfurnished and falling apart, and went up to B45-60K for something we would have found acceptable.

We could have afforded that but we felt that those rents were, and still are, just ridiculous for northern Thailand. FYI folks, the GDP per capita and average wage in TH are about a tenth of US figures. Rents and labor costs should therefore be at least roughly in line with that ratio. Of course I realize that these were upmarket neighborhoods, but as I noted in the original post, the rents we saw in CM were already pricier than in nice small towns in the US--and the houses and neighborhoods were no better, in fact worse I would say.

We found a house for a more reasonable price--still too high for Thailand, really--a ways out of town. The Thai neighbors are very nice. But the neighborhood doesn't really have any English-speaking kids our son's age. One of our farang neighbors has an older child who has to take a van to school, I think a one hour commute each way, and I think the kid has no playmates in this moo ban.

If we had no kids, we'd probably be happy in a small house or apartment in a quieter part of CM, and we'd travel enough that the drawbacks of CM wouldn't bother us too much. But we do have kids, and the last straw for us was the difficulty of finding a nanny despite considerable effort, as described in a recent thread. So we are now planning to leave Chiang Mai, for one of the surrounding towns or further afield, and maybe out of TH altogether.

Any suggestions for places to live in Asia--places that are family-friendly, safe, and have reasonably good healthcare and Internet, and that are cheaper than CM? We've tried Chiang Rai (too spread out, not enough supply of decent housing), Costa Rica (unsafe, overpriced), Philippines (terrible internet, roads, and airports, with rents and healthcare costs that are generally higher than TH's).

Edited January 2, 2016 by banter68

[TheAppletons]

Quote

I live in a house, in a field, in a valley with a view ...

I could never live in a place with a view but no trees on the property. For me, that's beautiful slumming. But maybe you've got some Thai blood in you since Thais HATE trees. (I have never seen a people with such disdain for trees, particularly large ones that provide shade, coolness, are home to songbirds and squirrels, and provide natural beauty. "That tree is TOO BIG; let's cut it completely down!" A very sad state of affairs.)

The pond looks nice as does the rice, but in the non-growing seasons, it must look bleak...and hot as the hobs of hell out there.

We do have trees and lots of different birds but I made it clear from the beginning, that particular slice of view was to remain unimpeded. You can no longer see the house when coming down the driveway because of the trees. Unfortunately we lost our biggest tree to a windstorm but those things happen. Fortunately it fell at just the right angle and missed the house.

You made me realize that I didn't really have any house shots from the East entrance side, so I took a couple this morning with an iPhone while walking the dog.

These photos would be great in THE CHIANG RAI FORUM. <removed>

[northernjohn]

general lack of things that maybe taken for granted in other regions.

Would be interested in what they are ?

Can`t answer that for you because it depends on what each person likes doing and availability of what some people enjoy. My main concerns are the present immigration situation and worsening pollution each year. Over the last 3 years my girlfriend and me have suffered from permanent coughs, wake up every morning choking my lungs up. A lot of what I used to enjoy has gone into decline in Chiang Mai. Different strokes for different folks.

Well in your opinion what are they ?

I`m not going to be cornered into this one. This is Thai Visa and whatever I say you are going to knock me down for it and say it`s me that is the problem.

I will say that for me Chiang Mai is now lacking in certain things that I used to enjoy in the past, a lot has changed. You can interpret that anyways you like.

You have already said that or are you know going to tell us what they are ?

Probably nothing except the traffic. Old age changes people not things around them.

[northernjohn]

A lot of informative posts here.

Some not so informative. Some infuriating. The guy who described B100/hour for housekeeping work as "slavery" (because he is happy to pay even more than that?) is most likely part of the problem--the #1 problem for us, and also for many Thais here--of foreigners driving up prices.

A few years ago my (farang) wife and I, and <1-yr old baby, were happy here. We lived in a very nice, ~$500/mo 1BR apartment with a fantastic view of Doi Suthep. Kad Suan Kaew was a 10 minute scooter ride away; Maya when it opened was 5 minutes away.

Then the noise at night started getting worse, so that we eventually had to close the windows while sleeping instead of enjoying the fresh air.

And then our son became a toddler and we needed a larger place. We started searching for a house in a neighborhood with other families. We looked at a bunch of moo bans--this was over a year ago--but what we found was really depressing. In the nice ones with decent-seeming expat families the rents started at B30K for something unfurnished and falling apart, and went up to B45-60K for something we would have found acceptable.

We could have afforded that but we felt that those rents were, and still are, just ridiculous for northern Thailand. FYI folks, the GDP per capita and average wage in TH are about a tenth of US figures. Rents and labor costs should therefore be at least roughly in line with that ratio. Of course I realize that these were upmarket neighborhoods, but as I noted in the original post, the rents we saw in CM were already pricier than in nice small towns in the US--and the houses and neighborhoods were no better, in fact worse I would say.

We found a house for a more reasonable price--still too high for Thailand, really--a ways out of town. The Thai neighbors are very nice. But the neighborhood doesn't really have any English-speaking kids our son's age. One of our farang neighbors has an older child who has to take a van to school, I think a one hour commute each way, and I think the kid has no playmates in this moo ban.

If we had no kids, we'd probably be happy in a small house or apartment in a quieter part of CM, and we'd travel enough that the drawbacks of CM wouldn't bother us too much. But we do have kids, and the last straw for us was the difficulty of finding a nanny despite considerable effort, as described in a recent thread. So we are now planning to leave Chiang Mai, for one of the surrounding towns or further afield, and maybe out of TH altogether.

Any suggestions for places to live in Asia--places that are family-friendly, safe, and have reasonably good healthcare and Internet, and that are cheaper than CM? We've tried Chiang Rai (too spread out, not enough supply of decent housing), Costa Rica (unsafe, overpriced), Philippines (terrible internet, roads, and airports, with rents and healthcare costs that are generally higher than TH's).

Sounds to me like you had no reason to come to Chiang Mai in the first place

as you have not mentioned even one attraction. Normal for Thai visa posters.

Nothing to do with the topic.

Try Equator

Edited January 2, 2016 by northernjohn

[villagefarang]

Quote

I live in a house, in a field, in a valley with a view ...

I could never live in a place with a view but no trees on the property. For me, that's beautiful slumming. But maybe you've got some Thai blood in you since Thais HATE trees. (I have never seen a people with such disdain for trees, particularly large ones that provide shade, coolness, are home to songbirds and squirrels, and provide natural beauty. "That tree is TOO BIG; let's cut it completely down!" A very sad state of affairs.)

The pond looks nice as does the rice, but in the non-growing seasons, it must look bleak...and hot as the hobs of hell out there.

We do have trees and lots of different birds but I made it clear from the beginning, that particular slice of view was to remain unimpeded. You can no longer see the house when coming down the driveway because of the trees. Unfortunately we lost our biggest tree to a windstorm but those things happen. Fortunately it fell at just the right angle and missed the house.

You made me realize that I didn't really have any house shots from the East entrance side, so I took a couple this morning with an iPhone while walking the dog.

These photos would be great in THE CHIANG RAI FORUM. <removed>

And a Happy New Year to you too.

[bangmai]

A lot of informative posts here.

Some not so informative. Some infuriating. The guy who described B100/hour for housekeeping work as "slavery" (because he is happy to pay even more than that?) is most likely part of the problem--the #1 problem for us, and also for many Thais here--of foreigners driving up prices.

A few years ago my (farang) wife and I, and <1-yr old baby, were happy here. We lived in a very nice, ~$500/mo 1BR apartment with a fantastic view of Doi Suthep. Kad Suan Kaew was a 10 minute scooter ride away; Maya when it opened was 5 minutes away.

Then the noise at night started getting worse, so that we eventually had to close the windows while sleeping instead of enjoying the fresh air.

And then our son became a toddler and we needed a larger place. We started searching for a house in a neighborhood with other families. We looked at a bunch of moo bans--this was over a year ago--but what we found was really depressing. In the nice ones with decent-seeming expat families the rents started at B30K for something unfurnished and falling apart, and went up to B45-60K for something we would have found acceptable.

We could have afforded that but we felt that those rents were, and still are, just ridiculous for northern Thailand. FYI folks, the GDP per capita and average wage in TH are about a tenth of US figures. Rents and labor costs should therefore be at least roughly in line with that ratio. Of course I realize that these were upmarket neighborhoods, but as I noted in the original post, the rents we saw in CM were already pricier than in nice small towns in the US--and the houses and neighborhoods were no better, in fact worse I would say.

We found a house for a more reasonable price--still too high for Thailand, really--a ways out of town. The Thai neighbors are very nice. But the neighborhood doesn't really have any English-speaking kids our son's age. One of our farang neighbors has an older child who has to take a van to school, I think a one hour commute each way, and I think the kid has no playmates in this moo ban.

If we had no kids, we'd probably be happy in a small house or apartment in a quieter part of CM, and we'd travel enough that the drawbacks of CM wouldn't bother us too much. But we do have kids, and the last straw for us was the difficulty of finding a nanny despite considerable effort, as described in a recent thread. So we are now planning to leave Chiang Mai, for one of the surrounding towns or further afield, and maybe out of TH altogether.

Any suggestions for places to live in Asia--places that are family-friendly, safe, and have reasonably good healthcare and Internet, and that are cheaper than CM? We've tried Chiang Rai (too spread out, not enough supply of decent housing), Costa Rica (unsafe, overpriced), Philippines (terrible internet, roads, and airports, with rents and healthcare costs that are generally higher than TH's).

Ever hear the tern: Champagne tastes on a beer budget? 60K per rent? That would be in the top 1% for the country. A nanny? really? I smell an NGO.

[MaeJoMTB]

We found a house for a more reasonable price--still too high for Thailand, really--a ways out of town. The Thai neighbors are very nice. But the neighborhood doesn't really have any English-speaking kids our son's age. One of our farang neighbors has an older child who has to take a van to school, I think a one hour commute each way, and I think the kid has no playmates in this moo ban.

So, you should have put the kid in the local Thai kindergarten.

At toddler age, he will learn the local language in 2-3 months.

Our boy age 3 started school speaking English/Central Thai ..... 6 months later at school he speaks Lanna.

Segregating your children damages them.

No friends, no language opportunities.

He doesn't care what language he speaks, or those around him speak.

[ardokano]

I can't understand someone who is so negative about a place, but continue to live there. Be it Chiang Mai, Pattaya, Phuket, or wherever. If you don't like it, then look for someplace else that suits you better. No place is perfect, and never will be. You tally up the good and the bad, and if the good outweighs the bad, you stay. If not, move on. For me, the "good" of Chiang Mai far and away outweighs the bad, and I love it here.

A very simple answer.

Cheap life. And have the benefits of civilization. Where such er price for the same set of services?

[Trujillo]

So you made a bad choice of where to rent. any thing else?

You got it wrong. The place I rent is without question the best plot and house in the mooban. No through traffic, quiet, grass lawn and another bricked area, two carparks, lots of very mature trees, etc. If I could buy this place and the landlord would sell (he's part of the crowd that thinks his land is the same value as that fronting Nathon Road in Hong Kong), I would buy it.

When I moved in the clodhopper woman's handiwork was not quite as seasoned as it is now (I was told she was easing back into her natural state after being finger-waggled at, and later installed a pipe to funnel her waste/effluent into the soi gutter, but spilling out starting at her next door neighbor).

She's just a pathetic and rude part of the landscape -- and is at the other end of the soi, although I have to go past that every time I want to go out.

The rest of the stuff is not actively troublesome; when I said people are aloof and never say hi (unless I say it first to them), I don't mean that they are aggressively bad to me. No one throws dog turds or anything at me.

When I see great-grandpa with his partner 40 years his junior, I don't think, "Degenerate old horndog!" I think, "Dude! nice work." And I never confuse it for reciprocating love.

To be honest, it's a bit like living in some freak show.

To answer the OP: "What's so great about Chiang Mai"? Nothing really, but you can be left to do it your way if you like.

As for the tree that fell over, that can be righted and held in place with supports for a while and it will reestablish itself. Might have to wait a year, but by the photo, it's a good candidate.

[Robert24]

A lot of informative posts here.

Some not so informative. Some infuriating. The guy who described B100/hour for housekeeping work as "slavery" (because he is happy to pay even more than that?) is most likely part of the problem--the #1 problem for us, and also for many Thais here--of foreigners driving up prices.

A few years ago my (farang) wife and I, and <1-yr old baby, were happy here. We lived in a very nice, ~$500/mo 1BR apartment with a fantastic view of Doi Suthep. Kad Suan Kaew was a 10 minute scooter ride away; Maya when it opened was 5 minutes away.

Then the noise at night started getting worse, so that we eventually had to close the windows while sleeping instead of enjoying the fresh air.

And then our son became a toddler and we needed a larger place. We started searching for a house in a neighborhood with other families. We looked at a bunch of moo bans--this was over a year ago--but what we found was really depressing. In the nice ones with decent-seeming expat families the rents started at B30K for something unfurnished and falling apart, and went up to B45-60K for something we would have found acceptable.

We could have afforded that but we felt that those rents were, and still are, just ridiculous for northern Thailand. FYI folks, the GDP per capita and average wage in TH are about a tenth of US figures. Rents and labor costs should therefore be at least roughly in line with that ratio. Of course I realize that these were upmarket neighborhoods, but as I noted in the original post, the rents we saw in CM were already pricier than in nice small towns in the US--and the houses and neighborhoods were no better, in fact worse I would say.

We found a house for a more reasonable price--still too high for Thailand, really--a ways out of town. The Thai neighbors are very nice. But the neighborhood doesn't really have any English-speaking kids our son's age. One of our farang neighbors has an older child who has to take a van to school, I think a one hour commute each way, and I think the kid has no playmates in this moo ban.

If we had no kids, we'd probably be happy in a small house or apartment in a quieter part of CM, and we'd travel enough that the drawbacks of CM wouldn't bother us too much. But we do have kids, and the last straw for us was the difficulty of finding a nanny despite considerable effort, as described in a recent thread. So we are now planning to leave Chiang Mai, for one of the surrounding towns or further afield, and maybe out of TH altogether.

Any suggestions for places to live in Asia--places that are family-friendly, safe, and have reasonably good healthcare and Internet, and that are cheaper than CM? We've tried Chiang Rai (too spread out, not enough supply of decent housing), Costa Rica (unsafe, overpriced), Philippines (terrible internet, roads, and airports, with rents and healthcare costs that are generally higher than TH's).

you can move to a nice gated community, upscale, sort of upper middle class and rent a nice 3 BR house for 15k. No need to pay more. And you live in a big gated community with everything you need, perfect environment to grow up in my opinion. Plenty of Thai upper middle class families, retirees etc and some farang as well. Such nice gated communities are about a 15-20 min drive from the city center. Now in my opinion this is perfect. Tell me another city that has everything you want and you can live such a short drive away from the city center?

To me this is one of the best places to live. Of course you can move to another city in Asia. I've worked in different places. Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Tokyo and travelled many places in Asia. On balance Chiang Mai for me is on top of the list in terms of quality of life. But at the end it's a personal choice.

[Trujillo]

Cheap life. And have the benefits of civilization. Where such er price for the same set of services?

Philippines, maybe? They also have the soft underbelly that many of the folks here enjoy.

By the way, I think the idea that, "You can just move somewhere else if you don't like it," is a flawed theory.

I think many men (most retirees here are men) make a decision and move to Thailand/Chiang Mai and have set up here as a one-time exercise. Not everyone is so wealthy they can try Thailand for a while, then try Cambodia and then maybe Malaysia. For many, this move to Thailand was the retirement move. It's not like trying on shoes.

If it played out to not be all the brochure said it was going to be, you just have to suck in up and make the best of it.

[ardokano]

A nanny? really? I smell an NGO.

Ha Ha

What problem nanny? And "good" maid i guess in Thailand dificult find , ant its cost not cheap in Thailand, in Macao or HK its be cheapest week 6 day 24 hour cost 500-600 $+ food.

[piewarmer]

Chiang Mai's international airport makes it easy to get away without a long commute,

Heaps of awesome well maintained mountain roads in Northern Thailand,

very few police or traffic outside town so you only need to watch your speedo on major roads.

4 months a year of cooler weather, unlike the south. Not as much wet weather either.

You can walk around at night without idiots picking a fight. The people here local and expat seem

to be better quality than the many tossers in Pattaya and Phuket..

You rarely get accosted by people selling time share, suits, food or massage, sure, they ask you too come in

but they don't stand in front of you as they do in the southern resort areas.

for negatives read the previous 161 posts.

Lovin it.

[ardokano]

Cheap life. And have the benefits of civilization. Where such er price for the same set of services?

Philippines, maybe? They also have the soft underbelly that many of the folks here enjoy.

By the way, I think the idea that, "You can just move somewhere else if you don't like it," is a flawed theory.

I think many men (most retirees here are men) make a decision and move to Thailand/Chiang Mai and have set up here as a one-time exercise. Not everyone is so wealthy they can try Thailand for a while, then try Cambodia and then maybe Malaysia. For many, this move to Thailand was the retirement move. It's not like trying on shoes.

If it played out to not be all the brochure said it was going to be, you just have to suck in up and make the best of it.

Infrastructure in the Philippines worse.

Crime up in Philipin.

Medical servise in Thailand batter.

I honestly. I am stay in Thailand because now broken, and in Chiang Mai it be cheapest cost for NEAR civilisiation life.

Edited January 2, 2016 by ardokano

[Trujillo]

I honestly. I am stay in Thailand because now broken, and in Chiang may it be cheapest cost for NEAR civilisiation life.

Excellent! We should make this into a T-shirt.

[ardokano]

Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Tokyo and travelled many places in Asia. On balance Chiang Mai for me is on top of the list in terms of quality of life. But at the end it's a personal choice.

Ofcouse Chiang Mai in my opinion nice place in World.

But "top of the list in terms of quality of life" can say if If you do not pay attention

security, protection of the law(police), availability of goods and services and some another thinks.

[sappersrest]

Banter68 please re read my post I was inferring that the min wage as the op refers to is a little over $3 in the US ,in my book that is slavery wages for a developed western nation

100 baht per hour is a good wage for a Thai or Burmese person with no skills good luck to them if they can get it.

"Some not so informative. Some infuriating. The guy who described B100/hour for housekeeping work as "slavery" (because he is happy to pay even more than that?) is most likely part of the problem--the #1 problem for us, and also for many Thais here--of foreigners driving up prices."

Ps I pay my house keeper an absolute fortune she gets use of a car shopping in Robinsons whenever she likes and gets taken out to expensive restaurants and is also a signatory on my bank account and credit card!!!

[khwaibah]

Chiang Mai is NUMBER 1 for New Years highway accidents according to the front page of the Bangkok Post.

Edited January 2, 2016 by khwaibah

[Puwa]

This thread goes a long way towards explaining the expressions I see on so many expats' faces.

Happiness here, or anywhere, comes down to keeping yourself occupied doing something you like. Maybe that means work, but I suspect that to many posters who are retired or otherwise self-sufficient, it means hobbies. Chiang Mai is great for some hobbies, bad for others.

Cyclists, hikers, golfers, farmers, gardeners, photographers, cooks, linguists, artists, general tinkerers, and others seem to do pretty well.

By contrast, surfers, scuba divers, theatergoers, fans of the opera, amateur city planners, would-be traffic advisors, fine-wine enthusiasts, stock-car racers, museum aficionados, all-night ravers, big-game hunters, and Indian-restaurant critics seem to have a rough time.

Complaining about "the women" in any city is bad form. I'd hate to think that a man can reach retirement age and not undesrtand that failing to get laid is his own fault, not the collective shortcoming of several hundred thousand eligible ladies around him.

Living well always costs something. But how well to live and how much to pay are such individual, subjective preferences that debate is fruitless.

A few things do truly suck in Chiang Mai, including the annual haze problem. But the worst of it is short-lived and predictably timed, therefore easy to plan around. Direct flights to Krabi help a lot. Immigration is absurd, but there are workarounds; it's been years since I've gone near the CM Immigration office. Traffic is only bad if you get caught unawares, but again a little planning and restraint go a long way.

Chiang Mai is not for everyone, but why should it be, and what place is?

[northernjohn]

We found a house for a more reasonable price--still too high for Thailand, really--a ways out of town. The Thai neighbors are very nice. But the neighborhood doesn't really have any English-speaking kids our son's age. One of our farang neighbors has an older child who has to take a van to school, I think a one hour commute each way, and I think the kid has no playmates in this moo ban.

So, you should have put the kid in the local Thai kindergarten.

At toddler age, he will learn the local language in 2-3 months.

Our boy age 3 started school speaking English/Central Thai ..... 6 months later at school he speaks Lanna.

Segregating your children damages them.

No friends, no language opportunities.

He doesn't care what language he speaks, or those around him speak.

That is a tremendous gift you are giving him.

Well done.

As I look back on it I never had the chance for that and it would never have

crossed my parents mind back then. Today I wish it had happened.

[northernjohn]

This thread goes a long way towards explaining the expressions I see on so many expats' faces.

Happiness here, or anywhere, comes down to keeping yourself occupied doing something you like. Maybe that means work, but I suspect that to many posters who are retired or otherwise self-sufficient, it means hobbies. Chiang Mai is great for some hobbies, bad for others.

Cyclists, hikers, golfers, farmers, gardeners, photographers, cooks, linguists, artists, general tinkerers, and others seem to do pretty well.

By contrast, surfers, scuba divers, theatergoers, fans of the opera, amateur city planners, would-be traffic advisors, fine-wine enthusiasts, stock-car racers, museum aficionados, all-night ravers, big-game hunters, and Indian-restaurant critics seem to have a rough time.

Complaining about "the women" in any city is bad form. I'd hate to think that a man can reach retirement age and not undesrtand that failing to get laid is his own fault, not the collective shortcoming of several hundred thousand eligible ladies around him.

Living well always costs something. But how well to live and how much to pay are such individual, subjective preferences that debate is fruitless.

A few things do truly suck in Chiang Mai, including the annual haze problem. But the worst of it is short-lived and predictably timed, therefore easy to plan around. Direct flights to Krabi help a lot. Immigration is absurd, but there are workarounds; it's been years since I've gone near the CM Immigration office. Traffic is only bad if you get caught unawares, but again a little planning and restraint go a long way.

Chiang Mai is not for everyone, but why should it be, and what place is?

Great post

One question.

How do you get around having your picture taken at immigration?

[northernjohn]

Cheap life. And have the benefits of civilization. Where such er price for the same set of services?

Philippines, maybe? They also have the soft underbelly that many of the folks here enjoy.

By the way, I think the idea that, "You can just move somewhere else if you don't like it," is a flawed theory.

I think many men (most retirees here are men) make a decision and move to Thailand/Chiang Mai and have set up here as a one-time exercise. Not everyone is so wealthy they can try Thailand for a while, then try Cambodia and then maybe Malaysia. For many, this move to Thailand was the retirement move. It's not like trying on shoes.

If it played out to not be all the brochure said it was going to be, you just have to suck in up and make the best of it.

I really don't know what you are talking about. I never read a brochure. I visited a couple of times and when I felt like where I was living no longer served my purposes I moved here to Chiang Mai one other place here in Thailand I would consider and a lot of places I haven't been. Bali also appeals to me. I like so many others did not as you imply move here to die.

Right Now Chiang Mai suits me fine. If it doesn't I have alternatives. To each there own but I am only 74 and looking forward to a nice future if I have to relocate so be it. Of course this is all subject to health problems that can occur. From what I hear Bali health care is not that good.

[MaeJoMTB]

Just when I was about to start giving a lot more credibility to the expats living in the Philippines; I watched a documentary on ChannelNewsAsia basically about the serious malnutrition problems. 30,000 kids die every year from it. Nothing genetically makes the Filipinos short; it is strictly lack of nutrients. "Stunting" affects a huge number. It also affects their ability to learn and earn. The Catholic Church makes the problem exponentially worse. Good cigars, though.

Thais are the same.

Feed them western food, and they turn out a western shape and size.

[Aussie69]

The really big bitch I have about Chiang Mai now is they are no longer bringing in two and some times three good movies a week. My movie interests are still the same.

The answer to your woes is called BitTorrent [emoji12]

[NancyL]

This thread goes a long way towards explaining the expressions I see on so many expats' faces.

Happiness here, or anywhere, comes down to keeping yourself occupied doing something you like. Maybe that means work, but I suspect that to many posters who are retired or otherwise self-sufficient, it means hobbies. Chiang Mai is great for some hobbies, bad for others.

Cyclists, hikers, golfers, farmers, gardeners, photographers, cooks, linguists, artists, general tinkerers, and others seem to do pretty well.

By contrast, surfers, scuba divers, theatergoers, fans of the opera, amateur city planners, would-be traffic advisors, fine-wine enthusiasts, stock-car racers, museum aficionados, all-night ravers, big-game hunters, and Indian-restaurant critics seem to have a rough time.

Complaining about "the women" in any city is bad form. I'd hate to think that a man can reach retirement age and not undesrtand that failing to get laid is his own fault, not the collective shortcoming of several hundred thousand eligible ladies around him.

Living well always costs something. But how well to live and how much to pay are such individual, subjective preferences that debate is fruitless.

A few things do truly suck in Chiang Mai, including the annual haze problem. But the worst of it is short-lived and predictably timed, therefore easy to plan around. Direct flights to Krabi help a lot. Immigration is absurd, but there are workarounds; it's been years since I've gone near the CM Immigration office. Traffic is only bad if you get caught unawares, but again a little planning and restraint go a long way.

Chiang Mai is not for everyone, but why should it be, and what place is?

Great post

One question.

How do you get around having your picture taken at immigration?

NorthernJohn, there are several ways you can live in Chiang Mai and never have to set foot in CM Immigration. You can get a ThaiElite visa (purchased for a cool 500,000 baht, but it's good for 5 years) and travel enough that you never have to do a 90 day report or simply pay someone to do it for you. As I understand it, you still have to do something annually, but the ThaiElite people in Bangkok have limos and lovely assistants to help you.

Another option, probably more realistic for retirees, is to return to your home country every couple years and apply for a new O-A visa. If you properly manage your travel out of Thailand (even quick border hops) you can get nearly two years of life out of an O-A visa. 90 day reports can be handled by mail, perhaps by internet if the stars align (doubtful), with strategic travel, or by paying someone a modest annual fee.

Viola -- no need to ever show your face at Chiang Mai Immigration.

But then, you'd miss seeing the latest Hollywood blockbuster at the SF Cinema @Prom, wouldn't you NJ? It's just not the same as downloading it from the internet and watching it on your laptop.

[connda]

For those who say it isn't a beautiful country anymore, there is still plenty of beauty around, even in Chiang Mai. It is a little easy for me to find here in Chiang Rai but there is beauty in lots of places if you simply look. Granted I have it a little easier than most cause all I have to do is look out the front door.

Agreed, although this is Lamphun Province and I don't have the greatest camera in the world. Lol