What's so great about Chiang Mai?

[bangmai]

Hopefully the public utilities will eventually bury those overhead line, and your view will be even better. Lol

Creating sub terrain power is expensive & complex

Some day perhaps. Right now Thailand's electrical infrastructure looks like something out of the early19th century United States.

Wires.jpg

but your photo looks a lot more like the early 20th century.

[CMBob]

but your photo looks a lot more like the early 20th century.

You're closer. Using a reverse image lookup, his photo is of the Great Blizzard of 1888.

[dhream]

Yeah I have to agree, it's changed so much, for the worse.

The Thais will develop it until it's lost any semblance of the charm of the old city.

The Chinese invasion has had a huge impact too.

Maybe one has to be a foreigner to appreciate somewhere that the locals don't?

Anyway, the smaller towns of the North are far nicer places to live.

I can't see how the Chinese tourists are any worse than others. Having been to China, I know that the people that can afford to tour here are beacons of refinement compared to the true peasant masses. Most Chinese tourists I've seen here are better dressed and behaved than the westerners, the Thais claim the Chinese tip more than any other race too. we can sit and moan, or we can accept a new world order, and capitalise on it, like the Thais do.

Sorry dhream, the bit about tipping is absolute baloney.

The Thais I speak to all say the Chines are the cheapest of the lot.

They walk rather than catch a taxi, haggle over 5 baht, the group tours ferry them from place to place where everything is prepaid.

They spend very little.

Don't know where you get your info from.

I have a mainland Chinese mate, and he agrees his countrymen are tightwads, but he himself can be generous another Chinese Malaysian mate I get very cross with as he pays bargirls 4K longtime. Anyway, I was told this by a tourguide over dinner, she's my missus pal. Maybe she had an agenda, I myself was surprised, even with two mates who have been known to splash out. I'm only recounting her claim. I can't see why she would say that to me, I won't be tipping her anytime soon.

[dhream]

Traffic will kill this Golden Goose. Chiang Mai is becoming a visctim of it's own success, with substantial parts of the city untouchable in regards to road development.

Bad as the traffic is now, I predict the city will be gridlocked by 2020.

Easily solved, city tolls, like everywhere else is doing, the locals are notorious tightwads, especially the luxury car set, they'll stay away, unless of course, they scam that system too. This time in 20 years google cars will be global. No dildo driver. Just a smart little e car.

[seedy]

one Off Topic foto hidden

[jobin]

A very ineffectual police force contributes to the poor traffic flow. Getting into and out of the city on Chotana Road is not nice at all. Motorbikes clog the lanes, turn where forbidden and are a wobbly threat to car drivers.

[FolkGuitar]

A very ineffectual police force contributes to the poor traffic flow. Getting into and out of the city on Chotana Road is not nice at all. Motorbikes clog the lanes, turn where forbidden and are a wobbly threat to car drivers.

Chotana Road is a quick and easy way into and out of the city. Or at least it would be if more people used motorbikes. 10 people on motor bikes take up the space of one car with one person in it. Although only two lanes of traffic, car drivers attempt to turn it into three lanes, blocking the smooth flow of motorbikes. 400 motorbikes could clear the city at each turn of the traffic signal instead of only 100 cars, significantly reducing the congestion and increasing the traffic flow. This would also reduce the personal injury rate as cars juggling for position hit the motorbike riders.

It would be wonderful to see Chiang Mai adopt the same device used in downtown Singapore; controlled access via dash-mounted electronic card reader. Pay to enter the downtown area with a vehicle. Put an overpass card reader at all four corners of the Moat, charge 20 baht to enter or cross the Old City area, and traffic congestion would become a thing of the past. People would circle the city rather than drive through it, adding to the traffic jams in town. Or put them further outwards, at the Superhighway junctions, and reduce all tie-ups.

[LarryBird]

The people advocating motorcycle use to combat the terrible traffic and roads don't realize that they're making the argument for what's wrong with ChiangMai. They are recommending to partake in a dangerous activity in order to combat a negative situation which isn't going anywhere.. It ignores facts like perhaps some people may be the bread winner for their family and can't afford to take such risks. Having mouths to feed, and no legal avenue to recoup lost wages if some clown knocks one off their motorcycle is a perfectly legitimate reason to never step on a motorcycle. It's sort of like telling people the Berlin Wall isn't a problem if you have a catapult to launch yourself over it with.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I can't see how the Chinese tourists are any worse than others. Having been to China, I know that the people that can afford to tour here are beacons of refinement compared to the true peasant masses. Most Chinese tourists I've seen here are better dressed and behaved than the westerners, the Thais claim the Chinese tip more than any other race too. we can sit and moan, or we can accept a new world order, and capitalise on it, like the Thais do.

Yes, agree completely.

Sorry dhream, the bit about tipping is absolute baloney.

The Thais I speak to all say the Chines are the cheapest of the lot.

They walk rather than catch a taxi, haggle over 5 baht, the group tours ferry them from place to place where everything is prepaid.

They spend very little.

Maybe you speak to Thais who haven't figured it out yet. Also with the 'group tour' mention you're just parroting Farang 'wisdom' from the past and/or other parts of the country: most Chinese visitors to Chiang Mai travel independently. Families, groups of friends, etc. Personally I visit shopping malls as little as possible but I was at Festival this weekend buying shoes. The shop by the brand I wanted had lots of Chinese in it, buying shoes that cost in the 3000-6000 Baht range. That's not spending very little, that's major shopping. There's a reason why all major chains are actively marketing to Chinese tourists with discounts, transportation and info in Chinese, sometimes hiring Chinese speaking staff.

These are the Thais who've figured it out.

And if they haggle with a tuk tuk driver or whatever lazy seller dude at the Night Bazar: GOOD!

I have a mainland Chinese mate, and he agrees his countrymen are tightwads, but he himself can be generous another Chinese Malaysian mate I get very cross with as he pays bargirls 4K longtime. Anyway, I was told this by a tourguide over dinner, she's my missus pal. Maybe she had an agenda, I myself was surprised, even with two mates who have been known to splash out. I'm only recounting her claim. I can't see why she would say that to me, I won't be tipping her anytime soon.

Huh..? Anyway the part I understood is you getting cross for someone dropping 4K on some gal. Personally I think that's great; they deserve to get lucky occasionally, plus if they tell everyone then that brings in more of her friends and sisters. Some old git (like me) paying yesteryear's money isn't going to move that industry forward for Chiang Mai.

[suzannegoh]

So then we all agree that Chiang Mai is just about perfect?

[BB24]

Not so great if you cannot stand the extreme smoke/smog every year - anytime from Jan-May. Also not so good if you do not like the ever-growing hordes of loud/rude Chinese tourists and the ever growing traffic problems - second only to Bangkok in those two regards. Overall, I would say that CM is definitely not as great as the reviews made by bloggers IMO. Is CM a great example of fool's gold, or is it a pig in a poke? Maybe, but I would say that it is what you make of it - just like most places in Thailand. Personally, I couldn't take the worsening annual 'smoke season', and that was why I left last year. If that ever stopped, I would think about moving back. But then again, those Chinese tourists can be.........

[Craig krup]

"Labor costs are way up. Many housekeepers think they should be paid B100/hour, which is approaching a US minimum wage level". .

I thought slavery was abolished years ago, So you can hire labour at just over $3 an hour in the US???

In answer to your question my wife and I came from the UKto take early retirement here ,House rentals are half of what they are in the uk Municipal tax (council tax is the equivalent to 6000 baht per month

Electriciy gas and water come to around an average of 5000 Baht per month.

The weather is nicer and we are well placed in Asia to travel.

Thai people are very friendly and have made us most welcome here especially in the community we live in

We don,t read or speak much Thai so we are pretty oblivious to all that political crap that we get atat home.

I enjoy not living in a nanny state as well

As far as I am concerned I am living in paradise.

Ignore me as a nosy get if you like, but I take it you were....er.....Ubique?

[Craig krup]

The philosopher Robert Nozick pointed out that if two cafes are equally good, but people go to a cafe to see and be seen, then one of them will win out because everybody, to see and be seen, has to go to one or the other.

Chiang Mai had a critical mass of farangs because it was on the hippy trail, which meant that more went and some stayed, which meant that services developed, which meant that more went...

Khon Kaen or Udon would be reasonable guesses for where will be "found and wrecked" by 2040.

[Craig krup]

Not so great if you cannot stand the extreme smoke/smog every year - anytime from Jan-May. Also not so good if you do not like the ever-growing hordes of loud/rude Chinese tourists and the ever growing traffic problems - second only to Bangkok in those two regards. Overall, I would say that CM is definitely not as great as the reviews made by bloggers IMO. Is CM a great example of fool's gold, or is it a pig in a poke? Maybe, but I would say that it is what you make of it - just like most places in Thailand. Personally, I couldn't take the worsening annual 'smoke season', and that was why I left last year. If that ever stopped, I would think about moving back. But then again, those Chinese tourists can be.........

Why people are so quick to buy condos is the amazing thing. "Ron" from Portland, Oregon rents away from Chiang Mai in the summer because he bought and now can't stand the heat, smog and noise. When you're tearing up about how beautiful Nong Thin park in Nong Khai is that's nature's way of telling you that you're living in a hell hole.

Rule one in a developing country - rent.

[incidentally, Nong Thin is a bloody lovely park. If you're killing time on a visa run go for a wander.]

[sappersrest]

"Labor costs are way up. Many housekeepers think they should be paid B100/hour, which is approaching a US minimum wage level". .

I thought slavery was abolished years ago, So you can hire labour at just over $3 an hour in the US???

In answer to your question my wife and I came from the UKto take early retirement here ,House rentals are half of what they are in the uk Municipal tax (council tax is the equivalent to 6000 baht per month

Electriciy gas and water come to around an average of 5000 Baht per month.

The weather is nicer and we are well placed in Asia to travel.

Thai people are very friendly and have made us most welcome here especially in the community we live in

We don,t read or speak much Thai so we are pretty oblivious to all that political crap that we get atat home.

I enjoy not living in a nanny state as well

As far as I am concerned I am living in paradise.

Ignore me as a nosy get if you like, but I take it you were....er.....Ubique?

Yes defiantly ,to infinity and beyond!!!!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

So then we all agree that Chiang Mai is just about perfect?

Not perfect, but it's getting better all the time.

Also if it was perfect than there would be even more tourists here, making it less perfect.

Perfection is a moving target.

[LarryBird]

Haha Winnie, that was a point I meant to mention. If I actually thought this place was amazing, I wouldn't be recruiting others to come and spoil it..

[Nowisee]

Get on that motorbike and get up into those hills, love it.

Riding the mountains around northern Thailand is an absolute biker's delight! 99% of the roads are in good condition, twisty enough to keep you on your toes, with vistas that are a delight to the eye. There are restaurants every few kilometers, plenty of gas stations, and parks, waterfalls, and rest areas all over. Even the Samoeng Loop is a pleasure to ride for a short 2-3 hour lunch break, without ever getting very far from the Old City.

There are a lot of great little adventures off of that loop... but during the weekend it's not much fun, too many cars. Mon-Fri before or after lunch it's yippeeeee time.

I like that when out riding in the middle of nowhere northern thailand, there is a perfectly serviceable road and internet service. Even the "dirt" roads are a blast to ride with my 250M with road tires... and even the dirt trails are rideable if not rainy season.

ok, time to go ride

[connda]

A walk through the village this afternoon:

Ok, this one shot was taken after the rice was put in during the rainy season. Beautiful though. The next four are from this afternoon.

Note the burning starting in the forest. Locals set the forests on fire to stimulate mushroom growth. Totally sucks.

Of course, I could always go back to the East Bay area and live in a steel shipping contain placed in a parking lot in West Oakland with a nice view of the Bay Bridge and San Francisco for $2K+/mo.......but no thanks!

'xcuse the crappy pictures. The little Cybershot I've got don't take pictures worth a tinker's da*m. They don't do justice to the magnificent view.

[connda]

Hopefully the public utilities will eventually bury those overhead line, and your view will be even better. Lol

Creating sub terrain power is expensive & complex

Some day perhaps. Right now Thailand's electrical infrastructure looks like something out of the early19th century United States.

Wires.jpg

but your photo looks a lot more like the early 20th century.

I stand corrected. Early 1900s/early 20th century.

[CharlieH]

Posts removed.

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[BB24]

A walk through the village this afternoon:

DSC01082.JPG

Ok, this one shot was taken after the rice was put in during the rainy season. Beautiful though. The next four are from this afternoon.

DSC01146.JPG

Note the burning starting in the forest. Locals set the forests on fire to stimulate mushroom growth. Totally sucks.

DSC01152.JPG

DSC01049.JPG

DSC01142.JPG

Of course, I could always go back to the East Bay area and live in a steel shipping contain placed in a parking lot in West Oakland with a nice view of the Bay Bridge and San Francisco for $2K+/mo.......but no thanks!

'xcuse the crappy pictures. The little Cybershot I've got don't take pictures worth a tinker's da*m. They don't do justice to the magnificent view.

Many many places in Thailand with similar and better views. The OP is about CM - not Thailand. But others have taken the matter off-topic a bit and it became about Thailand - and in that vein I agree with you - a lovely place and living is far better than what I/many could afford back 'home'.

CM is fine - as long as the annual smoke doesnt bother you - all the other issues are a matter of personal choice. If I had the money and could live 3-6 mths in CM (Nov to Feb or whenever the smoke becomes bad) and the rest down south/overseas, then I might take up that option. I have met a few Expats who do exactly that - and good luck to them

[MaeJoMTB]

CM is fine - as long as the annual smoke doesnt bother you -

Smoke arrived this morning, and it's a real choker.

The mountains have gone.

[stephenterry]

CM is fine - as long as the annual smoke doesnt bother you -

Smoke arrived this morning, and it's a real choker.

The mountains have gone.[/q

What was you smoking last night?

[sendbaht]

My grandkids live here. Makes it worth it...plus B30 water bill, B35 going out to eat meal (veggie restaurant) B40 once a week trash pick up (and they supply the bags) house paid for (not much of a place but paid for) all this helps too...Nice though to head to a island durning the smoky time...Love it here beside those 3 smoky months. Did not move here for the weather being from LA but it's not to bad.

[stephenterry]

My grandkids live here. Makes it worth it...plus B30 water bill, B35 going out to eat and meal (veggie restaurant) B40 once a week trash pick up (and they supply the bags) house paid for (not much of a place but paid for) all this helps too...Nice though to head to a island durning the smoky time...Love it here.

Do you wash?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

A walk through the village this afternoon:

DSC01082.JPG

Ok, this one shot was taken after the rice was put in during the rainy season. Beautiful though. The next four are from this afternoon.

DSC01146.JPG

Note the burning starting in the forest. Locals set the forests on fire to stimulate mushroom growth. Totally sucks.

DSC01152.JPG

DSC01049.JPG

DSC01142.JPG

Of course, I could always go back to the East Bay area and live in a steel shipping contain placed in a parking lot in West Oakland with a nice view of the Bay Bridge and San Francisco for $2K+/mo.......but no thanks!

'xcuse the crappy pictures. The little Cybershot I've got don't take pictures worth a tinker's da*m. They don't do justice to the magnificent view.

That's clearly Lamphun. You're disqualified from the 'What's great about Chiang Mai" topic, but thank you for playing.

Seriously though, I've toyed with the idea of looking at land in the middle of nowhere in Lamphun, but close to the railway line on one of the smaller stations, which would make it accessible in a retro kind of way, taking the old clunker train into town.. Even went out there for that reason once, but didn't proceed with it.

[sendbaht]

My grandkids live here. Makes it worth it...plus B30 water bill, B35 going out to eat meal (veggie restaurant) B40 once a week trash pick up (and they supply the bags) house paid for (not much of a place but paid for) all this helps too...Nice though to head to a island durning the smoky time...Love it here beside those 3 smoky months. Did not move here for the weather being from LA but it's not to bad.

Nope don't but wife does....we have well water plus all water the community has set up which cost B30 baht a month..Have to pay 6 months though in advance:) ... We actuarially live in Mae Rim....close enough to CM.

But, that was a good question...thanks

[stephenterry]

My grandkids live here. Makes it worth it...plus B30 water bill, B35 going out to eat meal (veggie restaurant) B40 once a week trash pick up (and they supply the bags) house paid for (not much of a place but paid for) all this helps too...Nice though to head to a island durning the smoky time...Love it here beside those 3 smoky months. Did not move here for the weather being from LA but it's not to bad.

Nope don't but wife does....we have well water plus all water the community has set up which cost B30 baht a month..Have to pay 6 months though in advance:) ... We actuarially live in Mae Rim....close enough to CM.

But, that was a good question...thanks

Ah yes, the well water. Here in CM I pay 160 baht a month for government water. Three adults showering twice a day, washing machine twice a week and daily gardening water hosing. Apart from the washing up. Can't beat that for value. Unless you have a well, that is.

[Robert24]

Not so great if you cannot stand the extreme smoke/smog every year - anytime from Jan-May. Also not so good if you do not like the ever-growing hordes of loud/rude Chinese tourists and the ever growing traffic problems - second only to Bangkok in those two regards. Overall, I would say that CM is definitely not as great as the reviews made by bloggers IMO. Is CM a great example of fool's gold, or is it a pig in a poke? Maybe, but I would say that it is what you make of it - just like most places in Thailand. Personally, I couldn't take the worsening annual 'smoke season', and that was why I left last year. If that ever stopped, I would think about moving back. But then again, those Chinese tourists can be.........

so where did you move to?