Koh Tao debacle: Shoddy work from beginning to end

[greenchair]

Fine take out the Dna that you say doesn't exist even the defenses own witness found a part match of the 2nd defendant.

Most murders do not have witnesses. Convictions are based on accumulations of circumstantial evidence that all put together create a probability of guilt.

Going for a swim in the rain means nothing.

Leaving your stuff at the beach, an easy thing to do.

Leaving butts at the beach, next or near a murder scene could happen to anyone.

Going to the beach at 5am, nothing wrong with that.

Finding a phone on the beach, I'm sure it's happened for many people. The phone belonging to someone that has just been murdered. Now you see, the realm of probability is now wearing very thin.

When you put it all together, as the judge said, absolutely unbelievable.

[Khun Han]

"In response to the defense team’s repeated calls for access to forensic evidence that the prosecution said links Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to the rape and murder,

police revealed in court that swabs taken from semen found in Witheridge’s body are no longer available because they were “used up” in the original testing, which was conducted privately.”

"Only two people were present for the entire process: a police officer and a police doctor. There were no photographs of the process, either.”

“When we mentioned this in the court, they quipped that we have been watching too much CSI."

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1436774626

As I have mentioned before, a quip like that would have earned a stern ticking-off from the judge in a real court of law.

[somo]

Fine take out the Dna that you say doesn't exist even the defenses own witness found a part match of the 2nd defendant.

Most murders do not have witnesses. Convictions are based on accumulations of circumstantial evidence that all put together create a probability of guilt.

Going for a swim in the rain means nothing.

Leaving your stuff at the beach, an easy thing to do.

Leaving butts at the beach, next or near a murder scene could happen to anyone.

Going to the beach at 5am, nothing wrong with that.

Finding a phone on the beach, I'm sure it's happened for many people. The phone belonging to someone that has just been murdered. Now you see, the realm of probability is now wearing very thin.

When you put it all together, as the judge said, absolutely unbelievable.

I am pleased you at last concede there is no DNA evidence and no eye witnesses. That is a start.

You also concede that all the other bits and pieces on their own are meaningless.

The last hurdle you need to overcome in your irrational thinking is that a combination of of minor events is enough to sentence someone to death. They may imply something but prove nothing and that is why you should understand that suspicion is not enough. You need hard evidence before you condemn someone to death and there is none.

If there is please state it here but of course you cannot as there is none as you have already conceded.

[Khun Han]

Fine take out the Dna that you say doesn't exist even the defenses own witness found a part match of the 2nd defendant.

Most murders do not have witnesses. Convictions are based on accumulations of circumstantial evidence that all put together create a probability of guilt.

Going for a swim in the rain means nothing.

Leaving your stuff at the beach, an easy thing to do.

Leaving butts at the beach, next or near a murder scene could happen to anyone.

Going to the beach at 5am, nothing wrong with that.

Finding a phone on the beach, I'm sure it's happened for many people. The phone belonging to someone that has just been murdered. Now you see, the realm of probability is now wearing very thin.

When you put it all together, as the judge said, absolutely unbelievable.

It's only wearing thin in your scheme of things. On the other hand, all the possibilities of non-involvement by the Tuvichien clan and their police friends/beneficiaries wore out completely a long time ago due to them being so clearly laid out here and elsewhere time and time again. But you and your team just stick your fingers in your ears when it comes to all those particular glaring discrepancies, and I don't even have to wonder why.

[bannork]

"One of the translators, Ko Ye, admitted to the Samui Central Court yesterday that he could not read or write Thai and barely understood the Rakhine dialect."

"Under questioning from the defense, he said that he signed a statement confirming what happened in the interrogation even though he didn’t know what it said in Thai,

and he wasn’t asked to sign it until a month afterward."

http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/16101-thai-police-used-roti-vendors-as-translators.html

That link is wrong when it says both roti sellers have a poor understanding of Thai language.

As can be seen from the Channel 3 interview above, the first roti seller, not referred to by Andy Hall, can speak and understand Thai clearly.

Now did he set up the Burmese 2, or did he really understand what they said?

He says he did and they confessed- but then he was a police volunteer.

[Khun Han]

I believe it is possible to go something like this.

A group were playing the guitar, hannah was walking back alone. The group grabbed her raped her and possibly beat her unconscious. David stumbled onto it a fight broke out and david was beaten and stabbed someone picked up the hoe and smashed hannah. Everybody ran. The b2 stopped to swim and cleanse themselves. Went back to room.

The next morning Muang woke b2 and they went back to get belongings. But there were people about so Could not get shoe and guitar. The investigation changed after the friend confessed about phone. Nobody covered up. The rest is history

So why do you think that all the Koh Tao locals covered it up for the B2?

I don't see any reason why Mon especially went to such great lengths to help them out. It would not be in his best interests to help out 2 foreigners get away with murdering 2 of his customers.

You're mentioning a Tuvichien Matt. greenchair and the team don't want the Tuvichiens brought into this.

I know that's the whole reason that these guys (but probably singular) spend all day on here lying about everything to try and push their version if events to the board. It's beyond pathetic if you think about what is really happening.

It mightn't have been a big deal if they were shilling a product. But shilling to cover up a double murder and support the death sentence for a couple of scapegoats. Some people (one of them's clearly a sociopath, but the others, well).....ugh!!!

[iReason]

"Zaw Lin then told the court in Koh Samui, Thailand, today that the men asked him some questions through a translator before stripping him naked in an air conditioned room and putting a plastic bag tightly over his head."

“I bit through the bag to be able to breathe so they put another bag on top of that one and the translator asked me:

“Did you kill?” When I said “No”, they put another bag over my head and pulled it tight around my neck."

“The translator then asked me again: “Did you kill or not?” Then I collapsed on the floor.”

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/i_was_tortured_to_confess_murdering_hannah_witheridge_accused_tells_court_today_1_4216927

[iReason]

“One of the translators, named Ko Ye, admitted to the defense team that he signed a statement confirming what was said during the interrogation even though it was written in the Thai language, which he could not read.”

“Wai Phyo said the translator accused him of being party to mob violence against Rohingya in their homeland, he asked me, when the riots started in Burma, where were you?"

"Did you burn down my village?”

http://time.com/4005983/koh-tao-murder-trial-interpreters-backpackers/

Edited January 20, 2016 by iReason

[bannork]

"Zaw Lin then told the court in Koh Samui, Thailand, today that the men asked him some questions through a translator before stripping him naked in an air conditioned room and putting a plastic bag tightly over his head."

“I bit through the bag to be able to breathe so they put another bag on top of that one and the translator asked me:

“Did you kill?” When I said “No”, they put another bag over my head and pulled it tight around my neck."

“The translator then asked me again: “Did you kill or not?” Then I collapsed on the floor.”

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/i_was_tortured_to_confess_murdering_hannah_witheridge_accused_tells_court_today_1_4216927

And how do you know Lin is telling the truth?

[AleG]

what is the likelyhood of being hit 10 times with a weapon that caused flesh injuries , and then not being able to locate the victims DNA on the weapon ? AliG what say u ?

I say that neither you, nor your fellow armchair detectives have bothered to read the judgement report:

"On the 17th September 2014, Pol.Col. Dr. Pawat Prateepwisarut, Deputy Director of the Forensic Science Institute, performed an investigation and collected specimens from the bodies of both the deceased. Specimens from vaginal and rectal fluid and saliva from the areola of the Second Deceased were submitted to department of forensic biology, under the supervision of Pol.Col. Watee Asawutmangkub. Pol.Col. Watee tasked the DNA analysis committee to perform examination, letter of appointment Jor 22, Pol.Gen. Kewalee Chakrabandhu, The National scientific crime detection officer examined evidence of both victims’ bloodstains from the hoe found at the crime scene. According to the result, bloodstains from both victims were found on the cotton bud used to wipe from the evidence hoe."

Not that, as always, facts would get on the way of your fantasies.

[AleG]

I disagree. I think is significant that Wei had an item belonging to the victim.

It also is significant the time that he stole /found the phone.

It shows he went back to the crime, by his own admission.

All of these anomalies by themselves mean nothing.

But when it is all together, it reaches the realm of coincidental impossibility. I wish people would stop cherry picking.

You may add to the list of corroborating facts that the three Burmese were seeing at the log by the beach at around 2AM, about the same time the two victims were last seen; again, from the court report:

"The plaintiff’s examination presented Mr Mau Mau as a circumstantial witness to the scene before the crime took place. Mr Mau Mau, who is a friend of the two defendants, testified and confirmed that on the said date of the incident, he and the two defendants were playing the guitar and drinking beer and smoking cigarettes in the vicinity of the dry log not far from the crime scene. After that, Mr Mau Mau drove off on his motorcycle. The time indicated by Mr Mau Mau’s testimony was shortly before the crime was committed. Miss Phornthip Singkhamma, witness for the plaintiff, testified that she saw three persons sitting and playing a guitar at approximately 2am, which supports and give persuasiveness to the testimony given by Mr. Mau Mau. The facts provided by the testimonies in this regard are in accordance with the timecodes that appear on the from the CCTV camera footage obtained nearby the crime scene. The examination of two defendants cannot confute this fact and that there was no one else nearby except the two defendants."

He left shortly before the crimes were committed, the log they were sitting at is between the place the two victims were last seen (around 2AM) and the crime scene, and what else was at that same place?

"In addition, the point where the two defendants and Mr Mau Mau were sitting was in the same place that Mr O (no surname), the plaintiff’s witness, regularly left the exhibited hoe, which is also in the vicinity of the place that the exhibited hoe was found with the two victims’s blood stains."

They were there, nobody else was seen there, the murder weapon at hand, the victims must had passed that spot around the time they were there, their alibi makes more sense if one inserts "and then we killed them" in the middle, Wei Phyo had the phone of one of the victims and lied to a friend over where he found it before the news of the murders came out, etc, etc...

It takes a lot of willful denial of the facts to not see what all the evidence points at.

Edited January 20, 2016 by AleG

[Khun Han]

The judgement summing-up has been shown to be creative and highly selective with the available evidence, both circumstatial and actual. Anyone using said judgement summing-up to support their argument is either desperate, disingenuous, living in cloud cuckoo land or all three. One might just as well use the prosecution case as proof of guilt. They both have a similar level of credibility .

Edited January 20, 2016 by Khun Han

[z42]

Sorry, Kun matt.

No, I don't believe David was killed by the hoe.

I Don't believe they acted alone.

I think Sean and Muang Muang were there.

OK and the motive again? Are you buying the "they raped / killed because of a sudden onset of homicidal horniness"?

The motive the cops didn't even present in court, something which in a murder case seems to be a pretty important factor, but not here for some strange reason.

And what about running man? Wei Phyo or no?

[iReason]

"A procession of police witnesses have confirmed that both the suspects did not have any legal representation when they were being questioned."

"Two impartial legal observers did sit in on their interviews but only after they had already confessed."

Source: http://news.sky.com/story/1539151/koh-tao-murder-suspect-had-injuries-on-body

[iReason]

"The officer who took DNA samples from one of the suspects when he was arrested, even though he had only been detained for not having the right documents to stay and work in Thailand,

admitted in court that he was not a forensics expert at all, but a bomb disposal officer, who had only ever taken DNA samples in training before."

Source: http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/trial_of_two_men_accused_of_murdering_hemsby_student_hannah_witheridge_in_thailand_resumes_1_4198226?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

[berybert]

Sorry, Kun matt.

No, I don't believe David was killed by the hoe.

I Don't believe they acted alone.

I think Sean and Muang Muang were there.

But you don't believe Mon was there despite the fact he said he was ?

[JLCrab]

The appeal request by the Defense to the Court's guilty verdict is due in a few days. Maybe the Defense has picked up a few pointers from you fellas on here.

[Chetzee]

i'm pretty sure by now ( 18 months ) that all the tangible evidence has been analysed ...... i 'm on one side ....... others want to see 2 young ppl executed .

DELETED

Edited January 21, 2016 by seedy
off topic

[greenchair]

Wei Phyo may have been tortured.

The confession is nothing.

People are saying there is no dna.

At the end of the day, by his own admission, he was in vicinity at the time of crime.

He left belongings at the vicinity.

He went back at 5am to the vicinity.

He had the victims phone.

I'm not buyin, he found it on the beach bs.

He is the only person that has a direct undisputable connection to the victim.

[somo]

Wei Phyo may have been tortured.

The confession is nothing.

People are saying there is no dna.

At the end of the day, by his own admission, he was in vicinity at the time of crime.

He left belongings at the vicinity.

He went back at 5am to the vicinity.

He had the victims phone.

I'm not buyin, he found it on the beach bs.

He is the only person that has a direct undisputable connection to the victim.

So in your opinion it all boils down to him having the phone nothing else.

You say he must have killed to get it and he says he found it. Not sure how you know this or is it just a theory?

Not much to support the conviction is it?

The only reason there are no other suspects is because the RTP refuse to look for them.

I agree these two should have been suspects but despite intensive scrutiny there is no evidence against them.

The only bit of DNA evidence ie on the murder weapon indicates they did not do it.

Do you really believe that if all the other lost DNA results really did implicate them that the RTP would have lost the lot?

No, it would have been locked up and under guard with international bodies invited to verify it all.

That's what I am not buying but amazingly you do.

[greenchair]

i'm pretty sure by now ( 18 months ) that all the tangible evidence has been analysed ...... i 'm on one side ....... others want to see 2 young ppl executed .

A.you said all the tangible evidence was in, then apparently not.

B. It's sounds like not new photographic evidence, but a new opinion on the analysis of those photos.

C. I had all the opinions on that, that I can stomach.

Simply because there is no physical evidence to back it up.

Except for Wei Phyo that had David's phone and left his belongings and butts at the scene.

Edited January 21, 2016 by seedy
Quote hidden post

[balo]

Clearly the murderers were done by a bunch of guys high on drugs and to involve only B2 or B3 is wrong imo .

But who were the other guys ? Despite daily speculations in social media we are not one step closer to solve it. 1000's of tourists at the island that night , mostly young people partying still no witnesses, nothing ?

Edited January 21, 2016 by balo

[PaPiPuPePo]

I believe it is possible to go something like this.

A group were playing the guitar, hannah was walking back alone. The group grabbed her raped her and possibly beat her unconscious. David stumbled onto it a fight broke out and david was beaten and stabbed someone picked up the hoe and smashed hannah. Everybody ran. The b2 stopped to swim and cleanse themselves. Went back to room.

The next morning Muang woke b2 and they went back to get belongings. But there were people about so Could not get shoe and guitar. The investigation changed after the friend confessed about phone. Nobody covered up. The rest is history

Are you psychic or do you just have a vivid imagination.

I ask this because there is not a shred of hard evidence to support your theory and that is all it is.

There is no DNA evidence - it was all lost

There are no witnesses to the crime yet you claim to know what happened- impossible!!

All we are left with is speculation which is not enough to convict let alone execute the defendants.

You repeatedly refuse to answer as to why you keep trying to mislead readers here that there is any DNA evidence implicating the B2. There is none so I ask once again why do you insist there is?

Not only that, the scenario presented is laughably implausible.

About as likely as that those two previously milk toast-looking Burmese guys hacked Hannah's face up and THEN raped her. Yes, they're both obviously a couple of Hannibal Lector wannabes.

The only thing that keeps me reading these threads is the occasional bit of useful info that comes up. I've put all of these guys on ignore because they're just clogging up the pipes, intentionally or not, but enough people respond to their speculation and twisted arguments that I still see some of this dreck when it's quoted.

[greenchair]

Clearly the murderers were done by a bunch of guys high on drugs and to involve only B2 or B3 is wrong imo .

But who were the other guys ? Despite daily speculations in social media we are not one step closer to solve it. 1000's of tourists at the island that night , mostly young people partying still no witnesses, nothing ?

Balo, I do believe there were more involved. Unfortunately, there just nothing on anyone else that would stand up in court. To this day, I think Sean was there. I watched the video of him in the truck. Sean is looking at the interviewer confidently in the eye as if with some effort. When the interviewer asks about the murder of Hannah. Sean gulps, his eyes close and flutter as if to hold back emotion.he then looks left, up, down and is not able to look at the interviewer again. He also begins hesitancy in his speach as if being careful not to trip himself.

But you can't take that to a court. I have often wondered if the condom and hair was his.

Mon may have been involved ,but there is nothing but rumour on him. They really don't have anything on the 1st defendant, I thought he was offered to be free but decided to stay with his friend.

But the 2nd defendant there was so much especially he had the victims phone.

[iReason]

"The Police testified that a UK police officer confirmed that the phone which was linked to the suspects belonged to David Miller, however there is no written record of this."

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/owner_of_mobile_phone_linking_burmese_migrant_workers_to_hannah_witheridge_murder_never_established_1_4213643

Edited January 21, 2016 by iReason

[iReason]

"The first policeman on the scene, Lt. Jakrapan Kaewkao, told the court that he received a call at 6.30am that morning about two tourists’ bodies found on the beach."

"He said he discovered a gruesome scene on arrival, with Miller “face down” in the shallow surf."

"Again this is clearly not the case as in the first crime scene photos, David is lying in the sea face up."

"This is the same officer who said he found the clothes in a neat pile."

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/families-hear-gruesome-details-as-trial-for-thailand-murders-of-two-british-tourists-begins/story-fnh81fz8-1227434677803

Edited January 21, 2016 by seedy
font

[somo]

"The Police testified that a UK police officer confirmed that the phone which was linked to the suspects belonged to David Miller, however there is no written record of this."

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/owner_of_mobile_phone_linking_burmese_migrant_workers_to_hannah_witheridge_murder_never_established_1_4213643

So it now appears that we only have the word of the RTP that the phone belonged to Miller.

Bang goes the only bit of evidence that some thought was decisive. The fact is there is now no evidence at all only the police say so and finger pointing.

[JLCrab]

I don't know what I believe so how do you know what I believe? Another month for the Defense to put in their appeal request so maybe they'll give you a call to straighten them as to is who and what is what.

[Chetzee]

I don't know what I believe so how do you know what I believe? Another month for the Defense to put in their appeal request so maybe they'll give you a call to straighten them as to is who and what is what.

i stand corrected ..... and there was me thinking you knew where you were coming from

[seedy]

off topic post removed and edited