Phuket property glut?

[thaistocks]

Phuket has some of the best international schools anywhere in Thailand, and many more choices than even a few short years ago. It has great internet connection at most locations as well as Mobile Phone reach and 100% 3G-4G footprint. All this was severely lacking just a few short years ago, today taken for granted. The road to Phang Na is excellent which gives nature/beach/boat lovers a whole host of new alternative choices. Inflation in the hospitality industry the world over has been far above the rest of consumer inflation, so Phuket can't be singled out...except to those old/new timers which are still on the cheap, backpacking or on a shoe string. Yes, Phuket is no longer the cheap destination those would like it to be. The nostalgic times of the past are gone and yes PiPi island is a tourist trap to say the least, but some of the new, better, more developed ways along with the (new) international airport besides excellent health care and key infrastructure getting done deserves some objective praise. Besides, compare it to other places around the world -and re-appraise.

[schlog]

MaiKhao Sansiri condos are going for 15Mil and up to 58M.

Bought three already. Russian ruble hit the market kind of hard but there are plenty of chinese and Taiwanese as well as Westerners.

USD is strong now

What are you expecting with 3 condos? In my years here i bought land, houses and condos.

I also bought in Maikhaw 18 years ago landplots for 60k/Rai. So i'm relaxed if we have a property glut or not.

Would i buy today land, house or condos....sure not. I'm happy only landplots and 2 houses are left. Cash is king.

Better times will come for buyers. Till now there is no blood on the streets.

[Fallangpakwan]

This is Thailand all over;you can drive from Mae Sot to Mukdahan, Chiangrai to Trang and see at least 50% of all kinds of buildings having never been occupied; and more being built alongside.One perfect example is the probably hundred or so "shophouses" built around 1990 surrounding what is now the "Harbour Mall" along Laemchabang way that have never been used; they were falling down now see some have been renovated and back on the market.Have to wonder where the money comes from.

[LivinginKata]

Phuket has some of the best international schools anywhere in Thailand, and many more choices than even a few short years ago. It has great internet connection at most locations as well as Mobile Phone reach and 100% 3G-4G footprint. All this was severely lacking just a few short years ago, today taken for granted. The road to Phang Na is excellent which gives nature/beach/boat lovers a whole host of new alternative choices. Inflation in the hospitality industry the world over has been far above the rest of consumer inflation, so Phuket can't be singled out...except to those old/new timers which are still on the cheap, backpacking or on a shoe string. Yes, Phuket is no longer the cheap destination those would like it to be. The nostalgic times of the past are gone and yes PiPi island is a tourist trap to say the least, but some of the new, better, more developed ways along with the (new) international airport besides excellent health care and key infrastructure getting done deserves some objective praise. Besides, compare it to other places around the world -and re-appraise.

Sounds like a TAT pitch ... I just have to laugh, some truth ... much hype ..

[LivinginKata]

MaiKhao Sansiri condos are going for 15Mil and up to 58M.

Bought three already. Russian ruble hit the market kind of hard but there are plenty of chinese and Taiwanese as well as Westerners.

USD is strong now

What are you expecting with 3 condos? In my years here i bought land, houses and condos.

I also bought in Maikhaw 18 years ago landplots for 60k/Rai. So i'm relaxed if we have a property glut or not.

Would i buy today land, house or condos....sure not. I'm happy only landplots and 2 houses are left. Cash is king.

Better times will come for buyers. Till now there is no blood on the streets.

Completely agree. I too am relaxed as we bought more than 10 years ago and have done well ... would I buy today ... no way ...

[mihalis]

In my opinion, the main reasons for the Phuket property glut are:

1) Oversupply - they have built too many condo's / apartments / houses which will eventually effect the property market by lowering prices, or, properties sitting derelict and fall into disrepair..

2) Yes, people are "bailing out" of Phuket. There is a higher cost of living here, failing critical infrastructure, lack of good Governance, destruction of the environment, terrible traffic, rising crime, drug abuse, no public transport, more violence particularly gun crime, bureaucracy surrounding visas, corrupt officials and police, greedy Thai landlords etc - all now having an effect on the numbers, and baht, on Phuket.

3) The Chinese are the majority of tourists to Phuket now. They will not buy property / bars / cafes / restaurants and take a Thai bar girl for their wife, as did westerners, just a few years ago, so, there are less potential buyers of everything on Phuket to advertise and market to. The Chinese will not buy a property to holiday in or retire to, on Phuket.

4) The collapse of the Russian Ruble due to Russia's invasion of Ukraine and subsequent sanctions. This decimated the Russian market.

5) Aging expat population. The old timers are passing on and not being replaced by the next generation of retiring western expats on Phuket.

I agree on most points, tho, the visa situation is the most destructive thing to happen... tourism demographics change all over the world, Euros, Russians, Chinese, Aussie and so on, come and go... Visa limitations, restrictions have cause a lot of people to leave..

[stevenl]

re thaistocks comments :-

I'd take anything he says with a BIG grain of salt as it sounds as though he's going to do & say everything he can to convince all that investing here is a smart move ( I don't think so !! )

Just look at his posting name "thaistocks" ---that tells us all we need to know about him

At the same token I can say your posting name says all there is to know about you.

Any facts why he is wrong would be welcome of course

[thaistocks]

Yes, true currently the island is packed and full of tourists, so I can imagine parking is not easy there, just now. But then again how does this resolute with the statements that Phuket has peaked, tourists are coming far less and nobody loves this place anymore bla, bla.

Travel agents the world over regularly recommend tourists avoid Patong and book hotels elsewhere. "Phuket is fine, but don't go to Patong!" they tell their customers. Yet, when these tourists come here and despite all, they all want to go to Patong, evenwhile the place is "soo terrible".

Patong year after year is jam packed with all kinds of tourists, which when they go back home don't dare to say they spend much time there. It terrible but they all go there. Some of the most creative innovative places in the US, are also (as has been amply shown), some of the most avant guard places. Diversity breeds creativity.

[LivinginKata]

I agree on most points, tho, the visa situation is the most destructive thing to happen... tourism demographics change all over the world, Euros, Russians, Chinese, Aussie and so on, come and go... Visa limitations, restrictions have cause a lot of people to leave..

I agree that the recent late 2014 visa restrictions caused us much loss of many long stay off shore working expats - on the 5th return to Thailand on stamp-on-entry they were refused entry to Thailand. So they all bailed out of Thailand for ever.

[LivinginKata]

Yes, true currently the island is packed and full of tourists, so I can imagine parking is not easy there, just now. But then again how does this resolute with the statements that Phuket has peaked, tourists are coming far less and nobody loves this place anymore bla, bla.

Travel agents the world over regularly recommend tourists avoid Patong and book hotels elsewhere. "Phuket is fine, but don't go to Patong!" they tell their customers. Yet, when these tourists come here and despite all, they all want to go to Patong, evenwhile the place is "soo terrible".

Patong year after year is jam packed with all kinds of tourists, which when they go back home don't dare to say they spend much time there. It terrible but they all go there. Some of the most creative innovative places in the US, are also (as has been amply shown), some of the most avant guard places. Diversity breeds creativity.

I think you lost the point of the topic - PROPERTY GLUT

As in selling property. There is far too much developement and prices have been falling for the past 5 years .... if the owner can even sell at a fire sale price.

[Renter]

thaistocks -- must be invested here

again he's trying to tell the world how wonderful it is here & long term residents know this is far from the truth

i need another BIG grain of salt after reading his latest "promoting Phuket" post

[Renter]

yes stevenl - i rent by intelligent choice

i own 2 properties in a jurisdiction that has rule of law ~ and it's enforced

i also know of 2 people who have been badly burnt property investing here

u are apparently in thaistocks camp having put money on the line here........getting a bit nervous maybe ?

[Mr Wonderful]

I have invested in the order of 200M baht and I am not nervous. I buy at the best price possible, either presale to secure the best units or leftover units in the buildings I am in after they are completed. Some buildings take a few years to mature. Only occasionally do I touch a house with land and then on my wife's name and never more than I would have to lose sleep over losing it (to her, a land scam or any other way). Foreign quota freehold condos in luxury buildings are solid here. You kind of get what you pay for but even a 4M baht condo built by a reputable developer can avoid your rental bill and give you some capital appreciation, if you are lucky. For cashflow returns, luxury condos are hard to beat here.

[Renter]

i still prefer a jurisdiction with the rule of law ~ enforced

& certainly NOT buying in my wife's name

[Mr Wonderful]

Some wives are better than others. And only one house at a time...

The rule of law governing condominiums in Thailand is very strong. I can assure you that it's no worse than Ontario or Michigan or some place in Europe.

[LivinginKata]

I have invested in the order of 200M baht and I am not nervous. I buy at the best price possible, either presale to secure the best units or leftover units in the buildings I am in after they are completed. Some buildings take a few years to mature. Only occasionally do I touch a house with land and then on my wife's name and never more than I would have to lose sleep over losing it (to her, a land scam or any other way). Foreign quota freehold condos in luxury buildings are solid here. You kind of get what you pay for but even a 4M baht condo built by a reputable developer can avoid your rental bill and give you some capital appreciation, if you are lucky. For cashflow returns, luxury condos are hard to beat here.

Very good for you. I like your 'and give you some capital appreciation, if you are lucky' ... mmm ... lucky is not a good investement strategy.

I'll be honest ... I have moved all profit money out of Thailand for the past 6 years and have made more income on that money for zero hassle and tax paid.

I suppose there are some fire sale prices ... but think on .... the price you pay is current market value ...

[NamKangMan]

Phuket has some of the best international schools anywhere in Thailand, and many more choices than even a few short years ago. It has great internet connection at most locations as well as Mobile Phone reach and 100% 3G-4G footprint. All this was severely lacking just a few short years ago, today taken for granted. The road to Phang Na is excellent which gives nature/beach/boat lovers a whole host of new alternative choices. Inflation in the hospitality industry the world over has been far above the rest of consumer inflation, so Phuket can't be singled out...except to those old/new timers which are still on the cheap, backpacking or on a shoe string. Yes, Phuket is no longer the cheap destination those would like it to be. The nostalgic times of the past are gone and yes PiPi island is a tourist trap to say the least, but some of the new, better, more developed ways along with the (new) international airport besides excellent health care and key infrastructure getting done deserves some objective praise. Besides, compare it to other places around the world -and re-appraise.

What has your post/s have to do with the "property glut" on Phuket????????

[LivinginKata]

Phuket has some of the best international schools anywhere in Thailand, and many more choices than even a few short years ago. It has great internet connection at most locations as well as Mobile Phone reach and 100% 3G-4G footprint. All this was severely lacking just a few short years ago, today taken for granted. The road to Phang Na is excellent which gives nature/beach/boat lovers a whole host of new alternative choices. Inflation in the hospitality industry the world over has been far above the rest of consumer inflation, so Phuket can't be singled out...except to those old/new timers which are still on the cheap, backpacking or on a shoe string. Yes, Phuket is no longer the cheap destination those would like it to be. The nostalgic times of the past are gone and yes PiPi island is a tourist trap to say the least, but some of the new, better, more developed ways along with the (new) international airport besides excellent health care and key infrastructure getting done deserves some objective praise. Besides, compare it to other places around the world -and re-appraise.

What has your post/s have to do with the "property glut" on Phuket????????

Agreed ... this TV member is just pushing the wonders of property 'investemnt' here in Phuket. Might be good for some, but let's have the truth ... and NKM is good at that ...

[NamKangMan]

re thaistocks comments :-

I'd take anything he says with a BIG grain of salt as it sounds as though he's going to do & say everything he can to convince all that investing here is a smart move ( I don't think so !! )

Just look at his posting name "thaistocks" ---that tells us all we need to know about him

At the same token I can say your posting name says all there is to know about you.

Any facts why he is wrong would be welcome of course

Just to clarify, do you believe there is a property glut here? If so, can you state your reasons for why you think there is a property glut?

If not, can you state your reasons why for you think there in no property glut here?

[stevenl]

yes stevenl - i rent by intelligent choice

i own 2 properties in a jurisdiction that has rule of law ~ and it's enforced

i also know of 2 people who have been badly burnt property investing here

u are apparently in thaistocks camp having put money on the line here........getting a bit nervous maybe ?

I rent myself and like that, just don't like personal attacks, especially when any form of argumentation is missing.

[Renter]

I too am fully invested both in property & stocks & i don't have a $ invested in Thailand although I live here as is my choice because ~ i like it.......as soon as I don't like it anymore I'm on the next plane out still with all my loot............unlike the ones here who are locked in & are trying to convince everyone they have made a smart investing decision......it's borderline hilarious

[Stevemercer]

From reading these posts one thinks that ferangs living around Phuket must be millionaires (of the US dollar sort). Are there any 'living on a modest fixed income' types retirees?

[LivinginKata]

From reading these posts one thinks that ferangs living around Phuket must be millionaires (of the US dollar sort). Are there any 'living on a modest fixed income' types retirees?

The majority of Farangs are on some sort of fixed income and rent a home. Those of us that marry a Thai end up buying (sigh sigh ... another very long story).

A Baht millionare is only 20,000 GBP or USD 30,000 .... really not that much in accumulated weath .. sure a million US is serious money ... and not so common ...

Edited January 5, 2016 by LivinginKata

[NamKangMan]

I have invested in the order of 200M baht and I am not nervous. I buy at the best price possible, either presale to secure the best units or leftover units in the buildings I am in after they are completed. Some buildings take a few years to mature. Only occasionally do I touch a house with land and then on my wife's name and never more than I would have to lose sleep over losing it (to her, a land scam or any other way). Foreign quota freehold condos in luxury buildings are solid here. You kind of get what you pay for but even a 4M baht condo built by a reputable developer can avoid your rental bill and give you some capital appreciation, if you are lucky. For cashflow returns, luxury condos are hard to beat here.

"and never more than I would have to lose sleep over losing it (to her, a land scam or any other way)" - Thailand has many "or any other ways."

Probably another reason for lack of buyers here is political instability and rule of law.

All your properties could be gone tomorrow, with a stroke of a pen in Bangkok.

Or, they simply change the visa rules so most "owners" can't live in the own properties here.

Like LIK said, he had a lot of offshore rig pigs staying long term. A simple visa crackdown and they are gone. What about the rig pigs in similar circumstances who bought a property here - they can no longer live in their own property. Money wasted on property in Thailand.

That's how easy and fast things can change here.

[Stevemercer]

Thanks 'LivinginKata'. I understand and agree with what you say. I was being a bit tongue in cheek.

[johninbkk]

In my opinion, the main reasons for the Phuket property glut are:

1) Oversupply - they have built too many condo's / apartments / houses which will eventually effect the property market by lowering prices, or, properties sitting derelict and fall into disrepair..

2) Yes, people are "bailing out" of Phuket. There is a higher cost of living here, failing critical infrastructure, lack of good Governance, destruction of the environment, terrible traffic, rising crime, drug abuse, no public transport, more violence particularly gun crime, bureaucracy surrounding visas, corrupt officials and police, greedy Thai landlords etc - all now having an effect on the numbers, and baht, on Phuket.

3) The Chinese are the majority of tourists to Phuket now. They will not buy property / bars / cafes / restaurants and take a Thai bar girl for their wife, as did westerners, just a few years ago, so, there are less potential buyers of everything on Phuket to advertise and market to. The Chinese will not buy a property to holiday in or retire to, on Phuket.

4) The collapse of the Russian Ruble due to Russia's invasion of Ukraine and subsequent sanctions. This decimated the Russian market.

5) Aging expat population. The old timers are passing on and not being replaced by the next generation of retiring western expats on Phuket.

This is not just a Phuket problem, it's the whole country....... all accounts stated above.

[NamKangMan]

I too am fully invested both in property & stocks & i don't have a $ invested in Thailand although I live here as is my choice because ~ i like it.......as soon as I don't like it anymore I'm on the next plane out still with all my loot............unlike the ones here who are locked in & are trying to convince everyone they have made a smart investing decision......it's borderline hilarious

I am in similar circumstances to yourself and, I would suggest, I am sleeping a lot better than many on the island at the moment.

Edited January 5, 2016 by NamKangMan

[Mr Wonderful]

I have invested in the order of 200M baht and I am not nervous. I buy at the best price possible, either presale to secure the best units or leftover units in the buildings I am in after they are completed. Some buildings take a few years to mature. Only occasionally do I touch a house with land and then on my wife's name and never more than I would have to lose sleep over losing it (to her, a land scam or any other way). Foreign quota freehold condos in luxury buildings are solid here. You kind of get what you pay for but even a 4M baht condo built by a reputable developer can avoid your rental bill and give you some capital appreciation, if you are lucky. For cashflow returns, luxury condos are hard to beat here.

"and never more than I would have to lose sleep over losing it (to her, a land scam or any other way)" - Thailand has many "or any other ways."

Probably another reason for lack of buyers here is political instability and rule of law.

All your properties could be gone tomorrow, with a stroke of a pen in Bangkok.

Or, they simply change the visa rules so most "owners" can't live in the own properties here.

Like LIK said, he had a lot of offshore rig pigs staying long term. A simple visa crackdown and they are gone. What about the rig pigs in similar circumstances who bought a property here - they can no longer live in their own property. Money wasted on property in Thailand.

That's how easy and fast things can change here.

[LivinginKata]

<snip>

Like LIK said, he had a lot of offshore rig pigs staying long term. A simple visa crackdown and they are gone. What about the rig pigs in similar circumstances who bought a property here - they can no longer live in their own property. Money wasted on property in Thailand.

That's how easy and fast things can change here.

Not so fast NKM ... if have some sort of lease title to ann apartment then the 'owner' can apply for a non-immigrant 'O' visa. At least that's the way I did it 20 years ago before over 50 (actually it was 60 back then) or married to a Thai national.

I more worry about civil conflict here in Thailand, like we had about 8 years ago with the reds and yellows. That was when I stopped investing in Thailand and started taking profits out. I was ready back then to bail out of Thailand. It eventually worked out Ok. But even now we are under miltary rule ... benign for now ...

[Mr Wonderful]

I have invested in the order of 200M baht and I am not nervous. I buy at the best price possible, either presale to secure the best units or leftover units in the buildings I am in after they are completed. Some buildings take a few years to mature. Only occasionally do I touch a house with land and then on my wife's name and never more than I would have to lose sleep over losing it (to her, a land scam or any other way). Foreign quota freehold condos in luxury buildings are solid here. You kind of get what you pay for but even a 4M baht condo built by a reputable developer can avoid your rental bill and give you some capital appreciation, if you are lucky. For cashflow returns, luxury condos are hard to beat here.

"and never more than I would have to lose sleep over losing it (to her, a land scam or any other way)" - Thailand has many "or any other ways."

Probably another reason for lack of buyers here is political instability and rule of law.

All your properties could be gone tomorrow, with a stroke of a pen in Bangkok.

Or, they simply change the visa rules so most "owners" can't live in the own properties here.

Like LIK said, he had a lot of offshore rig pigs staying long term. A simple visa crackdown and they are gone. What about the rig pigs in similar circumstances who bought a property here - they can no longer live in their own property. Money wasted on property in Thailand.

That's how easy and fast things can change here.

That's scare mongering. The US cracking down on offshore accounts would be far more likely than Thailand kicking all workers out of the country. Unless this place turns into Noerh Korea. But hen again, Germany could be invaded by IS and USA could be ruled by a xenophobic megalomaniac. In basic terms Thailabd has had pretty stable politics (for outsiders) and the visa crackdowns is on foreigners who don't want to get a work permit, don't want to invest and don't want to retire or marry. Those who have funds or income are welcome in Thailand.