Obama defends forthcoming gun restrictions as constitutional

[mopar71]

It is in fact quite the opposite. SCOTUS for instance has twice upheld the constitutionality of the Affordable Care Act. (

It was basically ruled unconstitutional as it was sold to the American people, but they said it was constitutional as a tax (which Obama & the Dems kept claiming it wasn't)...

“The Affordable Care Act’s requirement that certain individuals pay a financial penalty for not obtaining health insurance may reasonably be characterized as a tax,” Chief Justice Roberts wrote in the majority opinion. “Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness.”

At the same time, the court rejected the argument that the administration had pressed most vigorously in support of the law, that its individual mandate was justified by Congress’s power to regulate interstate commerce. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/us/supreme-court-lets-health-law-largely-stand.html

[arjunadawn]

It was basically ruled unconstitutional as it was sold to the American people, but they said it was constitutional as a tax (which Obama & the Dems kept claiming it wasn't)...

“The Affordable Care Act’s requirement that certain individuals pay a financial penalty for not obtaining health insurance may reasonably be characterized as a tax,” Chief Justice Roberts wrote in the majority opinion. “Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness.”

At the same time, the court rejected the argument that the administration had pressed most vigorously in support of the law, that its individual mandate was justified by Congress’s power to regulate interstate commerce. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/us/supreme-court-lets-health-law-largely-stand.html

All tax bills must originate in the house; this bill did not. It makes little difference in my opinion that SCOTUS ruled it a tax and let it slide on the merits of the then complaint. In this instance they proved that the bill was in fact unconstitutional. However, that was not the issue then before the court. I often wondered if this decision actually set in motion the foundation upon which a more narrowly tailored complaint could be based- origination. This bill, cobbled together in the dark of night, inserted in a striped out house bill sold as one thing and passed in a sprint as another thing, demonstrates the contempt and disdain that the Regressive Left has for the American people. Irrespective of will, they inflict their good upon the whole. Anything that must be passed to know "what is in it" is a stalking horse for other ends. As Pelosi rightly said, it is not just about "healthcare."

[Scott]

Please stay on the topic of the thread.

Continued off-topic posting will result in your post being removed and a possible suspension.

[crowbait]

I just wish that some intelligent American would explain why they should have a handgun.

I must be very simple but isn't it a truism that if you have no guns, people can't get shot?

[mopar71]

I watched Obama's speech tonight and it wasn't all that bad, before he went political. A lot of the actions seem reasonable. I was surprised to hear him reference Chicago's almost daily shootings - even if it was very brief. Too bad his executive's actions didn't include any way to get guns out of the hands of criminals who already have them. In the end, I still don't trust the man and never will though.

[mopar71]

I just wish that some intelligent American would explain why they should have a handgun.

I must be very simple but isn't it a truism that if you have no guns, people can't get shot?

You can ask just about anybody why they need 90% of what they have. I'm sure they don't really need it. But I don't go around telling everyone what they should and shouldn't have. As for handguns specifically, for fun and protection are valid enough reasons. Remember, a tiny, tiny fraction of legal gun owners use their guns to commit crimes.

As for truisms, it is also a truism that criminals don't obey laws...so outlawing guns will only disarm law abiding citizens. If I had the power to make them all disappear from the planet, someone would just start making them again, maybe even on a 3D printer. Then again, if I had that kind of power I'd choose to make cancer disappear. Then Kanye West.

[beechguy]

In an effort to be fair, I watched the press conference. It simply reinforced the fact, that he is incompetent and a liar. He tried to push the Ft. Hood and San Bernardino shootings as simple gun violence. Heaven forbid, he should grow a pair and call it what it was. He also failed to mention, that many of the internet sales, etc. have be completed at a licensed gun dealer, that includes a background check, again misinforming the public.

He also seems to be basing his actions, on flawed and inaccurate information. Information he and his administration has been informed of. I think it will simply give the same results, as Colorado, the only difference, Colorado still has the money, the U.S. would piss it away, and would have filled the 14 vacant positions.

http://www.9news.com/story/news/local/politics/2014/07/25/gun-control-colorado/13158581/

Bottom line, he is just trying to distract the public from his failed policies, both domestic, and foreign. Perhaps he should shed a few tears for the 47,000 annual drug overdose deaths.

Edited January 6, 2016 by beechguy

[beechguy]

I just wish that some intelligent American would explain why they should have a handgun.

I must be very simple but isn't it a truism that if you have no guns, people can't get shot?

The truism would be, you may not get shot by a law abiding citizen, but by a criminal.

[crowbait]

Three quick points:

1) Fun (in the handgun context) is not a valid reason.

2) 33,000 gun deaths in a year is not a tiny, tiny fraction.

3) If there are no legal guns, it makes it much more difficult for criminals to acquire them.

Thank you for being polite though.

[beechguy]

Three quick points:

1) Fun (in the handgun context) is not a valid reason.

2) 33,000 gun deaths in a year is not a tiny, tiny fraction.

3) If there are no legal guns, it makes it much more difficult for criminals to acquire them.

Thank you for being polite though.

1) Your opinion, not a fact.

2) You don't mention, that many of those were suicides, and could be easily accomplished by another method.

3) Drug dealer in Chicago says the going rate for a handgun, already used in a murder, is $75-$100. I don't think they care about the legal status.

You're welcome.

[chuckd]

Three quick points:

1) Fun (in the handgun context) is not a valid reason.

2) 33,000 gun deaths in a year is not a tiny, tiny fraction.

3) If there are no legal guns, it makes it much more difficult for criminals to acquire them.

Thank you for being polite though.

"2) 33,000 gun deaths in a year is not a tiny, tiny fraction."

Firearm suicides

• Number of deaths: 21,175
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 6.7

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm

Edited January 6, 2016 by chuckd

[Publicus]

I just wish that some intelligent American would explain why they should have a handgun.

I must be very simple but isn't it a truism that if you have no guns, people can't get shot?

The truism would be, you may not get shot by a law abiding citizen, but by a criminal.

Second Amendment does not prohibit or control public opinion. Nor does the Second Amendment prohibit laws to govern and to regulate legal ownership of guns. Second Amendment is a right of ownership. It does not exempt gun owners (such as myself in the USA) from the laws.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/18/11-essential-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

In mass shootings in the US from 1982 to 2012, 48% of the shooters used legally owned firearms.

States that have strict gun limitations laws have fewer deaths from gun-related violence.

The South is the most violent region of the country. The Northeast US has the fewest percentage of households in which there are legally owned firearms.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/18/11-essential-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

From December 2012 to December 2013, at least 100 children were killed in unintentional shootings.

• About two-thirds of these unintended deaths — 65 percent — took place in a home or vehicle that belonged to the victim’s family, most often with guns that were legally owned but not secured. Another 19 percent took place in the home of a relative or friend of the victim.

http://everytownresearch.org/reports/innocents_lost/

Gun ownership is a right enshrined in the Constitution. It does now however exempt gun owners from the rule of law. Nor does it exempt gun owners from being responsible in their own home.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Don't forget to hand him a box of tissues...he's an emo-guy ?

[OMGImInPattaya]

Thanks Barry but I'll take my advice on guns from this fella if you don't mind... https://youtu.be/08BSFkgioMQ

[Pinot]

Obama is simply trying to build a legacy that he can point to in his later life and tell everybody what he accomplished.

What the Democrats, and the liberals on this forum, don't realize is that most Americans just simply don't think gun control is an issue.

But the squeeky wheel gets the grease.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Gallup: Only 2% Say 'Guns/Gun Control' Among Nation's Most Important Problems

By Susan Jones

January 4, 2016 | 5:53 AM EST

(CNSNews.com) - As President Obama prepares to announce new executive actions on gun control Monday, a newly released Gallup Poll shows that "guns/gun control" ranked near the bottom of Americans' most pressing concerns in 2015.

In fact, guns/gun control ranked 19th out of 23 top problems facing the country last year.

According to Gallup, only one percent of respondents mentioned guns/gun control as a concern for most of the months in 2015, although mentions spiked to 7 percent in October and December following mass shootings in those months that dominated the news. (The overall average for the year was 2 percent.)

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/gallup-only-2-americans-name-gunsgun-control-among-nations-most-important

CNS News is pure wingnut media. Referencing this nonsense is unbelievable. Of course American's are concerned about gun violence and overwhelming in favor of strict gun laws.

Please try to do better than this. Pointing to this crap to justify doing nothing...is just sad.

If these laws save the life of one child, everyone should be all in.

The wingnuts are the Republican base

[Berkshire]

Second Amendment does not prohibit or control public opinion. Nor does the Second Amendment prohibit laws to govern and to regulate legal ownership of guns. Second Amendment is a right of ownership. It does not exempt gun owners (such as myself in the USA) from the laws.

Yes, the will of the people. In fact, I just watched a CNN piece this morning that cited a poll which says 89% of Americans favor expanded background checks. The President is simply following the will of the people because he knows the cowards in Congress are too deathly afraid of the NRA.

To your poll, isn't it amazing that 16% of people actually oppose restrictions for people with mental illness? Who the heck are these loonies? Ah nevermind, the far right fringe who wants everybody to have a gun, even the certifiably crazy.

[beechguy]

Obama is simply trying to build a legacy that he can point to in his later life and tell everybody what he accomplished.

What the Democrats, and the liberals on this forum, don't realize is that most Americans just simply don't think gun control is an issue.

But the squeeky wheel gets the grease.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Gallup: Only 2% Say 'Guns/Gun Control' Among Nation's Most Important Problems

By Susan Jones

January 4, 2016 | 5:53 AM EST

(CNSNews.com) - As President Obama prepares to announce new executive actions on gun control Monday, a newly released Gallup Poll shows that "guns/gun control" ranked near the bottom of Americans' most pressing concerns in 2015.

In fact, guns/gun control ranked 19th out of 23 top problems facing the country last year.

According to Gallup, only one percent of respondents mentioned guns/gun control as a concern for most of the months in 2015, although mentions spiked to 7 percent in October and December following mass shootings in those months that dominated the news. (The overall average for the year was 2 percent.)

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/gallup-only-2-americans-name-gunsgun-control-among-nations-most-important

CNS News is pure wingnut media. Referencing this nonsense is unbelievable. Of course American's are concerned about gun violence and overwhelming in favor of strict gun laws.

Please try to do better than this. Pointing to this crap to justify doing nothing...is just sad.

If these laws save the life of one child, everyone should be all in.

The wingnuts are the Republican base

They were simply reporting on a Gallup Poll. Would you call it bullshit crap if CNN reported on the same poll?

Perhaps you are the one that should do better.

[Publicus]

Three quick points:

1) Fun (in the handgun context) is not a valid reason.

2) 33,000 gun deaths in a year is not a tiny, tiny fraction.

3) If there are no legal guns, it makes it much more difficult for criminals to acquire them.

Thank you for being polite though.

"2) 33,000 gun deaths in a year is not a tiny, tiny fraction."

Firearm suicides

• Number of deaths: 21,175
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 6.7

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm

The data presented in the post is from all suicides. It is not from all gun deaths.

The data originate from the identical source quoted in the post. Here is the more complete picture.

All suicides

• Number of deaths: 41,149
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 13.0
• Cause of death rank: 10

Firearm suicides

• Number of deaths: 21,175
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 6.7

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm

The annual per capita death rate by guns per 100,000 population is 10.3 percent. This is a significant statistic and it is serious, horrible, largely unchecked. This is the true documentation:

Per Capita Annual Gun Death Rate (per 100,000 population):

National: (10.32)

Highest: Louisiana (19.04, 45.6% households contain guns)

#25: Pennsylvania (10.90)

Lowest: CT, NY, New Jersey (4.99), RI, MA, Hawaii (2.20)

Source: Centers for Disease Control

http://heedinggodscall.org/content/pfctoolkit-10

Percent of Recovered Crime Guns First Legally Purchased In-State:

Pennsylvania: 78%

New Jersey: 27%

New York: 28%

Source: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF)

Distance From Legal Point of Purchase to Crime Recovery: (Records legal purchase of guns in states with lax laws transported into states with strict laws.)

Within 10 miles More than 100 miles

Newark 9.1% 81.5%

New York City 4.4% 83%

Sources: ATF (2000); Brady Center; National Institute of Justice (1993, 2007); Police Foundation (1997)

Poll Data

77% of NRA members favor a waiting period for purchase of a handgun

82% of American support limiting the sales of military-style assault weapons

94% of police chiefs favor requiring a background check for all handgun sales.

Support for background checks on private gun sales, including gun shows:

87% of American

83% of gun owners

69% of NRA gun-owners

Support for limiting handgun sales to one per person per month:

65% of Americans

59% of gun owners

Support for registration of handguns

79% of Americans

69% of police chiefs

61% of gun owners

59% of NRA members

Sources: CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll (2008); Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research (2008); Mayors Against Illegal Guns (2009); National Opinion research Center (2003); American Journal of Preventative Medicine (2006); Violence & Victims (1993)

[Publicus]

Just released to news now, Obama's new restrictions will target social security beneficiaries (this is the same slippery slope Veterans' attack that expands administrative fiduciary incompetence into mental defect). This fiat is in fact the predictable outcome of previous infrastructure setups/programs to blacklist numerous Americans. It began with Veterans X years ago, a window was ported in the Orwellian Affordable Care Act less years ago, and now it is finally broadening with targeting the largest sitting population target on the landscape, the millions on Social Security. Lets be clear, BATF and FBI have already created the parameters of reportable information and those beneficiaries signed up for direct deposit are also included in this vast, despotic net.

"Doctors as magistrate gatekeepers..." Jeez, this is the despotism that all those "wingnuts" predicted; how ironic that the despised right was in fact correct and not only predicted this but predicted when. How does such a thing happen? How are so many so right? This is exactly the behavior that all these "conspiracy loons" predicted. Indeed. some of America's smartest people (and on the Left) have emphatically stated Obama is "becoming the very danger the Constitution was designed to avoid... the concentration of power in any branch." This is among the biggest developments in recent US history. This single issue will serve to define the coming year, and will be the illustrative highlight of Obama's incessant abuse of the separation of powers. History will remember this man poorly; the present already regards him as an aberration. There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth before/if Obama leaves office but the truly horrific part will be stitching America back together, trying to craft some semblance of a State post-Obama, and trying to discern the endless poison pills he seeded throughout the US government by this anti-Western nihilist, domestically and internationally.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/01/04/obamas-gun-control-plan-includes-gun-ban-social-security-beneficiaries/

EDIT:

"Obama wipes away tears..." http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/obama-gun-restrictions-217354

"I feel..." and "...for the children" are tried and tested amulets of the radical left. Under the guise of 'feeling' and 'for the children' all manner of horror has been inflicted upon the liberties of those in the West. Whenever there is discourse regarding the rule of law, Rights, or Liberties "I feel" and "for the children" should alert you every time that your opponent is a fraud. Whenever there is an appeal to emotion you can rest assured your liberties are about to be compromised.

President Obama has a background that includes being a professor of constitutional law. The lawyer cited in the video clip is a professor of law. The two lawyers disagree. Disagreement among lawyers is not new, unique, shocking, unprecedented, bad.

Moreover, President Obama is approaching the matter of gun limitations from the standpoint of seven years as POTUS who has been conscientious in attending, grieving with and comforting Americans in their communities stricken by a spectacular and routine gun violence. Many of not most of the mass murders were committed by persons in their community using legally purchased firearms.

Prof. Turley in the video clip seems not too concerned about it. The professor seems even less concerned about communities in America vis-a-vis use of legally purchased firearms in mass murders and the severe effects the mass murders have of the lives of those in the impacted community. Prof Turkey seems rather inattentive to the impact of repeated spectacular mass murders on the psyche and sensibilities of the national community.

Prof. Turley seems more interested in guns. Guns first, life and community seem to rate somewhere further down the professor's line of priorities.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Publicus

[Publicus]

I just wish that some intelligent American would explain why they should have a handgun.

I must be very simple but isn't it a truism that if you have no guns, people can't get shot?

The truism would be, you may not get shot by a law abiding citizen, but by a criminal.

Police need to set the example of wise and prudent use of firearms, however, too many do not.

There is also the anarchy of legal gun owners currently conducting a conscious and willful occupation of federal government public environmental preservation lands in Oregon.

The legal gun owners in cowboy hats are presently moving in heavy fortifications to defend their illegal armed occupation. They do of course have their guns and ammunition.

US Government law enforcement officials rather than the general public are the ones on duty and in the line of fire of this group of legal gun owning crackpots. Some of these crackpots are related to other legal gun owning crackpots.

Legal gun owning Second Amendment lunatic crackpots.

[mopar71]

Funny, that the same people falling back on the "broad pubic support" angle didn't think it valid when marriage was the issue. But when it comes to the 2nd Amendment...

Edited January 6, 2016 by mopar71

[mopar71]

If these laws save the life of one child, everyone should be all in.

That would make a nice slogan, but it wouldn't take much imagination to come up with a dozen potential laws that would save many more lives of children. Let's start with a law mandating fences around every swimming pool in the country. Or a law against parents sleeping in bed with their infant next to them. If you don't support either of those, one could ask why you hate children so much?

[Publicus]

Supreme Court hasn't ever ruled the Second Amendment exempts anyone from the rule of laws.

SCOTUS hasn't ever ruled that legal owners of firearms have more or special constitutional rights than do the citizens who choose not to own firearms.

Second Amendment contains the same equality as other amendments and original Constitutional provisions. Which is that everyone in the society is subject to the rule of law.

Firearms are lethal. They are weapons. They need to be carefully regulated and the laws need to be made free of undue influence or pressures either way.

[mopar71]

Three quick points:

1) Fun (in the handgun context) is not a valid reason.

2) 33,000 gun deaths in a year is not a tiny, tiny fraction.

3) If there are no legal guns, it makes it much more difficult for criminals to acquire them.

Thank you for being polite though.

three counterpoints:

1) Fun certainly is a valid reason. Even people who hate handguns enjoy them at the shooting range. They really love shooting AK-47's, but the question was about handguns. Shooting guns is fun (and I am not nor ever have been a gun owner).

2) The tiny, tiny fraction I wrote about was crimes committed by legal gun owners, not deaths. If deaths are a concern, then people should be 100% against tobacco, alcohol and abortion. Compared to deaths from those three, that 33,000 number is tiny.

3) Drugs are illegal. Do you know anyone who has a hard time acquiring them? No, and they are acquiring them from criminals who obviously got them first and in bulk. A major difference with guns is that the criminals would use them themselves instead of selling to college kids or at the Full Moon Party.

Edited January 6, 2016 by mopar71

[thaibeachlovers]

Only a crazy person would deny that background checks and keeping guns out of the hands of insane people or criminals is a good thing.

However, with millions of weapons available off the grid, it will not prevent a single mass shooting in the future. Only stop and frisk on the streets will do that, and the Dems won't allow that in cities they control ergo Chicago madness.

[thaibeachlovers]

Obama is simply trying to build a legacy that he can point to in his later life and tell everybody what he accomplished.

What the Democrats, and the liberals on this forum, don't realize is that most Americans just simply don't think gun control is an issue.

But the squeeky wheel gets the grease.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Gallup: Only 2% Say 'Guns/Gun Control' Among Nation's Most Important Problems

By Susan Jones

January 4, 2016 | 5:53 AM EST

(CNSNews.com) - As President Obama prepares to announce new executive actions on gun control Monday, a newly released Gallup Poll shows that "guns/gun control" ranked near the bottom of Americans' most pressing concerns in 2015.

In fact, guns/gun control ranked 19th out of 23 top problems facing the country last year.

According to Gallup, only one percent of respondents mentioned guns/gun control as a concern for most of the months in 2015, although mentions spiked to 7 percent in October and December following mass shootings in those months that dominated the news. (The overall average for the year was 2 percent.)

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/gallup-only-2-americans-name-gunsgun-control-among-nations-most-important

CNS News is pure wingnut media. Referencing this nonsense is unbelievable. Of course American's are concerned about gun violence and overwhelming in favor of strict gun laws.

Please try to do better than this. Pointing to this crap to justify doing nothing...is just sad.

If these laws save the life of one child, everyone should be all in.

The wingnuts are the Republican base

If saving children's lives was a priority, then these should also be banned

Cars

electrical sockets

all domestic poisons

swimming pools, streams, rivers and the sea

sharp knives

stairs

They are not, because parents are expected to protect children from them. Often they do not. The same is true of guns.

If a child kills itself or someone else because it finds a loaded weapon, prosecute the responsible adult for manslaughter.

[LarryBird]

It's good that he cried. I think that way we can all tell that he is sincere on his feelings on the matter.

[Ace of Pop]

Just hope Obarmy dissarms all his bodyguards too. Then he can feel just the same as he wants his Fellow Americans to feel..... UNPROTECTED'

[Publicus]

Just hope Obarmy dissarms all his bodyguards too. Then he can feel just the same as he wants his Fellow Americans to feel..... UNPROTECTED'

Absurd, ridiculous, assinine [sic].

POTUS needs protection as such.

Four US presidents have been assassinated. One was assassinated during my lifetime.

Twenty unsuccessful assassination attempts have been made on incumbent POTUS or former POTUS.

All by gunshot.

Unsuccessful assassination attempts include against FDR, Harry S. Truman, Gerald R. Ford, Ronald Reagan. Some crackpot crashed a light single engine plane into the foundation area of the White House while Bill Clinton was POTUS.

Some crackpots have jumped the fence to enter the White House while Barack Obama has been POTUS. They were eager to enter the home of a black family.

Barack Obama has received many more death threats as a candidate and especially as POTUS.

The far out crackpot nutcake radical right has to cease its completely unreasonable and distorted thinking and statements in this matter of the security of POTUS. And in a lot of other nonsense besides.

With the exception of Lyndon Johnson, every president's life since John F. Kennedy has been threatened with assassination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_assassination_attempts_and_plots

Secret Service Exhausted by Massive Number of Death Threats Against President Obama

Being the President is a much harder job than I CAN B PRESIDENT Barbie and the movie First Kid make it seem. In fact, one of the occupational hazards of the job are near-constant death threats. And — SURPRISE — the same President who inspires billboards more racist than a cartoon version of Birth of a Nation starring the cast of Loony Tunes has also moved tens of thousands of people to make threats against the First Family's life. How many, you may ask? Try around 30 a day. Or about 40,000 since Barack Obama first began receiving death threats, back in 2007.

http://jezebel.com/5963372/massive-number-of-death-threats-against-president-obama-exhausts-the-secret-service

It is more than evident there is no shortage of crackpots.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Publicus

[arjunadawn]

Three quick points:

1) Fun (in the handgun context) is not a valid reason.

2) 33,000 gun deaths in a year is not a tiny, tiny fraction.

3) If there are no legal guns, it makes it much more difficult for criminals to acquire them.

Thank you for being polite though.

False argument. False construction. Biased presumption. Unlike other things a person does not have to have a valid point of view in order to speak freely. A person does not have to vote in order to feel secure in his home and person from government intrusion. A person does not have to testify against himself if a judge rules his fears do not merit silence. A person does not have to associate with only approved peoples. Likewise, a person does not need to justify any reason at all... none at all, to own a gun. It is a natural right, like having a thought, or blinking an eye- it is your choice alone. If a person does not require a justifiable reason to seek redress of grievances of believe in god he should likewise have no duty additional to that expressed in the Bill of Rights to Keep and Bear Arms. All arguments contrary are deceitful or willfully misleading- I don't care how many people die from guns. Gun deaths are not a valid pretense for abolishing the 2nd Amendment.

Many years ago, before the Left began "coming for the guns," the Right protested and lamented the Left would one day "come for the guns." Guns represent self reliance, community, tradition, yesterday, rednecks, work, familial, strength, rural, Natural Rights, and all of these are anathema to the Left. In fact, decades of this narrative are commonly understood by all in the US. The Right's fears were based on the presumption 1. These Rights are Natural and 2. all radical leftist movements (and fascist) always had a gun control platform as a central goal. The greatest infliction of Leftist/Fascist good apparently cannot come to pass unless guns are removed from populations. So, guns are always confiscated in history. Lo' and behold, the predictions of the Right are not a gradual- read Progressive- goal any longer, they are overt under Obama. Guns are not the Left's end, they are their means.

Edit: 'If there are no legal guns it makes it much more difficult for criminals to get them' [paraphrase] is a shocking admission of the failure of liberal thinking. You would enact laws that seek to penalize the innocent for crimes criminals have not yet done? America never had a system that offered group punishment, a sophomoric, army training concept now widely rejected because it is so flagrantly abusive. Penalize those who follow the law will always reward crime.

Edited January 6, 2016 by arjunadawn