Thai attitudes towards learning & education

[bluesofa]

Now please don't misunderstand me, this isn't having a dig at the locals, but more of a begrudging acceptance of the way things are, knowing that a real change in attitudes will be on a par with pushing string uphill.

Personally, I feel that as most Thais are very insular, with very little knowledge of how the world and other cultures around them work, so it doesn't seem surprising to me that their only experience is how things work in Thailand.

My stepson (aged eleven) has been given a science project to do as homework over the course of a week. It's irrelevant regarding the details, but what he was told to do was to print (using a computer) seven pages of text from a school book about a particular subject, complete with four/five illustrations. So he asked me to use my laptop to do this, not a problem. His mother gave him a hand to get him started, by typing two of the pages for him, telling him he had to type the remainder himself. He wasn't too keen, but give him his due, he got on with the task.

I asked my girlfriend what happened to families who didn't have access to a computer. She seemed to think it would be the families responsibility to sort it out for the child. She also said that in cases like this, it would be quite common for the parents to type all the text themselves, as well as scanning the (crappy) images off the page.

We had a discussion on what a child would learn from someone else doing the homework for them. My g/f accepted it wasn't correct, but said that the child would get a good mark for the piece of work.

She understands completely my point that the kids won't be learning anything about the subject in hand, or life generally, if the parents are doing the homework for them, in order to get a good mark.

As a joke, I added a page footer in Thai with the page number, my son's name and a line saying “mum & dad's homework” (which I will delete later, before it's printed!)

I just can't see what the education system thinks that kids can possibly learn from this sort of exercise?

[Craig krup]

It was the 19th century before Brits accepted that kids had to go to school (see what John Stuart Mill had to say on the subject), and the 1944 Education Act was needed to try to ensure that it was meaningful. We're spending nearly eight thousand pounds per place for secondary education in the UK, and the primary schools manage to turn out kids who can barely read and write. In most countries education is a de facto monopoly, and people think (wrongly) that so long as everyone, or nearly everyone, has the same pants experience then no harm has been done. Folk think that there are a set number of "good jobs", the education system isn't about real skills but about sorting everyone into these jobs, and so a pointless sytem is as good as any other.

Most people can't think at the level of abstraction needed to theorise education. That's not being arrogant - it's just a fact. I've got an Master of Education degree and half of the folk on the course couldn't really think.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Craig krup

[Scott]

I have seen KG students come back with their work book completed and colored very, very neatly. Obviously done by the parents, who can see nothing wrong with this.

[DavisH]

I have seen KG students come back with their work book completed and colored very, very neatly. Obviously done by the parents, who can see nothing wrong with this.

I teach m3-m4, and generally whatever homework I give is not graded - I'm not going to mark parent's / tutor's work. I'll even make videos of the solutions to the homework and post them on youtube. They can check themselves. If they choose not to do the homework, so be it. They are tested thereafter, and get the grade they get.

[bluesofa]

I have seen KG students come back with their work book completed and colored very, very neatly. Obviously done by the parents, who can see nothing wrong with this.

I teach m3-m4, and generally whatever homework I give is not graded - I'm not going to mark parent's / tutor's work. I'll even make videos of the solutions to the homework and post them on youtube. They can check themselves. If they choose not to do the homework, so be it. They are tested thereafter, and get the grade they get.

I really do admire your determination, will it make any difference though?

I was under the impression that as long as the students turn up, they get a pass, albeit low - there are no fails. Or have I completely misunderstood that?

[Snackbar]

I've got an Master of Education degree and half of the folk on the course couldn't really think.

Did your fellow post grad SS also get a MA Education?

Edited January 7, 2016 by Snackbar

[bbbbooboo]

Hmmmm.....this might be an oxymoron

[Suradit69]

Personally, I feel that as most Thais are very insular, with very little knowledge of how the world and other cultures around them work,

Are you talking about Thais or Americans ... or the populations of most countries outside their major urban areas ... or many of the farang who have settled in Thailand and still seem to be perpetually at a loss over the most basic things?

it would be quite common for the parents to type all the text themselves

Yes, parents or older siblings or friends doing homework for some kid only happens in Thailand. Thanks for the laugh.

[chilli42]

Schools were established during the industrial revolution to prepare kids to work in factories. As a side benefit it reduced child labour and increased adult employment. You don't need conceputulaiztion or abstract thinking skills to work in a factory. You just need to respond to authority, follow instructions and numb yourself to dull repetitive tasks. Seems your child's homework is a good match to train for these outcomes. Some countries have stepped beyond this (eg Finland) and have been successful in making learning the priority vs getting an education). It's a bit much to expect Thailand, an agricultural and industrial based economy, to see education in this light when countries like the US and UK have not stepped up to this.

[Snackbar]

Did the people on the course 'that couldn't think' graduate with a masters in Education?

[bazza40]

My understanding from a couple of Thai kids I've met ( wealthy families ) is that when they really want a good education they are sent overseas to the USA or Australia, to get tertiary qualifications in subjects such as engineering, computer science, or medicine. Similar to what Indians and Chinese do.

[Craig krup]

I disagree. M is stressed in masters not A. It is a masters. Not as you say an.

Take an hour to do some research.

Have a nice evening.

Take twenty seconds to do some research before you tell anyone anything.

http://www.dailywritingtips.com/using-a-and-an-before-words/

[ev1lchris]

I teach at one of the best high schools here in Thailand. Their education is mediocre and no one seems interested in self improvement especially through education.

They expect to come to an environment where nothing is demanded of them and they can be on their phone all day. That's why there's many lethargic Thai employees who just <deleted> around on their phone all day rather than provide a service.

[jamestip2013]

I read in the Bangkok Post a couple of years ago that there are thousands of adds for homework services every week in magazines , Newspapers and publications students read.. Apparently its widely done and accepted in Thai society to hand in forged homework and get good marks. This one of many reasons that Thailand has the highest drop out rate from Universities in Asia.. Yes when they get to Uni they actually have to know something !!!!! What a blow. !!!! tragic but true..

[Emster23]

Masters of Ed plus is what I earned long ago (how's that for avoiding "a" v "an"?). Most of my fellow students seemed to be sentient beings, although have friend who once told me in one of the testing classes prof was teaching how to turn fractions into decimals, so didn't go to next few sessions as he'd learned (or learnt, for Brit buds) that in grade school.

[1FinickyOne]

My kid gets on the bus at 6:30 am and even with me picking her up after special classes at 5:30 pm and getting home at 6 pm - where is the time for her to do some of these silly assignments of getting a color print out of something off the internet? I have just b/w in my printer and so, I have to go to get something printed out during daytime hours… silly assignments - - but as mentioned above - parents "helping" with homework is not specific to Thailand - she does the rest on her own -

[markkram]

as a teacher in thailand i never assigned homework...there was no point in wasting my time grading the performance of someone other than one of my students...all graded/assessed work was done on work completed in class..we used the British Levels...the thai administration always converted this into an absolutely wonderful percentage grade...but at the end of the day we the foreign teachers were true to ourselves, our education ethics and to our students

[CharlieH]

Bickering removed

[bluesofa]

as a teacher in thailand i never assigned homework...there was no point in wasting my time grading the performance of someone other than one of my students...all graded/assessed work was done on work completed in class..we used the British Levels...the thai administration always converted this into an absolutely wonderful percentage grade...but at the end of the day we the foreign teachers were true to ourselves, our education ethics and to our students

That seems like a sensible attitude, given the level of cheating that appears to go on.

There must be a lot of Thais who by cheating the system think they're going to get ahead. I think as a previous poster said, some of them will end up in cushy jobs doing nothing useful.

It's always been seen that a Thai degree isn't really worth much. I know some places I've worked, the applicant has been given various tasks to do, in order to see if they really are worthy of their degree certificate.

Going back to my OP and my son's project. He handed it to his teacher, who commented on the fact he had written (well typed) seven pages, whereas some kids handed in fifteen or more. He said that he had done the project himself (implying that he, rather than someone else) and the teacher accepted what he said.

Being cynical about it, I think if he'd said to his teacher that anyone could copy & paste pages from the net, that probably wouldn't go down very well.

[Snackbar]

Very odd situation at uni today. Had a quiz scheduled. SS had to listen to an audio book over the previous 2-3 weeks. And today answer 20 questions in teams of 4. Quite straight forward and a proven formula.

Today the predetermined questions were asked and displayed on the ohp.

Evidently a majority had forgotten about the scheduled quiz over the seasonal break.

Their solution was to hand write each of the 20 questions with zero knowledge of the answers.

A face saving exercise I think, for them. The majority scored zero/20

I say proven because a further group had the exact same task and displayed a thorough knowledge of the audio book.

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic, bickering, inflammatory, troll posts and replies have been removed.

This thread is in the Education section and criticism of grammar is not tolerated unless the thread is about a grammar question. Unsolicited comments about other members is generally considered trolling.

You have been warned and continuing to discuss anything other than the 'Thai attitudes towards learning & education' will get you a warning and a suspension.

If you wish to discuss other issues open a separate topic in the appropriate section of the forum.

[bluesofa]

My kid gets on the bus at 6:30 am and even with me picking her up after special classes at 5:30 pm and getting home at 6 pm - where is the time for her to do some of these silly assignments of getting a color print out of something off the internet? I have just b/w in my printer and so, I have to go to get something printed out during daytime hours… silly assignments - - but as mentioned above - parents "helping" with homework is not specific to Thailand - she does the rest on her own -

I agree with you on the difficultly in completing homework after a long day. I take my son to school at 6:30AM, pick him up at 5PM. Having said that, he gets on with the homework set, with not much time to play/relax. Sometimes he manages to finish homework during school time, so it's not absolutely everyday he has homework when he arrives home.

[Scott]

One of the difficulties for students is that during the school day, they have no free time to study or do homework.

The day is filled with 'fluff' classes -- there is Moral Education, Handwriting (calligraphy), Drama, Scouts and various other classes, depending on the school. In of themselves there is nothing wrong with these classes, but there is little focus on what it is the education system wants to achieve.

[bluesofa]

One of the difficulties for students is that during the school day, they have no free time to study or do homework.

The day is filled with 'fluff' classes -- there is Moral Education, Handwriting (calligraphy), Drama, Scouts and various other classes, depending on the school. In of themselves there is nothing wrong with these classes, but there is little focus on what it is the education system wants to achieve.

I agree with what you say, although I think that's going towards something else there. Does the education system really want the kids to learn anything useful, and think for themselves?

From the limited experience I've had through following my son's education, it seems very limited as to what they do teach, All the kids seem in awe of their teacher, and whatever the teachers tells them is take as gospel.

I've had a couple of instances when I've tried to challenge my lad's thinking on a particular subject, to be told something is fact because the teacher told them, not through logical reasoning (OK, I know he's only eleven, but I'm just making the point here.)

[Scott]

The lacking component is the ability to think critically and this doesn't happen because the problem-solving behavior behind critical thinking is missing. In most Western countries, children learn by experimentation and trial and error. I got a pretty good lesson in physics when I crawled out on a tree limb too far and it broke. I also learned a little about medicine when my arm was set.

In daily life, many children, especially in the Western world, are allowed to make mistakes that help them learn to deal with the physical world. Parents and caregivers try to guide them safely through these processes.

In Asia, it is different. A child is told and obedience to the dictates of a parent are supreme. They do not test the limits, they do not try a different approach. They do as they are told. This has a social and cultural upside, but it has a educational downside.

It's actually quite a testament to the durability of children here that they can walk, since they are seldom allowed to even crawl.

The best students are those that sit quietly and listen to what they are spoon fed. If the teacher doesn't tell you something, then you don't need to know it. That is the Asian way.

[Snackbar]

Ummh.

There are good and bad SS.

They seem to work together very well. Generally meet set deadlines. Mostly reliable and understand responsibility. And when instructed are punctual.

Some are very lazy. Quite happy to lie. Rely on others to think for them. Cannot think ahead or have a contingency plan.

A main issue here is classes or groups of SS are of mixed ability. The course content suits the average SS. For half the class the content is too easy and for the other half it's too difficult. The latter will always be behind. And instead of an E they get a D, from most instructors at my institution.

Despite perceptions 5-10% do get an E, in my 4 years experience.

English language degrees require a GPA of >2.00 to proceed to graduation. Any less they are encouraged to leave.

[Snackbar]

Student loans are only available while gpa is >2.00.

Current liability is B17 billion.