Thai Credit Card

[~G~]

I have been reading here several times that Credit Cards issued in Thailand are less safe than those issued in western countries. In case of fraud (for example, you buy something at Central Chitlom, the selling staff writes down your card details, then using it to buy online), it will be much more difficult to claim the amount back.

Is this true? Isn't the credit card refund policy for local Visa cards set by the international Visa company, for example? Or does the local legistlation more relevant here?

[GuestHouse]

I wouldn't touch a Thai credit card with a latex clad and disinfected barge pole.

The credit card protections are according to local contract under local law.

Years ago, US Credit cards offered far better protection than anywhere else, the EU in particular has caught up.

Thai banks have not.

In the UK (for example) you need only notify un authorized usage and sign a statement to that effect, for the credit card company to remove the unauthorized items from your card.

If they suspect you are committing fraud they will place items on hold and investigate further.

That is not the case in Thailand, where it is up to the card holder to prove fraud.

[alexth]

Besides, it's very difficult to obtain one...

[GuestHouse]

And wehn you do they give you a sh1tty credit level and often expect you to deposit cash to that limit as a guarantee their bank...

[sibeymai]

All you need to get a Thai credit card is a work permit and show last six months record of Thai bank account. They're practically giving them away.

As for safety, a good indicator is that whenever there is a transaction on my Australian issued credit card which originates in Thailand the Aussie bank places the transaction on hold, suspends my credit card and telephones me to verify the transaction. I don't think they would do this if there wasn't a lot of fraud in Thailand.

No fraud on my Thai card yet. Just keep an eye on the person handling the card and don't let them out of your sight. Mostly these days all they have to do is swipe the card then give it straight back to you. Not much chance to make a record of the number.

Edited October 17, 2006 by sibeymai

[ZZZ]

I have a Kasikorn debit card. One nifty security thing with this card is that they send you an SMS everytime the card is used, this will alert you if someone else is using your card number.

[~G~]

Thanks for the replies so far. I am not interested to perform purchases in local outlets using the card, the only purpose I am thinking of getting one is to set up a Paypal account (after they included Thailand as a place to withdraw funds to). I have been using 2checkout.com so far, but Paypal charges smaller comissions and seems has some other advantages. I want to minimize the risk of frozen Paypal account and such.

I have understood that Paypal has difficulties (or rather, causes difficulties...) when you withdraw funds to Thailand, if the credit card used to set the account is foreign. Or can you start a Paypal account with a debit card? Do bank here issue an international debit card at all?

Edited October 17, 2006 by ~G~

[bendix]

And wehn you do they give you a sh1tty credit level and often expect you to deposit cash to that limit as a guarantee their bank...

Speak for yourself. I got a Visa from HSBC in Thailand with a credit limit of 750k with no problems at all. I use it all the time and never have any issues. I also got an Amex Card within a week of applying; and I'm currently fielding marketing calls from Amex people trying to flog me their new platinum credit card.

No cash deposits, no hassle, no problem.

[samran]

I'm currently fielding marketing calls from Amex people trying to flog me their new platinum credit card.

I gave in. The royal orchid points give away was too tempting for me.

[naka]

I have a Kasikorn debit card. One nifty security thing with this card is that they send you an SMS everytime the card is used, this will alert you if someone else is using your card number.

Yes, A very useful option, detaila here Kasikorn Bank - K-mAlert

Available for Debit, Credit cards and any funds transfers.

Naka.

Edited October 18, 2006 by naka

[smilingjim]

Thanks for the replies so far. I am not interested to perform purchases in local outlets using the card, the only purpose I am thinking of getting one is to set up a Paypal account (after they included Thailand as a place to withdraw funds to). I have been using 2checkout.com so far, but Paypal charges smaller comissions and seems has some other advantages. I want to minimize the risk of frozen Paypal account and such.

I have understood that Paypal has difficulties (or rather, causes difficulties...) when you withdraw funds to Thailand, if the credit card used to set the account is foreign. Or can you start a Paypal account with a debit card? Do bank here issue an international debit card at all?

I opened a Thai Paypal account and use a Kasikorn Web card. Simple process. Open a Savings account with Kasikorn (if you don't have one already) and apply for the Web card. This only works for Internet transactions but is acccepted by Paypal. Has a card number and security number.

There are some threads about this - Paypal in thailand.

Cheers

[~G~]

I have an account with SCB, and was now told they issue international Debit cards. I Will try that way first.

[jackbox]

I have an account with SCB, and was now told they issue international Debit cards. I Will try that way first.

I opened a savings account with Siam Commercial Bank (SCB) just over two years ago. At the same time they immediately issued me a "Hip Card" international Mastercard Electronic debit card (the card is purple). The card is not personalized but linked to your account. I believe I paid a 100 baht issuance fee and every year they ding me a 200 baht fee for the card. The expiration date on the card is 2014 so I will be holding onto it for a while. I have used the card within Thailand, in other Asian countries and the USA to make purchases (must be swiped electronically -- no manual purchases but can be used online). You can also make atm withdrawals in Thailand and internationally if the atm machine is on the Mastercard Cirrus network. ATM withdrawals are limited to 200,000 baht a day so no worries about being limited in getting cash. Since Thai banks issue accounts regionally there are small fees (20 baht) when using the card at atms outside of Bangkok, including Pattaya (if your account is based in Pattaya then you will pay fees at atms in Bangkok). There is also a fee of 100 baht for making international withdrawals.

So far I have been lucky and have had no fraud on the account, even though I use it extensively throughout Thailand when I go to LOS. I think the fact it is electronic and cannot be imprinted (card is flat) makes it less likely to be a target of fraud. Good rule of thumb is to keep the card in your sight as much as possible. I have dined at many restaurants in Bangkok where they take the card away from the table to run it in the machine and never had a problem with double charges, fradulent charges, etc.

SCB is a great bank and I am very happy with their service. They even have free Swiss Coffee from a Saeco Super Automatic Espresso Machine in the Siam Paragon branch.

Edited October 18, 2006 by jackbox

[GuestHouse]

Speak for yourself. I got a Visa from HSBC in Thailand with a credit limit of 750k with no problems at all.

Bht750K is not a large credit limit by international credit card standards.

[bendix]

Perhaps not, but it's what I asked for and was granted and it's more than enough for personal use.

I use the unlimited Amex charge card for all overseas business travel expenses.

[~G~]

I have an account with SCB, and was now told they issue international Debit cards. I Will try that way first.

I opened a savings account with Siam Commercial Bank (SCB) just over two years ago. At the same time they immediately issued me a "Hip Card" international Mastercard Electronic debit card (the card is purple). The card is not personalized but linked to your account. I believe I paid a 100 baht issuance fee and every year they ding me a 200 baht fee for the card. The expiration date on the card is 2014 so I will be holding onto it for a while. I have used the card within Thailand, in other Asian countries and the USA to make purchases (must be swiped electronically -- no manual purchases but can be used online). You can also make atm withdrawals in Thailand and internationally if the atm machine is on the Mastercard Cirrus network. ATM withdrawals are limited to 200,000 baht a day so no worries about being limited in getting cash. Since Thai banks issue accounts regionally there are small fees (20 baht) when using the card at atms outside of Bangkok, including Pattaya (if your account is based in Pattaya then you will pay fees at atms in Bangkok). There is also a fee of 100 baht for making international withdrawals.

So far I have been lucky and have had no fraud on the account, even though I use it extensively throughout Thailand when I go to LOS. I think the fact it is electronic and cannot be imprinted (card is flat) makes it less likely to be a target of fraud. Good rule of thumb is to keep the card in your sight as much as possible. I have dined at many restaurants in Bangkok where they take the card away from the table to run it in the machine and never had a problem with double charges, fradulent charges, etc.

SCB is a great bank and I am very happy with their service. They even have free Swiss Coffee from a Saeco Super Automatic Espresso Machine in the Siam Paragon branch.

Thanks for the detailed post. Their call center told me today that their current fee to get the card is 300 baht. However, I rather have a card which is not linked to the account, to be able to limit the risk in case of fraud without managing an extra account just for this purpose.

[jackbox]

Perhaps not, but it's what I asked for and was granted and it's more than enough for personal use.

I use the unlimited Amex charge card for all overseas business travel expenses.

What are you talking about? B750,000 is over US$20,000.00. That is a quite substantial credit line.

[bendix]

I agree. There's no way I'd ever get near to using a credit facility of $20,000. Frankly, the thought of owing that much on a credit card is kinda frightening.

[steveromagnino]

I agree. There's no way I'd ever get near to using a credit facility of $20,000. Frankly, the thought of owing that much on a credit card is kinda frightening.

ahhhh we know your daily billing rate is probably higher than that...typical spot of sandbagging from a Kiwi :-)

750k limit is definitely reasonably high, of course it has to be compared to income. AFAIK in THailand the law is no limit on credit card exceeding 5X monthly salary, or some other restriction based on amount of cash in the bank or something. Amex can do an unlimited card because they are a charge card (although my friend with one has said that transactions over about $10k USD almost always get flagged and won't go through and are problematic; perhaps the no limit is more marketing than anything else? (friend uses his card to run through a few biz expenses).

In the scheme of things, as far as I can recall back in my banking career days (which is widely known as the 363 crowd; pay deposits 3%, charge mortgages at 6%, down at the yacht squadron for drinking GnTs and sailing by 3pm every day) we used to issue gold cards with a limit starting at around $10k NZD. Might have dropped a bit since then, but even a dodgy uni student would be given at least $1k. $10k NZD is about a limit of 300,000b minimum, and ranging upwards to 1m baht and above. Now, with gold cards in THailand, the equivalent card is often lower limit, since we know that the minimum income to get a gold card for some cards is as low as monthly salary 35,000b; that would mean a limit of 175,000b max around about. Quite a bit lower. And the threshold for platinum level is similar; SCB offers platinum cards (which is VISA's top tier) for only 50,000b min income.

I consult to one CC now, and Bendix's limit is certainly up there, but would not be the highest of the Thais or expats with the card I am involved with. There are some expats here on salaries upwards of 500,000k a month who also are running at 3X or 4X monthly salary. I don't look at spending on a person by person basis, I struggle to believe that most of the highest income earners actually carry over a balance; that is the domain usually of the low end people struggling from month to month. Coupled with the fact that people have more than 1 card, the amount of debt out there is scary.

Guesthouse, up to around 3-5 years ago it was somewhat difficult for expats to get CCs, now almost all the major decent CC companies are actively courting people with jobs, work permit and so on. Charge cards as well such as Amex are also currently doing telemarketing specifically to get people on their cards.

Regarding security, the latest batch of Thai CCs have chip security. AFAIK the system of protection is as Guesthouse outlines; that you have to prove you didn't pay for something in order to get out of it; however the bank will source the slip for you that showed you did pay as proof. Having disputed a charge in NZ (which has great consumer protection generally) I was in much the same position in practice, certainly makes it worthwhile to check statements? Porn websites was the biggest source of charges as I recall that were disputed....

And finally, some of the Thai CCs points schemes and extra discounts are simply outrageously good. Discounts on petrol alone will probably save me a few thousand baht alone this year, and even as a non big spender, I will probably get a free trip overseas within 18 months. With no annual fee for life it isn't a bad deal.

[GuestHouse]

^ Steve

Yes I agree the banks are courting expats who have legal working status.

My point is why would anyone, who has the option of an overseas Credit Card, go looking for a Thai CC?

I have posted here before on the huge hit a Thai colleague of mine took when her Thai CC was stolen (Despite reporting the theft, she was responsible for all illegal usage up and until the point where she had placed a signed report and police report at the bank - The theft over a holiday weekend, when the banks where closed, left her with a significant debt that she had to pay).

She now has a UK CC and enjoys the same protections I do with mine. ie. If the card goes missing - One phone call stops the card and all none (card carrier) authorized use is deemed the CC company's risk. + All the insurance that comes with cards, travel insurance, purchase protection etc.

As you point out, the level of Credit is relative to income. Yes some Thai CCs are offering 'higher' credit limits, but non come close to the credit limits offered overseas. As for being frightened by the size of the Credit limit, well not if you pay your CC and certainly not when you are protected under secure CC Laws governing illegal usage.

Credit limit asside it is the security and protection under the Credit Acts that discouraged me from going near a Thai Credit Card.

Perhaps as you have inside and outside experience on that you might give us a coparrison (keeping in mind that the practice in say the UK/US is respectively uniform under the Credit Acts, in Thailand there is a huge variation between banks - all at the user risk).

[Soju]

My point is why would anyone, who has the option of an overseas Credit Card, go looking for a Thai CC?

I for one would like to have a Thai credit card, but do not have a work visa, so it's unlikely I'll be succesful in obtaining one. I work outside of Thailand, but spend a lot of my time in Thailand and make a lot of purchases in Thailand. I'd like the flexibility of paying for many of those purchases with a Thai card for which I can pay my balance in Thai Baht and not need to pay any surcharges for converting my purchases into Dollars, Pounds, or whatever my foreign credit card is based on. As it is now, I just bring a lot of cash with me, which also runs a similar risk of being stolen as would a credit card. Would particularly like to get the THAI American Express card which gives you 1 mile in Thai Airway's mileage program for every 25 baht spent, plus various other perks for flying with THAI. I've never lost nor had a credit card stolen in my life, and certainly it could happen to anyone, but I'm not particularly worried about that. American Express Thailand doesn't have their rules & regs posted to their website, but they do mention that customers are protected against online fraud. I'd guess their policies regarding stolen/lost cards would also be better than the average Thai credit card.

I only wish the credit card companies would relax their policies even further so that people such as me who actually have a residence in Thailand but don't work in Thailand could get a card.

[~G~]

I for one would like to have a Thai credit card, but do not have a work visa, so it's unlikely I'll be succesful in obtaining one. I work outside of Thailand, but spend a lot of my time in Thailand and make a lot of purchases in Thailand. I'd like the flexibility of paying for many of those purchases with a Thai card for which I can pay my balance in Thai Baht and not need to pay any surcharges for converting my purchases into Dollars, Pounds, or whatever my foreign credit card is based on. As it is now, I just bring a lot of cash with me, which also runs a similar risk of being stolen as would a credit card.

What you say is that you need a Thai Bank account, not a Thai credit card. If you had a Thai bank account, you could transfer money once and use local ATM card whenever neccessary.

[Soju]

What you say is that you need a Thai Bank account, not a Thai credit card. If you had a Thai bank account, you could transfer money once and use local ATM card whenever neccessary.

No, I already have several Thai Bank accounts and several Thai ATM cards and plenty of money in those accounts. I want a Thai credit card that I can use to make purchases with. For example, I make lots of plane reservations for Thai domestic flights via the internet when I'm outside of Thailand, or make reservations for international travel from Thailand while outside of Thailand. I need to use a credit card in order to make these purchases. Right now, I pay a service charge everytime I make these purchases. Other times I can't even make the purchase as sometimes foreign credit cards are not even accepted. Other examples, if I'm out someplace and want to buy something, but don't have enough cash, I don't want to hunt for an ATM just to withdraw cash, I want to use my credit card to make the purchase, and I don't want a debit card either. I also prefer a credit card that can give me mileage points or some other benefit for my purchases, which cash cannot do. I'll still use my ATM and cash many times if there's a cash discount, but many of my purchases are the same price whether cash or credit card and I prefer to use my credit card in those cases.

[~G~]

I make lots of plane reservations for Thai domestic flights via the internet when I'm outside of Thailand

I see you point here, but the sums for domestic flights are really not that large and the comissions will be small respectively.

or make reservations for international travel from Thailand while outside of Thailand.

Those are not quoted in baht. They are quoted in USD and converted to baht. You actually save the loss that results from the conversion if you use a foreign credit card.

[samran]

American Express Thailand doesn't have their rules & regs posted to their website, but they do mention that customers are protected against online fraud. I'd guess their policies regarding stolen/lost cards would also be better than the average Thai credit card

My Royal Orchid-AMEX has a number which you can call to immediately suspend the card. I'd assume that they'd freeze the card on the request of the owner straight away rather than waiting for a police report.

[GuestHouse]

^

I wouldn't assume anything, I would go check and find out.

Like for example.

If your card is stolen and used by the thief for 12.. 24... 48 hours before you notice it missing and report the loss - Who picks up the tab on the illegal useage?

I have three UK credit cards, they are all explicit on this point.

My responsibility for ANY unauthorized use is 0%.

[bendix]

I misplaced my Thai-issued HSBC credit card a few months ago. By the time I'd reported it (around 2 hours after I suspect i lost it) the bank informed me that it had been used once. I told them i didnt make the purchase and they immediately revoked the charge.

I can't comment on the Thai Banks, but that experience gave me confidence re HSBC.

What's more, I got a replacement card within 3 days.

[Soju]

I make lots of plane reservations for Thai domestic flights via the internet when I'm outside of Thailand

I see you point here, but the sums for domestic flights are really not that large and the comissions will be small respectively.

or make reservations for international travel from Thailand while outside of Thailand.

Those are not quoted in baht. They are quoted in USD and converted to baht. You actually save the loss that results from the conversion if you use a foreign credit card.

When you fly domestically as much as I do, and each ticket is x2 as my wife travels with me domestically, or sometimes x3 if her sister or another family member comes along, it adds up quickly. Spent over 20,000 Baht last month on domestic tickets.

For international tickets, I don't think you're correct, at least not for all airlines. Everytime I've flown Thai airlines on an international flight originating in BKK, the ticket was charged to my credit card in Thai Baht, not USD. I think several years ago you would have been correct as all airlines at that time seemed to use USD fares for their flights. Maybe some still do, but almost all the airlines I fly no longer have this practice. When I check an online price with THAI, the price doesn't fluctuate from day-to-day as the THB-USD rate varies. It remains fixed. If I was flying on THAI from the US into Thailand, then my ticket would be based on a USD fare. When I fly from Korea to Thailand, my tickets are always KRW based fares. It only makes sense local people don't want to be quoted a price in USD or another currency they're not familiar with. They want to be quoted in their local currency, and don't want that price to fluctuate from day-to-day, or hour-by-hour as the currency market fluctuates. They want to be quoted a price in their local currency and when they go to pay for their ticket, they expect to pay that exact price.

[MisterRay22]

A bit off topic but ... Does anyone know how getting a Thai credit card affects your credit rating back home (in my case, the US)? And, conversely, how does your credit rating back home affect your chances at getting a Thai credit card? In other words, do the Thai banks base your credit worthiness solely on your life here in Thailand?

I've checked out the expat requirements for a few banks here and typically they require:

1) Passport AND work permit

2) Letter from employer verifying income (minimums range from 600,000 to 1,000,000 Baht/year)

3) Bank statements showing balances for the the past 3 months

None ask for social security #, which I believe is what ties you to your credit report in the U.S.

I am able to provide all of the above documents, my salary is 960,000 B/yr, and I've been working here for a year and a half. HOWEVER, back in the U.S. I ran across some credit problems and am unable to qualify for credit cards there -- only VISA/MC branded debit cards connected to my US checking accounts.

Any thoughts as to what my chances are of getting a CC here?

[Soju]

A bit off topic but ... Does anyone know how getting a Thai credit card affects your credit rating back home (in my case, the US)? And, conversely, how does your credit rating back home affect your chances at getting a Thai credit card? In other words, do the Thai banks base your credit worthiness solely on your life here in Thailand?

I've checked out the expat requirements for a few banks here and typically they require:

1) Passport AND work permit

2) Letter from employer verifying income (minimums range from 600,000 to 1,000,000 Baht/year)

3) Bank statements showing balances for the the past 3 months

None ask for social security #, which I believe is what ties you to your credit report in the U.S.

I am able to provide all of the above documents, my salary is 960,000 B/yr, and I've been working here for a year and a half. HOWEVER, back in the U.S. I ran across some credit problems and am unable to qualify for credit cards there -- only VISA/MC branded debit cards connected to my US checking accounts.

Any thoughts as to what my chances are of getting a CC here?

My experience is limited to applying for credit cards in other countries, not Thailand. But they do not check your credit report in your home country. They are not setup for doing that. Now if you were applying for a Citibank card or an American Express card, they might check if you previously had one of their cards and if you had any problems in paying off those cards. In fact, Thailand American Express asks on their application if you've ever had an American Express card before. Though being you don't supply your SS number, don't see how they can verify for certain if you're the same person, afterall some people in the world are bound to have the same name and same birthday.